Fair_Weather_Flyer

On an American website there has recently been a suggestion that the FAA CPL and ATP to JAA FATPL/ATPL conversion rules are to be relaxed later this year. Does anyone have any idea what is under consideration?

RVR800

The JAA is being replaced by a new organisation

The European parliament have realised they are signed up members of the Chicago Convention.

They want to reduce administative burden (oxymoron)

Watch this space...........

BillieBob

Not exactly. The European Aviation Safety Agency represents another level of bureaucracy in addition to the JAA. It is to be hoped that it will adopt JARs as its standards or we shall all have to go through another disastrous changeover to a wholly new set of requirements. EASA cannot replace the JAA since there are a number of JAA member states that are not members of the EU. Whatever agreement is reached between the JAA and FAA will have no validity and will have to be renegotiated with EASA when it takes responsibility for licensing. Given the rumour that the French delegate to the latest JAA/FAA meeting was arrested on arrival in PHI and sent home on the next flight, agreement between a French dominated EASA and the FAA is not going to be easy!

EASA has recently published a consultative paper and proposed 'Essential Requirements for Pilot Proficiency', which, if nothing else, prove that the people responsible for implementing EU licensing rules do not have the first idea of what pilot licensing is all about.

Oh, and the EU, not (yet) being a Sovereign State, is not a signatory to the Chicago Convention.

fly2fly

The conversion process between JAA & FAA should be released for the end of the year.

The procedure draft is available
HERE

eaglejet

fly your link doesn't work....

paramac146

The link works just fine and I went straight to it. You will need a PDF reader such as Acrobat Reader .
OK this is all very interesting and will probably come into force just as I finish all the JAA exams

trainer too 2

That opens the road to more US training!

Mascalzone78

I do not understand if once I will get an FAA type rating it will be valid in EU.
This will change the world of European aviation if is true

eaglejet

Somebody can send me the pdf file in PM, still can't manage to open the link

Thanks a lot

paramac146

Eagljet
The proposal is to grant the holders of an FAA ATP who have 1500hrs on Multi-Pilot aircraft, since the issue of the said FAA ATP,a JAA Licence.

You will have to sit one exam of 85 questions covering a range of subjects and the exam duration will be two hrs.

I have contacted the CAA regarding this and am waiting for the reply. Until they tell me otherwise in writing I am going to continue with the JAA exams...only 5 to go....

The Hedge

"paramac146"

Keep us posted when you get a reply.

"Billie Bob",

What are your thoughts on this draft.

BritishGuy

It's not the hours requirement thats the hard bit 500hrs?? what only 250 more than before. Thats easily done. The exams (i mean 14 of them - red tape/protectionism blah, blah, blah) thats what needs to be reduced. And as soon as thats done then hey, all the more better (and happier)......Another 250hrs ontop of the 250hrs needed for an FAA commercial will probably cost you less then all the CAA bull$hit you need to pay for right now.

Martin1234

The point is that the possibility to convert shouldn't compete with JAR schools which is one of the reasons why they have those hour requirements. You will probably be able to convert as before but note that the new conversion proposal states type rating skill test (in accordance with 1.240) instead of a practical test as of today.

Note that you still need to do the JAR groundschool for an IR and if you want ATPL theoretical knowledge and don't have an FAA ATP with 1500 multi pilot hours... you still need to do the 14 exams! At least that's my interpretation..

BillieBob

The proposed conditions for conversion of FAA licences and ratings will clearly mean different things to different people, according to their individual qualification and experience and their future intentions. Assuming that we are talking about someone who intends to convert a FAA CPL(A) with the intention of proceeding, eventually, to a JAA ATPL(A) by way of the right hand seat of a multi-pilot aeroplane. In this case, I can't see that the proposal will make a great deal of difference.

----------
The current requirements for the holder of a FAA CPL(A) to be issued with a JAA CPL(A) by the UK CAA are:

Hold a JAA Class 1 medical certificate
Undergo theoretical knowledge training at the discretion of a Head of Training and pass the JAA theoretical knowledge examinations at CPL(A) level.
Undertake flying training at the discretion of a Head of Training and pass the CPL Skill Test.
Qualify for the issue of a FRTOL

Further, if a multi-pilot type rating is required:

Hold a valid JAA IR(A)
Complete MCC training
Complete the full 650 hours theoretical knowledge training and pass all 14 ATPL(A) examinations

----------
The proposed requirements will be:

Hold a JAA Class 1 medical certificate
Undergo (undefined) training and pass the four composite examination papers
Pass the CPL Skill Test
Qualify for the issue of a FRTOL

Further, if a multi-pilot type rating is required:

Hold a valid JAA IR(A)
Complete MCC training
Complete the full 650 hours theoretical knowledge training and pass all 14 ATPL(A) examinations
----------
The only advantage that I can see to the proposal is that there is no minimum training requirement laid down prior to taking the theoretical knowledge examination and Skill test. On the other hand, a minimum of 500hrs PIC as the holder of a FAA CPL(A) will be required to qualify for conversion. In both cases the full ATPL(A) theoretical knowledge examinations will have to be passed prior to training for a MPA type rating.

redsnail

I agree with Billie Bob on this one. For a laugh, download the pdf from the JAAsite. You want JAR-FCL 1.
Relevant pages, page 84 (JAR-FCL 1.250 (4)) and page 123. (JAR-FCL 1.285)
It would seem if you have 1500 hours in MPA's then the conversion is a bit easier. Need only do 1 composite exam but I am not sure how the UK CAA will apply the JAR MPA compliance when sitting the LST.

(I don't work for the UK CAA, I just wade through PDF's)

divorcingjack

Hi there,

Does anyone know if his new proposal will apply to ICAO conversions as well ? I am just about to embark on a canadian CPL/IR and was hoping to convert next year - is this going to affect my plans ?

Sorry for my ignorance, but I am a little concerned !

Thanks, dj

Speedbird744

The problem is the 250hours that you must have prior to gaining an FAA CPL isn't 250hours PIC. You might end up with say 120 hours PIC in total, so thats another 380 to build!
And the definition of PIC in the USA is different to here.

God please someone tell me none of this is going to happen!

Charley

For those who are doing their flight training with a view to obtaining a JAA frozen ATPL by converting an FAA CPL, the PIC requirements are far too onerous to be dismissed as lightly as has been suggested.

It is, as has been said, 500 hrs of P1 post CPL issue. So, any previous P1 hours are not applicable. Period. End of chat.

This means, at the very least, 500 hrs of hour building. That's a lot of hour-building! 500 hours spent burning holes in the sky (and wallet) in a C152 is a lot of time to develop dodgy habits and get mind-numbingly bored.

In reality it will probably mean that people wanting to go down the FAA-to-JAA conversion route will probably have to be FI's for some length of time. And FAA FI's at that. I suspect that this is why the 'post-CPL' comment is in there, the JAA want you to have 500 hours of 'CPL-type' experience.

I'd be interested to know whether this is going to replace the existing arrangements or act in parallel with them. For example, get the 500hrs PIC if you want to sit the reduced JAR exams OR sit all the JAA ATPL's if you want to convert sooner. Sadly, I suspect the former is the case. This could leave a few of us in the poop, especially those who have already committed to doing their FAA ratings.

This needs watching with interest. As somebody else said, this smacks to me of JAA protectionism again to some extent. Meh, perhaps I'm being unfair, but some of us remember a few years ago when they tried to stop any JAA training occuring outside of JAA member states...

captwawa

what about the Conversion From Australian ATPL to JAR ATPL

Any links for that one ??

BillieBob

divorcingjack/captwawa - These proposals (and they are still only proposals) are the result of discussions between the JAA and FAA and relate only to conversion of an FAA licence. The JAA are not in discussion with any other national aviation authority concerning conversion criteria.

Charley - You may notice that the UK is the only JAA state that approves FTOs outside the JAA. This is solely because UK national law does not allow the CAA to refuse such approvals. However, when EASA takes over responsibility for licensing in a couple of years, the majority of EU member states (which are vehemently opposed to 'overseas' training) will be able, should they choose, to impose their view with the force of EU law. The battle is not yet over.