Depiction of BAC-111 window rupture...
Thread Starter
Depiction of BAC-111 window rupture...
Tonight, the "National Geographic Channel" (US) had an excellent feature about the very close call for the Captain (Lancaster?)! Saw just a bit, and I missed the superb FO's name (does he read Pprune?). What fantastic control of the situation, while trying to understand the radio and requesting a heading to the nearest suitable airport, never mind the roar through the missing windshield, with one or both Flight Attendants doing their best to hold on to the poor guy's legs! 
For some reason, the correct bolts were designed on the -111 to hold the windshield on from the outside, in contradiction of standard practice elsewhere, according to the program. On the incident aircraft, some under-sized bolts had apparently been installed.
For some reason, the correct bolts were designed on the -111 to hold the windshield on from the outside, in contradiction of standard practice elsewhere, according to the program. On the incident aircraft, some under-sized bolts had apparently been installed.
Psychophysiological entity
It was an airplane that was rather susceptible to windshield failure, and they cost as much as a house in those days
One night over Zagreb my mate had the windshield heat off and the diff down before I had flicked the bits of hot glass off my nether regions. Later, when I complimented him on his smooth performance, he said that he had, "had three that month". And that was with no bogus bolts presumably.
I did read the report a good while ago and I have always wondered weather the emergency decent was carried out at high speed or low speed...we were given the option of using either. I may have missed it as the report was fairly lengthy.
One night over Zagreb my mate had the windshield heat off and the diff down before I had flicked the bits of hot glass off my nether regions. Later, when I complimented him on his smooth performance, he said that he had, "had three that month". And that was with no bogus bolts presumably.
I did read the report a good while ago and I have always wondered weather the emergency decent was carried out at high speed or low speed...we were given the option of using either. I may have missed it as the report was fairly lengthy.
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
Posts: 6,207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
bolts !
Two sizes of bolts are used in the 1-11 window ( 8-32 and 6-32 ) if I remember corectly and these bolts are quite similar if looked at under normal conditions.
The guy who installed the window was working outside at night and the only ilumination was probably his flashlight.
The bolts that were issued to him ( at BHX ) came from the engineering stores at LHR and had the correct paperwork with them.
The whole of the engineering workforce at LHR was on strike at the time over a 12 hour shift issue so the bolts were issued by members of management working in the stores.
The managenent stance to the 12 hour shift issue did an about face the day after the inccident and the LHR strike was resolved at once.
The CAA took no action aganst the engineer who fitted the window and BA moved him to a managenent position.
I will leave you to speculate how the wrong size bolts got into the window.
The guy who installed the window was working outside at night and the only ilumination was probably his flashlight.
The bolts that were issued to him ( at BHX ) came from the engineering stores at LHR and had the correct paperwork with them.
The whole of the engineering workforce at LHR was on strike at the time over a 12 hour shift issue so the bolts were issued by members of management working in the stores.
The managenent stance to the 12 hour shift issue did an about face the day after the inccident and the LHR strike was resolved at once.
The CAA took no action aganst the engineer who fitted the window and BA moved him to a managenent position.
I will leave you to speculate how the wrong size bolts got into the window.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Euroland
Posts: 959
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was on the ground at SOU the day this happened. Our departure was cancelled due the emergency, and I will never forget the sight of the 1-11 with all the blood down the side.
Curiously, the report makes no mention of the fact that the captain apparently wasn't wearing his shoulder harnesses, and his lower harness must have been pretty loose to have allowed him to move the way he did.
Curiously, the report makes no mention of the fact that the captain apparently wasn't wearing his shoulder harnesses, and his lower harness must have been pretty loose to have allowed him to move the way he did.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The Twilight Zone near 30W
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Curiously, the report makes no mention of the fact that the captain apparently wasn't wearing his shoulder harnesses, and his lower harness must have been pretty loose to have allowed him to move the way he did.
Jet Blast Rat
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Sarfend-on-Sea
Age: 50
Posts: 2,081
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hehehe, I was in that programme. They filmed it at Bournemouth Airport, mostly at the museum where they have a BAC 1-11 (they were built here). The extras did not turn up one day, and I was not flying due to the miserable weather, so when they came looking for bodies I volunteered. I was on the investigating panel for the AAIB, didn't say anything but looked shocked a few times and wrote things on a piece of paper.
The windscreen had previously been fitted with bolts one size too small, and when they came to refit the new bolts were selected by eye, comparing with the old, and were in fact even smaller. The engineer was advised in the stores that he was looking for the wrong size of bolts, but insisted he was right. He then did not match by sizer number, at least that is how it was depicted fliming the board.
The windscreen had previously been fitted with bolts one size too small, and when they came to refit the new bolts were selected by eye, comparing with the old, and were in fact even smaller. The engineer was advised in the stores that he was looking for the wrong size of bolts, but insisted he was right. He then did not match by sizer number, at least that is how it was depicted fliming the board.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Surrey
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The correct bolts should have been 10-32, but the replacement bolts fitted were 8-32.
From the report linked to above:
“The bolts engage with 10 UNF Kaylock floating anchor nuts mounted on the inside of the windscreen frame. The replacement windscreen had been installed with 84 bolts (A211-8C) whose diameters were approximately 0.026 of an inch below the diameters of the specified bolts but of the same thread pitch, and six bolts (A211-7D) which were of the correct diameter, but 0.1 of an inch too short.”
The incorrect bolts were “only” 0.26 of an inch smaller diameter than the correct bolts. Probably if the appropriate engineer were doing the task he would have noticed the difference, on the other hand a manager, not doing his usual job but trying to get an aircraft ready for service didn’t.
Incidentally, it is common for windscreen mounting bolts to be fitted from outside the aircraft, but usually the screen is positioned in the aperture from the inside the cockpit against the frame. The bolts go through the frame then through the screen and are secured by the locking nuts. This means that cabin pressure will keep the screen firmly in place. The bolts are obviously then not so critical.
From the report linked to above:
“The bolts engage with 10 UNF Kaylock floating anchor nuts mounted on the inside of the windscreen frame. The replacement windscreen had been installed with 84 bolts (A211-8C) whose diameters were approximately 0.026 of an inch below the diameters of the specified bolts but of the same thread pitch, and six bolts (A211-7D) which were of the correct diameter, but 0.1 of an inch too short.”
The incorrect bolts were “only” 0.26 of an inch smaller diameter than the correct bolts. Probably if the appropriate engineer were doing the task he would have noticed the difference, on the other hand a manager, not doing his usual job but trying to get an aircraft ready for service didn’t.
Incidentally, it is common for windscreen mounting bolts to be fitted from outside the aircraft, but usually the screen is positioned in the aperture from the inside the cockpit against the frame. The bolts go through the frame then through the screen and are secured by the locking nuts. This means that cabin pressure will keep the screen firmly in place. The bolts are obviously then not so critical.
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cardiff, UK
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not a PPL or invloved with the industry (just an interested observer), but lived in Southampton at the time of this incident. The street I live in is directly in line with the approach to EGHI when arriving from the Southampton side (on the big hill that gets in the way of the approach in fact!); I just happened to be wondering along doing my paper round as the 1-11 made its approach (I think an AirUK RJ70 normally left at that time, so I was a bit perplexed, especially as I knew BAC 1-11s didn't have much room for error on the short runway). It was clear that there was something up and it's certainly a sight that will remain etched in my memory. I'm glad everything turned out pretty well considering.
PS...my mum still lives in the street; you may see her run out of the house waving her fist if you happen to make a lowish approach or departure in a BAe 146 (which you may or may not wish to take as an invitation to do on purpose ;-) ).
Cheers!
Daniel
PS...my mum still lives in the street; you may see her run out of the house waving her fist if you happen to make a lowish approach or departure in a BAe 146 (which you may or may not wish to take as an invitation to do on purpose ;-) ).
Cheers!
Daniel
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Africa
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Without being critical of the crew in any way, whom I think did a great job of getting the thing down in one piece. One has to ask this question?
If the lap strap was loose enough to allow the extraction of the Captain from his seat during decompression, It would have been loose enough not to restrain him in cruise, during e.g., turbulence, which in my opinion is one of the main considerations for being strapped in at all times while in the seat. IMHO the lap strap can be secure yet comfortable, to provide adequate protection.
If the lap strap was loose enough to allow the extraction of the Captain from his seat during decompression, It would have been loose enough not to restrain him in cruise, during e.g., turbulence, which in my opinion is one of the main considerations for being strapped in at all times while in the seat. IMHO the lap strap can be secure yet comfortable, to provide adequate protection.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Euroland
Posts: 959
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Human Factor
Yes, I remove mine too (but usually at TOC), but think about it - how loose must your other straps be for you to move the way the unfortunate BA skipper did? I can't see how you could do it without breaking both your legs, if your straps were anything like "comfy" tight.
Yes, I remove mine too (but usually at TOC), but think about it - how loose must your other straps be for you to move the way the unfortunate BA skipper did? I can't see how you could do it without breaking both your legs, if your straps were anything like "comfy" tight.
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Lake Wylie South Carolina USA
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I saw the programme too and was very impressed with its accuracy. From the usual sensationalist re-creations that American tv comes up with, this programme (and the others in the series ) are very well produced and a refreshing change. They even had the a/c registration correct (Romeo Tango) on the computer graphic simulations. The captain however, was depicted on the top of the a/c fully clothed. In fact he was stark bollock naked but I guess you can't show that on US Puritan tv in light of Janet Jackson's recent "wardrobe malfunction".
The engineer was not promoted to management as he already was a manager. He was de-moted to become a regular engineer.
I believe the pilots lobbied for him to be kept on with BA as they knew him to be an extremely experienced, conscientious and hard working person and was working on his own due to economic restrictions at BHX. I was aircrew at BHX for fifteen years and knew all the participants well. The wrong bolts had been fitted 4 years earlier by British Caledonian and BA inherited the a/c from them. B Cal had fitted bolts of the correct diameter but slightly shorter than specified.
The engineer was not promoted to management as he already was a manager. He was de-moted to become a regular engineer.
I believe the pilots lobbied for him to be kept on with BA as they knew him to be an extremely experienced, conscientious and hard working person and was working on his own due to economic restrictions at BHX. I was aircrew at BHX for fifteen years and knew all the participants well. The wrong bolts had been fitted 4 years earlier by British Caledonian and BA inherited the a/c from them. B Cal had fitted bolts of the correct diameter but slightly shorter than specified.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Flew the 1-11 for Channel, Courtline, Danair and Monarch. Had
a nasty experience with a 500 series that Courtline had down in the Caribbean one winter in 1974. When we stopped in Gander on the way back to Luton during the winter, the windscreen on the F/o side went bang and cracked all over. The F/o disappeared under the instrument panel. We went back into Gander where we spent 3 dreary days while we waited for another windscreen. Had it fixed and took off again and then the other windscreen went bang. The Captain was 'Hazel' Hazedene who used to be chief test pilot for Handley Page. Later that summer Courtline went bust. There is a 30 year reunion this October in Harpenden.
a nasty experience with a 500 series that Courtline had down in the Caribbean one winter in 1974. When we stopped in Gander on the way back to Luton during the winter, the windscreen on the F/o side went bang and cracked all over. The F/o disappeared under the instrument panel. We went back into Gander where we spent 3 dreary days while we waited for another windscreen. Had it fixed and took off again and then the other windscreen went bang. The Captain was 'Hazel' Hazedene who used to be chief test pilot for Handley Page. Later that summer Courtline went bust. There is a 30 year reunion this October in Harpenden.
short flights long nights
Thread Drift.. I know, but who and what was Courtline?
Guest
Posts: n/a
Courtline operated two of the first UK registered Tristars and a fleet of 14 BAC 1-11's for the IT market.
The aircraft were all painted in violent colours, pink, purple, orange and green. The oil crisis in 1974 and the collapse of Clarkson's holidays caused their demise.
The aircraft were all painted in violent colours, pink, purple, orange and green. The oil crisis in 1974 and the collapse of Clarkson's holidays caused their demise.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Greystation
Posts: 1,086
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On a side note, it was this event which sparked ATC Emergency Contingency Training (ECT), now known as TRUCE (TRaining for Unusual CircumstancEs) for which we now occasionally have Pilots attend to drum up some realistic emergency situations and then watch us sweat!! TRUCE is now a mandatory event every year where we get to try out what to do if the ultimate happens, not every day you get complete failures, best try it out somewhere!!!
5mb
5mb