Bill O'Average

Just thought Id start a thread praising the Green Machine.

We are great.

Reason - Comp educated stick contollers, real people, no hang ups and def no pretentions to being anything other than all round good eggs.

Roger the cabin boy

Some Army pilots probably are great. Bill O'Average is a tool.

BEagle

The AAC captain whose flexible approach to rules and regulations led to an enjoyable trip from Valley to Wildenrath in a Beaver in 1975 was certainly a great character. Purpose of the trip? To fly wedding presents plus a couple of guests back to Wildenrath. Later we had another jolly down to Neubiberg for a night stop in Munich. Purpose of the trip? To take back the empties plus a large wooden barrel left over from the previous year's unit Oktoberfest!

Somehow I can't see the light blue having quite the same approach to life!

It was the only flying I got on that holding posting; I was attached to 20 Sqn (bona jets in those days) but their T-bird was tits-up for the whole time I was there!

RoD Flow

Just cos sum of us got commissions, don't mean we went to dem posh skools.

Fly Navy

ZH875

AAC Pilots - 95% Really Good Eggs - 4% Good Eggs - 1% To$$ers

Navy - not met enough to judge, but seemed nice enough blokes

RAF 1% Really Good Eggs - 4% Good Eggs - 95% To$$ers.

Time for the AAC to teach the RAF some manners.

The Ugly Fend Off

Is that before or after the crabs teach you how to operate your shiny new radar equipped airborne tanks?!

Dunhovrin

**** me girls, have you ****s got nothing better to do than resurect this pointless old chestnut?

althenick

While were on the subject of AAC pilots. I saw on the www (can't remember where - could have been the Torygraph) that they were planning to introduce non-comm aircrew to the RAF and FAA Helicopter communities. has anyone heard anything???

If indeed it is true I just want you all to know that it was me that suggested it in a snottagram which I wrote to Bundeswher Meister Hoon on the subject of the retirment of Sea Harrier. Needless to say it turned int a bit of a rant in the end but iI was angry.

Wholigan

ZH875 --- precisely what standard of manners do you intend to teach the crabs, when your post is in all ways an offensive insult and a major generalisation?????

KENNYR

Here we go again...........on the same old roundabout........mine's bigger than yours, nah nah nah nah nah nah.

I find it very difficult to understand why an RAF Helicopter Pilot feels that he/she is superior to an Army NCO Pilot, just because he/she is commissioned. Being commissioned has absolutely no bearing on the ability of anyone to fly a helicopter. Rank has absolutely nothing to do with the ability to understand systems, what's the difference between an Army Corporal with a university degree and an RAF Officer with a university degree??...nothing!

I would be very interested to hear all the arguments that the pretentious prats in blue would like to put forward to justify their opinions.

My "rant" is not directed at the majority of RAF pilots who do an excellent job, and have no illusions of grandure.

brandnew

I think the basis of the problem is that in the RAF aircrew are seen as being at the top of the tree. Moreover, fast jet aircrew are (rightly) held in high regard. The elite.

However, in the army the Air Corps is not widely seen as the top of the tree at all. I'm saying this as a serving officer in the AAC. The elite of the army, from the army's point of view, are units such as the Paras. Army pilots, on the whole, admit this and are not too arrogant about their status. I believe that in the Navy Warfaries do quite well career / status wise as well.

Moreover, RAF rotary pilots, with a few notable exceptions are so amazingly arrogant that its painful to watch sometimes. RAF / Navy fast jet pilots are not.

Question: are RAF rotary pilots bitter / arrogant because they are not in fast jets? (chopped / restreamed / downstreamed etc)

ZH875

The Ugly Fend Off and Wholigan, as a crab, I do know the lack of manners of RAF aircrew, the AAC act like a more professional bunch.

brandnew asks [quote]Question: are RAF rotary pilots bitter / arrogant because they are not in fast jets? (chopped / restreamed / downstreamed etc)[\quote] the answer is NO, they are just arrogant, but not as arrogant as the Harrier seat-to-stick interface unit.

The only people who see aircrew as top of the tree, are FJ Pilots, ask them what they think of door sliders and winchweights.

Ask groundcrew who is at the top of the tree. - different answer but same tree.

Oggin Aviator

Quite correct, it is, after all, a service that's purpose is to drive ships around.

However we get paid sh*t loads more than them in flying pay so we can quietly sit on the side counting our pennies while the warfare fisheads get promoted before us and climb the career ladder.

A lot of WAFUs realise this but are quite happy with this arrangement. After all, we get to get off the ship very regularly and have lots of fun doing it. C'est la vie!

Oggin

Yozzer

When they are bobbing up & down in the briney, most think that winchweights and door technitions are wonderful people.

Whilst I will give myself a `100` lines for joining this somewhat pathetic thread at all, I will add this:

I recently flew as a door operator on a sortie that included QHI v Army pilots (commisioned and NCOs in turn) and QHCI v Army door gunners acting as RAF Door operator.

The potential that the door gunners have to contribute to their crew is an untapped source. For they have awareness and airmanship that the `Army way`does not allow to achieve their full potential.

The AAC pilots were without exception complimentary about the ability of the Crab Cab to safely (and quickly) land in a min limit confined area, that is 10` only all around the disc. FWIW if the AAC pilots (Captains) had a little more respect and CRM for the crew (Pilot and Gunner) then I would have only praise for them.

A Captain yelling at the handling pilot and simply ignoring the gunner did not make for an impressive sight, and I am led to believe that this is the norm not a one off.

I also believe that anybody flying the wrong side of a front line should at the very least be a Sergeant. The logic being the Geneve Convention rules. Which means that the Army have got it wrong with Cpl pilots and that the rank should go with the pilot qualification. Door Gunners should also get a monthly flying pay not the administrative burden of claiming for each day flown that they do at present.

Hopefully that sounds impartial, and I am a crab!

Wappy Tupper

Hmmm ... can't wait for ABIW to join in on this one...

BTW, 875 - me thinks you have large chips on each shoulder!

Yozzer

"875 - me thinks you have large chips on each shoulder!"

The real ZH875 is a J model C130 Hercules. The tone of the comments would suggest a Crew Chief assuming that they still carry such things, or a frustrated WSOp. I`ll go for the first one:

Bertie Thruster

Having experienced both sides (10 yr Army, 13 yr RAF) my only observation on this matter would be that many NCO Army pilots could make good RAF officers but quite a few RAF pilots would struggle to make the grade as Army officers.

Wappy Tupper

Yozzer

Nah, not a crew chief/ ground eng; the GEs on the J are all top blokes and there is mutual respect between them and the crews.

Maybe a WSOp, but probably a chopped pilot, now frustrated having reached the dizzy heights of middle management.

BEagle

Bertie is probably right. The army would never commission some of the really rather common people the RAF does....

AlanM

Beag's you are right. I would never have gotten wun ov them comisssuning fings, like, in the army.

As a mere ATCO, and ex RAFSH opsie - I have to say that from my point of view both Army and RAF are always well briefed and professional. Irrespective of whether Daddy was 2i/c at the Coldstream or Uncle ex CAS.

Always a pleasure to see y'all on the Helilanes.

So - it is officially a draw!!

I'll let you chaps sort out the snobbery