Genghis the Engineer

In the end credits of the film "Battle of Britain" is shows the numbers of each nationality who flew as pilots in the battle, and were lost.

It shows one pilot from Israel.


Except, so far as I know, the state of Israel was founded in 1948.

Anybody know what the story is there?

G

Mr_Grubby

Genghis.

Interesting question. Could they be refering to P/O Geoffrey E Goodman who is listed as coming from Palestine ? He was KIA. I don't know the circumstances. Will need to do more research.


Mr G.

Boss Raptor

Israeli's tended to call themselves that from the early 30's onwards when jews started to go to Palestine. Could be that the pilot became Israeli post war or was an original Palestine settler who then called himself Israeli ?

Israeli president Ezer Weizman was from Palestine and an RAF Fighter Pilot in WW2 as an example, 1942-1946, but not Battle of Britain.

tharg

Been some posts about that credit on BoB thread in Mil Pilots. Have seen some reports elsewhere of a stunt pilot called Milton Rubenfeld who joined at outbreak of war. Says he flew hurricanes in a small (4 - 5 aircraft) unit in spotting role for 420 sqn. But can only find mention of 420 as RCAF bomber outfit. Perhaps he got the number wrong?

Generally accepted reason for the credit is down to one of the film's producers, Benjamin Fisz, who flew Hurricanes with 303 sqn but did not start operations until October 40. Well, that's close enough?

Captain Airclues

Genghis

"the state of Israel was founded in 1948"

Israel dates back to at least 2000BC. After the secession of Israel and Judea in 931BC. Israel was destroyed by the Assyrians in 722BC. Judea was renamed Syria Palaestina in 135AD after tha unsuccessful revolt against the Romans. It is only the present, Independent State of Israel that was founded in 1948.
After Jacob had been renamed 'Israel', his descendents were known as the 'children of Israel'. Could this be the reason that this pilot stated his birthplace as Israel rather than whatever it was called at the time?

Airclues

Genghis the Engineer

I don't know, that's why I was asking - not any attempt to denegrate the modern nation of Israel, or any ancient predecessor.

Having said that, from what you say "Children of Israel" between 722BC and 1948AD implied a racial and religious identity, rather than a nationality. The scrolling "credits" at the end of the film did say "nationality". Which does nothing to shed light on the problem really.

G

PPRuNe Pop

According to the RAF Battle of Britain Roll of Honour P/O Goodman registered as a Palestinian.

It was Benjamin Fisz, as producer, who decided to credit him as an Israeli. He must have had a reason but the RAF would have the correct nationality as a matter of fact..

Mr_Grubby

This might be a little off thread, but interesting all the same. I have only managed to find a single reference to P/O Goodman. It reads as follows :-

……And Geoffrey Goodman recalled the time, in September, 1940, when his Hurricane, attacked successively by two ME 109s, arrived back at Croydon “shot to ribbons.” With no spare planes available, he was ordered to fly “this battered wreck” to Henlow Maintenance Unit, Bedfordshire, to get another machine off the line.
One of the first souls he encountered on arrival at Henlow was a corporal from the Service Police. Enraged that he was not carrying a gas mask, the enraged corporal asked Goodman “ Do you realise that there is a war on” ? Goodmans reply is not recorded.

Mr G.

Torres

Only vaguely related I guess, but the Australian Archives maintain an on line record of all who served in World War II at Australian Archives

It is interesting to note that amongst those who served in the RAAF, two were born in Japan; seventeen were born in Germany; and forty eight were born in Italy.