Our syndicate made precisely the "mistake" referred to several years ago. The group member charged with maintenance ( and Cof A) issues was aware that the the C of A was due to expire just after the aircraft was due in for its annual inspection. At the last moment however the maintenance organisation deferred the annual by a couple of weeks due to pressure of work and since all members had been given to understand that the aircraft was within its Cof A right up to the time of the next check, it was unwittingly flown without a C of A on several occasions. The relevant flight entries had been made in the tech log and the MO felt they had no alternative but to advise the CAA. The CAA enquired into the circumstances of what had happened and issued a written warning for us to tighten up our procedures. No disciplinary action was taken for what was perceived as a genuine mistake and not a deliberate action
A couple of years ago I did some flying in Australia. Each aircraft carried a little card which had to be signed with name and licence number of the first person to fly it at the beginning of each day. The signature confirmed that a complete daily inspection had been carried out. This was not just a club rule but an official CAA requirement and could be the subject of a random ramp check. I've often thought that this was a good discipline and would at least make sure that someone had taken care to make sure everything was in order for at least that day.
I've also encountered a similar situation as FBM and as I stated in a my previous post where the MO has reported an out of date CofA and the CAA have just wrapped the owners knuckles.
I don't keep a tech log in the aircraft. It is a private aircraft and their is nothing requiring me to do so. When I get home I write up the aircraft/prop/engine log books.
If this was a blatant example of someone flying KNOWING the CofA had expired then fair enough but you lot are having a holier than thou witch hunt for what seems like a clear mistake. No harm no foul.
one of the members unknowingly uses it when the CofA had expired.
Then this member has a gaping hole in his knowledge base and its time you re-educated him; or kicked him out of the syndicate. If he had crashed it and the insurance had not paid up, its your money that would be lost!
Let the first person not to have made a mistake cast the first stone....
It happens and is in mans nature to b*lls up once in a while... I would take it on board that it happened and learn from it, it may make you all think of how to set up a system to stop it happening again.
I often think that when Airlines sack pilots for incidents like the one that ran out of fuel in the Airbus or the ones that had the Incident at EMA many moons ago that tore of one leg then flew to Birmingham and put it down there........ Its a bit odd to get rid of them, fair enough the messed up big time, but you can guarrantee they wont do it again and they would be about the safest pilots to fly with in the future.
Location: Resident of Cumbria but usually in the air or on the road.
Age: 47
Posts: 857
The extract from the ANO covers it. Unfortunately, for all the indignation expressed about making a mistake, an owner is required to manage the continuing airworthiness of an aircraft or have it managed for them. C of A, maintenance status etc all part of this. Invalid C of A = invalid insurance. You can anticipate a C of A by 62 days under national regs; 90 days when the ARC is fully in force. If an airline were to allow a C of A to lapse (I know one which did), there will be a rap on the knuckles. A witch-hunt achieves no purpose; determine why it happened and take some steps to reduce the possibility of recurrence.
I don't trust people who use phrases such as "Knowledge base" or "Skillset" or any other "Apprentice style speak"! Plain speak (excuse the pun) is sorely missed in this "everyone's an executive" age!
I have to say I have to share bose-x's views on this topic. My reponse to Gertrude the Wombat is that all the aircrafts documents (inc CofA) are kept in the aircraft in a folder labelled "aircraft documents!" I wouldn't expect someone to look at these everytime they fly but I would think that it would be looked at once in a while to have it in the back of your mind (I know I do). The individual can only have himself to blame but as most of you say, mistakes happen and everyone learns from them.
Yes, legally you don't need to keep a tech log with the aircraft in private cat or permit. But surely the ANO states clearly that for any flight to be legal, the pilot needs to ensure that not only is the pilot current and legal, but the aircraft is too.
What is the issue about having on the journey log the dates of maintenance?
We have a tech log/journey log on the same sheet and the operating pilot is supposed to ensure that there is sufficient time/days for the flight and onward flight to the maintenance organisation.
As I said earlier, if they exceed these times, they will have serious issues in getting further bookings - just as if they have a history of returning the aircraft with low fuel.
I wouldn't expect someone to look at these everytime they fly but I would think that it would be looked at once in a while to have it in the back of your mind
Roger
Similar to my comment to Bose-X
It is part of the pre-flight check in my group that we check the journey/tech log before every flight. Yes, I can't guarantee that they do so, but it is stupid not to, as it shows notes we leave after our flights.
For example, if we had an issue with braking, handling or other issues we might declare the aircraft tech until it had been sorted. If you don't read it, how would you know?
True, after the Check A, we are in a different situation, but each pilot must sheck the DIbook/Journeylog/TechLog before each flight - just in case
If the CofA has run out I hope your engineer is on the same airfield or you will have to ask the CAA to fly it to the maintenance base, so your last flight declaration might show up there.
We had a case in our group where, after changes of maintenance organisation (and for all I know, something to do with EASA changes), our maintenance officer discovered that the CofA expired earlier than he thought. He found it before the date, so no one flew the plane without CofA. However, there but for the grace of God go I. It wouldn't have been a case of wilful not checking the CofA, but genuine confusion over the validity.
All members of a group should be well aware of upcoming mandatory maintenance schedules and to fly having no clue as to when something is due is somewhat surprising.
Do you not perform your AROW checks before you go fly? (AROW in the US - may be ARROW in Europe). Important to do so in a rental or group aircraft.
Get ramped checked by an FAA inspector and it would ruin your day.
Yes, legally you don't need to keep a tech log with the aircraft in private cat or permit. But surely the ANO states clearly that for any flight to be legal, the pilot needs to ensure that not only is the pilot current and legal, but the aircraft is too.
What is the issue about having on the journey log the dates of maintenance?
We have a tech log/journey log on the same sheet and the operating pilot is supposed to ensure that there is sufficient time/days for the flight and onward flight to the maintenance organisation.
As I said earlier, if they exceed these times, they will have serious issues in getting further bookings - just as if they have a history of returning the aircraft with low fuel.
Nobody has suggested this is a repeat offender, the opening line was that it was an inadvertent mistake. A discussion between the group members on improving things to ensure that it does not happen again. There was no harm came to this so I really don't see why everyone has a holier than thou approach to this.
Or put it another way Robin, if you EVER make a mistake I will take it as a personal crusade to hang you out to dry on these forums. Think about that and sit and tell me you will NEVER make a mistake EVER........
If everyone was perfect we would not need insurance as accidents would not happen and us Instructors and Examiners would not be doing training and test for those whose licences accidentally expire. We are all human an make mistakes. If we learn from the mistakes without harm to ourselves or others than we improve.
Watching people sitting here and pontificating about this when we could all just as easily do the same thing makes me sick.
The internet is a marvellously anonymous podium from which to pontificate.
By the way, after only flying for twenty five years and only being familiar with a mere 10,000 or so aviation acronyms. mnemonics and abbreviations, I havent yet got round to memorising AROW, so what is it?
A - Airworthiness certificate R - Registration R - Radio license (only need for international travel) O - Operating handbook (POH) W - Weight and balance
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