Aircraft fire at Stansted

[LTN man]

BBC East reporting that a Boeing 737 with 170 passengers is on fire on the runway at Stansted.

[Nickctaylor]

117 passengers and 7 crew have been evacuated safely from a Boeing 737 at Stansted airport. There was a fire in engine 2.

Thought to be Ryanair

[LTN man]

Two people requiring attention for smoke inhalation. Confirm Ryanair aircraft from Dublin

[LTN man]

FR 296 Boeing 737-800

[MFALK]

Any websites with pictures of this incident?

[FlapsOne]

Stuff the pictures.........I hope everyone is OK.

[fruitbat]

From BBC:

More than 100 passengers and crew were evacuated from an aeroplane after one of its engines caught fire as it came into land. . .Emergency crews were called to Stansted Airport in Essex on Wednesday after the Boeing 737 from Dublin landed at 1715 GMT.

A spokesman for the airport said smoke was spotted pouring from the engine of the Ryanair plane by air traffic control staff.

Essex ambulance crews treated two people at the scene for the effects of smoke.

. .'Normal' landing

"As is normal procedure the airport's fire crews were called in and Essex ambulance service was called," said the spokesman.

"The aircraft had a perfectly normal landing and after it came to a standstill the fire was put out and the passengers and crew were evacuated."

Essex Fire and Rescue Service initially sent in 10 appliances to the scene, which left the scene at about 1800 GMT.

A spokeswoman said: "Foam jets and dry powder extinguishers were used to bring the fire under control.

"The situation has now been scaled back and we have left it in the care of the airport."

The airport later confirmed a full investigation would be carried out into the incident.

[Flintstone]

Brace yourself for the usual flurry of sensationalist reporting.

"...pilots wrestled with the controls as the aircraft plummeted earthward. Mr A Eyewitness said 'We could hear the passengers screaming as the plane zoomed over our house barely missing my granny'".

And if any of the journos that lurk within these walls plagiarise that I'll have 'em.

[Bearcat]

2nd serious incident in recent times. Thankfully all well

[basketeer]

from what i hear , crew ( and positioning crew )did an exellent job , a textbook case , all pax evacuated within 60 second's ! a tribute to the training . well done guys !

[Aircraft_Nut9]

This was the report on RTE teletext.. . [quote] The passengers & crew of a Ryanair 737 . . were evacuated from the aircraft at . . Stansted airport this evening when one . . of the plane's engines caught fire. . . . . The flight from Dublin had just landed . . at 17.20 when the fire broke out. . . . . As soon as the plane came to a . . standstill, the 117 passengers were . . evacuated along with seven crew members. . and foam and powder were used to . . extinguish the blaze. . . . . Two people are reported to have . . received minor foot injuries. . .<a href="http://www.rte.ie/aertel/p113.htm" target="_blank">teletext link</a>. .<hr></blockquote>

A bit surprised that this has happened to a 738 as opposed to the more elderly 732's <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Good to hear that all have gotten out O.K.. . <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[niallcooney]

Are you sure it was a 738? Most Of the 738's are used for longer haul flights... at least none of the Ryanair flight's I've seen and flown on to and from Dublin were 738's, they were all 732's... can anyone confirm this? I'd be surprised as well to hear of a CFM-56 bursting into flames! I'm just glad the pilots and crew did their jobs properly and got it down and everyone out in one piece.

[monkey_wrench]

No doubt about it, a 737-800.....

[Nickctaylor]

Some PA Copy

LUCKY ESCAPE FOR PLANE BLAZE PASSENGERS. .By Dylan Dronfield and Brian Farmer, PA News. .Air passengers tonight spoke of their terror as they noticed one of the. .engines on their jet was on fire.. .More than 100 passengers escaped the Ryanair jet on inflatable slides after. .one of the engines caught fire shortly after landing at Stansted airport in. .Essex.. .Airport firefighters extinguished the blaze before it spread and two people. .needed hospital treatment for minor injuries, a Ryanair spokeswoman said.. .The fire, in engine two, happened after the Boeing 737-800 was delayed for. .more than an hour in Dublin when a plastic bag was caught in the other engine,. .she added.. .Lucinda Conyngham, 33, a film producer from Dundalk who now lives in. .Barcelona, said: "I am very relieved to be down on the ground and just glad. .that the plane didn't catch fire while we were in the air.. ."Just as we were stopping people started saying that there was a fire and. .that the engine was on fire.. ."I would say within about five minutes the fire engines were there and then. .almost straight away there was an announcement for us to evacuate the plane and. .we got off.. ."Some people were panicking and some people were screaming but generally it. .was pretty calm. The staff on the plane were very good.". .Martin Murray, 26, a charity worker from Monaghan, said: "You were just. .thinking that you had to get out and worrying about what might happen if the. .plane caught fire or the cabin filled with smoke.. ."When I got out I just started running around. As far as I knew I was still. .back in Ireland. I was just glad to be out.. ."As I came out of the plane I could see the fire. There was smoke coming out. .and we could see the fire engines.". .A spokesman for Stansted said two passengers suffered slight injuries as they. .were sliding down the safety chutes.. ."I believe one twisted an ankle and another suffered some sort of scratch to. .a leg.. ."The plane called for two ambulances and both people were taken to the. .Princess Alexandra hospital in Harlow.". .A Ryanair statement said: "After landing at Stansted airport, the crew on. .Ryanair FR296 from Dublin were notified by the Air Traffic Control tower that. .they could see smoke coming from one of the two engines.. ."The crew instituted normal safety procedure in such circumstances, which. .involved shutting down the engine, bringing the aircraft to a complete stop and. .deploying the slides to facilitate a passenger evacuation.. ."The aircraft has been removed from service for a full inspection by Ryanair. .engineers and relevant authorities.". .The spokeswoman said the plane was delayed for more than an hour in Dublin. .before take-off while a plastic bag was removed from engine one.. .That engine was not the one at the centre of the fire scare, she stressed.. .Ryanair said the Boeing 737-800 jet was carrying 117 passengers and a crew of. .six.. .Many of the passengers were tonight put up in hotels in Cambridge before. .flying on to further destinations tomorrow.. .end

272151 FEB 02

[Maxfli]

I must say I was amused that RTE thought it relevant to show a Korean F-16 "Bomber" on fire and a pilot ejecting as relevant to the B737 ground incident in Stansted. I'm totally baffled.

Well done to the crew and services today.

[Gin Slinger]

...yes...luckily the London (Essex) Fire Brigade were on hand to put the blaze out.

[Ignition Override]

As a pilot, just wondering if the problem engine produced normal power on final and with reverse thrust after landing. Or did the Captain decide to pull the affected throttle to idle before landing? Our engines are the old Pratt @ Whitney JT8D (-7, 9, 11, 15 or 17 series).

Did the 737 give normal engine fire indications in the fire handle, EICAS etc, and did activation of one or both extinguisher "bottles" result in fewer indications?

[ 28 February 2002: Message edited by: Ignition Override ]</p>

[RatherBeFlying]

Great job done by all -- pilots, FAs, ATC, emergency services, even the pax.

Hopefully there will be no denigration of hero status as with Melanie Oswalt.

[BRL]

Well done all involved... Must be pretty freaky when that kind of thing happens. Well done getting them out safe.

[LTN man]

"Many of the passengers were tonight put up in hotels in Cambridge before flying on to further destinations tomorrow"

This is because their luggage is still on the aircraft.

Passengers will of course be expected to pay their own hotel bills.

[ 28 February 2002: Message edited by: LTN man ]</p>

[Flap 5]

Hero status? Come on! This is what we do our 6 monthly base checks for. This is what we get paid for. They did their job, and they did it well. That is all.

[Nick Figaretto]

MFALK: [quote]Any websites with pictures of this incident? <hr></blockquote>

Maxfli: [quote]I must say I was amused that RTE thought it relevant to show a Korean F-16 "Bomber" on fire and a pilot ejecting as relevant to the B737 ground incident in Stansted. I'm totally baffled.<hr></blockquote>

Is MFALK a journalist frome RTE?

[MFALK]

Just for the record, MFALK is a current ATPL pilot with three jet ratings, including the 737. :-)

[Tom the Tenor]

What aeroplane was she and how long is she in the Ryanair fleet and are the engines moved about among the fleet after maintenance & overhaul?

[Greg Baddeley]

Blimey - how much else do you want to know?!?! Is any of this at all relevant?

[fruitbat]

"Come this way...come this way..and JUMP! No I haven't got change for a twenty!

[Steepclimb]

I'm not 100% sure if Ryanairs -800 has CFM56's. But if they are CFM's then it would hardly be off the wing yet given their (normally good) reliability. But whatever having spent rather too long in the engine maintenance business I know these things do happen and prove profitable for engine overhaulers.. .I've already seen some ridiculous statements in newspapers. 'They wouldn't let us get our luggage out of the lockers'. 'Some woman wearing high heels had to walk around the muddy field in her bare feet', oh dear. 'The cabin crew were shouting at us' Looks like the cabin crew earned their rather low pay then. Did a good job.

[wing_monkey]

Great job done by all involved !!

A/C evacuated safely in 45secs.

Believe the crew got no fire warning, they had info from the tower that there was smoke seen from #2 engine and this was confirmed by the fire crews. It is beieved that a bearing gave way leading to a core fire. The crew had reported a noticable vibration coming from the engine.

Again it was a job well done..! <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[DW11]

Steepclimb,

All 737-800's have CFM56's. You don't get a choice, unless you fancy a glider.

[newswatcher]

There seem to be a number of reports(media) that the flight crew were not aware of the fire until told by ATC.

If true, this is slightly worrying, as is the inference that it was the airport fire service that put out the fire, rather than any "in-engine" extinguishing system.

Would a 737 expert care to expand on this, giving the "real" picture?. . <img src="confused.gif" border="0"> <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[Richard5]

Quote

"Passengers will of course be expected to pay their own hotel bills"

No they won't, and they didn't.

From someone who was there.

[Top Loadie]

Aircraft was indeed a B737-800, reg EI-CSA. I believe it was Ryanair's first -800 delivered...

[Hot 'n' High]

Newswatcher- This is not a problem! I'll explain as the concept is true of all aircraft and it works a treat - really since Pontius was a Pilate.

Fire Detection Systems and Fire Suppression Systems work outside the engine but within the pod. The analogy with a car is that the two systems are located round the engine, outside of the engine but under the bonnet. The detection system works on excess heat. If the fire is in the engine itself it is safe (after all there is a whole ring of flames in the combustors) but the temperature will rise and eventually set off a warning. If the fire is outside the engine the warning will be activated quicker as that is a bit more serious but the heat gets to the Detection System more quickly as it is closer!

Activating the extiguishers will do two things. Most importantly it cuts off the flow of fuel to the engine thus taking away one side of the Fire Triangle (the other two being Heat and Oxygen). It also floods the engine bay (the space between the pod and the engine) with extinguishant. Again, in the car analogy, it sprays in under the bonnet, not into the cylinders. If you sprayed it into the engine it would simply get blown out the back anyway! Any fire inside the engine will quickly burn out as you have removed the fuel supply and the engine itself will not burn. You may get some oil from bearings buring off as well, again quite safely.

We don't know what happened here but it sounds like it was a fire in the engine itself, not between the pod and the engine. This is probably why there was smoke but no fire warning - yet. Given time, and before any real damage occured outside the engine, temps would have risen in the pod and the Pilots would have instantly swung into action when the Detection System activated. The Fire Service will have simply put out any residual fires in the engine (as they like doing that sort of thing!) and I suspect the the boys in the Cockpit pulled the handle to just make sure there was nothing untoward smouldering in the pod as a sensible precaution.

As you can see, all quite safe and undramatic! Hope this answers your questions.

Regards, H 'n' H <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[newswatcher]

Thanks H&H. I was imagining what might have happened if this had occurred in flight. I was not aware that the monitors were not planned to activate until the fire had become "uncontained".

[crab]

I have the good fortune to be borne aloft by RR engines.As well as having external fire sensors these engines have sensors in the core of the engine which give early warning of overheat in the critical area of the engine which enables shutdown before serious damage or fire occurs.I`m not sure if the CFM56 is fitted with these.I believe there have been CFM56 failures in the past which have been difficult to diagnose with at least one leading to an accident.. .Glad to be flying RR!

[Hot 'n' High]

newswatcher - "I was not aware that the monitors were not planned to activate until the fire had become "uncontained"."

Your statement is not quite correct and could be seen as being slightly alarmist! I'll explain. If there is a fire in the engine itself, this will cause the temperature on the engine casing to rise sufficiently to trigger the Detection System. The fire itself will be still be "contained" within the core. The Detection System, as well as the surrounding structure, is so designed that the Detection System will activate well before there is any structural damage - even if the fire were to start outside the core but in the pod. Yes, things might get slighly blackened but the structural integrity of the engine, pod, pylon etc is designed to remain uneffected.

The problem with fire Detection is that you have a great big fire in the engine when it is running, all be it well contained in the combustors. You have to make sure the Detection System goes off only when the fires appear in areas other than where the designers intended! As Tyrannosaurus says, individual engines do have additional measures where required/prudent. This is particularly true of the big fan engines. Smaller engines, for example on helicopters, stick with the more simple system as the engine is physically much more compact. In addition, there are other systems which are used to indicate that all may not be well with an engine; oil pressure, oil temperature, engine vibration etc. An engine can be shut down as a precaution when these other indications suggest that there is a problem - well before anything else happens.

I simply wanted to convey the overall principles to you so that, no matter what aircraft you see flying overhead or you are in (possibly of much more interest to you!!!), you will understand that the concept is to detect and extinguish the fire before it is a danger to the aircraft. You may see smoke and flames and the airport fire service running round having a great time but the structure itself is safe. An example of how things can look spectacular but not have much real effect? A chip pan fire! When that catches fire there is smoke and flame everywhere. Quickly move in and put your dishcloth over it to put it out (remove the Oxygen from the good old Fire Triangle) and all you have is some soot round the pan rim. The metal itself is structurally uneffected even though it looked like the whole world was about to end. And, no, I've not tried this one at home - touch wood!!!!!

Hope this has been of help.

Cheers, H 'n' H

[ 01 March 2002: Message edited by: Hot 'n' High ]</p>

[fernytickles]

Hey, Ryanair made it international with this one! Our local version of The Times (well, sort of..... ) , the Oshkosh Northwestern, had an article about this incident - thats a real adventure for them! Reporting something outwith Wisconsin is quite an achievement.

[Steepclimb]

Someone mentioned the crew 'reporting vibration' on that engine. . .Just to be a devils advocate, I wonder just how long that vibration was there before the bearing failed? Just asking.. .One other thing although the aircraft was the first 738 in Ryanair. I believe the engine is new, the latest dash number even. Could this problem be specific to that particular engine mark? Are there problems ahead for CFM? Or just a one off? . .Idle speculation really!

[newswatcher]

H&H, Thank you for your clarification. I think we may have been saying the same thing, but with different interpretation!

Working in "risk prevention" I have often specified the use of VESDA devices in computer installations, so that a fire may be contained within a "stack" of equipment, rather than being allowed to "break out" and only be detected at room level.

[Al Weaver]

An industry team has been studying the role of PSM + ICR (Propulsion System Makfunction + Inappropriate Crew Respones) items for a few years now. One of the biggies was reaction to suspected fire. Either during takeoff, in the air or on the ground. The report is available through the FAA web site.

Regarding my undrestanding so far of this latest incident. If the tower was the only source of the initial report of fire or smoke, the latest recomendations would have been for the pilot to monitor instruments for evidence of fire in the nacelle and act accordingly (retard-shut down if necessary and lastly pull the fire handle). If no evdience of fire in the nacelle, then the pilot should monitor his engine instruments (and act accordingly). If still no evidence, than I believe that the recomendation is that the pilot should consider the possibility of a tailpipe fire which would call for him to shut off the fuel upon landing and motor the engine on the starter.

The idea was to reduce the possibility of inappropriate evacuations and passenger injuries where there was no fire threat to the aircraft (tailpipe fire).

Unfotunately things can be driven beyond the crews control if passengers start deplaning while engines are still running and you have to avoid using the starter in case a passenger gets in front of one of the engines.

[sweeper]

this website has become really silly and boring...

[Jet II]

Iomapaseo

[quote] Unfotunately things can be driven beyond the crews control if passengers start deplaning while engines are still running and you have to avoid using the starter in case a passenger gets in front of one of the engines.

<hr></blockquote>

I wouldn't worry about sucking the SLF into the engine whilst motoring over on the starter, the CFM wouldn't even be able to suck in your expenses.

Augustus Finknottle . . . . [quote] Put a bunch of semi-illiterate Irish Gypsies (with accountancy "degrees" from the University of Guatemala) together with "pilots" and "engineers" from "The Seychelles Academy of Aeronautics" and you are asking for trouble. <hr></blockquote>

I find this remark quite offensive (I am not Irish and I don't work for Ryanair).

There is a serious point about the standard of maintenance of these low cost airlines, not because of the competance of the Engineers but due to how the maintenance contracts have been agreed. Ryanairs maintenance was done, until recently, by FLS - as I understand it the contract was written to favour Ryanair and FLS actually made a loss on it. If the maintenance organisation is not making any money the standard of engineering support is bound to fall.

I know FLS freely went into this contract and therefore it is their own fault, but that is no consolation to the people at 30,000ft if something goes wrong.

[hobie]

quote ....

"Put a bunch of semi-illiterate Irish Gypsies (with accountancy "degrees" from the University of Guatemala) together with "pilots" and "engineers" from "The Seychelles Academy of Aeronautics" and you are asking for trouble etc etc .....

I am not Irish but also find such language unaceptable from a professional Pilot or Engineer ..... some of the language being used about Irish Aviators in this forum would almost certainly attract the eyes of the British Authorities in the "Race descrimination" area ......

[Capt PPRuNe]

Comments such as those by Augustus Finknottle, part of which have3 been repeated in the post above will not be tolerated here. Anyone else with racist or xenophobic tendencies will be refused a platform for their ignorant remarks.. . <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

[Herod]

How about we stop this Ryan-bashing and look at the scenario. You are the crew. ATC report smoke coming from the engine after landing. One thing is for sure, they are not going to let you park that thing on one of their nice airbridges and risk smoke getting into the terminal. Now what do you do? Allow the passengers to remain aboard, with the possibility that the whole thing may go up on you? Or do what this crew did, evacuate the passengers and leave the airport fire services, who have bigger extinguishers than you, tackle the problem. No, I wasn't there, and can't say for sure that they made the right decision, but something tells me that I would have done the same thing. Nobody hurt and the aircraft intact. Fly with you anytime, Captain.

[A/c Slave]

Jet II you are just as bad and wrong in claming Fls may be partly responsible for what happened.. . Saying maintenance was sub-standard because of the Fls -Ryanair realionship etc.. . You are an absoult **** for saying things like that.. . . . Just to educate you my friend, the engine failure was due to the failure of the #5 main bearing in the engine, which there has been an SB from the manufacture about, Thats all I'll say.. . So it has absoultly nothing to do with Fls maintenance or Ryanair what so ever...... .. . Do some homework before you say stuff like that which can be very damaging to the said companies.. .. . Fls has been keeping Ryan and loads other Aircraft and their Pax (MILLIONS) safe and happy for many, many years.. .I don't think the Boys and girls of Fls that work their skin off will appreciate your comments.. . Think next time please............ .. . Best Regards. . Slave. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="mad.gif" />

[Jet II]

A/c Slave . .. .I do apologize for upsetting you. In no way was I blaming FLS for this accident. You seem to have taken my comments the wrong way - what I am concerned about is the difficulty any support company would have in providing excellent service if it was not making any money on the contract. . .. .I have worked with FLS in the past and have no problems with the skills and profesionalism of the engineers, however I know that some managers who find themselves in an unproductive contract will not put in the resources needed for the best of the operation.

[Vick Van Guard]

A/c slave. .Thanks for the gen regarding the bearing.. .. .I thought it was something like that. There sure was a lot vibration evident in the cabin, followed by a lot of white smoke out of the jet pipe on shut down, not sure if there was any fire though. . .. .Thumbs up to the flight attendant on the p.a. who was determined to carry on flogging off the train tickets and telecom cards above the din of the number 2 engine trying to vibrate itself to peices!!. .. .Thumbs down to Stansted security who would not let pax out of baggage hall (after waiting a couple of hours) into terminal for large brandies, scotches etc.

[320DRIVER]

VICK, are you saying the cabin staff continued reading commercial-type PA announcements when something was clearly amiss? Hardly something to give a "thumbs up" too!. .. .In fact, we are trying to remove these superflous PAs from our company since the passengers are being bombarded with PAs starting from on-board DUTY frees to RENT-A-CAR ads etc. In the end, most of the pax start ignoring the PA.

[nanourrutia]

Perhaps someone should pick up all those plastic bags that are flying around. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="confused.gif" />

[Vick Van Guard]

320DRIVER. .. .Yes as I said the commercials over the p.a. carried on even when it was evident there was something wrong.. . . .The thumbs up was for carring on regardless in a kind of British stiff upper lip type way! (except I think they may have been Spanish)!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" /> . .. .Its an interesting point about the p.a.'s. I reguarly fly a route operated by Ryanair and another carrier. There are fewer announcements on the other carrier, and people seem to take more notice - like not trying to collect their hand baggage out of the overhead as the aircraft turns off the runway for example!

[crossfeedclosed]

At last! A considered responsible topic about Ruyanair well discussed until one !!!!!!!! starts the racist tripe again. Well done Danny, stop it now - all of it. Regarding the issue, the crew did a first-class job by all accounts. Well done to a good professional bunch of people doing what they've been trained for and like the rest of us, hope they never have to put into practice. It was a failed bearing according to an engineer friend who works in STN. I'd be very happy to be in the hands of this crew any time. It doesn't matter whether they work for Ryanair, Easy, Go or BA. They're all professionals doing a professional job. Thanks guys and gals and well done to all.

[flapsforty]

Vick might it be possible that the cabin crew here was trying to distract the pax by acting "normal", the way they were taught to do?. .. ........remembers once having been told to walk through the cabin with an empty coffee pot during a bit of unpleasantness to give a semblance of business as usal.......

[Few Cloudy]

Sure that wasn't your tea pot again Ms 40?

[Sean Dell]

Heard a rumour that the flaps weren't lowered so the chaps who tried to exit the over wing exits had to turn back into the cabin - I could be wrong and probably am - Anyone care to comment?

[ccalves]

Bad F/O. Failed his recall item.

[Localiser Green]

Report is out on this one:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_avsafety/documents/page/dft_avsafety_029538.hcsp

[Doug the Head]

Bad F/O. Failed his recall item. Not quite so if you read the link supplied by Localiser Green! While completing the flight deck evacuation drills, the commander noticed that the flaps were travelling very slowly. To expedite the evacuation he decided to shut down the left engine with the flaps at about 2°.

[JamesT73J]

I wonder if the engine instrumentation was helpful to the crew in this instance?

I remember reading at the time of the Kegworth incident that the vibration indicators were not that helpful, although I understand this was the previous generation of that aircraft, with slightly different CFM's under the wings.

Do the numbers on the vibration gauge actually mean anything in terms of units, or is it just a guideline for the crew?

[Ranger One]

JamesT73J:

Do the numbers on the vibration gauge actually mean anything in terms of units, or is it just a guideline for the crew?

It's an indication. What you're looking for is *change* in vibration levels... I'm aware of cases where the Imminent Occurence of Something Nasty has been announced by a sudden *decrease* in vibration.

It's just one piece of evidence - you have to look at the bigger picture - EGT, N1/N2, EPR, fuel flow etc.

Also figures as a parameter in the engineers long-term engine trend monitoring, for failure prediction.

The 'units' are arbitrary numbers, AFAIK.

R1