Cathay pilots grounded over alleged bar fight

[Alpha Leader]

From today's SCMP

Two pilots grounded over alleged bar fight

Clifford Lo and Victoria Button

Two Cathay Pacific pilots involved in a dispute in which one allegedly punched the other during an argument about racial discrimination have been grounded pending an internal investigation.

Police allege South African Peter Horrell, 30, punched Australian Robert Tracey, 36, in the Dakota Bar in the Cathay City complex near Chek Lap Kok at about 3.00 a.m. yesterday.

A club manager called police, who arrested Horrell; later releasing him on $2,000 bail and ordering him to report to police on June 18.

A police spokeswoman said the alleged assault was believed to have been triggered by an argument over racial discrimination. No charges have been laid.

The police spokeswoman said Mr Tracey was left with bleeding lips and a lose tooth. The spokeswoman added that Mr Tracey was taken to Princess Margret Hospital in Kwai Chung but later discharged himself.

Cathay’s director of corporate development, Tony Tyler, said the airline had suspended the two second officers from flying while an internal disciplinary investigation was under way. He said this was not punishment but in order to give investigators access to the pilots.

Disciplinary action would be taken if it was deemed necessary, Mr Tyler said, adding: “We do expect all of our staff to conform to proper standards of behaviour….in particular towards each other.”

Mr Tyler said the alleged altercation was not related to the industrial situation at Cathay.

Last year Cathay suspended and then sacked Captain Scott Munro for throwing peanuts at the airline’s chief executive, David Turnbull, in the bar.

[Airport Train]

Things are obviously Hunky Dory for the new arrivals at The Fragrant Harbour.

[411A]

Hmmm, looks like the new guys have too much time on their hands.

[jumpseat]

Thats probably the funniest thing 411a has ever typed.
For someone with "too much time on their hands"....... follow this link.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=37332

And he's still online as I type this, moaning about something else, putting someone else down. SOG

[Kubota]

"Hello Kettle...Hello Kettle...Pot here."

SOG

[1-stripper]

Close the Dakota Bar.:D

[chimbu warrior]

Interesting comments by Herr Tyler........"we do expect all our staff to conform to proper standards of behaviour..............."
Obviously dosen't apply to management when dealing with pilots.......

[Kaptin M]

I found this unsolicited comment from Tony (who appears to have been appointed "Manager for Bar Incidents" for CX) interesting.
Mr Tyler said "the alleged altercation was not related to the industrial situation at Cathay."

Obviously the industrial situation IS playing on his mind!!

[Barley's SCABS]

Wait until it moves into the cockpit. I think CX is going to have flight safety problems with SCABS in the company.

[Alpha Leader]

BS:

And your definition of a "scab" is.....?? Surely not someone who has accepted an upgrade at the expense of a fired colleague:cool:

[Monty Python]

What Scabs Barley?

Are you on strike? No.
Are you Locked out? No.

I have been both on strike for a cause AND locked out AND subsequently had MY job taken by SCABS who were hired by the company while I and my colleagues were locked out.

The company has since collapsed and some of those scabs now work for CX - they got in before the ban - bully for them, who cares - BUT there are a whole bunch of Good Bastards out there who are out of work, and some haven't seen a pay check for 14 months now. This hiring ban is hurting Good ALPA people who are out of work. It's ridiculous.

Jobs are hard enough to come by these days without the HK union turning on people that they should be welcoming with open arms. You are just playing into managements hands! The 49ers jobs were taken by CX pilots accepting upgrades - there's no disputing that, but now that YOU have basically sealed their fate, you expect others to fall upon their collective career swords to fight your fight when you are not prepared to do anything about it yourselves. It's just bollocks! If any of the 49ers are going to be re-employed, it won't be because the ban "worked", it will be because the union changed their attitude and had constructive conciliatory discussions with management. They sure as hell won't be re-employed because of any court action.

Unfortunately you, the CX pilots, are up against a hard nosed management with far deeper pockets and a much larger arsenal to fight you with.

Call off the ban, welcome new comers and think of more sensible and creative ways to try and have the 49ers re-employed - branding people unfairly as Scabs does your cause no good at all, it just makes you look stupid.

ps. We can all do a search for "scab" and come up with the stuff you have cluttered this forum with lately. How about being a bit more original in future? http://www.stopstart.btinternet.co.uk/sm/pfbbt.gif

[Kaptin M]

A worthwhile post, M.P.

The HKOA and IFALPA need a serious review of the current "Recuitment Ban", and a realisation that every new S/O & F/O could be HKOA members.

A ban on D.E Captains is something that would receive universal support (with the exception of the likes of 411A (ret'd) and (FE/FO tin@ass ).

My personal "feeling" on the IFALPA imposed Ban is that it hasn't been thought through, and was perhaps pushed through Executive using a very broad brush, designed for earlier primitive "warfare".

The current Ban is divisive, immediately disqualifying new joiners from assisting their peers, whilst at the upper end members are - or are about to - leave.
The end result is the HKOA members in the middle - slowly withering.

Management are probably in FULL SUPPORT of this current Ban!!

[6feetunder]

I thought this thread was about a bar fight!

[Kaptin M]

"And if you think people are going to believe new joiners are going to jump on the union bandwagon while still on probation you are somewhat naive."
From the outset, please allow me to say that I have the greatest of respect for you, and your views, frank.

The new-hires aren't dummies - CX wouldn't have taken them on board if they were!! - and so they know that they have to be SEEN to be doing the "right thing" for a while. However if they were allowed to join what was once referred to as a "closed shop" (where EVERY new joiner joined the association during his first week of employment) there would NOT now exist this "Divide and Rule" strategy that TT & Co are playing out.

Senior guys are leaving as and when slots become available to them - new hires are PROHIBITED from joining the HKAOA - leaving a withering middle core. In time, this "core" will become an easy target.

The "Recruitment Ban" would be effective IF the recruiting of D.E. Capts were contingent on getting a paralysed operation up and running - and I feel sure that that is what the IFALPA ban is aimed at. However, your's is a protracted battle at CX, frank, and as much as the shorter term "aggro" might apperar to be causing management some concerns, the longer term BENEFITS are an easy "Divide and Conquer" - one of the oldest strategies employed!

For the record, I have no personal interests in determining who is employed under the current circumstances. However for the LONG TERM survival of CX pilots under SENSIBLE and SAFE work conditions, I strongly urge a review of the current "Recruitment Ban"

- BEFORE it is too late!!

[christep]

6feet under: Not a chance - surely you've realised by now that this whole "Fragrant Harbour" forum has been hijacked by the type of people whom Mrs Thatcher did the rest of us a great service by getting rid of in various other industries?

[Kaptin M]

You mean a sort of HOLOCAUST, JC, where "the type of people whom Mrs Thatcher did the rest of us a great service by getting rid of in various other industries have "hijacked this whole "Fragrant harbour" forum" to exterminate the truth about PEANUTS and BAR FIGHTS! :eek:

[VR-HFX]

6feetunder

The irony is not lost on some of us ....the whole thing has degenerated into a bar fight.

I suggest putting a ring in the middle of the Dakota and running a Friday evening card.

As the gloves haven't really come off , we can stick to Marquis of Queensbury for the moment with the option of switching to Hello Kitty City rules if things get nasty.

If that all sounds a bit too tough, let's just stick to Jelly Wrestlng , West Wagga RSL Club Rules and see who licks who....

[Midnight Rambler]

The reality of the barfight to which this thread refers is that neither of the protagonists was a recent joiner - one from Dec 2000 and one from June 2001. Nothing more than an urelated two-man barroom brawl.

[baygon]

urelated? was that part of the problem?:D

[HotDog]

Yes, they have been pi$$ing into each others pockets for too long.:D :D

[baygon]

Good One HotDog!!!:D :D :D

[King Kong]

Kaptin M- For someone who posts 1.12 times a day average in 756 odd posts you certainly have changed your tune.

Why?

I have researched your history of posts and only had to go back to 29th August and you were calliung all new joiners then "f$@^%$* Scabs". Why are you now deciding to show support for the company and telling the union how ineffective the ban is all of a sudden when last year you couldn't support them enough.

Why you even had a go at me for trying to present an objective and sound logical argument to the debate.

Are you now a different person.
Have you seen the light?

WHY ARE YOU SO INCONSISTENT WITH YOUR OPINION or are you now just realsing the fact that a ban was the most immature tool that the AOA could use that fell right into the hands of the company, such that they must be laughing all the way to flight crew recruitment.

:p

[Kaptin M]

You have DELIBERATELY MIS-quoted me you ape.
Here is the post, intoto*

"Better that (a true union brother) than a F@*&8ng scab, 411A. But don't take Kubota's reference to your handle too personally - I believe he is referring your "intellectual" properties rather than your professioal or physical attributes.

Hopefully this dispute won't drag too far into the new year before it is resolved, and the CX pilots will see their conditions restored, together with a modest salary increase that will put them far ahead of what you were on, 411A.
Shame you aren't just 10 years younger to enjoy these worldwide salary restructurings!"

The "F@*&8ng scab" reference was made wrt 411A & ironbutt's replies - both of whom display distinct "F@*&8ng scab" traits!!

My opinion of the current Ban has remained UNchanged from its inception, and I would hope that it may be able to be refined a little to ASSIST the HKAOA, rather than be a thorn in its side.

[411A]

......"scab traits???".....wotsa' you mean, small tractor? :confused:

[King Kong]

If you spent more time walking around with your head up your @** like you do, I think people would respect you more than with the posts and their inconsistencies of content.

"Refined" is more like a back down. Considering how Adamant and Certain of your distaste to the dispute earlier on.

Love your work K-Emm.


:p :D

[Kaptin M]

By the eloquent standard of your posting, Kong Kong,
If you spent more time walking around with your head up your @** like you do,
can we assume that we are hearing from the UPPER levels of CX management? (As you purport yourself to be!).

.....or the lower levels??!! :D

MY position on the current CX situation is static - probably as is that of many. And as a NON-employee of CX, really has little bearing on the day-to-day nuances of this management-induced, costly, festering sore.

The rest of the world's airlines are now starting to move forward, leaving Cathay Pacific hobbled by a repressive management, focussed solely on justifying its own course of action over the past 10 years - at the expense of the ENTIRE company.

There has NEVER been a case in history, where the "war of attrition" was won by "determined management"!
Conciliation and mutual resolution has ALWAYS provided the most profitable and job-retentive (at both ends of the spectrum) SOLUTION!

Try it - it WORKS!!

[ironbutt57]

If there are scabs at all in this here fight, anybody who occupied a command vacancy created by a -49er is just as much a scab as one who would join off the street....but don't call me one Kaptin M...never have never will....:mad: