SA man gets 16 years in Kabul

[Beech19]

This may be old news, but i heard the story on the news today. Could it be a pilot?

SAfrican jailed in Afghanistan for heroin smuggling
A South African man has been jailed for 16 years in Afghanistan for trying to smuggle out nearly six kilograms (13 pounds) of heroin in bottles for body-building supplements, a court said Tuesday.
The 42-year-old, whose name was not released, was arrested around September last year at Kabul International Airport and his conviction has been upheld by an appeal court, said the Criminal Justice Task Force, an anti-drugs court.
He has been sentenced to 16 years in prison and ordered to pay a fine of 1.05 million Afghanis (21,000 dollars), it said in a statement.
He was found trying to take the heroin out of the country in bottles for body-building supplements, the force's media officer told AFP. Another man had been arrested in South Africa in connection with the case, he said.
Afghanistan is the world's leading producer of opium and heroin.
The government and its international allies are trying to end drugs production by cracking down on traffickers and persuading farmers to grow other crops.

[south coast]

16 years is a LONG tour indeed!

[MungoP]

If he's not segregated I'd say that it amounts to a death sentence... Why do people do such stupid things... ? Oh yes... for money, silly me.

[Der absolute Hammer]

He will be multi lingual upon release?

[grizzled]

Beech 19

Nope, he wasn't/isn't a pilot, but he did spend a lot of time in the air (helicopters) as the head of security in Afghanistan for a major US contractor. It is a sad story indeed -- more so for his family perhaps than for himself. For him it was a (selfish) choice, but his wife and two children back in SA are innocent victims whose lives were also shattered by this.

I have seen the inside of that particular prison (luckily not as an unwilling "guest"). It is truly a harsh, desolate, and filthy place; exactly as one would imagine the worst prisons were a few centuries ago. There is little chance of emerging many years later with any sanity left -- never mind any resemblance to the person who entered the prison years earlier.

The best that come of this is that others thinking of making "a fortune" this way will give their heads a shake. It sounds cliché but we do need to remember, we only get this one chance.

[RobinB]

As sad as it may sound, I'll bet many other "innocent victims" (IE: parents/siblings of adicts) would not feel sorry for a pusher's "inocent victims" - it is sad. Feel squat for the pusher, hope he rots in jail

[Frogman1484]

I'm wondering if the Body Building supplemental was the give away...not sure it will be a common item in Afghanistan! :\

[Gooneybird]

Alot of third world countries would have taken pity on the man and let him off with the death penalty.

Drugs fund terrorism and therefore as bad as I feel for anyone rotting in such a place, he got what he deserved.

[yokebearer]

he got what he deserved

I beg to differ. He was utterly stupid. He got caught. But the reality is he is paying the price put upon us by the stupidity of the average lowest common denominator.

As far as I am concerned the human race by now should be intelligent enough to not need stupid rules against booze, dope, helmets, whores, driving speeds, being seem with a woman in an arab country, pissing in the pool etc etc etc etc.

We should be able to regulate ourselves by now and stop locking away people that essentially cause us no harm just because they cause themselves harm. Its primitive and dumb. And it shows how dim we all still are.

I guess I am just wasting my time............

[yokebearer]

I feel so strongly about this I want to make it more clear:

As far as I am concerned the human race by now should be intelligent enough to not need stupid rules against booze, dope, helmets, whores, driving speeds, being seem with a woman in an arab country, pissing in the pool etc etc etc etc.

We should be able to regulate ourselves by now and stop locking away people that essentially cause us no harm just because they cause themselves harm. Its primitive and dumb. And it shows how dim we all still are.

[Mister Geezer]

yokebearer

What a load of bollocks.... :ugh:

[unstable load]

yokebearer,

Please clarify something for me...
Let's assume for a second that this guy got his drugs out of there and into the town where you live and they made their way to the school where your kids were scholars.


Now, kids being what they are, (ie- influencable, open to peer pressure and dares etc) your kids end up taking said drugs and become addicted or dead,

IS THIS BECAUSE THEY ARE STUPID??

And is it also safe to say that you would not go to the cops and look for justice in any way, because by defenition, YOU would be the logical culprit for being a NEGLECTFUL PARENT and raising those idiots?

Unless you exercised the intelligence you so highly value and refrained from breeding...... dare we hope??

Man, am I ever greatful we are not related........

[B Sousa]

He will be multi lingual upon release?

Ha Ha.......He will just have to be able to answer if he is going to be the Husband or the Wife........:D
as the head of security in Afghanistan for a major US contractor
No doubt DynCorp. Anyway hes lucky they didnt wack off his head which may in fact be easier than 16 years in the Afghan Prison system.

stop locking away people that essentially cause us no harm just because they cause themselves harm.
What is this turkey smoking? You think heroin causes no harm, maybe you should give your 14 year old daughter a fix and send her off with a cab driver to make you some money. What a Moron.

[yokebearer]

Ok Sousa , Load and Geezer - I 'll bite. Why don't you three quickly run off and prosecute all the guys selling booze and cigarettes and fast cars and fatty meat and everything else that can kill your impressionable kids.

You can outlaw drugs as much as you can - its not going to make any difference when you die of something else they didn't outlaw and therefore protected your ass against - it only means some guy dies in a prison on Afghanistan.

Sad

( Oh and one more thing - thanks for the insults when all I did was express my opinion in an open forum. Bet you would'nt call me a moron if you sat next to me in the 340 over the Pacific and I said that I think outlawing drugs is'nt solving the problem. Bet you would actually rub your chin and think twice before you come up with the word moron. We might not be related - but we share the skies and the office. How about you show some respect)

[B Sousa]

that I think outlawing drugs is'nt solving the problem.

Thing is you didnt say that. I agree the "war on drugs" is an economical joke. In the meantime I have enough time in the ditches to tell you I have no love for those who supply agony to others.
So the way you put it earned the term Moron.
There must be a scale on a lot of things after which we say no. Fast cars have speed limits, not for the safety of the Moron inside but for others. Your can have booze, but to be in public creating problems for others while under the influence is a no no. Cigarettes, go ahead and smoke, it only bothers me that I have to pay for your dumb ass when you get Lung Cancer. I think somewhere we may agree on matters, I dont want to be burdened with your problems and you shouldnt be burdened with mine, but in many cases there has to be an authority who will look out for us. Be it the Police or whatever.
The way I understand your "personal freedoms" is that anything goes with no stops. In the real world that does not work.
And why would I want to fly across the pacific, been there years ago, folks didnt like me then either.

[unstable load]

With all due respect, if you publish a post that basically says that the rest of the human race are effectively morons for having laws and law enforcement then you open yourself up to being called names.
It is one of the fundamental things that makes us human that we very often exhibit flawed if not downright crazy judgement. We drink, take drugs, go whoring, drive fast, with and without helmets and the lucky ones get to live and talk about it tomorrow. Darwin's theory takes care of the rest.

That is why we have those laws, to be a check to the more reckless among us and a (often useless) deterrent to the crooks. To suggest self-policing for the human race is nothing short of serious wishful thinking in the extreme.

Had you actually said that you were in favour of outlawing drugs then you may have been taken seriously. What your post said to me was......
" there can be as many of anything available to anyone who is stupid eneough to use them, poor weakling humans, those of us who live on the moral high ground will abstain, thank you".

It has nothing to do with you biting, either, more with the fact that you preach a doctrine of some master species that should be above all the temptations of this sordid little rock we inhabit and then get bent out of shape when people think your opinion is "moronic".
Just out of morbid curiosity, would you advocate a program of eugenics to help form this iron willed superbeing you aspire to, or am I now the one being moronic?

B Sousa in my opinion sums it up pretty well when he says...


There must be a scale on a lot of things after which we say no. but in many cases there has to be an authority who will look out for us. Be it the Police or whatever.



Your statement...
You can outlaw drugs as much as you can - its not going to make any difference when you die of something else they didn't outlaw and therefore protected your ass against - it only means some guy dies in a prison on Afghanistan.

is true in many ways. Yes, I and my impressionable kids will die of something, so will you funnily eneough. It may well even be something that was not legislated against.
My family has a history of cancer and to the best of my knowledge there are no laws protecting me from being given cancer, if you can find a politician who will sponsor those laws, I will sign on immediately. Believe me though when I tell you that until that happens I will definitely regulate myself from acquiring that if I possibly can, because I agree wholeheartedly with you that I would be stupid in the extreme if I went out and willingly got it.

About the only place we have common ground is the bit where some bloke will maybe die in an Afghani jail for not being able to regulate himself.
If he was silly eneough to try and smuggle drugs, then he should count himself lucky it was there, where he has a chance no matter how slim of living through his sentence. He could always have tried it in Singapore or Thailand where his lack of judgement would have been terminal.

[Mister Geezer]

Bet you would'nt call me a moron if you sat next to me in the 340 over the Pacific and I said that I think outlawing drugs is'nt solving the problem. Bet you would actually rub your chin and think twice before you come up with the word moron.

In the interests of CRM calling your colleague a moron is not good etiquette so with that option not available I would probably get out of my seat and take the newspaper and go for a crap. Mind you I never believe what I read in the paper but it would be far more sensible than listening to this twoddle.

[B Sousa]

The more I think about Yoke bearer, the more I equate him with a few uniformed I have known over the years. Everything is so orderly. They have a good job, nice home and a structured family. They have a 365 day schedule, and for gods sake, dont mess with it. Gather the little black bag and go to the airport, do the job come back in a few days and have a list of little orderly things to do before going back to their orderly little world.
In the meantime they have no clue whatsoever about the world around them until something goes haywire within the orderly little family. The good money keeps them away from the common folk so its easy to say they are not "one of us"..

Whats funny is when someone who is lower on the social scale burglarizes their home or robs them, my how they scream for justice. They have been violated to the max by those whom they wish to live free of rules.
And of course those of us who live on the moral high ground will abstain, thank you".
those are the ones who pay through the nose when Daughter gets knocked up or Junior gets caught stealing a car, or the Wifey is at home in bed when Mr orderly comes home, only to find shes taking care of the neighborhood. But its off to church on sunday and all is well on monday.
Certainly the owner of a Glass house throwing big rocks.
I think even Wikepedia has put a name to it. Anal Retentive..
And if he was driving my A340, I would catch another flight.

[perceval]

Mercenary (I know 'security consultant' sounds better these days) gone Drug dealer .Was probably personnal consumption to forget all the people he killed , tortured ...
Amusing demonstration of immanent justice .

[B Sousa]

Was probably personnal consumption to forget all the people he killed , tortured ...


Come Perceval, your also wandering a bit. Perhaps you have not seen what the Tango Hotels do.......Anyway if the amount was for personal consumption it was probably about two lifetimes worth. You need a ride across the Pacific in an A340

[yokebearer]

Ok so now I am anally retentive and my life is perfectly structured. My mind boggles at the conclusions you guys can jump to. My sin is that I think humans should and can be more clever than they are and that punishing them by locking them up for a lifetime for stupidity is not achieving much....

By the - I did my time in Paki/Afghanistan in a King Air. And Sierra Leone, and the Congo. Had a family member murdered on his farm.

All for locking up some and even the death penalty.

Still not convinced locking up/executing stupid drug mules achieves much.

To Sousa - Buddy you seem a bit angry. The language you use is offensive and uncalled for. The sad thing is we probably know each other.....

[Doodlebug2]

The guy deserves all he gets!

[perceval]

with the country and his 'job' , am wondering if he'll actually serve that sentence or buy his way out . Where was he trying to get the stuff to anyway ? South ?

[unstable load]

God point Perceval.

As for the where to for the product, anywhere is as bad.

On the bright side, maybe BECAUSE of his job, he may not get out at all...

[flyems]

Mercenary (I know 'security consultant' sounds better these days) gone Drug dealer .Was probably personnal consumption to forget all the people he killed , tortured ...
Amusing demonstration of immanent justice .

his 'job'

Presume you know the guy? Presume you have some insight to his contract, and that of his employer? Do you actually know what he was employed to do there?

You are rather condescending about the person, I presume you’ve never been on the wrong side of the law? Never flown outside of the W&B envelope of an aircraft? Never pushed WX minima at any time? Never considered that those things kill people? Are you taking drugs to soothe your conscience?

[B Sousa]

To Sousa - Buddy you seem a bit angry. The language you use is offensive and uncalled for. The sad thing is we probably know each other.....

There is that Possibility. My fathers name surname was Sousa, not familiar with the Yoke bearer family.
We differ on the term Offensive. That language is just a polite way of saying we disagree. We cannot post offensive language here as this is a "sensitive" website. I do get a bit Abrupt at times, but Im sure you wil get over it. My posts serve the purpose, they get your attention.

Never flown outside of the W&B envelope of an aircraft? Never pushed WX minima at any time?
Slow down a bit, understand the point but lets not equate your post with six Kilos of Heroin.
I can only assume that Yoke Bearer has not had some close relative hooked on that. What they do to get that next fix.

Still not convinced locking up/executing stupid drug mules achieves much.



Au Contrare. It curbs recidivism........

[flyems]

Sensitivity Disclaimer: This post is written with no one person in mind, rather a general expression of my point of view...

Slow down a bit, understand the point but lets not equate your post with six Kilos of Heroin.


All a matter of relativity isn't it?

I'm always amazed at how easy it is to justify some potentially fatal transgressions of the law, and then preach from a moral high ground about other perceived fatal transgressions of the law, surely all potentially fatal transgressions of the law should be dealt with equally?

Separate to my previous statement, we could argue extensively about the validity of laws and their application, some would like to see laws pertaining to habit forming substances reversed to the extend that governments generate income from them as opposed to throwing large amounts of cash at curbing it with very little demonstrable effect.

I put it to you that addiction to heroin is no worse than addiction to other substances, I will refer to alcohol as an example. Cynically there seems to be a quiet acquiesce from most about alcohol, the biggest silence from those that benefit from it by means of tax collections... And before I get the lecture about the horrors of 'drugs', I've seen the sad results of all types of addictions first hand...

[unstable load]

surely all potentially fatal transgressions of the law should be dealt with equally?



Ideally, yes! Sadly due to various reasons, not least that benefit from it by means of tax collectionsamong others, it is highly unlikely.


I put it to you that addiction to heroin is no worse than addiction to other substances, I will refer to alcohol as an example.

and I will concur, wholeheartedly, BUT (as there always is) it is still way beyond the expectations of even the most permissive of us to expect that We should be able to regulate ourselves by now.

That day is in all honesty in the waay distant future and most likely nothing more that wishful thinking. Yes, it's a sad prospect that we are so fallible, but quite honestly that is the one thing that guarantees us uniqueness as human beings and anyone who seeks to standardise that particular foible is being foolhardy in the extreme.

Say for example it happens, what will we do with all those people who are in law enforcement right now, and where will the likes of GWB get a scapegoat to allow them to flex their muscles and go off and slap on the pipi?
We will degrade to being a species of sheep that is devoid of what makes us unique in the first place.
I for one do not want to be around when that day dawns.:=

[B Sousa]

I put it to you that addiction to heroin is no worse than addiction to other substances,

Maybe but no prize on that. There is one sidebar to the difference. Alcohol addictions runs at the most $25/day Heroin, maybe $300-400/day. NOW how do you think a heroin user is going to support that habit.

The point I get from Yoke bearer is that everything is OK, but someone else must pay for it. In this case if he supports it, let him pay, I certainly dont want too. Be it taxes or loss of property to support their habits.

Its nice to sit on that lofty spot and determine whats good for other people. Seems to be a lot of that and probably even more now that America has capitulated. I love it when all of a sudden its in their backyard and then listen to the noise.

As to the guy in Kabul, it will be interesting to see if he makes 16 years or bribes his way out. Im sure those who were in his chain of distribution could care less and certainly wont be sending him Red Cross packages anytime soon. His position has been replaced.

One other thing since we are beating this to death is about the "War on Drugs" which is a total failure by any standards. The U.S. crying the loudest of course. They are in Afghanistan and have plenty of power there, yet the Heroin exports have increased since their arrival. Go figure on that one. Its all about the money.....

[flyems]

most $25/day Heroin, maybe $300-400/day

In some 'dry' countries $25 of alcohol a day would not touch sides.... In Afghanistan $300-400/day of heroin would keep many people supplied with the stuff...

NOW how do you think a heroin user is going to support that habit

How do we support our habit of flying? How does a gambling addict support his habit? How does an alcoholic support his habit in a 'dry' country? There seems to be this stereotype that all habit forming substance users are out there to steal and pilfer and kill, deal with the person, not the substance... Should all alcohol sales be banned because of alcoholics? Should all tobacco sales be banned because people are addicted to nicotine? Should all casinos/horse racing be banned because of gambling addicts? Again, as a society we need to deal with the people, not the reason, if I am a responsible gambler/drinker, why should I be punished because of the small portion of people that are unable to do so responsibly? And yes, I am suggesting that there are responsible 'drug' users out there...

Its nice to sit on that lofty spot and determine whats good for other people

Exactly my point, to expand on that, sitting in a lofty spot with a glass of wine in your hand deciding which habit forming substance is acceptable or not...

As to the guy in Kabul, it will be interesting to see if he makes 16 years or bribes his way out

Reality is that anyone, regardless of the reason for their visit, will make an attempt to bribe their way out of third/developing world institutions of that kind.

Heroin exports have increased since their arrival

They're between a rock and a hard place in terms of heroin... The initial drive was to stop all production, but in doing so you are taking the livelihood away from the farmers, which is not a bright idea unless you can provide them with an alternate income... Guess when the 'enemy' then came along and promised the farmers unlimited production in exchange for support for the cause, it wasn't difficult to figure the way ahead...

[B Sousa]

How do we support our habit of flying?

Enough with the dodge. Could care less if the monetary amount in Afghanistan is different. Thats where the source lies. In the states if someone has a habit like that, they rob, steal and kill for that $3-400/day. Theres where we have the problem. Now you would prefer to legalize it so they all run around stoned. Maybe like drive head on into you while your out with the family? It dont work that way in life and I dont want to be burdened with their dumb a55. If the Government provides for them, then its me who foots the bill. I have no use for those folks. Take pity on them if you will, not me. Life is all about choices and if you make bad ones, you should have to live with them. I live with mine. ( actually she lives with her new husband)

Should all alcohol sales be banned because of alcoholics? Should all tobacco sales be banned because people are addicted to nicotine? Should all casinos/horse racing be banned because of gambling addicts?


OK, here we go again, cars because there are bad drivers?? Motorcycles?? Which reminds me some places require helmets. Why is that? Because if your dumb a55 gets in an accident and all of a sudden you become Mr Veggie head, whos going to pay for you? Thats right the rest of us. So wear your dam helmet. Then it decreases our odds of being burdened.
Alcohol, Tobacco, Horse racing are much less of a burden on the general population. Heroin IS NOT.

but in doing so you are taking the livelihood away from the farmers, which is not a bright idea unless you can provide them with an alternate income...

Heard that and I somewhat understand its a political football. Thats the extent of my understanding. You want it outlawed then destroy it. Farmers then turn bad guys, cull the herd. Sounds pretty harsh to many but thats life. It would be nice to be able to say they can grow roses or some other BS but in that terrain I dont know the possibilities. Either way its a problem, curb it OR just say F' it everything is fair game. That be the case Im going to grow some in the backyard along with some Coke plants and get rich. You may laugh but in many years working around the Narcotics field we did have some Opium Poppies growing in backyards in the states. Probably more now.

sitting in a lofty spot with a glass of wine in your hand deciding which habit forming substance is acceptable or not...

Your not going to win a prize with that either, I dont make the decisions. Hopefully they are made by someone a bit more level headed..ha ha

I think we have beat this dead horse alive again and one thing it does prove is there is by no means an easy answer, only opinions.