This will be interesting if it comes off, especially if other airlines follow the same track. TIBA anyone?


Virgin in holding pattern, sends bill to air traffic control | theage.com.au (http://business.theage.com.au/business/virgin-in-holding-pattern-sends-bill-to-air-traffic-control-20081006-4v4k.html)

Good luck to them. The shame of it is that they will likely spend another $500k in lawyers fees to get it.

It's about time. As there seems to be no accountability at AsA, and the only thing they understand is the bottom line, then speak to them thru the bottom line.

Can the staff do the same- perhaps engage a solicitor to speak to AsA thru it's bottom line and sue for slander? This wasnt industrial action, and calling sick leave "unwarranted" must surely be libellous? Especially if 2 of the 3 with illness are not in the union? How can it be orchestrated industrial action? At the very least, it will generate media attention and focus the spotlight on the real reason the system is collapsing. What's good for the goose....

Bout bloody time. This debacle has been so badly handled for so long, none of us want to see an accident or incident. The precipitate of the staff shortages has for too long been passed onto the controller(O/time and increased responsibilities), the levels of stress realized by those at the coal face must have increased.................perhaps now with a dollar value(possible litigation from operators) the management at the highest level will appreciate that an improvement of T & C's will retain staff and atract new recruits.
As a pilot on high capacity rpt I don't blame the controllers at all. Perhaps some are refusing the O'time(that should be their right), perhaps some are also calling in sick.....................somewhat dubious but given how hamstrung Unions are in these workchoices environments, understandable.
Good on VB for forcing some economic light to be shone on this debacle.

Only half a million........ sounds like VB are going halves!

Deduct it from their account if they refuse to pay!

So G.R. The chooks may be coming home to roost!

I saw first hand the way this bloke handled Industrial relations at a previous position. Whilst he saw the bottom line as his main focus, unfortunately, it was his only focus!

We all know that ATC are going through a parallel situation to that of professional pilots. You can't train these people overnight. The demands and technicalities of the job require a fairly narrow band of candidate, and you are less likely to attract enough of these candidates unless you offer a competitive level of T&C's. Pretty simple really.

ATC are now conducting briefings to airline operations staff, and the outlook is grim. Despite the slanderous inuendo of ASA management, the fact remains there are simply not enough controllers. Retirements and the exodus to better paying positions overseas will send this crisis to a new level.

Get ready for big delays boys and girls!

Looks like AsA needs to learn the hard way as well that OT is not the way to run a business.
Look what happened when the QF engineers had an OT ban, the system crumbled, and that was without any drastic industrial action.

AsA must also be sailing very close to the wind with there manpower and now it is too little too late. Hopefully VB will succeed with there claim and show the moronic bean counters that they are wrong again.

Maybe other airlines can join up and do a 'class' action against ASA.

Then maybe the crews can form one too, for the braindamage of getting allocated the runway with the most quartering tailwind or crosswind when a perfectly good into wind runway is available.:ugh:

This econimic melt down is only going to improve our T & C's in the long run. You think about it, as we navigate these troubled times, more people will be leave the industry, the terms and conditions for Contollers and Pilots will get worse in the short term, even less young kids will choose aviation as a career choise because of the sh^t T & C's and when we come out the other side of this mess and the economy rockets again, there will be even less pilots, less ATC personel and even less Engineers. I reckon all this mess is fantastic, the industry will have marketed itself out of technical people.

Australia needs approximately another 7000 pilots by 2020, no hope! I could only imagine how many Engineers and ATC's are needed. SHOW ME THE MONEY!

"Would anyone like popcorn or fairy floss while they watch this show".

dirty deeds.

That is probably the most straight forward and accurate description of the state of the professional labour market (ATC & Pilot) we are likely to hear. It continues to amaze me that air operators (with the exception of perhaps Surveilance Australia) and ASA cannot come to terms with the reality of the situation. All we need now is a little patience.

Can't say they haven't been warned!

Well, surely its only a matter of time?

TFN (aka ASA CEO, albeit by title only) would be furiously doing the sums.

250 managers / 500k = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

750 ATC / 500k = $$$$$$$

Whats the better option, and those ATC's caused this problem anyway!! The invoice is in the mail.

Wait for it though, ASA management will be on that spin bike the thing will be doing 3000 RPM as they attempt to shift blame, lets see what happens in that regard!

What goes around, comes around

BgTFN because you :mad: me

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...and when we come out the other side of this mess and the economy rockets again...

Not going to happen... it's economic Armageddon... the end of the Western World as we know it. :{

To borrow the words of one economist, "there is no light at the end of the tunnel... it's a cave."

I take it us taxpayers are footing the bill?

it does not matter who is footing the bill ... they will loose! :ooh: whoever steps in after the 'event' will win big time :E

AsA have a tight grip on their pennies, ATC will get a payrise before VOZ get any money.

But on the thought, does that mean I can charge VOZ for every delay that effects me due to their lack of staff (crew etc)?

Virgin OPS have to learn something: Curfew Dispensations.

Pick up the phone, call the Department, get one for every delay because it's THEIR FAULT.

Qantas do it, so why don't you?

And ask them what they think of TFN and post the response back here please.

Will Virgin be seeking compensation from the BOM for making the wind blow from the West all day and restricting OPS to one runway?

And will they be refunding the fuel surcharge now the Oil Price is below $90?

Qantas are it would appear, on some international services.

Anyone know if Brisbane Tower is short staffed? I may be after a job there at some point in the near future. That or Cooly.

Dammm....I cannot resist this....:E


bob55 wrote:

Anyone know if Brisbane Tower is short staffed? I may be after a job there at some point in the near future. That or Cooly.

NO, BNE tower is not short staffed, they use staff of normal height.

Short staff need not apply... (some OH&S thing about being able to see out the windows.....)

ROFLMAO!!!!!!

:D:D:D:D

Something about 'normal' weight too..........

One must be able to climb the stairs without having to report in 'sick' at the top....

n'est ce pas??:}

Regards

Another article on Virgin's $500,000 claim:

e-Travel Blackboard: Virgin Blue Bills Taxpayers $500,000 after Feud Caused Flight Delays (http://www.etravelblackboard.com/showarticle.asp?id=83204&nav=130)

Perhaps, Ms Heather Jeffery, head of corporate affairs for Virgin Blue, you could get off your lazy bum and do a little research rather than fanning the flames with sarcastic gems such as:

"It's hard to tell if there is a mystery virus that attacks air traffic controllers en mass on peak air traffic days....."

and:

".....Sydney can't cope with its inbound and outbound traffic."

Trust me, you're not doing ANYONE any favours with those sorts of comments.

How about I get the ball rolling in bringing you out of your all-knowing, all-seeing corporate stratosphere by giving you some real world education and figures:

Fifteen fewer controllers in a workforce of 70-odd, combined with 5000 extra movements per month means somethings gotta give!!!

http://www.civilair.asn.au/joomla/images/stories/sy_atc_prod.jpg

But JH says there has been no productivity increase...

Ada
Don't be to worried about Virgin HR
If they are against you it means every VB pilot is probably with you!

But JH says there has been no productivity increase...

Some controllers in Melbourne still believe that JH is the controller's friend.

That's good to here, ozbiggles, because I know that most controllers are pretty upset that the whole industry seems to be headed down the same slippery management cost-cutting, safety-jeopardising slope of greed, so I guess that means we're behind you too!

That frightens the hell out of me too, Quokka.