V Australia Operations DELAYED TO FEB09

[Sunstar320]

V Australia delayed by Boeing strike

Virgin Blue has just announced that ongoing strike action at Boeing's Seattle plant will delay the launch of its long-haul international airline V Australia.

V Australia was meant to launch on 15 Dec, but has now issued a revised launch date of 28 Feb.

Alternative travel arrangements will be offered to all guests booked for travel in the Christmas/New Year period.

Travel Daily

Virgin Blue: Boeing strike delays service launch
Virgin Blue Holdings Ltd , Australia's second-biggest airline, said on Thursday it had delayed the launch of its new long-haul service V Australia by over two months due to a strike at aircraft maker Boeing.

Virgin, whose shares have been battered due to high fuel prices along with other airlines, has advised its customers to make alternative travel arrangements.
"Boeing advised its customers, including V Australia, that it cannot predict the duration of the dispute and therefore cannot guarantee the delivery date of the airline's launch aircraft," Virgin Blue said in a statement.
The airline said the revised launch date for V Australia, which will provide flights to the United States, was Feb. 28, 2009.
Virgin shares were up 1.4 percent at A$0.37 in a flat overall market . The stock is down about 82 percent in 2008, compared with a 24 percent fall in the benchmark index.
Virgin had planned daily flights between Sydney and Los Angeles from December after Australia and the United States opened up trans-Pacific air routes between the two countries in February.
V Australia will become the second Australian airline after Qantas Airways Ltd to fly the route.
Reuters
Some people will be screaming over this one

Not good news...Compensation anyone:{

[ANstar]

I wonder how much boeing will have to pay in compo!

[KRUSTY 34]

What about wages for existing (VA) staff?

Any news on that front?

[Wingspar]

Like QF with the 787 no compo for industrial action.

[Mr.Buzzy]

Strike?...... my bum!

bbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[mrs nomer]

How convenient - Might give BG some time to contemplate his navel and rethink where the VB group is headed.:ugh:

[lc_461]

What a lovely Christmas present for QF and UA... If loads were good on VA, Qantas's cabins will now be 100% over the christmas period...

[Teal]

Like QF with the 787 no compo for industrial action.QF was however compensated some $100 million by Airbus in 2006 for production delays in the A380. It probably comes down to the wording in the agreements. In any event, it no doubt helped very nicely with that year's bonuses to the overworked/underpaid execs....:rolleyes:

[Jabawocky]

Hey Buzzy.......Strike .... your bum with a wooden spoon mate!

Maybe you have missed some of my posts from the last few weeks on a couple of threads here.

Strike is on and it is 4 weeks in (lost count) and I can assure you only a handful (count on one hand) of the folk on the lines have been turning up for work.

After 46 days I think it is Boeing are exempt of penalties according to their contracts so another 20 days suits them fine. Aat this point Boeing aint budging a bit and the IAM idiots have lead their members on a hiding to nothing. Even if Boeing gave in today, they would be so far down the tube for lost wages and benefits that the gains they were arguing over were a waste of time.

As for the first V Oz.... a reminder of where it is right now, and where it is staying! So two months delay is optomistic in the least!

Jhttp://file040b.bebo.com/6/large/2008/09/22/22/4525920200a8955157782l.jpg

[CorporalGlideFoot]

Have VOZ got the AOC yet? Regardless all Boeing operators haave a delay on delivery. Other airlines have aircraft parked on the line waiting small mods and other items to be installed. The problem for VOZ is the marketing nightmare it now faces to lure those pax who were giving it a go to come back after this drama. Most people hate doing things twice so we will see in the long run. On the up side the A/C looks great.........At the end of the day the travelling public want cheap fares and an airline/aircraft that does what it says it will. But in this day and age even that is few and far between. Good luck.

[wirgin blew]

What sort of costs will be incurred with this waiting around? You can't really do much with the TC & CC other than keep on training. Surely someone has a spare plane at the moment to wet lease? ILFC, Atlantic or someone else?

Is BG looking at cutting VOZ altogether? He has often said that he likes to keep the business separate so that if they aren't working it won't affect VB. The frames that they have purchased could be sold to other airlines without to much of a fuss.

Starting the airline next year before Easter might be ok but then you have a bit of a wait until US Summer 09. Can VB afford to carry VOZ in the current economic climate.

What if the strike lasts until Easter next year, then what?

Seems to me that this is something that should be postponed for at least 5 years. There is no guarantee that what they have done in the US tonight will fix any of the problems over there. It still may get worse before it gets better.

[greenslopes]

Well if nothing else it gives the Chiefs an extra couple of months in gauging the resilience of U.S economy before actually commencing........interesting six months ahead.

[high talker]

Any idea what they will offer the pax that were booked pre 28th of Feb. Will it be a straight refund or will there be a sweetner to come back.

[LM82]

Does anyone know what if anything is going on with the october interviews? I was invited for various dates in october but had to decline for personal reasons but i do know of a few people that are/were going:confused:

anybody going for an interview in October heard anything? and even if you got in now it would be a long wait for a start date!

i am aware of the other thread about voz just after an honest answer not trying to start world war 3:}

high_talker i found this on their website

Guests who rebook on V Australia on or after 1 March, 2009 will be reaccommodated on their choice of flights. As a gesture of goodwill we would also provide a $200 voucher for travel on Virgin Blue’s Australian network.
A full refund, if our Guests prefer.
An alternative flight on another airline, arranged at our expense, if our Guests prefer.

[International Trader]

To delay is the second best decision that they could have made.
No 1 would be to forget all about it!

[airtags]

agree - although the Boeing delays are not revelations and to pin the decision entirely on Boeing is a little too much spin.

Wirgen makes a good point about leasing alternate airframes - however I maintain that the yeilds from the PAc route have declined (& will continue to for all carriers) and the continuing contraction in the US market means an outbound revenue strategy for V.

For the drivers who are waiting/hoping - along with the CC, it's sad news.

On the upside it may actually herald the start of VB actually doing something to preserve its business and get it back on track - which is good for the domestic LCC market.

[Buster Hyman]

Not a big fan of the grinning idiot & his little mate out here but...I kinda feel for those that were working hard in the background, at the coalface, trying to get her up & running!:(

[JetRacer]

LM82 wrote:

An alternative flight on another airline, arranged at our expense, if our Guests prefer.

First Class if you don't mind! haha :ok: :}:{

[Chimbu chuckles]

I think what was done in the US last night is little more than nothing meaningful...if not the completely wrong action. How many times have we seen politicians get it right let alone when they act in such manic haste.

You'd have to be nuts to believe the de leveraging that is gathering pace in much of the world economy won't lead to recession and, as a result, a really bad time to be starting an operation like Voz to the epicenter of that de leveraging...but what would I know, I is just a drivman bilong balus.:ugh:

As someone said above...2013 might be a better bet. I read in the last few days that the US has suffered credit crunches 16 times in its history and every time it was followed by recession that lasted on average 2 years. 2009 is going to be an interesting year...Annus Horribilis anyone?

[Angle of Attack]

Well C.C,

Yes Bring on the Credit Crunch pain, its caused by the idiots in the finance system, but at the end of the day its caused by us idiots not revolting against their crap ways! If the publiuc dont revolt thn let's be their slave, fools...

[QF22]

Anyway if push comes to shove it would be an ezi conversion from VOz to QF ! Wipe off a few stars and wack on a white rat and away you go!
Cheers

[RYAN TCAD]

Gees I'm glad i didn't sign up for this gig. I wonder what happens to the poor mob who have left their jobs with pending start dates or have just started their training?

Will they continue to be paid a training wage?

OUCH!

[Habster]

Angle of Atack,

..Bring on the credit crunch...
...I'm not sure what you do but the first people affected (and already are) will be those who can't afford it nor are responsible for this situation

[Track Direct]

Could be a lot of people wanting their old jobs back...:E

[Howard Hughes]

Why would they? Take your triple 7 rating and head off to the lucrative Asian contract market! For those unlucky enough to be left with a co-pilot rating, spend a few dollars and have it upgraded to command, that's what I would be doing! Probably plenty of training slots available at Silverwater now...:eek:

[hongkongfooey]

I wonder what happens to the poor mob who have left their jobs with pending start dates or have just started their training?

Will they continue to be paid a training wage?V good question ( pardon the pun ) anyone care to comment ?, or is it like the salary package....a little embarassing :confused:


Why would they? Take your triple 7 rating and head off to the lucrative Asian contract market! For those unlucky enough to be left with a co-pilot rating, spend a few dollars and have it upgraded to command, that's what I would be doing! Probably plenty of training slots available at Silverwater nowProbably not much help to the ( majority ? ) of guys/gals with low or no jet experience and zero widebody : EG

Korean Airlines : 300+ on type, 1000+ airline transport, flown on type in last 12 months. Capatins : same plus 2000+ on airline transport.

Asiana: Captain, 500PIC on type, 1000 on type, 7000+ minimum. Effo min 500 on type

Vietnam : Captain, 5000hrs, 2000PIC, 500+PIC 777 international ops. F/O 500 hrs on type.

I would suspect the people with these requirements have been O/S and don't want to go back, the rest will not meet them.

Sincerely hope VA look after the drivers, but not holding my breath :hmm:

[Kangaroo Court]

Those are published mins there Phooey. They have taken much less than that. I had a wet 737 type out of Dallas and was offered an Asian job on the spot.

Where are V Australia doing the 777 type at?

[hongkongfooey]

Can tell you from experience ( have a few 1000 narrow body command hours and have applied for widebody jobs ) there is a big difference between being hired for narrow body and wide body L/H with little or no experience.
Also the Yanks and oil prices have pretty much but the kaybosh on any " pilot shortage ", over here at least.

[Howard Hughes]

Where are V Australia doing the 777 type at?
CAE at Silverwater in Sydney!

[LM82]

From the website.....

Only Cruise Relief First Officers receive a training salary (80% of salary). [b]All others are on full pay from joining date[b/]. The CRFO training salary is only for the period of the ground school. [b]Full salary will be instated on [u]successful completion of the simulator endorsement[b/][u/].

Not sure if thats what is actually happening but its there on the site.:ok:

[LM82]

before anyone states the obvious

i stuffed up the vB code but i cant get back into the edit page:\

[dirty deeds]

I heard VAUS was telling CRZ F/O's to seek interim employment. Once interim employment was obtained, the F/O was to tell VAUS so the new employer would pay the pilots salary to VAUS and then VAUS would then make up the difference for the VAUS salary. :D:D:D

I dont even reckon VAUS will get up and running. I reckon the finance companies cannot even source cash for the finance of the 777? Good luck to those that have left their employment to work for VAUS, I would be looking for a new job if I was you, and doing it now!

I don't think VB will be far behind either, please take leave, leave without pay etc etc. I would not like to be in the last 1/3 of the seniority list, oh sorry, start date list. Things are going to get ugly lads, time to get the CV and log book up to date. Etihad, here we come? I think Camp Davidian have the FBI at the gates!:sad::sad:

[greenslopes]

It just doesn't make sense. I mean in these times where airlines are trying to downsize surely V Oz could wet lease a 777 till their own aircraft are complete..........................are there parts of the picture obscured from our vision.......................is the intent not to operate V Oz at all ?

[Jabawocky]

Greenslopes

I think the problem your theory has is ....... there are no 777-300ERs available anywhere, and if there were, they would be shagged!

At present they are the holy grail in airframes. Downturn or not!

J:ok:

[Led Zeppelin]

Something has to give here - I just can't see VA and VB/PB surviving together.

You would have to ask just what is going on in the "Brisbane Bunker". Are they totally deluded and oblivious to reality ???

Better to cut and run now and save what they can of the VB operation. That's if it's not already too late. Share price closed today at 33 cents.

VB staff certainly don't deserve to go through the same fate that AN suffered back in 2001.

[Kangaroo Court]

I don't know about that...I saw a full terminal in Mascot the other day and the loads looked pretty good on the DJ side of the terminal. I think all of the loads looked good for everyone.

Whether or not that continues is another matter. I flew down on one of the new Eastern Q-400s from Port Macquarie and it was a very nice ride. The Virgin Embraer was full at that end too.

What's the upgrade time on the Q-400? That seems like a nice way to not suffer jet-lag and raise the children.

[ratpoison]

Etihad, here we come?
Surely, you can't be serious !:confused:

[PammyAnderson]

Apparently with this delay V australia mangement are going ahead with its plan to get pilots on a common EBA with Cabin Crew.
Vote could be as early as next week in a hope to cash in on worry about security with the current delay.

Please all pilots at V australia. Think about it. You will be out numbered approx 6 - 1. Cabin Crew will have complete voting power on ALL YOUR future pay, CPI, SUPER , Lifestyle (including days off, on call, Work patterns), Promotions and progression, everything !!!

INSANE !. I have nothing against CC. But they are NOT pilots. they do not have the responsibilty or qualifications of pilots. They should have NO say in a pilots conditions. As we should not on there's.

Vote NO guys. Once it is done that's it for ever.

[campdoag]

Pammy............ you cant possibly be serious!!!!! How can the two roles even be compared....... Not to take anything away from cabin crew but i don't see them paying close to 100k for their professional repeat professional qualification.........

wow i'm just speechless.......


hang on a minute.. this must be a windup!!

haha you nearly got me!!

[Wiley]

A common EBA? Puts a whole new spin on the old "divide and conquer" adage, doesn't it? If not quite "unite and conquer", the "lump 'em all in together in one common pool where the pilots will be in a quite small minority" ploy is quite brilliant (from a management perspective at least). If history is anything to go by with other Sydney-based airlines, within a few years, the 'suck a lemon at sign on' brigade will hold sway among the female CC, and you-all-know-who-I-mean brigade will dominate the male CC... and the VA pilots will be (hoping I'm not misunderstood by my wildly mixed metaphors) - totally screwed.

[PammyAnderson]

NO its no a joke at all and these are the pays direct from the new contract which has just been released. Cabin Crew making more than a pilot.....
This is just the start.

REMUNERATION
18. SALARY
18.1 If you are a full-time Employee, your starting salary will be no less than the applicable salary set out below:
Classification Salary
Check and Training Captain $175,000 per year plus an additional 16% of this
amount for time spent performing check and/or training duties.
Training Captain $175,000 per year plus an additional 10% of this amount for time spent performing training duties.
Captain $175,000 per year.
8.
First Officer $114,000 per year.
Cruise Relief First Officer (with Airline Transport Pilot’s
Licence) $42,800 per year up to the successful completion of simulator checks and then $53,500 per year thereafter.
Cruise Relief First Officer (with Commercial Pilot’s Licence)
$38,220 per year up to the successful completion of simulator checks and then $47,775 per year thereafter.

Flight Manager $59,000 per year.
Cabin Leader $49,000 per year.
Cabin Crew (Level 2) $40,000 per year (following satisfactory performance in Level 1 after 12 months’ service).
Cabin Crew (Level 1) $37,500 per year.
18.2 If you are a part-time Employee or employed on flexible work arrangements, you will be paid a pro-rata salary based on the above full-time salaries.
18.3 Your salary will be reviewed annually along with your progress and development needs.

[Howard Hughes]

I'm certainly no expert on cabin crew salaries, but they look very light on to me!:ooh:

[Visual Landing]

Pammy
You are correct. I have read the entire document and it and the whole concept are absolutely disgracefull. A great coup by management if the vote gets up though.

[kellykelpie]

I wouldn't necessarily say no to the cabin crew having some part of the negotiating for flight crew. I remember at a previous airline (legacy carrier) the cabin crew got a lot of the benefits we didn't. This was because they were better negotiators and had a stronger union.

Mrs Kellykelpie put it down to "women knowing what they want and not accepting any less" (sorry to the male cabin crew).

[Stubby]

Hey Dirty Deeds, maybe you could be a little less negative, the VB loads are good and despite the current world economic climate the company is doing alright, still posting profits etc, I am sick and tired reading all this negative talk on this forum, for once it would be nice if more pilots were a lot more thankfull for what they have and start to talk up there company and industry instead of always trying to drag it down :ugh::ugh:

[dirty deeds]

Hay Stubby,

I like my job, I reckon its a good job and I am grateful for the experience. But once you have been lied to enough, you will work it out, or maybe I just don't like a good slapping like some do! I am only calling what I see, and what I see is a "boarding pass" to a "perfect storm" where our "EMT" may not like the look of the "KPI", buts thats ok because we will "GO LIVE" on the "PREMIUM ECONOMY" and develop a new "MATRIX" to watch on the "LIVE TO AIR" and reep the benfits of a "NEW WORLD CARRIER".

Great job Stubby, just run by some very funny people.

[Getzo]

If it goes to the vote, it will be a yes vote just like the last vote:ugh:
Wake up people:rolleyes:

86,'er

[dirty deeds]

They cannot wake up Getzo, they are pilots. They vote yes at the drop of a hat, all you have to do is scare them or threaten them. The cabin crew will out vote them anyway. This is a total disgrace!:mad::mad::mad:

[DUXNUTZ]

This so-called occupation is truly depressing the daylights out of me. Wonder how many F/A's lived in some of the hell holes some of the pilots have and now earn more than they do.

Its all very sad.

[Chadzat]

I completely agree DUXNUTZ. I have followed these VA threads on proon for quite a while just seeing how it would all pan out- but if those figures posted above are true- then the people in charge of setting those amounts need to have their heads read!! If cruise F/O pilots ( more so than FO's or Capts) accept those conditions then they need their heads read even more!!

So you have just spent upwards of 60K MINIMUM to get a CPL, busted your guts to get 1000 hours or whatever you need as minimum for a cruise F/O with CPL only, and then you get paid as much as a JUNIOR Flight Attendant- to act as a tech crew on one of the most advanced heavy jet aircraft in the world. All I can say is....what a deal! :ugh:

Pilot prostitution has hit new lows. From those of us who WERE planning on getting into jet jobs eventually, I heartily thank those who are accepting these conditions for making sure that these conditions become the NEW NORM in the future. :yuk:

[KRUSTY 34]

Careful Chadzat.

There are some that would take offence to that sort of talk. Especially if you have the gall to criticise, but not applied!

Strange though, they seemed to have gone quiet lately?

[Getzo]

151153012
Safety Net Agreement 2008
i
AGREEMENT OBJECTIVES AND APPLICATION 1
1. TITLE 1
2. PARTIES 1
3. APPLICATION 1
4. HOW WE WILL WORK TOGETHER 2
5. DURATION 3
6. CONSULTATIVE COMMITTEE 3
7. NO EXTRA CLAIMS 3
OPERATIONAL PROVISIONS 4
8. EMPLOYMENT FLEXIBILITY 4
9. CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT 4
10. TRAINING AND INDUCTION 5
11. REPORTING 5
12. DUTIES 6
13. HOURS OF WORK 6
14. ROSTERS 7
15. MANUALS AND OPERATIONAL DOCUMENTATION 7
16. CONTACTING YOU 7
17. DAYS OFF 7
REMUNERATION 7
18. SALARY 7
19. INCENTIVE/PROFIT SHARE 8
20. SUPERANNUATION 9
21. WHAT YOUR SALARY COVERS 9
22. PAYMENT OF SALARY 9
HOME BASE AND OVERNIGHT ARRANGEMENTS 9
23. HOME BASE 9
ii.
24. ACCOMMODATION 9
25. OVERNIGHT MEAL AND INCIDENTAL ALLOWANCES 9
LEAVE 10
26. ANNUAL LEAVE 10
27. PERSONAL/CARER’S LEAVE 10
28. URTI LEAVE 11
29. PARENTAL LEAVE 11
30. LONG SERVICE LEAVE 11
31. UNPAID CARER’S LEAVE AND PAID COMPASSIONATE LEAVE 11
32. CONTINUITY OF SERVICE AND LEAVE ACCRUALS 11
REGULATORY MATTERS 12
33. CASA REGULATIONS 12
34. ASIC 12
35. PASSPORTS AND VISAS 12
36. INDEMNITY 12
HEALTH AND SAFETY 12
37. SAFETY AT WORK 12
38. HEALTH AND FITNESS 13
PERFORMANCE 13
39. MANAGING PERFORMANCE 13
FAIR TREATMENT PROCESS 13
40. PROCESS 13
41. ROLE OF THE AIRC OR AGREED THIRD PARTY 14
42. YOUR RIGHTS DURING THE PROCESS 15
43. CONTINUATION OF WORK DURING THIS PROCESS 15
OTHER PROVISIONS 15
44. POLICIES AND PROCEDURES 15
iii.
45. UNIFORMS 15
46. INSURANCES 15
47. STAND DOWN 16
48. LEAVING V AUSTRALIA 16
49. VIDEO SURVEILLANCE 17
50. PROPERTY 17
51. CONFIDENTIALITY 17
52. PERSONAL INFORMATION 18
53. MEDIA STATEMENTS 18
54. NO POACHING 18
55. SIGNATORIES 19
1
AGREEMENT OBJECTIVES AND APPLICATION
1. TITLE
This agreement shall be known as the V Australia Safety Net Agreement 2008
(Agreement).
2. PARTIES
The parties to this Agreement are:
(a) Virgin Blue International Airlines Pty Ltd (V Australia); and
(b) The following employees of V Australia:
(i) Check and Training Captains;
(ii) Training Captains;
(iii) Captains;
(iv) First Officers;
(v) Cruise Relief First Officers (with Airline Transport Pilot’s Licence);
(vi) Cruise Relief First Officers (with Commercial Pilot’s Licence);
(vii) Flight Managers;
(viii) Cabin Leaders; and
(ix) Cabin Crew (Levels 1 and 2),
(collectively, Employees).
3. APPLICATION
3.1 This Agreement applies to V Australia and the Employees.
3.2 To personalise the terms and conditions of this Agreement, Employees may be referred to
as “you” or “your” and V Australia as “we”, “us” and “our”.
3.3 This Agreement contains the complete statement of mutual rights and obligations as
between V Australia and the Employees to the exclusion, to the full extent permitted by
law:
(a) of all other awards, agreements or other like instruments (Other Industrial
Instruments) including those:
(i) which might be in force and bind any organisation party to such Other
Industrial Instruments; and/or
2.
(ii) which might otherwise apply to the parties to this Agreement and/or the
work which is being carried on in respect of the business of V Australia;
(b) save only for such terms and conditions applicable by reason of the contracts of
employment between V Australia and the Employees which are consistent with this
Agreement.
3.4 It is the intention of the parties that this Agreement will operate consistently with
paragraph 3.3 above.
3.5 It is also the intention of the parties that this Agreement will operate as a minimum safety
net, the terms of which cannot in any circumstances be undercut.
3.6 To avoid doubt, V Australia may provide terms and conditions of employment that are
consistent with and/or more favourable than those contained in this Agreement. Those
other terms and conditions may be contained in individual employment contracts and/or
company policy. This Agreement does not affect the enforceability of those other terms and
conditions of employment in any way.
3.7 This Agreement is stand-alone and has been developed by the parties to reflect and
accommodate the specific circumstances of V Australia.
3.8 To avoid doubt, this Agreement does not apply to:
(a) employees engaged by an entity other than V Australia;
(b) V Australia management;
(c) Flight Operations Management, Management Pilots, Cabin Crew Management and
Cabin Crew Development Managers;
(d) V Australia clerical and/or administrative staff;
(e) V Australia head office staff;
(f) People who perform engineering work for or on behalf of V Australia;
(g) People who perform ground handling work for or on behalf of V Australia;
(h) People who perform guest relations work for or on behalf of V Australia.
4. HOW WE WILL WORK TOGETHER
It is the parties’ intention that during the course of employment, they will work together to
develop and implement processes and systems consistent with the following principles:
(a) Employment at V Australia will be in a safe and healthy workplace where every
Employee should expect to work without injury;
(b) There will be open and effective employee relations based on flexibility, mutual
respect and recognition of the contribution and performance of all;
3.
(c) The parties will work together as a team through effective and open
communication, consultation and participation;
(d) The parties will identify and implement opportunities for sustaining and improving
the V Australia business in terms of profitability, Employee engagement and
productivity;
(e) Employment at V Australia will be a means of improving Employees’ skills and
deliver job satisfaction in a way that is consistent with meeting V Australia’s
business outcomes; and
(f) The parties will work together to deliver the following Vision and Mission:
“Vision
Take to the world a new, exciting, trusted and profitable Australian international
airline, powered by passionate people who care for everyone we touch.
Mission
We understand the different needs of our valued guests through every part of their
journey. We strive to make a positive difference by delivering a safe, reliable,
innovative and consistent product at value for money prices in a unique Australian
style.
Our people are our competitive advantage. They will be treated with respect,
supported and encouraged. We will harness their spirit to foster a work
environment embracing loyalty, vibrancy, personal pride and fun.”
5. DURATION
This Agreement commences operation on the date specified in the notice from the
Workplace Authority Director (refer section 346M of the Workplace Relations Act). The
nominal term of this Agreement will expire on 30 June 2012.
6. CONSULTATIVE COMMITTEE
6.1 A Consultative Committee will be formed 6 months prior to the expiry of the nominal term
of this Agreement.
6.2 The Consultative Committee must comprise equal representation from each of the Flight
Crew and Cabin Crew groups covered by this Agreement and V Australia management.
6.3 The Consultative Committee will be tasked with collating information about the operation
of this Agreement during its nominal term (e.g. feedback from Employees covered by this
Agreement, feedback from other team members, things that worked well, things that need
improving or updating etc).
7. NO EXTRA CLAIMS
7.1 The parties agree that this Agreement satisfies all claims against V Australia in respect of
the employment of the Employees.
4.
7.2 It is a term of this Agreement that the Employees will not support or advance any other or
extra claims against V Australia for so long as this Agreement remains within its nominal
term.
7.3 It is also a term of this Agreement that the Employees will not engage in any industrial
action in support of or for the purpose of advancing any other or extra claims against V
Australia for so long as this Agreement remains within its nominal term.
OPERATIONAL PROVISIONS
8. EMPLOYMENT FLEXIBILITY
8.1 V Australia is committed to providing flexibility in its employment arrangements. V
Australia recognises that flexibility in this context is essential to cater for individual
circumstances (e.g. family responsibilities and work life balance) and operational needs.
8.2 To help achieve this flexibility, the parties recognise that there are no restrictions on the
types of employment that can be used. For example, Employees may be employed on a
full-time, part-time or casual basis and/or may be employed on a permanent, fixed term or
fixed task basis or for a maximum period (e.g. up to x years, terminable earlier on notice).
8.3 If you want to change your employment status (e.g. from full-time to part-time), you should
raise this with your manager who will work with you to explore the options that are
available or may be available in the future.
8.4 We cannot change your employment status (e.g. from full-time to part-time or visa versa)
without your agreement.
9. CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT
Your employment at V Australia is subject to the conditions set out below:
For Flight Crew
(a) You providing us with suitable written evidence that you hold an appropriate
Australian Pilot’s licence with:
(i) an Endorsement/Type Rating appropriate to the position you have applied
for/are employed to perform;
(ii) an English Proficiency rating of Level 4 (with a view to moving to Level 6
in the future);
(iii) a current Class 1 medical certificate;
(iv) an Instrument Rating appropriate to the position you have applied for/are
employed to perform;
(b) Satisfactory completion by you of a V Australia Operator’s Proficiency Check;
5.
(c) Satisfactory completion by you of an induction course at a time and place specified
by us; and
(d) Any other matter or matters as determined by us from time-to-time, provided they
are advised by us to you in advance.
For Cabin Crew
(a) You providing us with a suitable Senior First Aid certificate;
(b) You providing us with a suitable Responsible Service of Alcohol certificate; and
(c) Any other matter or matters as determined by us from time-to-time, provided they
are advised by us to you in advance.
For both Flight Crew and Cabin Crew
(a) If requested by us, receipt of written confirmation from a suitably qualified medical
practitioner (who may be nominated by us) that you have not tested positive to
drugs or alcohol in a pre-employment drug and alcohol test;
(b) You holding a valid Aviation Security Identification Card as issued by us;
(c) You holding a valid passport;
(d) After the commencement of your employment, you holding applicable visas that
enable you to enter each port into which V Australia flies.
10. TRAINING AND INDUCTION
10.1 You will be provided with on-the-job training by other members of V Australia and/or by
external training providers. You are required to attend that training. If you feel that you
need particular training in order to properly carry out your role, you should speak with your
manager who will discuss with you the options that are available or may be available in the
future.
10.2 We may make individual arrangements with you about the costs associated with the
provision of training and induction (for example, salary sacrifice arrangements for
endorsements for Flight Crew, bonding arrangements for Flight Crew, obligations on Flight
Crew to repay all or part of the training and/or induction costs if they resign or their
employment is terminated because of misconduct within a certain period etc).
10.3 Ongoing employment at V Australia is subject to you completing all relevant training and
induction to a level satisfactory to V Australia.
11. REPORTING
11.1 Information about who/which position you will report to at V Australia will be outlined in
your offer of employment. For ease of reference, that person/position is referred to as ‘your
manager’ throughout this Agreement.
11.2 We may change your manager and the reporting structure at V Australia at any time. If
there is a need to do this, we will discuss that with you in advance.
6.
12. DUTIES
12.1 You are expected to be proficient in the performance of your duties at V Australia. Your
duties in this context include compliance by you with all V Australia policies and
procedures and the applicable procedures of each port into which you fly.
12.2 You are required to perform the duties and meet the standards of performance and conduct
that are communicated to you from time-to-time. Without limiting these obligations, you
are required to:
(a) Perform such duties that are reasonably required of you from time-to-time;
(b) Exercise reasonable skill and care in performing your duties;
(c) Commit your efforts to furthering the interests of V Australia;
(d) Comply with all directions and instructions given or issued to you by us;
(e) Cooperate with V Australia management in relation to any issues concerning your
employment including making yourself available both during and outside rostered
hours to discuss any issues with management;
(f) Act honestly and in accordance with V Australia’s values and standards of
behaviour and conduct;
(g) Conduct yourself in a professional and responsible manner whilst engaged in any
activity connected with work;
(h) Take all reasonable steps to protect our property and not damage, steal or otherwise
deal with our property in a manner which is inconsistent with this obligation; and
(i) Comply with all legislation and regulations that are relevant to your role.
12.3 We also must act in a way consistent with the above.
12.4 We may request that you perform duties for our related entities, including but not limited to
Virgin Blue Airlines and Pacific Blue Airlines.
12.5 More information about the duties and responsibilities specific to your role will be made
available to you when you commence employment and thereafter, as required during your
employment. If you have any questions about these matters, you should speak with your
manager.
13. HOURS OF WORK
13.1 V Australia operates in a 24 hours, 7 days a week industry. You must be ready, willing and
able to work within a 24/7 roster, including night and day operations on any day or
combination of days, including Saturdays, Sundays and Public Holidays.
13.2 You will not be rostered more than an average of 38 hours a week. This period is averaged
out over a calendar year.
7.
14. ROSTERS
Rosters for the following roster period (currently 28 days) are normally available seven
days prior to the commencement of the roster period.
15. MANUALS AND OPERATIONAL DOCUMENTATION
15.1 A set of V Australia manuals and documentation will be issued to you at your induction
course.
15.2 It is our policy to publish crew manuals on CD-ROM or other electronic means (e.g. on the
intranet) wherever possible.
15.3 You are required to have access to the internet while off duty (except where you are on
extended leave).
16. CONTACTING YOU
You must provide us with a telephone number (preferably a mobile number) at which you
will be contactable during and outside of working hours. You must also provide us with an
emergency contact phone number (e.g. your home phone or the number of a relative or
friend).
17. DAYS OFF
17.1 If you are a full-time Employee, you are entitled to 9 days off per roster period (on the basis
of a roster period being 28 days). If you are a part-time Employee or employed on flexible
work arrangements, you will receive a pro-rata entitlement.
17.2 Unless otherwise agreed with you, days off as detailed in clause 17.1 will be given at home
base.
REMUNERATION
18. SALARY
18.1 If you are a full-time Employee, your starting salary will be no less than the applicable
salary set out below:
Classification Salary
Check and Training Captain $175,000 per year plus an additional 16% of this
amount for time spent performing check and/or
training duties.
Training Captain $175,000 per year plus an additional 10% of this
amount for time spent performing training duties.
Captain $175,000 per year.
8.
First Officer $114,000 per year.
Cruise Relief First Officer
(with Airline Transport Pilot’s
Licence)
$42,800 per year up to the successful completion
of simulator checks and then $53,500 per year
thereafter.
Cruise Relief First Officer
(with Commercial Pilot’s Licence)
$38,220 per year up to the successful completion
of simulator checks and then $47,775 per year
thereafter.
Flight Manager $59,000 per year.
Cabin Leader $49,000 per year.
Cabin Crew (Level 2) $40,000 per year (following satisfactory
performance in Level 1 after 12 months’
service).
Cabin Crew (Level 1) $37,500 per year.
18.2 If you are a part-time Employee or employed on flexible work arrangements, you will be
paid a pro-rata salary based on the above full-time salaries.
18.3 Your salary will be reviewed annually along with your progress and development needs.
18.4 Your salary cannot be reduced. The prohibition of reductions applies not only to your
starting salary but also to all increases to your salary as a consequence of the annual review
process.
18.5 Any overpayment made to you by us may be deducted from your salary as soon as
practicable. In deducting any overpayment, we will take into account your personal
circumstances.
19. INCENTIVE/PROFIT SHARE
19.1 In addition to your salary, you will be eligible to participate in two incentive/profit share
schemes:
(a) an individual incentive plan (which offers the capability to receive a bonus of up to
5% of your salary); and
(b) a company profit share plan (which offers the capability to receive a bonus of up to
3% of your salary).
19.2 The terms of these two incentive/profit share schemes will be determined by V Australia.
Further information will be provided to you by your manager.
9.
20. SUPERANNUATION
We will pay an additional 12% of your salary to a superannuation fund of your choice (or
absent your choice, into a “default” superannuation fund). The parties recognise that this
level of superannuation contribution is significantly over and above current statutory
obligations.
21. WHAT YOUR SALARY COVERS
21.1 Your salary has been calculated to remunerate you:
(a) for all work, including all flying and non-flying work (for example, time spent
performing ground duties, training, on standby and positioning);
(b) for all leave (including leave loading);
(c) for working shiftwork, on weekends and on public holidays; and
(d) for all penalties, loadings and allowances and for all other payments except for
overnight meal and incidental allowances (see clause 25).
22. PAYMENT OF SALARY
Your salary will be paid fortnightly. Payment will be made electronically into your
nominated bank account.
HOME BASE AND OVERNIGHT ARRANGEMENTS
23. HOME BASE
23.1 You will be allocated a home base on the commencement of your employment with V
Australia.
23.2 We may change your home base at any time to meet operational needs.
23.3 If there is a need to change your home base (either permanently or temporarily), we will
discuss that with you in advance and provide assistance to you to allow the change in home
base to occur.
24. ACCOMMODATION
We will provide accommodation and transport to/from the relevant airport and the V
Australia provided accommodation where you are required to overnight away from home
base for work related purposes.
25. OVERNIGHT MEAL AND INCIDENTAL ALLOWANCES
25.1 You will be paid an allowance for incidental and meal expenses where you are required to
overnight away from home base for work related purposes.
10.
25.2 These allowances will be paid in Australian dollars, fortnightly in arrears. Payment will be
made electronically into your nominated bank account.
25.3 The amount of the allowance will be reviewed by us from time-to-time taking into account
such matters as area living expenses (e.g. cost of meals) and currency fluctuations.
25.4 There may be circumstances where we provide you with actual meals in lieu of this
allowance. Examples include during flight and on company training courses (i.e. where we
provide meals).
LEAVE
26. ANNUAL LEAVE
26.1 If you are a full-time Employee, you are entitled to 42 calendar days paid annual leave each
year. If you are a part-time Employee or employed on flexible work arrangements, you will
receive a pro-rata entitlement.
26.2 You are encouraged to use your annual leave to ensure you have sufficient rest and time
with family and friends.
26.3 You will have the opportunity to bid for leave at various times throughout the year.
26.4 Annual leave can be cashed out during employment. You cannot however be required to
cash out annual leave if you do not want to. Cashing out must be done in a way that
complies with relevant law.
26.5 Accrued annual leave is paid out on termination of employment.
27. PERSONAL/CARER’S LEAVE
27.1 If you are a full-time Employee, you are entitled to 10 days paid personal/carer′s leave each
year. If you are a part-time Employee or employed on flexible work arrangements, you will
receive a pro-rata entitlement.
27.2 You can use your personal/carer’s leave entitlement if you are unable to attend work
because you are ill or injured or because a member of your immediate family or household
is ill or injured and requires care or an unexpected emergency happens.
27.3 If you wish to take personal/carer′s leave, you must notify your manager as soon possible in
advance so that we can arrange for other people to cover your absence.
27.4 Your manager may require that you provide documentation to support your personal/carer′s
leave application.
27.5 If you become ill or injured whilst performing work away from home base, we will do what
we reasonably can to provide treatment for you and return you to home base as soon as
possible.
27.6 Accrued personal/carer′s leave is not paid out on termination of employment.
11.
28. URTI LEAVE
28.1 If you are a full-time Employee, you are entitled to 6 days paid URTI leave each year if you
have an upper respiratory tract infection. If you are a part-time Employee or employed on
flexible work arrangements, you will receive a pro-rata entitlement.
28.2 URTI leave is in addition to your personal/carer’s leave entitlement.
28.3 If you wish to take URTI leave, you must notify your manager as soon possible in advance
so that we can arrange for other people to cover your absence.
28.4 Your manager may require that you provide documentation to support your URTI leave
application.
28.5 If you suffer an URTI whilst performing work away from home base, we will do what we
reasonably can to provide treatment for you and return you to home base as soon as
possible.
28.6 URTI leave does not accumulate from year to year and is not paid out on termination of
employment.
29. PARENTAL LEAVE
You are entitled to parental leave in accordance with the Workplace Relations Act or
company policy, whichever is more favourable to you.
30. LONG SERVICE LEAVE
You are entitled to long service leave in accordance with relevant state legislation or
company policy, whichever is more favourable to you.
31. UNPAID CARER’S LEAVE AND PAID COMPASSIONATE LEAVE
You are entitled to unpaid carer’s leave and paid compassionate leave in accordance with
the Workplace Relations Act or company policy, whichever is more favourable to you.

[Getzo]

32. CONTINUITY OF SERVICE AND LEAVE ACCRUALS
If you transfer your employment from another company in the Virgin Blue Group, V
Australia will recognise your “start date” and leave accruals with that other Virgin Blue
Group company for continuity of service purposes at V Australia.
12.
REGULATORY MATTERS
33. CASA REGULATIONS
V Australia is subject to Civil Aviation and Safety Authority (CASA) requirements. You
are required to comply with all CASA requirements, as relevant to your role.
34. ASIC
You must maintain an Aviation Security Identity Card (ASIC). Where you are unable to
hold an ASIC, you accept that this may mean that we cannot allow you to continue your
employment with V Australia.
35. PASSPORTS AND VISAS
35.1 You must maintain a current passport and relevant visas so as to allow you to gain entry
into each port into which you fly. Where you are unable to hold these documents, you
accept that this may mean that we cannot allow you to continue your employment with V
Australia.
35.2 We will reimburse the costs associated with the maintenance of relevant passports and
visas following the provision by you of relevant supporting documentation (including
receipts).
36. INDEMNITY
36.1 We will, to the extent permitted by law, indemnify and release you against all claims and
demands made against you arising out of any negligence by you in performing your duties
(except where your conduct was wilful, reckless, fraudulent, unlawful or not in good faith).
36.2 We will also, to the extent permitted by law, provide legal counsel and defend you in any
legal action arising in connection with the performance of your duties and indemnify you
and hold you harmless from any judgment that may be made against you. If you are
required to act as a witness, we will give you a reasonable period free of duty to prepare
and appear as a witness, subject to operational requirements.
HEALTH AND SAFETY
37. SAFETY AT WORK
37.1 We take our safety obligations seriously. Consistent with this, you agree that you will not
attend work unless at the start of your duty period, you have had adequate rest and are able
to work safely, free of any fatigue, illness, injury, medication or drug which could impair
your ability to work.
37.2 You are required to help implement and comply with all occupational health and safety
policies, rules and procedures and use your best efforts to protect the health and safety of
all V Australia employees, guests and the general public. If you have any questions about
safety at work, you should speak with your manager.
13.
38. HEALTH AND FITNESS
Your continuing employment is conditional upon you maintaining the necessary level of
health and fitness to carry out the full range of your duties safely. To this end, you are
required to cooperate with us in relation to managing any health related concerns which
may affect your ability to perform your role safely.
PERFORMANCE
39. MANAGING PERFORMANCE
39.1 We see individual performance as all-embracing, it covers:
(a) What you do (your duties and responsibilities);
(b) How you do it (your work behaviours), and
(c) The results you achieve (your results).
39.2 Your performance will be continually assessed and you will be required to participate in
performance assessments as and when required. Your ongoing employment is subject to
you performing your duties and otherwise complying with your employment obligations to
a level satisfactory to us.
39.3 If we have concerns about your conduct, capacity or performance, you may be suspended
from your employment on full pay pending an investigation. If, following an investigation,
we believe that your conduct, capacity or performance is not satisfactory, we may put in
place measures to address that and/or initiate disciplinary action against you. Depending on
severity, this may involve a number of things including counselling, a performance
management plan, demotion, suspension or termination of your employment.
FAIR TREATMENT PROCESS
40. PROCESS
40.1 If you have a concern about the application of this Agreement you must raise it via the
process set out below.
40.2 The objective of the process set out below is for matters to be resolved at the workplace.
40.3 The first step is for you to raise your concern/concerns with your manager. For Flight
Crew, your manager is the Manager, Line Operations. For Cabin Crew, your manager is the
applicable Cabin Crew Development Manager. Your manager will consider the matters you
have raised and respond within 7 days. If the matter relates to your manager, then your first
contact should be your ‘manager once removed’ (i.e. your manager’s manager – the person
referred to clause 40.4 below).
40.4 If you cannot resolve the matter with your manager, you may refer it to your manager’s
manager who will consider the matter you have raised and respond within 7 days. For
14.
Flight Crew, your manager’s manager is the General Manager, Flight Operations. For
Cabin Crew, your manager’s manager is the Manager, Cabin Crew.
40.5 If you cannot resolve the matter in accordance with the above, you may refer it to the
Executive General Manager, V Australia who will consider the matter you have raised and
respond within 7 days.
40.6 If the matter is unable to be resolved at the workplace and all steps in this process have
been taken, either party may refer it to the Australian Industrial Relations Commission
(AIRC) or another agreed third party.
40.7 The parties may agree to refer the matter to the AIRC or agreed third party at any point
during this process.
41. ROLE OF THE AIRC OR AGREED THIRD PARTY
41.1 The role of the AIRC or agreed third party is to attempt to settle the matter you have raised
by way of conciliation.
41.2 The conciliation will be conducted in private. The parties will participate in good faith and
any discussions during the conciliation will remain confidential.
41.3 If the matter remains unresolved following conciliation, the AIRC or agreed third party can
do the following:
(a) Express an opinion in writing to the parties outlining:
(i) the background of the case; and
(ii) the merits;
(b) Make recommendations about how the dispute could be resolved; and
(c) If there is no resolution after the opinion/recommendation has issued, convene one
(1) further conciliation in an attempt to resolve the dispute.
41.4 The parties agree that they will consider in good faith any such opinion/recommendation
provided by the AIRC or agreed third party to resolve the dispute.
41.5 If the matter remains unresolved following the second conciliation, either party may refer it
to the AIRC or agreed third party for determination.
41.6 The AIRC/third party is empowered to determine that dispute in a manner and having
regard to such rules and processes as the AIRC/third party thinks appropriate.
41.7 The AIRC/third party’s determination will be final and both parties will accept and abide
by it (subject to it being overturned on appeal or stayed pending the determination of an
appeal).
15.
42. YOUR RIGHTS DURING THE PROCESS
42.1 During the above process you have the right to:
(a) be treated fairly because you raised a matter of concern;
(b) seek advice from a member of our People Department; and
(c) be represented by a person or organisation of your choice.
43. CONTINUATION OF WORK DURING THIS PROCESS
43.1 If you have raised a concern via the fair treatment process, whilst it is being resolved, you
must continue to work in accordance with your contract of employment unless there is
reasonable concern about an imminent risk to your health or safety.
43.2 You must also comply with any reasonable direction given by us to perform other available
work, either at the same workplace or at another workplace. No party will be prejudiced as
to the final settlement by the continuation of work.
OTHER PROVISIONS
44. POLICIES AND PROCEDURES
You must comply with V Australia's policies and procedures as varied or introduced from
time to time.
45. UNIFORMS
45.1 We will provide you with a uniform which must be worn in accordance with our grooming
standards.
45.2 You must, at your own expense, replace any uniform items if replacement becomes
necessary as a result of conditions other than fair wear and tear and/or damage during the
course of duty.
45.3 Should any item of uniform be lost or stolen, it must be reported as soon as possible.
45.4 Your uniform remains the property of V Australia and should be returned in good
condition if you leave employment, change position, or we request that you return it.
45.5 In the event that your position no longer requires a uniform, you will not be compensated
for the loss of this benefit.
46. INSURANCES
46.1 We will provide the following insurances at our cost:
(a) For all Employees – travel insurance while you are travelling for work (e.g.
emergency medical and dental cover, security assistance, medivac etc); and
16.
(b) For Flight Crew – loss of licence/income protection insurance.
47. STAND DOWN
47.1 From time-to-time, there may be circumstances in which we need to stand you down.
Examples include a bird flu type epidemic or a 9/11 type disaster which affects V
Australia’s ability to continue to provide commercial flights. In light of this, the parties
acknowledge that we have the right to stand you down with or without pay for any cause
for which we cannot reasonably be held responsible.
47.2 The right to stand you down is subject to us ensuring that all reasonable options for other
work and for leave have been explored before the stand down is implemented.
47.3 No Employee will be stood down as a consequence of the Boeing strike that started in
2008.
48. LEAVING V AUSTRALIA
48.1 If you are a new employee within the Virgin Blue Group your employment at V Australia
will be subject to a three month probationary period. You or V Australia may terminate
your employment at any time during the probationary period by giving one week’s notice
or payment in lieu of notice (or a combination of both).
48.2 If you have transferred your employment to V Australia from another company in the
Virgin Blue Group, your employment at V Australia is not subject to a probationary period.
The one exception to this is if you been employed for less than 3 months by a company
within the Virgin Blue Group before transferring to V Australia. If that happens, then your
probationary period at V Australia will be the difference between what you served at the
other Virgin Blue company and 3 months.
48.3 Once your probationary period has passed (or if you have no probationary period), you or V
Australia may terminate your employment at any time by giving notice in accordance with
the table below, or as set out in the Workplace Relations Act, whichever is the greater:
Flight Crew 3 months
Cabin Crew 1 month
48.4 We may terminate your employment by making payments in lieu of notice (or a
combination of notice and payments in lieu). We are not however required to give notice or
make payments in lieu if you engage in serious misconduct. You and V Australia may also
agree to waive any notice period that is required.
48.5 If you resign from V Australia and do not provide the required period of notice, we have
the right to withhold monies equal to what you would have been paid had you worked
during the notice period.
48.6 On termination of your employment, you are required to immediately return all of our
property (including all uniform items issued to you or otherwise branded with V Australia
marks) and any confidential documents you may have in your possession. Failure to do so
17.
will entitle us to withhold your final payment until you have complied with your
obligations.
49. VIDEO SURVEILLANCE
Our airports and offices may be fitted with video surveillance cameras. Whilst the cameras
are mainly used for security purposes you should be aware that they may also be used in
investigations into employee’s conduct and for disciplinary purposes.
50. PROPERTY
50.1 The unauthorised removal or possession of our/the Virgin Blue Group’s property or the
property of other persons is not permitted. You agree that it may be necessary to conduct a
search of your personal property in a situation where V Australia is investigating workplace
theft.
50.2 You agree that you will not hold us liable for any loss of or damage to your personal
belongings that are brought into the workplace. We urge you to always take care where
cash and valuables are concerned.
50.3 Prior to you leaving you must immediately return all property owned by us/the Virgin Blue
Group.
51. CONFIDENTIALITY
51.1 Any information about our business or activities or the business or activities of our related
entities which is discovered by you during your employment is confidential, unless that
information is already in the public domain. This includes:
(a) internal business procedures and plans, guests names and contact details, other
guest information, policies, procedures, operational manuals and other similar
documentation, and other such information that relates to the way we conduct our
business;
(b) proposed trademarks or service marks;
(c) marketing information and materials, such as strategic data, including marketing
plans, forecasts, forecast assumptions, future plans and potential strategies of V
Australia which have been or are being discussed; and
(d) financial data, including price and cost objectives, price lists, pricing policies and
procedures, quoting policies and procedures.
51.2 You agree that you will not, either during your employment or at any time after your
employment ends or as required by law or by us, use or disclose to any person, any
confidential information.
51.3 You agree to immediately inform us of any matter which comes to your notice during your
employment which may be of interest or importance to us in protecting the confidentiality
of any confidential information.
18.
51.4 You will also use your best endeavours to prevent the use or disclose of any confidential
information by anyone else.
52. PERSONAL INFORMATION
During the period you operate within this role you will be privy to employment related and
personal information about other V Australia/Virgin Blue Group employees. You are
required to treat this information with absolute confidentiality. This means that you will not
use this information or disclose it to any person other than as legitimately required within
your role. Further, you will use your best endeavours to prevent the inappropriate use or
disclosure of any confidential information by anyone else.
53. MEDIA STATEMENTS
You agree not to make any public statements about us (or our related companies), our
activities, employees, guests, clients or the work you perform without the written approval
of the Executive General Manager, V Australia. The same written approval is necessary for
articles prepared by you for publication in journals or other media.
54. NO POACHING
You agree that you will not, without the written consent of V Australia, during the period
of 3 months after you leave, solicit, interfere with or endeavour to entice away any
employee of V Australia; or counsel, procure or assist any other person to do so.
19.
55. SIGNATORIES
Signed for and behalf of VIRGIN BLUE
INTERNATIONAL AIRLINES PTY
LTD
Signature Print Name
Witness Print Name
Date
Signed for and behalf of the EMPLOYEES
Signature Print Name
Witness Print Name
Date
Signed for and behalf of the EMPLOYEES
Signature Print Name
Witness Print Name
Date
20.
DETAILS OF SIGNATORIES
Employer
I, of c/ 56 Edmonstone Road, Bowen Hills, Qld, 4006
am authorised to sign this Agreement on behalf of the Employer, Virgin Blue International
Airlines Pty Ltd
………………….
Signature
………………….
Date
Employees
I, of c/ 56 Edmonstone Road, Bowen Hills, Qld, 4006
am authorised to sign this Agreement on behalf of the Employees
………………….
Signature
………………….
Date
I, of c/ 56 Edmonstone Road, Bowen Hills, Qld, 4006
am authorised to sign this Agreement on behalf of the Employees
………………….
Signature
………………….
Date

[Horatio Leafblower]

Yeah ok guys - so the MOST junior member of the tech crew is earning less than most of the cabin crew.

Even a checked-to-line ATPL-holding CFO is earning just a bit less than the CSM.

FO's ($116k) are pulling nearly twice as much as the most senior cabin crew($59k).

:rolleyes:

If you are so good that you deserve QF pay just 'cos you had to move away from the North Shore for a couple of years, you had better ring QF recruiting and let them know. :ugh:

Yeah OK so it's not as much as QF. It is far less than many of us want to be paid for what will be the final stages of our career. But not all of us can get into QF and CX and not all of us want to move to the sandpit.

[shortshorts]

Learn to read and think???? :ugh:

so low pay on top of no overtime, no day off allowances, 9 days off a month, nothing for admin/sim days. To fly a 777 over a lot of water.

I don't get it.

[SilverSleuth]

No to mention leaving all future decisions on changes to every part of your work conditions (both up and down) to CABIN CREW !!! ....Give me a break :mad:

[Sir Donald]

Talk about making a deal with the devil.
And No KRUSTY I am not going to start, how can you expect me to?
The flipping thing changes every second. And to allow CC common voting rights is an insult to what I(we) have worked so dam hard for was the last nail.
Peoples please fall over each other.

[dirty deeds]

Hold me back, where do I sign up. I can get paid more flying a Baron, and be home every night and get a meal provided on an overnight charter. What a disgrace, we are heading back 40 years in time here, this a very sad day in Australia's Aviation history where Cabin Crew and Pilots vote on the same EBA. Why should a VAUS pilot not get paid what a QF pilots gets paid. Where are some peoples logic.

THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE DISGRACE TO THIS COUNTRIES AVIATION HISTORY! THIS NOW MAKES THIS INDUSTRY ABOUT AS ATTRACTIVE AS BECOMING A COURIER DRIVER OR A LOCAL COUNSIL GARBO!

[FFRATS]

What a joke.
Managers have hit a new low. Hang your gready heads down :D
If Voz starts with the minium B777 order commited to and then stalls for a few years a CRZ FO on $5OK with no promotion sounds even more pathetic.
The hours gained as a CRZ FO during that time mean nothing towards overseas employment (where other B777 operators are) and the market is getting tougher as the pilot shortage is coming to a end.
Add to that the next agreement will be voted on by the Cabin Crew who won't feel sorry for you and give up conditions, what i'm not sure, to raise your wage above their own!
Stay in GA and keep some self respect till you get a professional pay offer.
FFRATS

[airtags]

Item 38 in Getzo's post (amongst others) poses a worry:

quote:
Your continuing employment is conditional upon you maintaining the necessary level of health and fitness to carry out the full range of your duties safely. To this end, you are required to cooperate with us in relation to managing any health related concerns which may affect your ability to perform your role safely.

This is the sort of stuff that EBA's have become - ambiguous and open to misinterpretation and abuse but only one way. - you don't even own your body and for what...!

Whatever happened to precision and clarity in documentation - proabably the same thing that happened to integrity and fairness

[The Shield]

Yeah you guys can say whatever you like, for someone like me with the bare 1000 hours instructing the opportunity at a gig flying a 777 at 38 grand is too good to be true!

In a couple of years I'll get a crack at Fo and a payrise so it will be worth it.

For all those knockers you just stay in your !!!!ty GA job and when you finally get a gig on a jet I'll be laughing as your Capatanio! haha

Go you all you Gen Y!

hahaha

[ozbiggles]

The Shield.....so you got a job there with that level of maturity?
First two lines OK, a rational point.....the rest just scares me that you may have some level of responsibility on a big jet.

[ACMS]

what?

Trust me bub ( as a person that's been there and done that ) after 1000 hrs trudging across the Pacific, crappy crew meals, sleep deprivation in 3 star Hotels, etc etc you'll wish you didn't give yourself over soooo easily. You'll wish a real Union negotiated some better conditions for you.

And just when you thought you'd get a nice day off ( so you could actually take a crap at the correct time ) VAus crew control will ring up and TELL you to "go back to LA and do it all again, no day off for you little fella"

When I think of what you are accepting the word prostitute comes to mind, and narrow minded, and selfish.

After 30 years of 1000 hrs a year you'll be lucky to survive past retirement, but that doesn't matter as you wont have any money to retire anyway.

Enjoy the 77W, from the back seat.

[puff]

They might as well have offered $10 an hour and a bed in the YMCA for Cruise F/Os and they still would have been flocked with applications!

The shuttle bus driver would be earning more!

[Wiley]

But the saddest fact of all about Australian Aviation, a fact that management learned well in 1989 and have confirmed for themselves quite a few times since, is that wannabees like The Shield will always be there in large enough numbers to fill any position on offer no matter how 'orrible the package offered.

About the only thing they'll argue about is how far up their fundamental orifice they'll gladly take the proffered management cicket bat.

[Getzo]

They voted for a rogering and thats what they are getting!!
I feel sorry for those 47% that had a backbone.:sad:

[Wings Of Fury]

Crazy days!!
I never thought I would see the day when myself, a wide body Airbus First Officer (based overseas) would be earning more than a B777 Training Capt.

I mean you have to put a price tag on living overseas, and money is not the primary reason why I do this job, but after tax its still 50K AUD more than the a VA Training Capt. Whats going on in Australia?:confused:

[KTM525]

Are you guys seriously saying this thing got voted through? Wow! Unfortunately the ramifications of this will go through to every wage negotiation in the future for airline pilots in Australia....thanks guys!:ugh:
(Actually i guess its the pilots who voted no, management as usual have ruined our fun)
Just shows it would be great if we had a common union to represent everyone.(tell him he's dreaming!)

[greenslopes]

Shield, without the required twin command hours you will be unable to progress and remain as S/O till you do.
If you are going to shaft everyone on your way "up" make sure you have done your due diligence as no one will be in your corner to back you up.............you selfish ****!

[knowall]

There has not been a vote yet. I hope the AFAP thanks Sue.... for organizing the union within VA. That is all this pathetic proposal has done. I understand similar feeling are running though the CC ranks.

[psycho joe]

In a couple of years I'll get a crack at Fo and a payrise so it will be worth it.


Why would you assume anything of the sort?

Remember, there is no linear progression for CFO's. Despite any assertions being made now by the company, after your contract has expired they have no obligation to offer you anything. It may very well be a case of "Ta ta Mr Shield, re-apply for Senior FO position when you have a couple of thousand right seat jet hours, more command time etc...Wish you all the best on future endeavours blah bla". And don't assume you'll be able to seamlessly transition to VB for that right seat time either. I seem to remember an agreement for pilot transition between QANTASLINK and Jetstar which came to nothing.

[dunerider]

I wonder if the impending agreement was disclosed to the new VA pilots during
their interview process. The obvious answer was probably not. I imagine the bosses of VB are trying to get this passed so they can enact the standdown clause and reduce the payout they have to give their VA Flight crew.I truly feel sorry for the guys who left great jobs to return home for genuine family reasons.

[markontop]

Working for Branson and he does this? Really he has form. I remember just before VB started the GFI was interviewed on business Sunday;
Reporter; "Mr. Branson what are you going to pay your pilots"?
GFI; "what the markets dictate"?
Reporter; "Mr. Branson what are you going to pay"?
After a few more evasive answers, Richard declares the interview over and leaves.
As I said you still seem surprised and have left real jobs to come and work for him. But hey what great marketing:ugh:.

[ga_trojan]

You must provide us with a telephone number (preferably a mobile number) at which you will be contactable during and outside of working hours.

So has CASA changed their interpretation of "free of all duty" then? The last CASA interpretation I heard on this matter was that if you were required to be contactable that was considerd duty and was to be logged as such. I recall a Chief Pilot years ago being busted by CASA for this very offence!!

[dirty deeds]

Getzo,

Your right, thanks to the 53% of guys that voted yes on a Deed that was nothing short of stupidity. Sounds like a great place to work with the caliber of pilot gaining employment at V. Would love to work and play with some of these guy's, NOT! Good luck to you all, thanks for really putting the boots into our pay and conditions. So when the pay scales to fly a 777 are less than an instructor, is that when you decide to not take the job. Think long term. Oh thats right, pilots don't have the ability to do this.

[Visual Landing]

You all have to remember that there was not a vote on any VA terms and conditions. That happens next week on the joke you have read above.

[chookcooker]

So how does this upcoming vote work? Do the individual sections (ie Flight Crew, Cabin Crew etc) have to be at least 50% yes individually?
....What a joke

[oldhasbeen]

Before we get too concerned with who's going to get payed more, it might be prudent to have a look at whats happening around us as we speak. A lot of folks who had planned to maybe come home early with well earned gains from o/s and happily sit in the front of VA 777 for a couple of years before hangin' up the "gone fishing" sign, have lost a ton of those gains. They will probably be forced to sit it out in the desert or asia and work hard at getting back on track before heading back to Aus. Put simply, you cannot crew B777s with wet behind the ears 1000 hr instructors , no matter how far they are prepared to bend over! This, along with the other obvious hurdles will simply see the end of VA as a concern to anyone.

[KRUSTY 34]

I don't know mate, Sandpit Sam and his pals have put their hands up. Unless of course they have changed their minds. They have gone a little quiet?

I sure hope for their families sake they haven't burnt too many bridges!

[ULH Extreme]

With the OZ $ dropping by 30%, it's not worth going home to such a low paid job.

[Getzo]

Australian Federation of Air Pilots 6/132 Albert Rd South Melbourne VIC 3205
T: 03 9928 5737 F: 03 9699 8199 E: [email protected] ([email protected]) W: www.afap.org.au (http://www.afap.org.au/)
TO: ALL VA AND VB PILOTS
RE: VA PILOTS TO LOSE CONTROL OVER OWN DESTINY UNDER
V-AUSTRALIA COLLECTIVE AGREEMENT
DATE: 26 SEPTEMBER 2008
Pilots to be Swamped by Majority
Numbers
V Australia (VA) pilots have been
invited/rostered to attend a so-called “Safety
Net” meeting with VA management
representatives over the course of the next
week. The Federation has learnt that the
company intends to push a new single,
collective agreement that it intends to apply
to both flight crew and cabin crew.
Due to the higher numbers of cabin crew
compared to flight crew, in a combined vote
of the two groups, cabin crew could impose
a single agreement on pilots, no matter how
offensive it is to the pilot body.
VA management has revealed already itself
as anti-union. It has adopted an aggressive
approach to its workforce, including pilots,
and through this approach hopes to isolate
the VA workforce’s unions (including the
Federation) from representing their
members. It is no coincidence that the
agreement that the company is proposing is
“non-union”.
An Attack On Your Wages And Rights
The Federation believes that the company,
through this single non-union collective
agreement, intends to further reduce pilot’s
wages and conditions (in real terms), your
workplace rights and life style benefits.
The Federation is very familiar with these
types of strategies. VA is not the only
aggressive, ideologically driven, anti-union
company. We saw plenty of them during the
peak of the Workchoices legislation which,
for the most part, we still operate under,
leaving companies like VA at large to attack
wages, conditions and job security.
This Is What You Could Be On The Line
Based on previous experiences within the
industry, VA pilots could expect to be
subject to the following provisions,
inclusions and omissions in the
proposal:
�� A 5 Year Agreement with NO
guaranteed wage increases
�� No Loss of Licence Cover
�� Ability for the company to unilaterally
vary a pilots home base
�� No roster stability or certainty of days
off
�� A requirement to be contactable 24/7
�� Flight and Duty Limitations covered
by company policy, not part of your
Agreement
�� No Death Benefit Insurance/cover
�� Company discretion to pay
allowances, such as meal allowances
�� No certainty surrounding payment of
salary intervals
�� Watered down powers of the AIRC to
resolve disputes with unfettered
powers of the company to terminate
employment, impose heavy penalties
and costs on pilots in the event of
certain grievances.
These could be to name just a few.
Australian Federation of Air Pilots 6/132 Albert Rd South Melbourne VIC 3205
T: 03 9928 5737 F: 03 9699 8199 E: [email protected] ([email protected]) W: www.afap.org.au (http://www.afap.org.au/)
Watch For the Snow Job
No doubt the company will try to sell a
positive message and hope to convince you
how well off you will be under their proposed
agreement. It may even say that the
workforce and company have a common
interest in moving forward under the
company’s strategy.
However, it is critical that each pilot consider
not so much what is in the agreement, but
rather what is not. And; as can be seen
above that list could be extremely significant.
If pilots attend the loosely named ‘safety
net meetings’, you are encouraged to
question what is being put to you.
• How are pilot’s rights protected if they
can be out voted by cabin crew?
• Why won’t the company agree to
negotiate with your union?
• What conditions that most Australian
pilots enjoy won’t apply to VA pilots?
• Am I guaranteed pay increases?
• Will I effectively be at the company’s
beckon call 24 hours a day, 365 days a
year?
Keep In Touch with the Federation
Pilots are encouraged to take notes, keep
copies of any material provided at the
meeting and to contact the Federation
following the meetings.
Whilst the Federation supports the concept
of a ‘collective’ agreement, we are
vehemently opposed to other groups, such
as cabin crew determining the employment
conditions and rights of pilots for potentially
the next five years. No doubt cabin crew
would share the view if the situation was
reversed and the pilots ‘had the numbers’.
This could be a protracted campaign. No
pilot is obliged to agree anything put to them
by the company. The Federation is
developing responses and strategies to
assist our VA members.
However, critical to any strategy is
communication, to inform and to be
informed. We must know who you are and
where you are. We are updating our data
base.
If you are a VA pilot and have not updated your details with the Federation please do so
immediately – either by email [email protected] ([email protected]) or phone membership on 03 9928 57 37.
If you are not already an AFAP member you can down load a membership form from the
AFAP website, www.afap.org.au (http://www.afap.org.au/) or phone the Federation on 03 9928 57 37.
MORE THAN EVER VB AND VA PILOTS NEED TO BE UNITED AND STICK TOGETHER.

[Hoofharted]

Why are all the "V" people getting so stroppy. You all signed up to be prostitutes from day one, so why cry foul when you get fvcked like the whores you are? :ok::ok::ok:

[Sand dune Sam]

KRUSTY, most guys I know are holding back..biding their time and waiting to see what happens. For a number of reasons, but one is in support of their mates in VB and the fact they wish to see better T&C's for all. Their families are happy as are they. :ok:

[t_cas]

lr 3, so you wish you were a skipper on those terms too. You would take the job just to see others in the same job cry. Do not be so morbid. I do not think I would like to fly with you on my flight deck.

[KRUSTY 34]

You've changed your tune Sam'.

On the other thread you had to gall to have a go at me because according to you I had not applied, and therefore, also according to you, I did not have the credentials to comment.

I would suggest you are now the subject of a very serious credibility gap!

[Getzo]

Too little Too late AFAP!:ugh:
Where were you last time, telling the guys to accept a rubbish EBA!:=

This new larger improved pineapple is coming your way, get ready guys.:ooh:

Getzo

[maui]

Getzo.

There was no last time.
You seem to think that VA=VB. It doesn't.
There has been no EBA vote at VA. There has been no vote, period.
Get your eggs in their appropriate baskets before you run off at the mouth and demonstrate to all, your ignorance of the realities.

M

[dirty deeds]

Maui,

Let me inform you of something, VA=VB was sold to the VB pilot group in company road shows prior to the EBA vote. VB pilots were led to believe that it would be done on straight seniority (sorry start date), and they would work their way down the list and offer positions if experience levels were met. There was no mention of pay and conditions (and the silly boys voted on the assumption that the pay would be better than VB), because they were told that if we accept a lower pay on the EMB then the pay on the 777 would be naturally higher.

THIS HAS ALL BEEN A TOTAL CON, WARNING TO ALL WHO ARE HEADING TO V, THIS IS HOW THEY OPERATE, ITS ALL LIES COUPLED WITH HOT WIND AND P%^S! IF ITS NOT MENTIONED IN THE FINE PRINT, IT WON'T HAPPEN.

With this credit crisis, I am glad I have not left my current job to head off to VB. Atleat you get three months pay severance (I think).

[bdozer]

For all V Australia pilots out there now is the time to Unite and show these net monkies that as a pilot body or voice will be heard. Lets make our job a sustainable career and one we can be proud of.


PM me and ill send you some info so that we all have a common direction.

:cool:

[Kingswood]

I would suggest any agreement vote will be a moot issue shortly anyway. It can only be a matter of days/weeks before the pin is reluctantly pulled on the entire operation. The market they want to tap is evaporating like mist, and there is no sign of any improvement on the Boeing machinists issue, so A/C delivery is uncertain. Any financing that they may have been counting on is a distant fading hope. They only have so much cash to bleed, and right now the old adage of "cash is king" is a gross understatement.

Uncertain delivery + No market = Cut your losses.

My bet: VA to indefinitely suspend all operations and staff within the month.

Kingswood.

[Getzo]

Maui,

"Get your eggs in their appropriate baskets before you run off at the mouth and demonstrate to all, your ignorance of the realities.":=

Are you serious dude, get out of the house and have a good look around.:rolleyes:

Getzo

[allaru]

I would agree I don't think they will start, I recon late DEC early JAN they will cut their losses.

Of all the places they could have picked to fly between, the US and AUS.

[boofta]

If they persist in the current climate, it will probably bring VB down.
Weak aussie dollar= no aussie guests
Weak US economy= no US guests
In retrospect the Boeing machinists may have saved VB!

[Going Boeing]

A Delta Airlines pilot told me that they have plans to operate to Oz. It will make things very difficult for V Oz if those plans come to fruition.

[alangirvan]

Oz is one of a wishlist of Asia Pacific destinations that Delta have had it in mine to operate. HKG is another, so watch out Cathay as well.

As Delta goes through with the merger with Northwest, it is possilbe Delta will be on the relationship that VA will have with NW. It might suit Delta just to codeshare with VA on flights to Australia. Works for AA on Qantas.

[Sand dune Sam]

KRUSTY... I have applied, looked at it, have all the quals, just not my cup ot tea. Bit of a contrast to yourself, running around trolling for all the goss on pprune, attempting to stir the pot and bagging the company ..Get serious my freind and let people be the judge. I'm sure that most professionals on here have the brains to look at the V deal and decide for themselves.

As I said, I'm happy where I am..but I happened to get the facts about V and made an informed decision. That being to stay put.

You have a nice day now.:ok:

[dirty deeds]

Kingswood and Allaru,

I think you guys's are on the money. This is just another example of how a V company operates:

1. They shoot from the hip and announce a new product/market (premium econonmy, Kalgoorlie flights, live to air, pilots chance for V Galactic and the list goes on),
2. Then they market the idea without full research with economic risk and evaluation,
3. When they realise that the concept won't work as predicted because of lack of No.2, they blame everyone else and place a stall tactic on the concept, then
4. Either the idea or concept disappears into the abyss or they continue at full steam ahead and allow ego to burn large amounts of cash.

VAUS is definately heading for No.4 on the list! This is how they operate as they are very amateurish and most of the time way out of their league.

Good luck to those that have resigned from their positions to head to V. I hope you all have a plan B.

[walaper]

So dirty deeds you would have us believe that 25000 Boeing machinists are on strike to delay the launch of VA:8

[pylet]

Acknowledging the Boeing machinists on strike, isn't the first 777 for VA just sitting there at Everett? What role does a machinist at Boeing play once the aircraft is completed and awaiting delivery? What's stopping VA going over and flying it home?
Could it be that the financing of the aircraft is not finalised and therefore the aircraft stays put? Can't imagine too many finance companies eager to fund an aircraft in the current climate.
It just strikes me as odd as to why a completed aircraft (if the first VA 777 is completed) can not be delivered if only the machinists are on strike and all finance, approvals (excluding an Aust AOC) and paperwork are legit.

[DUXNUTZ]

Galleys need to be fitted. You think it would get painted without proper funding in place???....

Boeing have been building planes longer than the last 5 minutes.

[Jabawocky]

pylet

trust me it is not going anywhere. been posted before and if you search I have posted the pics too. All sealed up and mothballed. Lot more work to do!

J

[Zero_au]

Someone please tell me that I am wrong on this? The quoted salaries INCLUDE annual leave, etc, so that the actual base is much lower than stated. If this is the case, then the CFO will be on less money than the adult single dole rate in Australia!!

21. WHAT YOUR SALARY COVERS
21.1 Your salary has been calculated to remunerate you:
(a) for all work, including all flying and non-flying work (for example, time spent
performing ground duties, training, on standby and positioning);
(b) for all leave (including leave loading);
(c) for working shiftwork, on weekends and on public holidays; and
(d) for all penalties, loadings and allowances and for all other payments except for
overnight meal and incidental allowances (see clause 25).


This is a disgrace! Would anybody out their like to calculate the real base salary?:mad:

[RYAN TCAD]

I wouldn't even bother wasting my time calculating that, it's also the very reason i rejected their invite for interviews.

Remember, pay peanuts - get monkeys!

[walaper]

Pylet
I seem to recall boeing rolling out a lovely shiny 787 about a year ago but it still has not left the ground either:O

[man on the ground]

Acknowledging the Boeing machinists on strike, isn't the first 777 for VA just sitting there at Everett? What role does a machinist at Boeing play once the aircraft is completed and awaiting delivery? What's stopping VA going over and flying it home?

Does it have an interior fit out yet? Maybe thats the hold up if the machinists union is involved there?

[sprucegoose]

It seems the machinists are the only people allowed to fit the galley.

[Mr.Buzzy]

What crap!
V informed Boeing about 3 months ago that there was "no great rush" and to "go slow" on the first machine.

bbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[airtags]

Zero
I would not bother with doing the recalc as section 21 is far from precise - in fact it is quite ambiguous.

This lack of precision means basically that the quantum covers everything - on that basis, it's not far off the equivalent aggregated hourly rate of a casual check out operator at an Aldi supermarket. :eek:

Of course even more scary is that the combined agreement concept as you would need to make sure you lobby the CC for their support in respect of subsequent agrements -

It would be far from comforting to think your future relies largely on the votes of starry eyed 20 year old Y gens whose perspective of IR & workplace agreements does not extend beyond whether paparazzi should be allowed to take photos of p*ssed celebs.

[airtags]

Zero
I would not bother with doing the recalc as section 21 is far from precise - in fact it is quite ambiguous.

This lack of precision means basically that the quantum covers everything - on that basis, it's not far off the equivalent aggregated hourly rate of a casual check out operator at an Aldi supermarket. :eek:

Of course even more scary is that the combined agreement concept as you would need to make sure you lobby the CC for their support in respect of subsequent agreements -

It would be far from comforting to think your future relies largely on the votes of starry eyed 19 year old Y gens whose perspective of IR & workplace agreements does not extend beyond whether paparazzi should be allowed to take photos of p*ssed celebs.

[No Idea Either]

Well said airtags. If not for any other reason, no-one should accept a postion with V if the flighties will be voting on your conditions. You are insane if you do. It will all end in tears, literally....

[galdian]

Don't know what you guys are on about;

Captains maybe all married, bossed around at home by the skirt, bossed around at work by the CM;

F/O's and CFO's sound like their barely left the feeding bazooka's, bossed around at work by the CM.

C'mon guys, be fair, sounds like HR are going OUT OF THEIR WAY to establish a familiar environment in which their pilots can flog themselves to death, destroy their health and work to conditions that haven't existed since "how green was my valley" ie. we pay, we own you!

And you dare to criticise?? :=:=:=:=:=:=:=:=

Shame, shame, shame! :D:D:D:D

Ungrateful swine the lot of you! :ok:

[KRUSTY 34]

Did anyone see "A Current Affair" the other night? It seems that certain celebrities are poached from rival networks and then put on hold drawing huge salaries so that they cannot work for anyone else! Maybe that's what VA have in mind for their "idle" staff. Good gig if you can get it. But somehow I don't think so?

Get out while you can boys and girls. The writing is on the wall.

[dirty deeds]

Walaper,

You obviously did not read my post correctly:

"When they realise that the concept won't work as predicted because of lack of No.2, they blame everyone else and place a stall tactic on the concept"

DD

[Kangaroo Court]

I have no desire to do international anymore. I think it's totally over rated. I'd like to see my kids and wife at least more than half the nights in a year and not walk around like a zombie. What's the RFDS pay?

[Howard Hughes]

That bad, huh?
Two night shifts per fortnight at our base spent onsite (not callouts from home), average 7-8 working days per fortnight, salary 80-85k first year.

PM me if you want anymore details...:ok:

[dirty deeds]

When asked the question, he did not deny it!

Asked whether the present situation was likely to delay or stop the launch of long-haul offshoot V Australia and stop the company from obtaining finance for a new fleet of Boeing 777 aircraft, Mr Godfrey replied: "The only thing that will affect the ability to get finance for 777s is the state of the financial market, not the share price of Virgin Blue."

Good luck to those who have left their jobs, I don't even reckon they have the cash to start this Gulag!

"Here, there is no Cash, Robo", "No Cash!". :sad::sad::sad:

[Led Zeppelin]

Godfrey might well say that the VB share price is irrelevant to VA financing, but the up front cash needed to get this behemoth off the ground does come from VB. That's very relevant and the real worry.

There are some very nervous people in the head office bunker ready to run for cover if this all unravels.

VB needs to keep any spare cash it has for domestic survival. This is imperative.

[farrari]

Hell, is it that VA might just help VB, no that can not be right or can it, now what did I just read :confused: oh ya VA taking on some VB pilots because there got toooo many. You will be welcomed and shown the :E side :\ Share price up 16% today.

[im sparticus]

16% sounds great, only another 900% to go and she will be back to her all time highs.

[ozangel]

farrari,

I believe that it may be VA that has 'too many pilots' at the moment? They don't have any aircraft!

[Jabawocky]

Well a little birdie just told me that shortly the Boeing folk will be back on the job so they have probably escaped penalty payments and will be back into it....

So the Tripllers will eventually be ready........:ok:


The International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM) announced today that it reached a tentative agreement with the Boeing Company on a contract that will provide job security for its members and limit the amount of work outside vendors can perform in the workplace.
The agreement was hammered out over a five-day period with assistance from federal mediators and participation at the bargaining table by IAM International President Tom Buffenbarger and IAM General Vice President Rich Michalski. Additional resources and technical support was provided by various departments at IAM headquarters.
Job security and the use of vendors were key issues in the strike that began on Sept. 6, 2008. Among the other issues resolved in the latest round of bargaining were wage rates, health care benefits for current and future employees, pension improvements and work rule changes designed to improve productivity.
Full details of the 4-year accord will be withheld until they can be compiled and distributed to IAM members in all Boeing locations.
The tentative agreement has the unanimous endorsement of the IAM negotiating committee and will be presented to members for a ratification vote, which will take place in 3-5 days. A simple majority is required to ratify the tentative agreement.
"After 52 days of striking, we have gained important and substantial improvements over the Company's last, best and final offer that was rejected on September 3rd. Your solidarity brought Boeing back to the table and made this Company address your issues," stated District 751 President Tom Wroblewski. "Each of you stood up and did your part to win this battle, which was a fight against more than just Boeing, but against corporate America. Boeing is profitable because of our members' hard work and by standing together our members ensured they receive a bigger share of those profits."
"This tentative agreement is the result of hard work and great sacrifice by many people," said IAM Aerospace Coordinator Mark Blondin. "But no one deserves more credit than the workers at Boeing, who conducted themselves with dignity and determination throughout this ordeal. On behalf of the entire negotiating committee, I want to say it has been our honor to serve as their representatives."

[Dale Hardale]

So the Tripllers will eventually be ready.......

Yes- but to which airline will they be delivered ?

[DUXNUTZ]

How'd that vote for the EBA/agreement pan out?

[greenslopes]

Townsville re-fueller suggested it was a resounding NO.
Do you think V OZ head honcho's will learn from this?...................No I don't think so either!

Feed them cake.

[kiwi engineer12]

Now the Boeing strike is over, VAus plans to take delivery of the 1st A/C mid-late Dec.

Thats was the word recently from people involved with organising the delivery flights, but who knows.

[Hoofharted]

With a bit of luck this whole whore-house called V for VD Aus and all the whores who went to work in it will never get off the ground.

[coaldemon]

I'm sure it will get going. If you are employed in Aviation you should be able to see it from your whore house. :}

[TexanPilot]

With a bit of luck this whole whore-house called V for VD Aus and all the whores who went to work in it will never get off the ground.No matter what your personal feelings about a company are wishing that fellow aviators lose their jobs is a VERY :mad: attitude to have.

Show some more respect for your fellow aviators.

[dirty deeds]

Show some more respect for your fellow aviators.

Is that the same respect shown to fellow aviators by accepting such c%^p conditions and setting a new bench mark for his fellow aviators, oh thats right it's his choice and therefore Hoofhearted has his choice too, it's a shame that most pilots do not have much respect for this new operation, I can't wait for you all to see the wood from the tree's, by then it's too late, enjoy your meal at the LAX Holiday Inn and paxing in row 67C. Have you asked flight ops whether they will pax you in business class? This is going to be fun to watch! :D:D:D:D:D:D

By the way, I have a new name for your Union, the Flight Attendant and Pilots Association, FAPA!

[THRidle]

Boy, Is there a lot of angst on this page !!!!!!!

[ZQN]

Hoofharted

So V turned you down for a job - move on mate!

[TopTup]

I've posted it before and I'll post it again........

For ANY of you posting negative and nasty comments here about VAus drivers selling out, lowering the bar, etc AND fly for DJ or JQ then you are NOTHING BUT A HYPOCRIT!

The DJ drivers were the first to pay for their endorsement & training.... then came JQ to lower it further, then JQ International with the CRFO role offering "that" salary for the A330. What an uproar at the time, yet so many of you ran in like hogs at the trough in order to fly a jet.

Some of you need a good look in the mirror and get off that self righteous high horse. Personally I do not agree with so much at VAus, but I can't tolerate the pathetic hypocritical comments made by (potentially) some of the founders of the lowering of Oz aviation's T's & C's.

For the record, I do not have any affinity with VAus in case that bird tries to fly with some.

[Hoofharted]

Show some more respect for your fellow aviators.

Why should I do that when they quite obviously have no respect for themselves?

So V turned you down for a job - move on mate!

Have never applied to any of the Virgin concerns, would rather go and drive a truck on a mine site than work for 3rd world wages at VD. You obviously have and have succeeded in your quest for the bottom. How proud you must be.:D:D:D:D

[Kangaroo Court]

Impulse was the first "airline" to do pay for training. Not Virgin Blue.

[Sand dune Sam]

TopTup..good call, well put. You have to question the motives of anyone getting on this forum trolling for gossip and bad mouthing any operation. Perhaps the reason why they do so rests with their inability to cope with their own incapabilities?

Like you, I have nothing to do with V Aus, I did however look at and got ALL the facts and made my own mind up electing to stay put.

I have said this before also..there are some good people that have gone to V Aus, I know some of them well. They have returned to Australia for good reason. It would be fair to say allot of the so called "well informed" and opinionated here wouldn't know what it's like to be an expat as they have never left the comfort of the Sydney basin.

I hope for the guys that have gone to V Aus that in a few years time it turns out to be a good operation, it has the potential.

[No Idea Either]

Sorry Sand Dune, cant let that go. For years anyone who stayed in Oz has had to put up with the drivel from all the expats, telling us how wonderful it was OS, how you got looked after and paid an enormous salary. And the lifestyle....well what more could you ask for.

Now theres a wide body startup in Oz and look, its being crewed by cheap foreign and expat labour who either just want to come home or escape their own country's disasters. If it was a case of experience required to set it up, I can live with that, but VB has more ex widebody and specifically 777 skippers than you can poke a stick at. Its not about that, its about reduction in wages and working conditions, and I say again all the expats coming to VA, regardless of their reasons are sh!tting well and truely in the nest, for all of us.

incoming...............

[Sand dune Sam]

No Idea..Point taken and you raise a number of good points. I wasnt one of those that made a fuss of going O/S, I simply did what I had to do and got on with it.

Point I was trying to make is bitching and carrying on on pprune does nothing and just proves to management we are nothing but our own worst enemies.

I say it again, let the guys that are there do their job and lets hope in a few years time they build VA into an operation that befits it's potential.

[dirty deeds]

I saw in Fridays Australian news paper that V are looking for a Manager of Flight Operations and another Flight Operations roll (Training Manager I believe?). Correct me if I am wrong, I thought V already had a Manager of Flight Operations?

Is the writing on the wall hear guy's, have the start up boy's already left?

[roo teds pouch]

You guys (but not all on this thread) have really lost the plot. The title suggested to me something that had little to do with industrial relations. Cheers, rtp

[funnelweb]

Quite a few blissfull comments on this thread.

After all, ignorance is bliss isn't it?

All the best to those involved with Vaustralia, I hope that it will be a great airline.

Cheers webby.

[Spelling Police]

funnelweb,

Is 'Vausralia' what the airline is called when you are a little drunk?

Cheers
SP

[dirty deeds]

Roo,

If the original MOF has actually resigned whilst the Company's situation is uncertain, then maybe reading between the lines, the title of this thread is worthy of this type of info! It may have a bearing on whether the company's viability is questionalble, because as we know from previous lives, the managers create a rear guard action and have a back door option (if they are smart).

[coaldemon]

ON looking at their website they are after a Manager of Line Operations. Not an MFO.

[KRUSTY 34]

Quote:

"You guys (but not all on this thread) have really lost the plot."

The only people who have lost the plot 'roo, are the proponents of this obviously doomed venture. First they (VA management) lost the respect of most clear thinking individuals with a new low in T&C's, then they continue with all the hype and bullsh!t while the world burns around them.

DJ will be lucky, (very lucky) to survive the current crisis. V Australia are already dead and buried, only those at the top (for reasons best known to themselves) have yet to publicly bite the bullet. And as far as the TV adds are concerned, what the F#ck are they thinking?! One could only assume that they were paid for in advance. Although nothing would surprise me with this mob!

My prediction, DJ will exorcise this failed venture within the month, if not sooner. Get out while you can boys and girls, and will the last one please turn out the lights!

[Track Direct]

Krusty I agree with your comments re V Aus, they could'nt have picked a worse time to start operating on the proposed routes.
Where the fark do they think the pax are going to come from ?
The whole show looks rooted to me !

[Going Boeing]

I agree with Krusty, Track Direct & Dale H - the forward bookings for most international operators are looking very poor and for V Oz having very significant start-up costs they need bums on seats at a reasonable yield. In the current economic climate, this is not going to happen and I don't think that DJ's pockets are deep enough to keep V Oz going for very long.

I want this operation to succeed because the failure of V Oz would be a shame for all the workers trying to support their families but it would also give ammunition to EK & SQ in their attempts to get rights across the Pacific.

[Dale Hardale]

Yes, I just don't understand why they are persisting with this (VA). It has the potential to bring down the whole Virgin Blue operation and that's not a good thing.

I guess management will eventually emerge from the bunker and have to face the reality.

Virgin Blue (domestic) must be protected at all costs - surely these idiots can see this.:ugh:

[TopTup]

We're all geniuses in hindsight.

VA was on planning desk approximately 2 years ago, at least. DJ advertised for interest in long haul positions on their recruitment web site at about 15 months ago. Calls, emails, etc for interviews began around Dec 07 for air crew positions. Fuel prices were getting higher and higher.

[Dates are an educated guess of course! I'm sure someone knows better.]

In the mean time the world has suffered a huge economic recession (depression?). The first to be hit will always be "luxury" items such as overseas holidays.

To say that VA are stupid to have even attempted to start up I do not think is fair from kowing what was happening over 2 years ago to now. I'm sure mangement in their infinite wisdom (hmmmm....) are !!!!!ting themselves and trying to make things work. Nice of some to find somewhere to kick when the chips are down.

TexanPilot - couldn't agree more.

[wirgin blew]

I think VB are to far committed to stop this thing going now. The frames are on order, the training center and sim set up, the crew are all getting paid. They need to start flying ASAP to stop the cash outflows and start generating some inflows. If it works the way that it works for QF then it could end up supporting VB as it has done for QF for all these years (estimated 25-30% of QF revenue). If people like the 777 more than the cattle truck (A380) then they will fill the seats. Also United could decide to call it quits on the route and hand their business to VAus.
So unless you have a crystal ball it is a rumour networkafter all.

[Back Seat Driver]

As you say WB,
If people like the 777 more than the cattle truck (A380) then they will fill the seats
From 1st hand experience the 'cattle truck' passengers on deplaning, almost without exception, commented that the machine was brilliant and 'SO QUIET'.
As it always has been, the punters will choose to fly on the convenient, cheapest option available. Whoever offers that, will fill the seats.
Good luck to one and all, but the cattle truck will be hard to beat. :ok:

[Led Zeppelin]

The projected cash flows for VA 2 years ago may well have put it above the line in terms of profitability.

But this is now a VERY different situation. The world is on the brink of a serious recession lead by the USA (bordering on depression if you read some of the more left field commentaries floating around) , commercial credit availability is, at best limited, with interest rates reflecting this tightness.

Discretionary spending on overseas travel, particularly to and from the USA is plummetting, yet this is the stuff that VA is supposed to be making money from.

Virgin Blue has its' own serious issues. It's a stand alone organisation, per seat costs now above Jetstar, limited access to cash reserves (VA will take most of this), horrendous overnight crewing accommodation costs, interest financing, brand identification etc etc.

When VB started it had clear goals, but even back then it nearly fell over. It was only Ansett's demise that gave it the kick start it needed.

Perhaps Virgin's leadership team should go back to basics and refocus the core operation to one which is at least able to survive domestically in this degraded economic climate.

As employees, we sometimes place far too much faith in the ability of managers to make the correct decisions in a timely manner.

I hope this is not a case of blindly following BG and his team as they jump off the cliff.

[Stubby]

Just the usual negativity and spin doctoring B.S i have come to expect from this forum site, same old guys same old comments:ugh::ugh:

[slice]

Care to elaborate? The negativity displayed here would be regarded as mildly optimistic compared to what is going around by those now sitting around wondering how long this operation they signed up for will last. Quietly being whispered that the VAus operation has been set up such that it can fall in screaming heap and not drag VB / PB down with it.

[mrs nomer]

Slice,

I hope you are right in that VA can fail without dragging VB/PB with it.

Interesting to find out what the VA start up costs to date have been and also what irreversible financial committments VBA has to Boeing or aircraft lessors if the thing folds?

[greenslopes]

.......... This negativity is baseless.
All Brett needs is for all the major airlines crossing the Pacific to go broke and it will be a roaring success..................................................... ............................................................ ...........................
would the last one out please turn out the lights!

[Jabawocky]

Just some news from the maternity ward, VH-VGA has been unwrapped, so its storage is over, either that or its sister ship has moved out of a paint shop, awaiting confirmation of the rego but it seems things are moving again at Boeing / VA.

Now would it not make sense for BG to be talking closely with United Airlines, codeshare and some capacity sharing, link up with a network at each end? Has this been thought of already?

J:ok:

[Kanga1]

I'm told VH-VGA will now have the rego VH-VOZ.

[Sand dune Sam]

stubby..didnt you realise it? They are all experts here:ok:

[greenslopes]

Well for you guys who seem content to throw stones at those throwing stones, have you anything to add or are you just the critics critic.

Even those with the thickest rose coloured glasses would have to wonder over launching a new airline into the quietest part of the year(having missed the Christmas rush) into an economy leading the world into the direst economic time since the 1930's.

I'm no accountant but things do not add up here?

[7378FE]

Now would it not make sense for BG to be talking closely with United Airlines, codeshare and some capacity sharing, link up with a network at each end? Has this been thought of already?

V Australia will interline with Northwest for domestic US sectors.

[Jabawocky]

That may be so, however a codeshare deal with United would make more sense, just like the BA/QF system on the routes to the UK.

Northwest is not currently flying the Pacific.

And if you were going to link up with the rest of the USA would Southwest be a better option?

J

[Kanga1]

V australia also have access to Virgin Blue and Virgin America.

[Jabawocky]

The link at VB is a no brainer but Virgin in yankee land is not much of a network.

United have a large network and may well wish to reduce some services and codeshare with VAus........ maybe? Has anyone ever asked?

[airtags]

Like all - fwd bookings on the Pac route are down - and the NSR on transpac ops has been steadily falling for all carriers. Reality is that it just is not the goldmine it once was.

Intell says that the Jan-March qtr is particularly low for inbounds ex West coast and this will be further compounded by the continued decline in the US domestic market - without a strong [profitable] feeder network/alliance your primary market is constrained. Codeshare is more about reciprocal revenue chanels than just swapping seat capacity.

It's going to be a hard call for the VB Board, especially given the cash pressures on the domestic business and the planned reduction (sic; Brettspeak - 'adjustment') in ops - but even more worrying for those VA crews that are sitting on the sideline waiting for the chance to run on.

Hope they get a chance to at least give it go.

[mrs nomer]

Airtags is right - code shares are fine in theory, but you still need bums on seats at reasonable fare levels to drive the yield.

If the yield aint there, there's no point in going on with it.

Brett better have his thinking cap on - a few people have jumped ship from good jobs to go to VA. They are the ones who deserve a positive outcome here.

[Jabawocky]

A little Birdie tells me that the first one is likely to be delivered end of Dec or early Jan 09. Given that they are a slick dispatch these days this date range should be close to the mark.

A Happy New Year gift to all at Virgin I reckon!;)

J:ok:

[dirty deeds]

Kanga1,

I was told that the original two aircrafts rego's were chosen and painted onto the new aircraft without having been registed first with CASA, Jetstar had already reserved the rego's VAus wanted, and the aircraft had to be re-painted with the correct rego's, if this is the case, it does not surprise me.

A little birdy also told me that for some of the pilots that have left good job's oversea's, their right to return to their previous employer is approaching it's deadline.
:ooh::ooh::ooh::ooh:

[B772]

1) Northwest Airlines are now effectively Delta.

2) Most airlines with services ex the U.S are seeing a falling off
in travel originating in the the U.S due to the dire economic
circumstances there.

[Watchdog]

dirtydeeds,
the airline I work for has now changed its' policy on the "come on back" offer, and (possibly) unfortunately for those guys, there now is no way back. Sure hoping it works out for them all.

[A. Le Rhone]

In summary, it's probably a great idea for an airline, with a good brand and complacent opposition. It's just the wrong time to do it.

Better to wait one year and start again when things are a little more fluid?

As for the employees terms and conditions however - they are just a disgrace. A new industry low and a recipe for industrial and commercial disaster.

THESE need to be scrapped and refreshed with a package that will not cause employees to become quickly disgruntled, disenfranchised and angry. The very factors that now make Qantas (and United) so unappealing and the very opposite of what Virgin is SUPPOSED to stand for.

[ZQN]

Watchdog
No change in EK 'policy' for the recent leavers. I've just checked. There isn't any restrictions in any of the VA guys applying to come back and I believe some have already done so.

[Watchdog]

ZQN,

maybe not official 'policy' as such. I was only told this week from someone 'close to the source' (B777). I hope it isn't correct - has anyone tested the case yet though and actually been resuccessful in coming back?

[Visual Procedures]

Watchdog, This is directly from the horses mouth.. From the 'rumour buster' section on the EK crew portal. The 'policy' is to welcome guys back..



There are ex Emirates Captain candidates who wish to rejoin the company after leaving Emirates a short while ago. Since they are still current, it would be sensible to direct them back to towards the type on which they have EK experience, as a DEC.
Jim Mulvaney- FMA



Whether they're taking them right now is a different matter. We're overcrewed at the moment due to late 777's with galley problems and additionally the boeing strike.

[coaldemon]

Looks like just about everyone is overcrewed right now.

[dunerider]

I have heard a couple of the EK guys who went to Jetstar may have completed the interview process however, I am not sure if they were successfull.Obviously EK doesn't have any positions at the moment so they wouldn't have been offered any positions. As far as the VA trainers are concerned I believe quite a few have reapplied to come back to EK.

[Watchdog]

Visual P,
yes, that might be written there, but the info I got comes from somewhat higher on the food chain than the FM! I guess proof will be in the pudding in due course.

[Dale Hardale]

One factor that may severely affect the viability of the Virgin group and particularly VA, is fuel hedging.

Is it true that Virgin management has hedged most of their fuel at $145 / barrel in the belief that the price was not going to drop ?

I wonder what the original VA model fuel costs were.

[stealthone]

Just checked the VOZ website. No vacancies. I guess they have enough crews...

[hongkongfooey]

Sounds like a great mob to work for at EK :confused: Pilots basically saying " up yours, I'm off to greener pastures " and when it does'nt work out, EK welcomes them back with open arms, just to save a few bucks. Screw the guys that hung around and showed some loyalty :yuk:
Nice

[RodH]

Loyalty seems to be optional to most people .
It can be explained by the following formula .

" Loyalty is inversely proportional to a better lifestyle ."

The better the new lifestyle offered the lower the loyalty to the current employer becomes .
If the lifestyle offered does not eventuate then the loyalty to the previous employer suddenly returns and increases greatly.

Most of us are only in it for what we can get out of it .
Loyalty is directly linked to salary as well.

One can also see wonderful employer examples to those who remained " loyal " when there is a financial downturn.
Loyal or not they boot you out when things are shaky .
Many years ago some companies actually cared about the welfare of their employees but , alas , that seems to have well and truly disappeared .

Loyalty verses the Holy Dollar = no contest whatever .

Don't delude yourself , Loyalty means nothing to Airline bosses in most cases .
Just remember how GD from QF treated " loyal " staff.
The only staff he showed any concern for was the one she shafted his employees with.
:sad::sad::sad:

[ACMS]

HongKongfooey..............ummmm, take a look at our own CX, they have done the same thing a lot of times. The x Oasis guys for one example.

Why do they do it?

1/ screws the rest of us
2/ screws the guys that left

A WIN WIN for them.:mad:

[kiwi engineer12]

Latest update......

Delivery of 1st A/C between the 19-26th Jan. First revenue service still planned for 29th Feb.

Will wait and see I guess.

[wallyho]

Fantastic news

any updates on the second and third aircrafts?

[Phlap1]

Unemployed Americans at one end and Aussies with a currency
down almost 40% at the other.

Branson is an optimist, but with this passenger profile the
chances of survival beyond a few months is slim.

VB pilots should be updating their resumes to EK, not
much recruiting elsewhere.

[hongkongfooey]

HongKongfooey..............ummmm, take a look at our own CX

Don't work for CX, thank christ ( well, maybe indirectly ) and I can tell you exactly what our mob say to people who leave for " greener pastures " and try to come back. In fact, I think everybody knows what the answer would be so they don't even try.

[ACMS]

lucky you.........................


We get x CX guys coming back on half their original pay.

CX management once again using the "divide and conquer" policy to great effect.:mad:

[tsalta]

I bumped (metaphorically) into a VA Cabin Crew chicky on Thursday. Yoiks!! Talk about eye candy. If the majority of the CC are all like her then VA is sure to be a raging success. The punters will flock.

[Howard Hughes]

Talk about eye candy. If the majority of the CC are all like her then VA is sure to be a raging success. The punters will flock.
I think the majority (apart from perhaps backpackers) base their decisions on slightly more criteria...:rolleyes:

No! Even back packers are price concious!:ok:

[kiwi grey]

29th February 2009?
[cough]
I hadn't realised that 2009 was a leap year. :}

[kiwi engineer12]

I hadn't realised that 2009 was a leap year.

whoops, slip of the finger. 1st revenue flight planned 27th feb.

2nd A/C delivered 2nd half of Feb, 3rd A/C delivered 2nd half of March.

supposedly...

[wallyho]

If the 3rd aircraft to be delivered in mid- March, how are they going to operate daily Syd-LAx, They will require 3 aircrafts alone on this route. On top of that, from 1st March, they are going to start BNE-LAX 3 times a week.

Can anyone verify this?

[Vorsicht]

I would suggest that maybe you should reassess your opinion of loyalty. All the ex ek guys at Vaustralia gave at least 10 years to EK, the bulk of which was training. They then went to the company and said they enjoyed working there and didn't really want to leave the company, but they wanted to move their families back home. The company thanked them for their work and commitment over the 10 or so years and said to most of them that if they ever wanted to come back, they would be most welcome.

From where i sit this is loyalty at its best. No hard feelings, no dishonesty, just the individuals and the company doing what they deem best for themselves. As it turns out, there probably isn't any positions available at EK for some time, but if and when positions arise, i would suspect EK would honour their word and take the guys back.

Anyone that thinks that anyone in the Middle East is spending their time there through loyalty is slightly misinformed. They are there simply because they are hoping to achieve a particular outcome, whatever that may be.

I would accept though that there are a few individuals and families that feel a debt toward EK because of how well EK has looked after them through times of illness or family difficulties. Some of those guys are actually loyal to the company, and i respect them for it.

V

[Mr.Buzzy]

Wallyho.
STOP CALLING THEM "AIRCRAFTS"..........:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[wallyho]

Sorry if the term i used is not appropriate in your opinion.

Do you have any insight on when the 3 "birds" will be delivered?

[Trimmed_Flaps]

Wallyho,

Why will they need 3 a/c to do a daily SYD - LAX?

When two will do.:confused:

Trimmed.

[wallyho]

Trimmed Flaps.

Thank you for your correction, my bad. The time difference between the 2 ports did my head in

[Kangaroo Court]

Ah, yeah! Don't drink and type!

Perhaps some of us should look at the example being set by an employer outside of Australia-and showing a little more gratitude and a little less attitude!

As for V-Australia, I hope it works out for everyone. It's bad to see any business fail.

[Going Boeing]

Two aircraft will allow 6 flights per week (assuming that they are scheduled to depart at the same time each day) so the third aircraft is required to achieve the "daily" service.

[farrari]

No- you only need two aircraft to do a daily service, which is what is going to take place out of Sydney. One for Bribane which will give 3 services a week with one day idle.

[7378FE]

farrari is correct, only 2 aircraft to operate a daily service on the SYD-LAX route.

A/C 1 ops days 1-3-5-7
A/C 2 ops days -2-4-6-

They alternate each week.

[greenslopes]

Owen. Thats not funny..........Time out................three minutes in your room. You can come out when prepared to admit that Qtas is the best, now off you go!

[Going Boeing]

farrari & 7378FE, as Owen said, how are they going to do prescribed maintenance such as "A" checks etc with only two aircraft operating a daily service?

[farrari]

In any 48 hr period there is around 12 hrs ''free time'' to do such checks, also when Brisbane starts there is one full Day period a week on top of time above. There would be the possibility to some in both Aus and US I guess.

[hoss]

mate, you probably needed every second of that 24 hour peroid to at best come up with that conclusion.

sorry mate but your wrong....... and if you ever think like that ever again there will be no 'time out' or 'naughty corner'. it will be straight into the leather gimp outfit for you!

;)

[dirty deeds]

I have been told that BG cannot get the finance from his original source. The original plan to keep Vaus separate from VB may be a lie. The word on the finance street is that VB will be used as collateral for the new start up!

If this is the case, boy's, it's time to update the CV's, their willing to bet the family home! God help us all. Now I do hope this operation is successful, otherwise we are all on the street!:hmm::hmm::hmm:

Can anyone update us on the number of Capts that have accepted jobs at VAUS, because at VB, the COO wants to meet with the Training Department and talk to Senior Pilots about VAUS. Is there crewing issues or not? If so, I think it's time the V pilots and VB pilots started talking, reduce the divide and concur and take advantage of a "read between the lines" lack of experience required by management for the V operation?

[mrs nomer]

Dirty Deeds,

As much as I think the whole VA concept is totally flawed in the current climate, BG must have got the finance some time ago to cover the existing 777 orders. This finance would have been based on very different sets of numbers and forecasts.

If VB has been hocked to the eyballs to cover VA, surely there would have been some ASX notification requirements that VB would be providing security?

The only real security that VB now has is their (diminishing) cash war chest.

VA sucking the lifeblood out of VB would have a very finite time frame, and they both can't survive the leasing costs on 2 largely unfilled triplers without an outside injection of funds.

[Spelling Police]

mrs nomer,

What are 'eyballs'? Should you have checked your spelling with your, eyeballs?

How do you know Virgin Blue is in a position of diminishing cash reserves? V Australia as a separate company is cash negative, however at last report, Virgin Blue was cash positive.

Regards

SP

[damo1089]

Totally random, and not having anything to do with the thread title, but I just noticed something which sparked a question...
I have seen people write Qantas as QF, Cathay as CX, Etihad as EK, Tiger as TT, (you know, the letters on the start of the flight numbers) but all the time, Virgin Blue, to the PPrune community is VB, not DJ... why?

[VBA Engineer]

May be due to all of their companies (Virgin Blue, Pacific Blue, Poly Blue) use the DJ designator.

If you said DJ which would you be referring to?

[C441]

[QUOTE]Virgin Blue, to the PPRuNe community is VB, not DJ... why?/QUOTE]

Probably 'cause Ppruners are an often thirsty lot and the best cold thirst quencher happens to match the initials of said airline.:ok:

[Wiley]

Momentary thread drift alert!!

...Etihad as EK,Before someone corrects damo1089 for this apparent slip of the key finger, it may be worth saying that he might be closer to being right than, at first glance, some may think. If half the rumours curently doing the rounds in the Sandpit are to be believed, after Dec 2nd, Etihad may well be EK.

On the other hand, it may be that Emirates will be EY.

[Sunstar320]

Brisbane Ops pushed back to April 09 now

The Brisbane service had been due to launch on March 1 but the airline has been keen to better stagger the delivery of its first four planes.

"Those guests in that first five weeks, we'll be moving them down from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin Blue and then through to the US on the V Australia service."

[Wingspar]

"Those guests in that first five weeks, we'll be moving them down from Brisbane to Sydney on Virgin Blue and then through to the US on the V Australia service."

Musn't be much patronage on either service?