CityJet Life Money & Job Security

[Lafyar Cokov]

Evening!

If there are any current pilots at WX that could fill me in on the future at the company I would be most grateful - I'm after the usual - Allowances, Aircraft, Roster and Job Security. Thanks very much - PM if you wish

LC

[No_Speed_Restriction]

You joining as FO or DEC?

[Lafyar Cokov]

FO - hopefully.

[No_Speed_Restriction]

Allowances - Are good and form a big part of your monthly wages.

Aircraft - All depends what you were previously flying, Im assuming this is your first Jet type in which case good progression. If not....erm:oh:

Roster - You will start on a flexi roster but as you are building your hours I can only assume youre happy to be flexible whilst building quality hours.

Job Security - Only the "man upstairs" can answer that but it seems as one of the most stable operators in the current market.

[Lafyar Cokov]

NSR - thanks very much - helpful info indeed!

If I were to be LCY based how many nights away could I expect - are there alot of 'tours' or do you return each day? Also how many sectors a day is normal? Thanks again

LC

[No_Speed_Restriction]

could be 8,10,12 nights away per month..who knows. 3/4 sector days not uncommon.

[Lafyar Cokov]

Thanks very much No_Speed very helpful stuff!

[brownstone]

Caution!!
LCY= UK tax if you are resident in UK permanently..
Caution!!

[Lafyar Cokov]

Thanks for that Brownstone - I was under the impression that it was Irish Tax, irrespective of where you were based/lived! Interesting!

LC

[No_Speed_Restriction]

it is irish tax. you pay your tax through the irish system; relax.

[brownstone]

Yeah LC, no-one tells you that at Cityjet...

You do pay to the Irish via PAYE (ie direct from your salary).

This is very strange since LCY based pilots/cabin crew are NOT resident in Eire, most are permanently resident in the UK.. hence the base there.

If you are resident in the UK you are liable for UK tax, simple as that. So you must sort out your tax affairs in the UK.

Ryanair pilots based in the UK are going through the same thing with UK taxman.

Much more to tell, but am reluctant to do so online, drop me a PM.

B.

or you could "relax", bury your head in the sand....and hope everything is OK.

[Mister Geezer]

CityJet have already been caught with their trousers down with the former CDG base and how ex CDG crew were allegedly paid Irish tax, yet based in France. This is apparently why the CDG base was closed down.

It Irish tax is paid for LCY crew then it can only be a matter of time until the UK Inland Revenue are on to them. You would think they would learn from the past???

Cityjet is still expanding and Air France wants BA CityFlyer out and vice versa so Air France and BA will keep throwing cash at their LCY subsidiaries until there is a winner! All depends on which airline has deeper pockets!

or you could "relax", bury your head in the sand....and hope everything is OK.

Asking for trouble if you adopt that approach!

Cheers

[No_Speed_Restriction]

At the end of the day, if you are all right in your concerns, I would have no problem paying my tax in the UK. Further investigation is warranted.

[Mister Geezer]

It is quite simple really. If you are LCY based and spend more than the stipulated number of days in the UK per year, then you are required to pay UK tax. The exact details can be found on the Inland Revenue website but from memory we are roughly talking about having to spend at least half of the year in the UK to qualify for paying tax. In the past, traveling days to and from the UK did not count towards this total but I am led to believe that days spent traveling to and from the UK do count to the total number of days spent in the UK. I suspect that there could well be a tax agreement between Ireland and the UK.

The days of using tickets or indeed rosters to prove when you were or were not in the country are numbered by the sounds of things. Someone could buy a ticket but never use it and rosters can often change, so the Inland Revenue are keen to see hard evidence such as copies of bank statements which can show if you withdrew currency whilst abroad etc.

If you elect to adopt the approach of 'they will never find me' and do not wish to pay UK tax when you are required to then I would advise you not to do this. CityJet is a well known brand and a large company so it is only a matter of time until the Inland Revenue are onto them so that they can check that all is above board with its LCY based employees. It is the crew members responsibility to sort this out so that they are paying the right tax.

[RB311]

there appears to be a lot of tax experts on this site! this is a pilots' forum.

[No_Speed_Restriction]

$od the waiting game; better off asking the tax office myself (dont like surprises at the end of the tax year)

[RB311]

why not! prod the lion in the ear with your stick....

[No_Speed_Restriction]

how poetic :D

[Mister Geezer]

there appears to be a lot of tax experts on this site! this is a pilots' forum

I would rather be a step ahead of the tax man rather than the other way round. I am by no means a tax expert either!

I did a little research into the rules since I used to spend a large portion of my working roster abroad, so I was keen to see what one would have to do to become exempt from paying income tax in the UK. It's a bit of a minefield!

[Alan Quay]

Ok, firstly, the difference between Irish and UK tax is very little in every aspect. The French situation was very different as the social was huge. Not the same difference twixt the UK and ireland.
Also the Tax agreement between the two countries should be looked at, so should the European law of transport workers being taxed in the country where the business is registered.
The bottom line is........... as there is so little difference between UK and Irish tax there will be no big surprises on the horizon. If you are forced to pay UK tax you can claim back the Irish you have paid or due to the dual taxation agreement you could claim back the difference.
Chillax!!

[JB10]

Hi Guys,

If the figures on PPJN are accurate and with UK tax, would it be correct in saying that Cityjet FO's and Capt's are on a better pay deal/roster to Cityflyer?

I am trying to decide between the two, any current pilots feel free to PM.

Thanks for your help

Cheers

[Mister Geezer]

JB10

CityJet win hands down for money against CityFlyer. It is a 'no brainier' when it comes to who pays the best!

Alan Quay

The bottom line is........... as there is so little difference between UK and Irish tax there will be no big surprises on the horizon.

Until the Inland Revenue catch on to what is happening! :ok:

[Capt.Paul Skinback]

Loved working for them in Dublin. Only one problem- Jack the Knife. Beware!

[acebaxter]

Only one problem- Jack the Knife. Beware!"Jack the Knife" "Dave the Smiling Assassin" Tony, I can't remember what people have called him, sorry Tony. I always get a good laugh out of remarks like these. All three of them were always open and honest with me and I enjoyed working with them. I left for the money and rosters.

Funny, that's the same reason I left the last airline. I'm beginning to sense a pattern here.......

[Sergeant Pepper]

Air France = Job Security,no brainer really!most people need to ride out this economic madness thats going on..might not be the best rosters in the world but 1 to 2 years of living with a :mad: roster is not the end of the world..............

[No_Speed_Restriction]

Here's a new equation:

Job Security=Being none the wiser whilst important decisions/re-structuring are made around you.

[saucy jack]

Are they still actively looking for Direct Entry Captains from a turboprop background? I seem to meet the hours requirements mentioned on PPJN.

If anyone else here has made this transition as a captain direct from t/prop to RJ how did you find it? It strikes me as a good opportunity as a first jet but what practical difficulties might one expect? Any comments/experiences gladly received.

I realise there is much talk of the rosters...would the staff travel arrangements mean there could be any realistic hope of commuting from southern france within the present roster pattern?

[5Papa]

would the staff travel arrangements mean there could be any realistic hope of commuting from southern france

Possible, but hard. You have to commute in your own time. And especially in the beginning you could get alot of 6/2 rosters with early start and late finish. So prepare..!

Good luck.

[Teddy Robinson]

"especially in the beginning you could get a lot of 6/2 rosters with early start and late finish."

Best be aware that the pattern above is the standard model irrespective of length of service.

The chances of you finishing early before days off and starting late after your days off are negligible.

In practical terms, you will have missed the late flight home, so would travel on your first day off and would have to come back on your second for the early start.

[5Papa]

Teddy, I agree. Just don't tell me that people on the fixed roster are on 6/2.

[No_Speed_Restriction]

would prefer a 5/3.

[5Papa]

You're kidding? ;)

[seasexsun]

1) how many sectors per day do you fly in cityJet?
2) what is the salary for a FO? Can you explain:
- Basic salary after tax
- sector pay you get vs hours flown in one month
3) dont we get bored of such a poor network?
4) can you explain retirement scheme?
thank you for your answers.

[lfrk]

6/2 yes, a direct entry would get that almost for a year before the fixed 6/3 why?:confused:

easy, you join = ground course for 2 months, then line trainning for almost 2 months (maybe more due to all the !!!! they do in crewing) and finally you are get the fixed roster 6 months after the line check !!!!


2+2+6= 10 so almost a year !! :Dhehe YES they lied to you during the inteview :yuk:!!!

how many O/N ?? as much as they can roster you !! on average 15 a months, ok you make a lot of money but socially = nothing !!

think before you join after its to late!!

:=do not join if you think to be at home a lot, join to make a lot of money for sure or JOIN if its you 1st experience. And finally join if you have nothing else

good luke !!

[seasexsun]

join to make a lot of money for sure


WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY MAKE A LOT OF MONNEY, PLEASE, PLEASE?

Can you tell the:
- basic salary after tax
- the amount of money you get with the overnights
-the sector pay and how many sector can you do per day/month


Thank you for your reply!

[No_Speed_Restriction]

seasexsun, youve just been given good info; stop sounding like a flying whore :=

[seasexsun]

sorry but there is no accurate answer to my questions... it seems that you are not very proud of answering this type of questions. basic salary in cityjet is extremely low and it increases by working a lot and doing many overnights (per diems actually given to pay your own food in the hotel, if you dont spend it, you have more money on your account but you eat pinuts and you live like a rat.)

Thank you I will not apply to that :mad: company :}

[DinoCraft9]

Yeah!

very good! so you already knew the answers to your questions...
I wish you the best luck when applying who knows to what companies! There's a lot of offers right now!:}

Cheers

[seasexsun]

thanks godd I am in company with lots of aircraft, operating atr, md (for real madrid) and B737s :ok:
Far from be perfect but not worse than cityjet. And based somewhere sunny and warm, it's important for your health :p

[DinoCraft9]

Then I'd say that you work for Swiftair...:confused: a great company, no doubt!
If not yet, you know where you'll be based from time to time if you get to fly the MD80, sunny indeed!:}

Good luck!

[DinoCraft9]

And I guess your interest to find out the conditions at WX was just out of curiosity...wasn't it? just to confirm that yours are much better:hmm:

Anyway, good luck again!

[seasexsun]

MD80s captain salary 15000€/month, but I prefer to wait the promotion on the B737 at Madrid :ok:

My post here were as a reaction to some of people saying cityjet is great company. I asked for explaination but suddenly there is no reply :hmm: :hmm:
I have friend cabin crew in cityjet they are not very happy (:mad: network, :mad:base, OPS, :mad: planification) and bad atmopshere.
Enjoy cold and rain and expensive london my friend.
un abrazo:cool:

[baby hormones]

Anyone know if Cityjet have officially stopped recruitment like everyone else?

Cheers

[5Papa]

I only know that training of new flight deck is full (10-14 guys/girls each 5 weeks) for the next 6 months.

[DinoCraft9]

15.000€ a month? :bored: maybe the month the have to spend in Sudan...
I know some guys there and although no too unhappy, they recognize the pay doesn't compensate the nightmare in Sudan. btw they don't volunteer for that!
Anyway, I won't play your game, I won't defend Wx basically cause it's not my business but let me tell you that ':mad:' is a very disrespectful word to define a company with much better discipline than yours, I wonder how you'd describe how things are done at SWI :oh:

Regarding the weather, you're right, much better in Spain, even better in Sudan! enjoy it! and enjoy DGAC as well! :ugh: and btw enjoy your S226, E120 or Atr while waiting for an upgrade to a 737 now that they can get as many 737 pilots from FUA as they like. Not a great time for aviation in Spain sadly.

Don't take it personally but if you give this figures somebody could get confused and think that SWI is a great place to work!:ok:

[seasexsun]

Dinocraft 9, obviously the dark, cold and wet weather is not good for your mood. I don't now, get out of your bedsite, and go for some jogging in london city between drunk and druged and depress people! go to eat fish and ship, its not good for colesterol but it's smells strong.

You know probabaly better my company than I know, but whatever you want to say, you shoud better open a thread on my company and discuss about it. The sad thing is this thread is about CITYJET LIFE MONEY AND SECURITY, and instead of answering question I ask to clarify, you dont answer at all (shame on you) and you appear only to scream on my company, but, hey, this IS NOT the topic!!!!
Now I have to go it's another perfect day to go out with friends. :cool:
By the way SWT prefers some internal moves for reasons you seems to ignor :)... and I have never go to sudan. B737s fly for DHL europe. ;)

I wish you to be happy my friend.

[DinoCraft9]

Last reply to you:

Shame on you for being so disrespectful and bad mannered, I am sorry if don't have the education to express yourself in a more polite way according to the rest of the posts here, this is not extracrew.com!:=

I do not want to know more than I do of your company, it's more than enough but what I know for sure is that you had to pay for your TR.:ouch: At Wx you don't, but you have to pass a fair selection process not based on your budget but on some attributes you seem to lack.

This is not a post about SWI and I'm not pretending it to be, my replies are about the way you judge and critisize the others when you're not able to get the info by yourself:{. I'd suggest you to have a look at ppjn.com to find out what's the basic salary and the sector allowance in WX. Maybe if you had been nicer and more humble you would have got what you asked for...


Hasta nunca!

[seasexsun]

here it come the stupid answer: "have a look on ppjn.com"...
I suggest we close down PPRUNE.com because ppjn is so fantastic although it does NOT answer to the questions I ask about CITYJET (what is the basic salary after englsih tax? how much you earn if you get seek and cant fly like a rat doing so many nightstops in a bedroom with no food?), You're lack of answer is a big answer anyway and it confirm the what my spanish friends (cabine crew) think about this :mad: company! :}:ok:

Have a loong and peaceful carrere in cityjet, London.

slds

[Teddy Robinson]

If you had bothered to read some of the posts, you would have gathered that tax is not paid in the UK but in Ireland.

Whatever you point is, foul language will not help you get the answers you are looking for.

If you are that interested in what the wage scales are perhaps you should call the company and ask them.

TR

[Jetfella]

This has really descended in to a cat fight! I wont add to it,simply to say the tax thing in London will be an interesting reveal for Gordon Brown when he comes looking,and he will do.Its not only the French who want their pound of flesh!,Im quite amused also,as to how upset some WX lovers get by the posts here.Any negative towards WX,and theyre livid,losing sleep,lashing out with pathetic diatribes,do you really think its that important?
As another has suggested,in these days,although WX is crap,better to have a job,take the money,keep your head down,and in a couple of years,move.Providing there are jobs available.At the moment,crap is better than nothing,
ciaoza.

[saucy jack]

To those who responded to my earlier query, I thank you.

To our colleague SSS, might I suggest this is not the time to tell us how great things are in sunny Spain when another of your airlines appears to have gone down the tubes today and many people are doubtless concerned for their future.

[Jetfella]

Coming soon!,2+2 crew.I wonder why everyone is going sick lately?Could it be the fact the there is no profit share?would we be so fickle?,oh yea..why not!

[No_Speed_Restriction]

from a flight crew perspective, and for the aircraft size/pax load in question, 2+2 is a more financially viable and a more operationally standard option. Sorry to sound mean but sometimes the truth hurts.

[pablod]

I have some aptitude tests with Cityjet next week. The only details I have been given are;

The tests are (non aviation related) Technical Abilities Tests and a Personality Questionnaire. You do not need to bring anything with you, as all items will be provided. The tests will take approximately 4 hours.

Can anyone shed some light on what is involved? Any help appreciated.

Many thanks.

[rubymurray]

Hi, will also be down next week for the aptitude testing.

Regarding flying with CityJet, going in as a non type rated FO will I have to pay for my own RJ rating or will there be some sort of bond involved?

Thanks

[Rene Pedersen]

Hey

You will most likely be bonded €25.000 for 3 years with a monthly reducing bond. Also during training you will only get 50% basic pay and after your line check you will get 75% basic pay until the end of the first year.

Rene

[Boeing100]

I'm reviving the thread a bit, but my question has been unanswered. I'm going through the process of assessments with cityjet/fte right now and only have 1 phase to go.
I found on the internet that the base salary for SO or FO is both around 25,000 to 26,000 euros p.a.
In previous posts, it says if you work hard doing overnights ect.. you get a lot of money. How much p.a can you estimate to earn on a 6/2 roster with cityjet including the base salary AFTER tax and all the bonuses?

thanks

[5Papa]

As LCY based SO, this year, in december I will have received E24000,- basic salary after tax, plus E21000,- sectorpay which is taxfree. So that makes E45000. I will have flown 620 hours, most of the time on a 6/3 roster. Average of 4 SBY's a month. Used all of my 27 annual leave days.

Happy landings

[Boeing100]

thanks a lot for the quick response, it's exactly the info I was looking for.

take care & safe flying :ok:

[Condor]

I see that PPJN is now quoting a fixed roster of 5/2 from 1 Feb this year. Is this correct - and what has happened to the 6/3 from 6 months after line check? This seems quite a degradation?

[No_Speed_Restriction]

Ive been put on a 6/3 6 months after line check so it still exists. I think the 5/2 may be an option some people want to go for.