Well, you will hear from them shortly. They are on the air.

Jet Republic (http://www.whitejets.com/)

From The Times Online:

here (http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article4812758.ece)

Apparently their unique selling pint is ..... decent espresso :ok:

Summary:
- $1.5 billion order for 110 Lear jets (no time scale stated)
- Target the 3 million high net worth types in Europe/Russia (growing by 250K next year, despite credit crunch)
- UK and Eire will be biggest markets
- Prices to match Netjets EU (and based out of Portugal too!)

etc etc

iX

Not interested in Jet republic?

reportreaching.

I sent you two PM's asking why you had posted simply "Jet Republic. Here. " in the Whitejets thread and then started another thread saying exactly the same thing. As you did not reply and I had no idea what your point was I closed the thread and deleted your misplaced comment. If you don't answer me I can't help you.

Also. Generally speaking the members of this forum prefer to read something longer than three words.

Another start-up basing itself in Portugal?

Makes sense I suppose. There are dozens of ex-Netjets ops people kicking around down there. Cheap supply of staff though I wouldn't be relying on some of the training ;)

They mobbed Farnborough and double parked N60LJ outside the terminal today. 'ooligans!

Aha, so this setup and whitejets are the same thing, took me a while to figure it out:ooh:

Duck,
I didn´t see your pm´s and when i was going to say something more, the post it was closed.
Now , i think you´ve realized why i posted first in WhiteJets topic and then i opened a new one because i thought it was interesting.
Yes, maybe everybody is very busy and i was giving information in a very strange way.
No problem anyway. I better stay reading...
Cheers

Any news of requirements, pay, package, all the important things that someone looking for a serious career change would be interested in?

Well reportreaching I saw both your posts and wondered what the hell you were on about too. I also see that there is another thread on here about your friend's company. ;) You can't blame the moderators for you not checking your inbox. Anyway, don't PPRuNe have rules about advertising?

Buttie Box. Whatever terms and conditions you are promised (if this venture gets that far) get them in writing and have a friendly employment lawyer check it for you. Given the track record of some of the people involved you need to be careful.

Copied, thank you. Sounds a bit like, "Son of Netjets." Who knows, that might be where aviation is heading for the next 10 years or so. I have a well-paid job at the moment but would happily sacrifice it for something that didn't mean crossing 48 time-zones per month and getting only 2 days off in between ULH flights.

Also from The Times:

"As oil prices creep upwards and airlines fight for survival, could this be the world's most ill-timed business launch?"

Looks like the CEO is a former Netjets Europe pilot. Additionally, many other senior employees (including the CFO and head of operations) spent time at NJE.

I watched the main video on the website and I was surprised to hear the CEO say that the Lear 60XR is unmatched in its capabilities. Really? He also mentioned that there is nothing faster on the market. Is he not familiar with the Citation X?

It will be interesting to watch as NJE, Jet Republic and Vista Jet start to actively compete in the marketplace. Were there any estimates on when Jet Republic would actually start hiring pilots?

Smeagle has been busy since he left NJ. Good website though.

Also CEO was heard to state on BBC Radio 4, after extolling the virtues of said espresso...."most private jets only offer stale sandwiches and flasks of rubbish coffee...." Really ? which private jets would these be then??? What a w*****r !

:ugh::ugh::ugh:

The Jet Republic website claims that the Lear 60XRs will be staffed by flight attendants. Isn't that airplane a bit small for a flight attendant? Won't that limit the number of passengers, bags, etc. that can be carried? Sure, that would improve the comfort of the passengers on flights with 1-4 passengers (it would be nice to be pampered) but it could be a tight squeeze if you have more people flying and you are servicing a short airstrip where aircraft weight is a big consideration.

Do you think the selection of the Lear 60XR was based on performance/capabilities or merely availability of aircraft in the near-medium term? Could Jet Republic have ordered a comparable number of airplanes from Cessna (i.e., XLS or Sovereign) or Raytheon (Beechjet or 800XPC) in the same time frame? Probably not.

My guess is that Bombardier is involved. Interesting that they are mentioned nowhere and have possibly decided to remain in the sideline. Wonder why?

Maybe lack of confidence in the project? Maybe still gun shy after Flex Jet Europe? Both?.

Don't know much about the Lear 60. Think its nice piece of kit but with some considerable limitations, mainly runway performance. I think that it hasn't sold very well and Bombardier probably is willing to make some good "internal" deals on it. I am quite sure it's much easyer to get your hands on a new 60 than other similar types. Unlike other manufacturers, I get the feeling that Bombardier has more production capability than demand for the 60.

If it works, this could be a cushi deal for both partyes.

Surprising though that they" ordered "110 of the same type. Fleet commonality is good, but some clients might only need or be able to afford a lear 40, and others might want a 300, 605 or Global.

What seems clear is that it will be Bombardier Aircraft. The one that has been left out by Net Jets.

By the way, anyone know what pay and conditions will be?

Vista Jet in Europe also ordered a bunch of Bombardier aircraft including 13 Lear 60XRs (firm with more options):

VistaJet - Press - Official Press Releases 2008 (http://www.vistajet.com/en/press08.php?news=4)

I agree that there is a trade off between economies of scale with a huge number of Lear 60XRs and the need to appease the requests for greater/smaller capacity from owners and card holders. A Vista Jet owner can use a Lear 60XR one day and a Challenger 300 another day if they need the additional lift. NJE offers similar flexibility with their diverse fleet.

We'll see if the global economy holds up providing a market for these fractional carriers going forward. Now is perhaps not the best time to start a capital-intensive fractional business. Time will tell...

I agree that more details would be nice. Do people have more specifics on hiring plans, pilot bases, actual start-up date, etc.?

Seems a little like NJ USA and Flex jet situation maybe.

I may have missed a trick but on their website they offer a range of aircraft on a pre-pay block hour basis. With so many 60XR's that may cover the medium range, but surely then who will supply the global aircraft etc? Will that be an approved supplier listing?

Surely (although fairly expensive) to sell block hours in aircraft you have to charter is fairly risky as you cannot guarantee good availability to quality ratio (whilst flying the customer under your own banner), i.e via operators you would not want to use, I certainly know there are operators I would never dream of putting my customers near!

a tired FBP!

They must be getting a very good deal from Bombardier. They won't be going into quite a few strips Netjets can get into, though, what with needing approximately 6000 feet commercially, if memory serves correctly. Quite a disadvantage right from the outset, one would think?

The Lear60 is a great Plane for the Pilots to fly.
But Landing distance is a Nightmare.

It uses the undercarriage of the lear 31/35 (even 25?) Series and the wings of the Lear 55.

Could be a great plane, but is not unfortunately.

Compared to an XL there is as well a few inch of Cabin Hight missing..... Wouldnt wanna be a FA in there :rolleyes:

In the good old days red "Bleed Overheat" warning was pretty often indicated. Problem maybe solved... :}

Yeah, that's what I heard about the Lear 60 - big landing distance issues. Does anyone know if LCY will be out of the question for Jet Republic owners? I assume so. Why buy a share in a Lear 60XR if you are going to be so restricted? Swiss ski resorts will also be difficult - I guess taking a limo from ZRH during the winter to your favourite ski destination would be the expectation.

Still, the Lear 60XR looks like a nice airplane to fly. I am just surprised that Jet Republic would put all of their eggs in one basket and not provide some mission flexibility. I would think NJE will exploit this flexibilty weakness and point it out. If availability of aircraft were not an issue, I would think a fleet of Citation Sovereigns would have provided the most bang for the buck - bigger cabin than the Lear 60XR (more room for a FA) and better short field performance from what I hear. Plus, LCY would not be a big issue and you could probably fly pretty far from LCY with its range depending upon loads, weather, etc. The Sovereign would have been a good choice if it were available (and Cessna was willing to cut a deal).

Iver, brilliant detective work!:D

You're right that the 60XR cannot use LCY. I guess Jet Republic waited to announce their arrival on the scene till such a time that there was such a downturn in the financial sector that no-body at Canary Wharf has any money left to buy a card. Therefore they are not bothered that they cant be picked up after work on a Friday without a 2 hour drive!!

Sovereign can do St. Johns, Las Vegas with a tech stop out of LCY. 60XR's and premier 1's are probably the only "white tail" biz jets you can buy right now without a 24month wait.

No point having a good idea and then waiting 3 years for the equipment, theres been more 680's delivered since mid 2004 than 750's since 1998 so I thinks you're quite right that Cessna aren't going to play ball on anything.

Maybe a bit of pressure put upon them from NetJets perhaps ;)

Sovereigns got a nice field performance. I actually did the first C680 landing in LCY - no prob even at max landing. Out also at max weight. Great second segment - I guess thats only beaten by - the 60.
LCY is 'owned' by NJE anyways. So for the sorry rest of us, its good news, if big NJE leaves an airport slot or two open, we might be able to get one!

From what I hear Cessna is sold out until at least 2011 on the Sov. But if you´d take 100 of em? But then Bombardiers Flexjet would not hop on the train...

Maybe a bit of pressure put upon them from NetJets perhaps No need for pressure: if you are Cessna and you can sell your aircraft at full price to small operators or with a quantity discount to a large and proven operator.... or to an unproven company with no customers while the market is hot..... I guess it is a no brainer...

Bombardier on the other hand only seems to sell them to their inhouse fracs operator or people who still get turned on by the name Learjet.Which was a great brand but the current productline now is cr@<hidden> compared to the alternatives.... only the new Lear 85 looks promising the rest is outdated.... :{

Erm, not wanting to really add much to the debate, but why would you launch a company a full 12 months before your first aircraft is due if you have all the money in the world to buy the aircraft? Wouldn't it be better to have the product in place, take a hit in year one on the revenue but at least have something that you've pumped up available to be used and tried?

What do you do with the customers who sign up in the meantime? Sub-charter them out? OK, so those customers get 12 months of experiencing that "most private jets only offer stale sandwiches and flasks of rubbish coffee...." before getting onto an aircraft which can't operate at the UK's most business-centric airport, LCY, and experiencing espresso and blackberry connectivity?

I too saw JB's interview on CNN and was surprised with the competition bashing marketing - not the way to go in our industry if you want everyone's support. To say that we're doing what NetJets do, at NetJets pricing but with coffee, a hostie and blackberry access just seemed a pretty negative campaign. It will be interesting to see how NJE respond - I can't think they're that bothered at the moment given that they've pretty much grabbed the majority of that market (not complacent, just not bothered at the moment).

Ho hum, I'm obviously never going to be a multi-millionnaire, I question too much. I need to have a "**** it, let's gamble" attitude...

Read about jetrepublic in the papers today and was so delighted i planned to send them an application. Then i came across this page on their website:

Jet Republic : Sitemap (http://www.jetrepublic.com/sitemap)

And guess who has his fingers in there ? You may have guessed it the dark master (D M) :eek: himself.
Folks steer well clear of that outfit for as long as he and his cronies are involved.

Flintstone your two cents worth ?

Any more details regarding working with DM? Why would he leave such a good job at NJE as a PIC on the Falcon 2000EX? More background please - PMs welcome.

Beyond offering a hostie, ability to use blackberries and pricing comparable to NJE, what do Jet Republic offer that is unique? It only offers one aircraft type (inflexible for owners who need more or less capacity) and the aircraft has serious landing/TO restrictions that limit where the aircraft can fly (LCY is out of the question). I just found this statement on their website:

"When you need multiple jets or a different size aircraft, we’ll provide you with a selection from our extended fleet."

Does that mean that they will offer aircraft other than the Lear 60XR? Will that mean subcontracting out for larger/smaller aircraft when required? Will those operators provide the same level of high-class service?

Unless share prices are considerably less or customer service is considerably better (as they claim - an end-to-end concierge service), I don't see why someone would consider owning a share in a Jet Republic Lear 60XR vs. a NJE XLS or Hawker 800XPC (both of which can serve LCY).

What is the unique value proposition for the potential owner? Is having a hostie on a Lear 60XR really worth the lack of flexibility associated with the aircraft?

I wish them luck and I would like to see the operation "fly" because it will create jobs throughout Europe if it reaches it potential - plus, the Lear 60XR looks like a fun aircraft to fly. With that said, competing against an already entrenched and flexible NJE (i.e., fleet diversity) will not be easy.

Ok I bite...

What bombardier can offer when you are signing a letter of intent of 100+ aircrafts? Access to their timeshare program may be ?
Even if Vista Jet bought the operations and that everyone is holding breath among skyjet operators, more aircrafts is more aircrafts in the program as a consequence a better coverage of the playgrounds.

Choosing only one type makes it easier for scheduling and training no ? One marketing niche, good coverage, even CNN !!, for a Lear 60 operator ????
Being compared to NetJets Challenger is in itself a good launch whatever it is done behind...
Not being able to do LCY.....Well, if it is REALLY an issue I do think that some operators would love to subrogate the flight, even outside Skyjet if necessary. The question is more on what will be left in the City after the storm..

On another post , there is a question about why a pic on a F2TH ESy would leave Netjets, well not only PIC but also everything in between to the CEO hat. If he left, he had his own reason, starting another company is a good one enough. We had other F2TH ESy PIC who left, and that was not to start an outfit but to fly the same aircraft somewhere else.
A company is worth what you put in it, an outstanding package for one could be a nightmare for another one.
I did not see the Terms and conditions for crews on their website, until this is depicted in public... wait and see...

One Billion is the minimum figure to start with, but adding a little bit more money and they could have get the Santullli share of whole Netjets, I read that he would consider offers starting at one billion... not bad.. any takers ?

Vista Jet is currently operating and it has better fleet diversity (and therefore flexibility for owners) than Jet Republic. Again, I would like to better understand what they have to offer that is different (beyond hostie, blackberry service, etc.). Is their concierge service going to be so much better than any competing service?

In the meantime, are there any specific start up details with regard to pilot hiring at Jet Republic? I have seen nothing to date. I presume it will have to offer something similiar to NJE package if they expect to attract "some of the best pilots in the world."

I hear they plan to have VERY good coffee - that will no doubt seal the deal :ok:

They're just taking over where Skyjet left off. Obvious. Lots of ex-Skyjet people there apparently. Good luck to them.

Lear 60XR is unmatched in its capabilities.

You obviously haven't tried landing one in the rain at Florence :eek:

"Sorry sir but we can't land in Samedan because the runway isn't long enough, can i interest you in a coffee?"

The difference is coffee and a blackberry connection? Mmmm and a 24 hour notice period for flight in Europe. Isn't netjets 10 Hours? Hows that offering greater flexibility.

Ooh, bitch.

I'm sorry we can't get you into LCY, but we will serve the same coffee in the taxi, when we drive you for 2 hours after landing in Luton!:O

Anyway, I wonder how this operation will develop in the future.

Can't wait for the first replies from pilots actually working there!

Have a good day y'all.
N.:ok:

Will LCY be an option for Jet Republic Owners?

Sure...with a 100kt headwind, dry runway, zero pax, 100lbs of fuel and an arrester hook.

Ooh, I'm feeling catty today.

Maybe they've got the new ultra-effective Learjet anchor mod which you deploy on short final. JB will be able to tell us, he is the London City specialist after all isn't he Flinty!!!!

Talking of dropping anchors, I new I'd forgotten something this morning, must dash.

And, Smeagels Boyfriend, how did it go....?!

N.:ok:

Just read the article in Flight International about Banana Republic....interesting. I don't think it is smart slagging off the established competition in the press, it looks cheap. And, if your only selling point is espresso coffee and Blackberry connectivity you better be sure they work all the time. In my experience the cabin items are the first things to fail.

I'm going to watch with interest, I think they may encourage us all to improve our onboard services. I will, however, never work for them...I know JB and DM all too well.

Netjets will blow them away when competing head to head on fractional sales. As they did with Flexjet ten years ago.

There is no way NJ will want to lose a single sale to these guys. Its all going to down to who has the deepest pockets and the biggest balls ;)

You write as if Netjets have the monopoly on fractional ops in Europe, which they don't.

I think you'll find that there are enough disaffected ex-NJE owners not to mention others who can negotiate better deals to ensure enough work for a few of the right companies.

As for Flexjet haven't you heard? They're planning a comeback (this week's Flight International) ;)

I will go to WH Smiths tomorrow and have a read, I'm too cheap to buy a copy! As I said, the next few years will be fun to watch.

I heard that JB used to tell anyone who would listen that his IQ was 163. He was soon know as 10 (the sum of 163) but, he couldn't work out why he was called 10 all of a sudden.

Edit: Just read the article about Flexjet...interesting. I think Mr Reid is a little more media savvy than JB.

"Fred Reid, the recently appointed president of Flexjet and Skyjet USA....says Europe now has a good appetite for fractional ownership and applauds NetJets for "laying the groundwork" and sticking with its programme - introduced in 1996 - at huge expense and in the face of overwhelming industry and consumer scepticism."

For those who wish to read the full article, follow this LINK (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/09/30/316669/flexjet-evaluates-european-re-launch.html).

I think you'll find that there are enough disaffected ex-NJE owners not to mention others who can negotiate better deals to ensure enough work for a few of the right companies. Enough to fill one hunderd aircraft... the magical number you need to start to make a profit.... (and this was before Flexjet got in again for a few years...) :}

Important announcement


From the office of FLEXJET.


To whom it may concern,


Jet Republic, in order to be successfull, will have to be renamed.
Think about Obama winning, for example.
By the way, my username is for sale (and the Learjet 60XR is a very good choice).


At your disposal I remain... bla bla

















:)

Enough to fill one hunderd aircraft... the magical number you need to start to make a profit.... (and this was before Flexjet got in again for a few years...)

Europe wide? I'd say there are easily enough people with the money to buy 'proper' shares who will not, for one reason or another, buy from Netjets. The trick of course would be bringing them all together under one umbrella. I would also query your number of 100. Fractional can and does work on a much smaller scale if the local conditions are right and any buyer that goes elsewhere is a sale lost.

Sure, Jet Republic's Lear fleet is hampered by performance and up/downgrade issues but for the owner who doesn't need to go to Samedan or New York you can bet they'll be cheaper. I can think of a number of NJE owners who fit that profile and it would be foolish to disregard that. Just remember who Republic's management team are. How much insider information on Netjets do they hold? You think people haven't raided the G drive before they left? What's a list of owners and their assets worth do you think? ;)

Netjets blind spot has always been arrogance. It comes across in the way they treat their vendors (get the fbo staff onside for example and find out what the really think of NJE) and while it won't bring the company crashing down it has and will cost them business. Relatively little here and there but no company should be allowing that to happen.

Im shure that Jet Republis and Flexjet are related. Maybe Flexjet will use Jet Republic as a separate sponge to pick up clients and in a few (3-4) years if certain targets are met, Flexjet would but Jet Republic foe a pre-agreed sum and double, triple its size overnight?
I guess the "confidentiality" clauses in the Net Jets contracts didn't apply much to some of the Jet Republic guys? I wonder if Net Jets is looking into it?

It's going to be hard for them in the early days, they don't get an aircraft until this time next year, and in the meantime have 'come to an arrangement' with Tag etc. I would have thought that if Banana Republic are subbing the work out to Tag, that the Tag sales guys will be trying to muscle in, i know thats what i'd do!!! VERY expensive way of doing it by the way.

No-one has picked up the response time yet 24 hours and 48 hours outside the European arena. NJE are 10 hours at the moment and finding that because a lot of aircraft are sat around in position with the crews on hot spare, they can fire up and go.

No matter how good the coffee is your going to have to be a VERY good salesman to bag an owner who that's happened to, and I am seeing it happen to more and more owners.

P.S Does the new nickname mean JB is Bananaman? Or would that be Bananasmeagel

Netjets blind spot has always been arrogance. It comes across in the way they treat their vendors (get the fbo staff onside for example and find out what the really think of NJE) and while it won't bring the company crashing down it has and will cost them business. Agree, that is why the purchasing guy and CEO were ousted a few years ago (and guess who is on the board of Banana Republic). Or do you recall correctly who went when and why :p

Re the FBO's you are right, the faxed changes drives them crazy and same to us (on the bb)... but it goes with the business AND wait until the new software comes in :ok:

We all know who's gone where. All the more reason for Netjets to be worried. The mistake some people there appear to be making is writing them off on the basis of their personalities.

At the risk of sounding patronising (please don't take it that way) management operate on a different level. If the current NJE management are any good they'll be ignoring the stories about flash cars and chair throwing and concentrating on what the Jet Republic team know about the inner workings of NJE and how that will be used to their advantage. It's not just the two people that everyone seems to be focussing on either, there are some very, very good people at JR whether or not you want to take them seriously. Certainly good enough to take some money away from NJE if they (JR) can survive long enough.

Laugh at them, call them names but think about this. Every penny they make at Netjets' cost moves you all further away from that company pension that's "coming".

As for the fbo's and other vendors it's got nothing to do with faxes, software or any ex-management. You really should get to know some of them, you'd be surprised.

It's not just the two people that everyone seems to be focussing on either, there are some very, very good people at JR whether or not you want to take them seriously. Certainly good enough to take some money away from NJE if they (JR) can survive long enough.

This is very true, but the one who decided to put those two on the business card for the key-positions in the company should be aware that he is taking away a considerable amount of highly qualified people working for NTA right now and prospects too. A few of them are willing to change. However, if they have a spark of sense in their brains left, then they rather stay where they are. Just because of those two which are discussed here instead of the good start-up idea. It appears somewhat contraproductive. It might have been a better idea to put others in the front and let THEM do their Job in the background. But a guy like JB will always look for the mainstage, italian cars, TV, and so on. Both were kicked away from NTA disappeared and are now seeking the neighborhood again? Crusaders looking for revenge?
I consider this at least a questionable strategic move, possible prospects and shareholders can read, even this forum and if I had the choice to spend such an high amount of money, then I would choose wisely and not with a trace of doubt in my mind about the competancy of their seniors. Smart they are, no doubt about their competencies, but they dont have what it takes to succeed.

I am more worried about the competitors doing their homework in a more appropriate fashion. Lufthansa Private Jet to name the most serious one. Strong brand, smart people, NTA knowhow which they got cheap.

Let´s wait and see, but I am confident that LPJ will make it to the top.

Totally agree with 4GnR,

Why would you want to work for JR, a startup with THOSE 2 at the helm, while in the mean time most of the bad stuff at NJE has been sorted out. Just so you can endure all the "bad old days" of NJE again in JR colours? :ugh: Not me!


At this moment I'm more wary about Luftie setting up private jet shop then JR. But, we'll see what the future brings for us all.

Why would you want to work for JR...?

You're missing the point.

While very few crew with prior knowledge will join JR there are others who will. NJE is not the sole supplier of pilots, europe is full of them. They'll find enough people, perhaps even some of those frustrated fast track captains hired by Netjets. Several I know took a large pay cut on the understanding they would be in the RH seat for only a few months. The bills are piling up, they need to earn more money.

4Green. There's no denying JB made a success of White Concierge. The investors have seen that, will have made due diligence enquiries and now know far more about him than you or I do. As they tell you at indoc these people don't get rich by being stupid.

I say again though, what about the rest of the management team? Those who keep repeating 'I wouldn't work for him/them' just aren't looking at the big picture ;) They've been canny in their hiring. Ex-NJE people with strategic knowledge and 'outsiders' with proven track records. They'll pinpoint NJE's weaknesses and work on them. Chaotic ops/catering/flight planning, money wasted making the same calls several times over.......you all know where a more efficient organisation could improve things.

I agree, their timing is questionable and it's highly unlikely they'll outgrow Netjets but as I said before they might still make a hole in the opposition's profits. Watching from a distance with nothing to lose either way is going to be entertaining.

You can't keep ignoring the fact that the Lear 60 needs nearly 6,000 ft landing distance for public transport (charter) ops into a wet runway with just 4 passengers and typically minimum NBAA-type IFR reserves. It needs nearly 5,200ft to land on a dry runway on the same basis - that in Europe wipes out the use of an awful lot of useful alternatives to the slot congested and costly commercial hubs.

It ticks lots of other boxes for go-faster pilots, but it's uncharterable for too many regional and GA options.

Oh there's a way round that*. Ask Netjets about (too) short fields and fractionally (owned) aircraft.

This isn't about charter remember.






*Flintstone Aviation Services take no responsibility for the consequences of doing this.

Hello all,

Let me say, first of all, that it is the first time that I post comments here.

In regards to what I have read on the comments above, I have to agree that it will be interesting to see the competition between the two neighbours... Few of you above ask if it is worth working to JR... Well, all companies have to start at some point. If everyone would think it is very dangerous to change jobs because a company can go wrong (indeed...) then companies would never even... start!

Now, a lot of you (at least readers) I know from speaking several times on the phone... some others had the honor to meet personally.

But, again, life is made of risks (and you guys/gals, should know that better, being pilots...) and sometimes they are necessary. How many of you would think the same way back in 1996, or even in yr 2K if you were given the possibility to join NJE? It is very easy to say that you are willing to work for an established company. But aren´t they worth the chance? As far as I heard, they are staying in CISCO office in Lagoas Park (maybe around 2 k´s from NJE) but they are already building their own office building (something like that). This has to mean something, doesn´t it?

Apparently, they have the knowledge and the means ($) to atract people from NJE. Its like that in every business and there´s no denying it. And it will always be like that, in ALL businesses. You learn from the best and apparently they want not only to learn but to progress and grow. As far as personalities in their staff, honestly, I think that the people concerned will not make the same mistake again, in terms of personality. I might be wrong, but, oh well, you never know. :rolleyes:

In terms of clients, from their staff profiles they are people who know a lot of other people, who have connections at high places. That´s already a good start, don´t you think?

In terms of aircraft/RWY capabilities, I know an endless number of times that other companies flights have landed in places with even no fire-cat enough, or landing in LFMD in out of limits for revenue flight. Still, it all turns out to the hands of the crews and their ability. One thing is what you see on the charts, the other thing is what a pilot sees in front of him. Anyway, regulations allow for an aircraft to land GA even with passengers, if you own the aircraft (like a fraction of the plane). I believe that will sort out some issues. Others do that quite often.

As far as OPS is concerned, if JR really wants to do something professional, I don´t think it will be THAT difficult. It´s just a matter of will and investing on the right resources (both human and technical) which is something others lack... and a LOT. Specially the will...

Only time will tell what this new venture will bring. But I wish them luck in this business. After all, they will have people working there. Which is something others never thought about much. They tend to forget that people make a company and not the other way around.

Again, good luck to them and may we all win with competition! :)

Best regards to all and have safe flights!

PS - No, I don´t work for JR...

OSS

Who said they would be flying comercially?

What I heard was private, which opens a lot of possibilities, and risks, agreed.

ONESINGLESKY and pasqualito explain it nicely. Maybe I was being too..... subtle?

"Others"? Anyone we know? :O

flint,

not anyone that officially posts here anyway...

OSS,

good education, neutral comments, no wonder why you had waited to post.
Makes just me thinking , why on this thread ? If not close to JR ?

To speak about LFMD, IF any one had ever done it (out of limits landings / Take Off ie non documented), a little bird is telling me, that they should try to stop very soon, or the authorities will stop it for them. :suspect:

..why on this thread ? If not close to JR ?

Reading other posts made me want to write here. Believe me, I have nothing to do with JR but I know (a little bit) a couple of people who work there and I know pretty pretty well NJE and how they operate.

What I was briefly trying to say, is that we should not condemn a company from trying to achieve something. As far as I heard, they really have a lot of applicants (in excess of 3000 people applying to work there), and every company has to start somewhere. No company in the world exists out of the air, they always have to be based out of something (yeah, I know, I discovered the powder... :ugh: )

they should try to stop very soon, or the authorities will stop it for them

How many times did I think the same...

But, I am not going into more details with that. I wanna keep things simple and straight.:oh:


pascualito

What I heard was private, which opens a lot of possibilities, and risks, agreed

But if they only fly GA, then that will really open their possibilities a LOT... (not talking about the risks now)

I believe they can´t do that in selling hours of flight (25hrs cards). I think they can do that only if one of the passengers owns a share of the aircraft. If a customer buys a 25hrs card, I don´t think they can do that.

PS - By no means I am making publicity here. Rest assured of that. I gain nothing with that.

Was Banaman not frequenting these pages some time ago. Would be interesting to hear what he has to say about 'recent events' and Banananana Republics future.

There's no denying JB made a success of White Concierge. The investors have seen that, will have made due diligence enquiries and now know far more about him than you or I do. As they tell you at indoc these people don't get rich by being stupid.

Sorry for hijacking this intresting non-topic (excellent and cheap PR) and converting it into a CB / DM praisery or slamathon.
JB had success, right. Everybody has potential if he is supported and trained well and put into the right position. Dont get me too wrong here, but a well trained Janitor is an assett, the heart and soul of every company. Does that mean he will be a good teamleader or manager? Porbably not, but maybe Yes. Who knows.

DM and JB have been proven to be excellent managers in their specific and tailored postions and tasks. What a potential, but then NJE made a mistage (they still do) they promote people by senority and success in their present role, without checking their potential for the next carreer step. And here is what went wrong.

Whiteconsierge (from which I have no clue about its success, never heard of them before, but this is my ignorance and doesnt mean they are no-good. How many employees and budget per year? I have no idea!:() seems to be a good stage for a poser. Self-Presentation as part of the business. Well picked, stay there and be happy and drive bad-taste-coloured sportscars.
But dont reach too high, this has proven to be the wrong thing on one occasion and history might repeat itself.

End of-off-topic, sorry for the detour. :rolleyes:

Sorry DM has proven to be an excellent manager? Hmmmmmmm, there maybe some people who disagree with that comment.

DM and JB have been proven to be excellent managers in their specific and tailored postions and tasks.


Are we talking about the same people here?:O I said JB had made a success of White Concierge, I'd never agree he was a good manager.

Paddy Power now offering bets on whether JR will still be in business on 1st Jan 2010

Jet Republic Launch Betting (http://www.paddypower.com/bet?action=go_type&category=SPECIALS&disp_cat_id=&ev_class_id=45&ev_type_id=10436#link_1219305)

They've just luanched a new promotional video this morning. I think it's quite good.

YouTube - Bannana Republic Intro (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNknWT-agT0)


I might stick a tenner on with paddy power, you never know i might win a Lear 60XR!!!!

I've bet £20 each way.

I'm a genius :}

When a thread starts to drift like this it suggests that there's nothing much worth saying about the original topic. Maybe we can wait for the next thrilling development before posting again.

Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, i was enjoying myself there. Oh well back to the pay TV

. . . time for some more cheap pay-tv-substitution. :ok:

Cum-on, Duck let us kids play around a bit more. So little smilies to catch lately ;)

please Duck , keep it running, it wont hurt ;)

Whilst I believe the choice of aircraft for the philosophy is wrong, unless they employ midget cabin crew, they do have an interesting and dynamic management team. The customer services director Peter Schickling is top of his tree in the world and I know he wouldn't be there if it wasn't well supported and planned so should be a fascinating development.:ok:

No, I don't work for them and would not
:)

Still no idea about the salary package offered by Jet Republic ?

Just getting back on track here - if they are getting an EU-OPS certificate, albeit in free and easy Portugal (who's oversight seems to have anomalies compared with other EU states), surely flights should be undertaken under public transport rules? In the UK, any form of aircraft management for hire and reward is deemed to be 'public transport' whether block hours 'lease' or 'charter' or fractional when a third party company is running the aircraft for the owner for payment of one kind or another. If anyone recieves payment of any kind for running the aircraft - its public transport, isn't it?

If public transport, then I stand by the fact that you can't fly the aircraft privately when you choose to (unless empty/positioning) and therefore being the Lear 60, with the worse landing performance of almost any business jet, it won't be able to go anywhere unless it's a typical commercial hub airport.

Can someone explain how the JB flights can possibly be 'private' and therfore for example need minimum fire & rescue cover, no security screening for the passengers and leave the field performance down to the captain's discretion rather than what the ops manual dictates?

Saves one heck of a lot of hassle!

Avioactive.

Good questions indeed and the very questions that have been asked of a Lisbon based fractional operator known for operating their aircraft 'privately' despite multiple ownership and a commercial AOC. I have seen them arrive empty using the aircraft registration as their callsign then leave with passengers under their company callsign.

Funnily enough when such flights are questioned by crew the flights are transferred to someone more compliant and the first crew never asked to do them again.

If you wanted to extend this conversation you could ask about things like fire cover too but maybe you answered the question when you mentioned the country in which they operate.

Scratch Pad

NO NO NO NO NO NO and once again NO. You are way wide of the mark. When you hear them using the tail number CS-D?? it is GA operations. There is nothing preventing the company operating the aircraft under GA rules and this is usually done for operational reasons. Do you think the INAC would just turn a blind eye to GA operations? No they would not, if they where doing anything wrong they would be told not to do it anymore.

Switched to a "more compliant crew", absolute rubbish.

Fire cover requirements are CLEAR in the operations manual part A, and crews abide by them. If the crews are in any doubt it usually results in a call to the SOF and they WILL get the schedulers to change the plan if sufficient fire cover is not available.

Not rubbish. First hand information.

Remember the line sent out "Because those owning a share are 'owners' we can fly private rules"? I know three people who queried that and were retasked, the flight was completed by another crew in all cases.

I'll say it is, you'll say it isn't and the thread will spiral downward but I know what I've seen and what the boys in (Lisbon) Ops have told me. I have no intention of getting into an argument over something neither of us can prove here but I know to be true.

So are we operating in GA and out on a fraction call sign or GA with pax on board because "they are owners". Two posts two conflicting allegations.

Also you chose not to talk about the fire cat "issue" you raised. Lets hear all about it.

Be careful, i won't go round and round for long before i embarass you.

I've not used the term 'GA'. I didn't wite anything about GA with passengers.

To reiterate. Instructions were issued to crew to position as private flights. Crew refused, jobs given to someone else.

Fire Cat issue? Simple really, it was too low. Your Part A might be clear and I'm sure that you and all the other decent people follow it but that's not to say everyone else is the same. Please, don't shoot the messenger.

Can I ask a specific and possibly relevant question?

NJ operate to Galway but its too short for public transport jet operations isnt it?...

If NJ do this 'interpretation' of what is commercial and what is private to suit their daily needs does this mean JR will be allowed to as well....? as stated in the thread.

Galwayy pretty cut and dried (no pun intended) isnt it?

Our Euro-overlords seems to have decided that frac and management systems are not CAT at all. See the following document:

http://register.consilium.europa.eu/pdf/en/08/st05/st05334.en08.pdf

In particular, para 26, 29 (2nd part) and 30 on page 6.

Now ladies, calm down. My only contribution is that, as a potential customer of NJ, we were put off by their seeming 'bending' of the rules. At least that's how it appeared. Their willingness to operate into places like Galway, Waterford and other short strips that the competition wouldn't, rather put us off...

commercially into Galway is no problem for most of the small and midsize aircrafts!!
If it does not match the numbers we need, we do not go!
It is that easy.

Maybe now mr.g but in the old days.....;)

Yup, we just follow the rules. The numbers either work and we go and if they don't work we don't go. No pressure....not now anyway.

Flat Spin, your words are music to my ears as a potential owner, however operating to (for example) Galway is not a problem in terms of aircraft performance. A typical scenario would be that the performance charts for a departure from Galway to the chosen destination using the JAR ops performance data provided by our supplier would be consulted. If we cannot depart JAR ops we will not go to pick passengers up, and this does happen.

Then we would look at the conditions for arrival and should we not have the perormance to get in using JAR ops performance data, GA landing data would be used (less restrictive). The reason i have questioned Scratchpad is because he makes it seem like we always position GA and we don't, and that crews who refuse to position GA are changed, and they are not.

They are operating within the limits of the Aircraft Flight Manual which is perfectly safe. My question to Scratchpad of why the regulatory authority (INAC) have not put a stop to this if it is unsafe remains unanswered.

I've been with NJE 5 years and i can still count on one hand the number of positioning flights i have done GA, infact i think one of them was actually Galway!

With respect, it isn't bending the rules, it just means we are using the aircraft to the maximum of it's capabilities to provide a service to the owners.

The INAC question was once explained to me by a Portuguese NJE pilot as being one of 'over the knee'. Of course I have no idea what he meant ;) Nothing improper I'm sure.

As for 'going private' (as opposed to GA) yup, I was asked to do that. Refused point blank and someone else was called in. I can also recall there being questions over fire cover when operating into a small airfield in France, never did get a satisfactory answer either.

Sorry SB but it was an open secret for some time. Not saying things haven't changed but there's some merit in Scratch Pad's posts. If Flat Spin's comments are anything to go by this sort of thing was more widely known than we thought at the time and seems to have cost Netjets some sales. Hope they've learned by their mistakes.

I couldn't have said it better SB.

If the numbers don't work we don't go.
If we can land GA to get passengers out Commercially, we do it. No reason not do it, is there?

And yes mr. Flinstone, a loooong time ago it was different, but it really changed, believe me.

Anyway, good night everyone, time for my beautysleep.
N.:ok:

I have operated into Galway in a H800, fully complying with Jar-ops performance requirements, with pax on board.

I have a simple rule, if it is not Safe and Legal I don't do it. Reasonable, well that is a whole other subject!:)

This is my experience on the Lear60, those who knows me know the figures.

First year after delivering a lear 60 the aircraft is more time on the ground doing maintenance than flying, after first year they are good.
If you get a bad one (built on friday) get rid of it, will never fly good.
Lear 60 with one F/A is ok, we always have one on board.
Lear 60XR with one F/A is a pain, galley is designed by Homer Simpson.
Lear 60´s are like Ferraris: attractive, fast but maintenance is expensive.
The older the 60 is the better they are, the new ones....get away from them

They will never break-even with a 60.

Hello to everybody!
I start to get pissed off about airline, so I was getting interested in JR, no idea how it works in GA, but all my friends in NJE are very happy. As far as I know, NJE is still blocked, so why don`t try at JR..
BUT: who knows something about JR? Operational base? Off days? Vac? Salary?:confused:

I don't think Jet Republic will even start for another year or so - right? Maybe they start to hire next year. They still need their first aircraft delivered. Does anyone have better information on start up date?

VistaJet may be hiring in the new year - I would also check them out (there is another thread on VistaJet here as well).

The 'man' in question couldnt deliver hours for the largest broker in the UK, so how he has managed to start this (I reserve judgement on funding) I have no idea.

Its like all these 'great idea' people, they lack the ability to put an adequate infrastructure down. Its style over substance yet again.

Stay well away.

DM disappeared from the website. :confused:

The rest to follow soon I guess including the entire thing . . . :hmm:

...and i bet the Director of Engineering is busy with all those 110 jets out on the ramp...

Dear All,

There is plenty here about the flight perfomance of the aircraft but not so much about the maintenance of the beast...

JB claims that maintenance will be covered by ASF's across Europe. Good luck with that JB! Few of these facilities are geared up for the 60 and even fewer are geared up for AOG support.

This may explain why he needs such a large number of units.. From 100 aircraft, they may keep about 40 operational at any one time (providing that they don't leave them out in the rain - LJ's don't like getting wet you know.

Then we would look at the conditions for arrival and should we not have the perormance to get in using JAR ops performance data, GA landing data would be used (less restrictive).


Hey smeagels boyfriend,

Well if this isn't bending the rules, I don't know what is! ;) It was exactly this sort of 'flexibility' of rule interpretation that put us off NJ.

Flat