A380 Incident

[wizard1]

Comments anyone?

[White Knight]

Haven't got faintest idea what you're talking about:ugh::ugh:

[ddd]

Emirates Airline's first A380 has been grounded just weeks after it was first launched, Arabian Business can reveal.

Scheduled engineering on the airline’s only operating A380 is taking longer than expected and has forced the airline to replace Friday’s scheduled flight of the super jumbo with a Boeing 777, the airline said on Thursday.

“The A380 was scheduled for a flight tomorrow. However, in place of the A380, we will be operating our Boeing 777-300ER to New York JFK, which also offers private suites in First Class and lie-flat seats in Business Class,” an Emirates spokesperson told Arabian Business.


“Our teams are working hard to minimise any inconvenience caused to our passengers. Our A380 will be deployed on commercial service again as soon as possible.”

The news is a further blow to the Dubai-based airline, which is by far the A380’s largest customer with 58 aircraft on order. Last week the airline announced delivery of its second A380 was delayed by several weeks.

Emirates received its first A380 on July 28, following a two-year delay from plane manufacturer Airbus.

[a345xxx]

So whats the real story?:)

[Jet II]

I dont think EK or Airbus want that to get out ;)

[powerstall]

Couldn't find anything new.....

[wizard1]

Will be intersting to see how long they bury this one for. Wont be me that spills the beans - seriously career limiting move.

[miss petal]

Heard this at least 3 days ago, the whole set crew were deadhead back to Dubai from JFK.

[Jetjock330]

We still have no idea what you guys are on about?

[Wiley]

What a shower!


(If rumours are to be believed, that comment will be seen to be quite clever in time.)

[TwinJock]

Incident? Nope, electrical problems!

Sounds like a burned electrical bus bar!

Tried to reserve a seat on the A380 to JFK for next week - just B777's on the route! A380 ferried back to France for repairs.

If you try and run only one of a type on a route this is bound to happen!!

[Flygulfair]

What a great start to emirates A380's :}

[Sleeping Freight Dog]

So was it that the water heater for the showers burned out an electrical
board??? Must be something serious if they are sending it back to the
manufacturer for repairs.

[a345xxx]

All the way back to Toulose for repairs!!! A little overkill?:)

[Jet II]

Not if you'd seen the damage..

[GlueBall]

. . . Keep us all in a state of suspense. :{

[halas]

It's been removed from flightwatch.

halas

[ddd]

Imagine paying a lot of bucks for a 1st class ticket on the A380, looking forward to your 1st shower on a plane..... and you have to fly in a B777 !!!??
:{

[sbh684b]

I wonder then who's A380 is it then painted in Emirates colours sitting in the EK hangers now in Dubai. Doesn't seem like it left for France yet. People check your facts!!!!!

[5star]

sb........

OK the location (DA is in DXB) was not correct, but everything else seems to match with what I hear....
Scairbus is too embarrassed to report about the incident I think (you wonder how well they tested the showers) and also EK keeps low profile....
Hmmm... will there be an ASR?

[woodja51]

Of course only rumours but an engineer told me that as earlier posts indicate that there was some sort of overload on the electrical circuits - maybe due to to the shower system but unsure of that. Apparently the loads on the generation system are really high ( durrrr) and that may be what caused the problem.

All I know is that my wife who went over to the 380 as crew in June has yet to fly the aircraft - and from the likely delay ( I heard a month down time to sort out) she might not fly it for some time!!!..

The funny thing is that there are heaps of these things floating around singapore at the moment and we - the largest customer cant get another one to replace it!!

Also - does any one notice the irony of the 'good water - bad water' that is going on at the moment.

All this talk to save fuel by carrying less potable ( read 'bad' water) so that another jet in the fleet can carry more 'good' shower water - which seems to be the culprit behind the fault??

Bit like good weight (duty free ) versus bad weight ( such as life jackets) that carriers are moving off their jets to save gas...

FYI. Woodj

[inducedrag]

I have heard some kind of fire in avionics compartment

[Mullah Kintyre]

Being on a day off, I hurried into the Office this morning along with the usual squadron of First Officer 5IC Senior Deputy Assistant Chief Manager's Attache's Secretary pilots, First Officer instructors and First Officer Inserters of Amendments as well as various other sundry FO boot-lickers, brown-nosers, arse-kissers and pursuers of grandeur, in the hopes, as is the fashion, of furthering my own position by performing such mundane tasks as may disdainfully be handed my way. Whilst re-loading a photocopier, I overheard a comment from a knowledgeable source who claims the current crisis with the leaking A380 Arse-Washing cubicles has been traced back to the same contractor (awarded through "Procurements" at the lowest possible price) who, armed with a tube of Silastic, was responsible for such acts and mis-deeds as:

The plastering at "Envy" villas in Garhoud,
The filtration of the Silicon Oasis swimming pool,
The sound-proofing at "DK" villas, also in Garhoud,
Road water-drainage city-wide,
The rain-proofing of the Mall of the Emirates,
The tech-training of the Oasis Shopping Centre welding team,
The foundations of the Palm Island, and
The lean in the Burj Dubai.
Off to see if anyone up the top needs a brew.

[5star]

Mullah,

you made my day!!!!!!!!!!!!!
tx

[Wiley]

More please, Mullah. Have you ever considered doing an update to the Caravan scroll (and of course, sharing it with us here)? The sheik's current cameleer boss would probably an Expurt Expat ex-donkey driver by the name of Teak Ass. (Think about it.) Along with many others, I await your additions/modifications to the now outdated original.

[Yossarian]

Way to go Mullah!! :ok:

Best post I have read here in months!

[Wiley]

(Crying tears of laughter as I type), see post # 27.

[5star]

Mullah for president.
Still radio silence from EK. What a contrast with the mega P.R. show just a couple of weeks ago...

[puff m'call]

The problem is quite serious for what I hear, word on the street has it that it landed off a training flight when the two engines with trust rev would not cancel so the shut them down, started the APU on taxi in then at the gate shut the other two engine down, instead of the APU picking up the elect load it all went rather dark and quiet.

Engineers then found one of the boxes in the E&E bay happily burning away.

Unable to fly it stays here for repair.

Great start for the ugly bus: :E

[wizard1]

Thats about the size of it. Has Swissair written all over it. Some serious answers needed here. No ecam warnings in the cockpit at all. Apparantly the malfunction took them out along the way.

[White Knight]

It'll be operating JFK this coming friday according to 7 Days article today....

[ONEIN60]

On the portal as well. Doing JFK on Friday so can't be so bad. Amazing how rumours can get out of hand!

[fractional]

Having just one acft of the type and size is a big risk on its own: Being it EK, is even bigger news because of the publicity given to the different events and to the acft herself.
New aircraft go unserviceable more often than not. It happened with all the types I dealt with. Even moving them from one area to another on our own Globe sometimes causes a lot of problems caused mainly by weather factors.
It's really a massive airplane with loads to prove. Time will tell. They love it in the air and that's where they make money.

[pool]

... thinking that I was left to believe, that with all longhaul aircraft the deeper meaning was to move them from one aera to another on our own globe (reminds me of our own Indian High School) ...
... but with the A380 we all learn new things, like that weather might cause a lot of problems ...
... or that they make money with it in the air. Wasn't that what it was designed for? ...

Hallowed are the A380s, to enlighten us about aviation!

[MrMachfivepointfive]

puff is right. Problem is that the fried box is the only one of its kind on the planet (with MSN13 still being kitted out). Delay is caused by the manufacturer having to build a replacement from scratch.

[5star]

wizard, :suspect:
i heard the same about the scairbus...

It seems that we (and mainly Scairbus) were VERY VERY lucky last week that things did not get out of control completely!!! Most of us have the Swiss MD11 still in fresh memory.....

Several engineers confirm the whale is a nightmare with all the open maintenance issues but the damage they discovered in the E&E compartment was beyond belief...

[MrMachfivepointfive]

Had nothing to do with the showers. Some FOD left behind while fitting out the bird in Hamburg caused a short. Sorted, fixed, replaced. EDA is flying again.

[greenhopper]

word from engineer backs up electrical problem caused by FOD,(according to airbus)!! Displays went blank and RAT deployed,

[sandman1]

just received the weekly email conc. operational issues, NOTHING mentioned about the 380 - interesting information policy.

[5star]

They gotta be joking at TLS. Apparently they have already changed ALL 6 generators in the last month or so. Rubbish quality....
Imagine this happened at 30W.

I'm sure eventually AB will get their act together but if I'm not mistaken this thing had its first flight in april 2005.... Plenty of time to get things sorted out I would say...

I'm sure T.C. talked the purchase price of the whales further down this week....Good for the bonus next year.

[White Knight]

Well SIA's 2 380's seem to be running just fine!! And I'm sure that the JAA/FAA certification will cover even things like the gennies 5*.

All a lot of b0llocks being spouted on this thread:hmm:

[Wiley]

word from engineer backs up electrical problem caused by FODQuite correct. FOD* as in Flooding from Outflow from Da Shower.

I too was a little bemused that this week's crew "update" made no mention at all of the Whale, be it its progress or otherwise. Am I letting my imagination run away with me when I consider what might have eventuated had the Whale had a fire in its E&E compartment with no ECAM warning (as this one did), but at F350 and two hours away from the nearest airfield, and with 500 pax on board?

When I say "might have eventuated", I'm thinking Big Picture, along the lines of "to the economy of the south of France if not France itself, along with the other Airbus partner countries." On a smaller(?) scale, Swissair 111 comes immediately to mind.

Perhaps I've just answered my own question as to why we've been told nothing.

[5star]

White knight,

On your next walkaround talk to some engineers and you'll get a better picture. What some are writing in this forum is not BS.
Funny how there is still no comms from EK...

[icarus sun]

This is part of Airbus foreward thinking,use water from shower for fire fighting in E&E bay. No need for eicam message as will be inop.:ok:

[GAGing in Bahrain]

Now that's forward thinking! :D Them engineers at AB sure are a crafty lot. Boeing could learn quite a bit from them!:ugh:

[pool]

No, Airbus can learn a lot from those crafty Boeing engineers- eg Let's save fuel by not allowing the engines to power up on short final, or lets hasten pax disembarkment by burning down the aircraft at the gate.

Well, this quote reminds me of Habsheim and the hangar in CDG ....

But on another note this is a SR111 flashback. They had similar toothing problems with the IFEN electrics, but ... just played them down and displayed a very similar lack of information. We all know the result. It is not only AB. The reverting from cables and hydraulic lines to all electrics is visible on the 787 as well. I personally prefer severed cables, leaking hydraulic lines to short circuiting electrical equippment, but the trend is set and we have to live with it.
The really dangerous situation today is the constant cover-up of these problems, the same as the head in the sand defensive attitude of freaks of these new aircraft.

Tell it like it is, then they will be forced to improve!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I may quote Obama: You can put lipstick on a pig, it will still be a pig. :E

[Jet II]

The really dangerous situation today is the constant cover-up of these problems, the same as the head in the sand defensive attitude of freaks of these new aircraft.


Agreed - this secrecy could kill somebody some day

[icarus sun]

I am so sorry to AB. It seems that Boeing invented the system,B747-200/400 both lost electrical power due moisture in E&E bay.:} On a more serious note the E&E bays should be watertight and fireproof,or have fire detection/warning/fighting system. After all they can make subs waterproof, with some exceptions.:ok:

[616200]

This morning was parked at F16(I think)ready to operate EK 201 :)

[Roster Change]

Yup, flew over Mirdiff this morning on it's way to JFK. Low and very quiet.

[White Knight]

5* - um yes.. I have actually spoken with the grease monkeys:ugh:

WTF have the generators got to do with the problem EDA had? Well, you did bring that up! Ergo - load of b0llocks 'cos this thread ain't about the 5 gennies is it?

[glad rag]

We are talking about section 13 here right?

what was the MSN No, 11?

[5star]

white knight,

1. Read the complete thread mate.

2. As far as I remember there is still freedom of speech on this platform. Sure EK and guys like yourself would like to see it differently...

3. Great to read your opinion on engineers.

whatever.

[White Knight]

5* - I've read the entire thread MATE, I'm all for free speech - but you are somewhat off topic MATE, and I like the 'grease monkeys'... Sad that you have such politically correct delusions as not wanting us to call them by what they've been known as for years.

You are the weakest link.....:{ Goodbye..... MATE

[outhouse]

Hi, so sorry to appear controversial, but could someone actually describe the original problem as indicated to the crew the cause and implications in one knowledgeable post please. I feel this would then allow a positive move forward re the discussion of the event if that’s what we would all like.
outhouse
:ok:

[White Knight]

Do you watch 'Yes Minister' Outhouse? You know- Sir Humphrey of the long and convoluted sentence?:}

[outhouse]

OK WK, point taken.
:ok:

[gulf_slf]

Talks continue over delayed second Emirates A380 - Transportation - ArabianBusiness.com (http://www.arabianbusiness.com/531020-talks-continue-over-delayed-second-a380)

Is this related to the issues that the first AB 380 is experiencing ?

Not good for the route expansion .... if the public in general could read some of the comments above expecially the references to SR 111, they may not be so keen to fly the whale.......

[White Knight]

If the public even know what the reference to SR111 is.... Most don't know the wings from the wheels:hmm:

[outhouse]

Not wishing to sound like Sir Humphrey! The Fat SOB is back in action so what really happened???
:\

[TwinJock]

I will supply some of the rumors - feel free to add some FACTS!!

The fat one landed after training flight, could not stow reversers on no 2 and no 3 engine, shut down 2 engines to taxi, RAT deployed after power failure, a very frizzled crimping tool found in E+E bay that caused some serious damage.

Hope AB will improve their quality assurance with the coming deliveries.

Not the type of thing that you want to happen when Keflavik is the ONLY alternate and a few hours away!:ooh::ooh::ooh:

Let rip!!!!

[outhouse]

Dear me, looks like the acceptance team needs to add loose article and lost tool checks to the list of things to do, after enjoying hospitality by AB. Things seem not to change with advancing years.
Thanks for the info TW, will look out for any facts added.

Outhouse.

[MrMachfivepointfive]

All in all 15 pieces of FOD left behind by Airbus construction staff were found in the lower e-bay. Major embarrassment.
Anybody have any news about SQ A380 taxying in at SYD advising tower unable to shut down one engine and unable to connect APU to bus?

[icarus sun]

If this is the true story tools and not water<which made a better story> in E&E bay, Does not say much for Airbus test flight crew and engineers or Emirates crew either.:suspect:

[tbaylx]

It's not an uncommon occurence to find tools left behind from manufacturing, though they don't cause as spectacular failures as this all the time. Once found a rivet bucking bar in a fuel tank inspection on a 1900.
It's certainly no reflection on any EK staff...they can't be expected to inspect the entire aircraft for tools, that is Airbus's quality control responsibility.

[outhouse]

Sorry to disagree,
As a person that did have a responsibility to a very major operating company that was purchasing a severe number of new aircraft the acceptance of the aircraft from the manufacture was dependent on our detailed inspection and monitoring of the aircraft during manufacturing and acceptance by us, this included the performance flight testing. The aircraft was not accepted until all the boxes had a tick. Slack acceptance protocol will result in embarrassing events later.

[typhoonpilot]

Disagree to the disagree. I'm not sure how Airbus does it , but I do know how McDonell Douglas did it. The "pilot aid" was the person responsbile for checking for any bits and pieces being left behind in the manufacturing process. At McDonnell Douglas the pilot aid was a very experienced A&P with over 30 years of seniority and a long time in the position. The pilot aid released the aircraft to the Production Test Pilots who did the initial ground runs and flight checks. At no time were the Production Test Pilots required to inspect the avionics bay/E&E compartment. When the Production testing was completed the aircraft would go for an acceptance flight by the receiving airline. All receiving airlines follow their own procedures for that and essentially it is a shortened version of the production test flight.

So I would place the blame on the Airbus team for their oversight, not any EK people.



Typhoonpilot

[tbaylx]

Sorry to disagree,
As a person that did have a responsibility to a very major operating company that was purchasing a severe number of new aircraft the acceptance of the aircraft from the manufacture was dependent on our detailed inspection and monitoring of the aircraft during manufacturing and acceptance by us, this included the performance flight testing. The aircraft was not accepted until all the boxes had a tick. Slack acceptance protocol will result in embarrassing events later.

I would be very suprised if anywhere on EK's acceptance checklist there was a box that they had to check stating, entire aircraft inspected for FOD in all compartements, fuel tanks, and inspection panels. That is a Airbus manufacturing QC job, nothing to do with EK. It would take the team weeks to inspect an aircraft the size of a 380.

[icarus sun]

As someone who has accepted aircraft,our engineers always checked aircraft after delivery. This is before the company test flight. They often found problems which were discussed/fixed.Often found tools, rivets ,spares, etc left behind.:ok:

[midseal]

Regarding this tools found in discreet places on a/c, Perhaps the engineers should have some protocal after working on aircrafts. Something similar to what surgeons do just before they close up a patient after surgery. Started with 16 instruments, count 16 instruments after the op. If all engineers did that, they won't have this left/missing tools scenario. Its not one life in question, its a several hundred. Now, don't take credit for that idea, its patented!!! nah,,,kidding!!:ok:

[trimotor]

Too late mid-seal -it's been in use by air forces for years...and probably many airlines..

[Fubaar]

Not really pertinent to the thread topic, but I thought it worth sharing with EK readers what the Qantas crews are calling the 380.

Apart from the predictable 'Whale', 'Dugong', 'Superjumbo' etc, the really clever one (and my favourite) is 'The A3-latey'.

Very droll.

[outhouse]

Not wishing to bang on about the subject of acceptance criteria but we had two parts. The engineering part, one or two engineers on site during the post build inspections. Critical compartments (electrical distribution being one) had a duplicate inspection performed before final closure by the company engineer and a seal was affixed to the compartment access. Thus minimizing the FOD risk.
During acceptance flight testing the resident engineer worked with the manufacture, if maintenance action was required and if areas opened he again performed the duplicate inspection. After acceptance the normal company procedures applied. The British CAA had there own engineering acceptance inspection procedures at that time and these included random visual inspection of vital areas as well as detailed checking of all required paperwork.
I don’t want to sound like Sir H but just to clarify what we felt was an important part of the job and considering the large investment involved even then, worth the additional cost having an engineering presence.
Thanks all for your indulgence
outhouse
:ok:

[ironbutt57]

Regardless, instead of perpetuating a "blamefest", lets hope all parties concerned take action to prevent future occurrences..good thing it happened when and where it did:eek:

[outhouse]

Absolutly, I am sure that you are correct.