FAA ATP - post your questions here.

[triple777]

Hello,

I am a furloughed american ( not the airline ) pilot from a US major currently flying the 777 as an fo in the middle east. I have type ratings on my faa certificate on the 737/757/767. Can anyone tell me how i can add the 777 second in command type rating on my US certificate? I understand that the FAA has now required second in command ratings to be issued on licences to meet ICAO standards when flying internationally. Of course, since 9/11 i can't just go pay for a checkride :ugh:

Thanks

Triple777

[poguemahone]

I just did this last week

You need a copy of your training records showing that you had a PC Check on the aircraft involved within the last 12 months. Signed or stamped by someone in the training dept.
Fill out a 8710 form and where you would normaly tick the box to add an additional rating tick the "other" box and write in SIC Type. Then submit them to a FSDO. They then issue you a temporary certificate with the SIC Type while you wait.

[triple777]

Thanks alot for the reply! I will get the necessary paperwork and when i go Stateside will submit it.

[triple777]

I called the FLL FSDO and spoke to an inspector on the phone before u replied with your email, he said that i would have to do a checkride to get it on my license, don't know if he really knew what he was talking about...which FSDO did u go to? please send me a PM or email.. I go back to MIA next 2 weeks so i want to get the necessary paperwork that i may need before then... thanks again :ok:

Triple777

[Phil Squares]

The FSDO is correct, in fact, they may even demand you take an approved ground school. But, there is no way to add the type rating without taking a check with the FAA.

[Panama Jack]

poguemahone's response is encouraging and hope to hear more.

The fact of the matter is that most countries allow for the adding of a type rating earned on a licence of another ICAO state. The US FAA has always had a dim view on this . . . wonder why.

Up until recently, it was the only state that didn't type rate FO's.

Lets face it, the Type Rating, even if added via Form 8710 is harmless . . . since it will be useless without a PPC ride from the FAA. So I don't understand why the FAA takes this overly conservative stance since it does nothing to enhance safety.

[westhawk]

Triple 777:

Please refer to FAR 61.55 (http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=e6ec6d0b8d7795954fff06ba93530fa2&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.1.2.1.1.33&idno=14)(d) for the regulatory requirements for issuance of an "SIC type rating". Bottom line: If you have completed the required training, It's just a paperwork exersise. As stated previously, there is no practical exam for the SIC type. Your training records and a signed 8710 may be presented to a FSDO inspector. He should be able to issue a new temporary on the spot. This is the quickest and easiest way to go. FSDOs in the boonies may be less familiar with this procedure than those located in a major city. Here (http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/examiners_inspectors/8000/media/N8000-314.doc) is a document published by the FAA which provides guidance to inspectors and examiners on the procedure for issuance of the SIC type rating.

This should be a simple exersise. Good luck.

Best regards,

Westhawk

[Panama Jack]

Great stuff-- thanks westhawk!

[triple777]

Thanks Phil, Westhawk and Panama! I will keep u all posted when i go home in a week and tell you what they say. I am sure however that when i upgrade and get the PIC type i will have to do a ride, but I will ask them in person about this one... thanks for taking the time ! :rolleyes:

[poguemahone]

I may have misread your question.

I did my PC check here in the USA with a US Airline therefore there was only paperwork to fill out in order to get the SIC on my license.
While I was at the FSDO though I did ask about type ratings on a foreign license and if they can be transfered to a FAA License and I was told it could be done. The inspector said she would have to get out the book and look it up though to get the official answer

[rick1128]

I may have misread your question.
I did my PC check here in the USA with a US Airline therefore there was only paperwork to fill out in order to get the SIC on my license.
While I was at the FSDO though I did ask about type ratings on a foreign license and if they can be transfered to a FAA License and I was told it could be done. The inspector said she would have to get out the book and look it up though to get the official answer

I have been there in the past and was basiccally SOL. The SIC type is a paperwork issue and current training records (in english) should be all that is required.

[triple777]

All done ! Went to the FLL FSDO office today and got the 777 SIC put on my certificate... took my training records endorsed and the 8710 form signed by the head of training and voila ! Thanks for the input gentlemen, it helped me get prepared and bring the proper paperwork :ok:

[Phil Squares]

Just to clarify....that's for a SIC endorsment only?

[triple777]

Went to the FLL FSDO office today and got the 777 SIC put on my certificate, period

[ernestkgann]

B777 I'm in Dubai as well and had asked a FSDO in San Fran about transferring my endorsement for command (B777) but after lots of e mails he told me that it could only be done after a check ride. Do you have the details ( email) of the guys you dealt with and where were they?
When you say trg records are you talking your last PPC?
Thanks

[Panama Jack]

Well, just tried getting an SIC type rating added at the Boston FSDO, unfortunately, unsuccessfully.

It seems that it is possible, but my application was shot down on several points-- no signature on the back of Form 8710 in the part of instructor recommendation (I guess I misread the guidance form). Also the inspector had issues with the authenticity of the signature (no title given as to who signed the endorsement), and whether the rubber stamp was added with the signature or whether it was always there on all records. Furthermore, I had handwritten the preamble endorsement in blue ink, and our chief training captain had signed it in black ink-- the inspector claimed I could have possibly added the endorsement after the signature (from whoever it was from) was already on the paper. :ugh:

Oh well, I guess I´ll have to try again on the next trip to the US.

P.S. Yes Ernest, we are only talking about SIC Type Ratings-- for command ones you have to jump through the US checkride hoops.

[che ci dò che ci dò!]

Hi everybody,
I'm an Italian citizen presently working in the Middle East on the A330 and I don't have a FAA license. I was told that to convert my ATPL into an FAA one I have first of all to submit the application to get the security clearence and next I would have to undergo a computerized exam and a Ckride. I know that the computerized test can also be done in London or Frankfurt. I was wandering if it is possible to undergo a single simu ckride on the A330 in the USA in order to cover the assessment requirements for the issue of both an FAA ATPL and a SIC A330 rating.
Anybody can tell me where I can get the relevant infos?
Thanks guys!

[triple777]

Sorry I have taken so long to reply, I am still on vacation and have not checked the forum for about a week. Sorry Panama, I just got your pm.

Essentially i took a copy of my initial training records, ppcs ( including most recent ), filled out the 8710 which the Chief Flight Instructor Boeing signed, stamped. Then he had his secretary type up the endorsement statement on Company letterhead which he also stamped and signed. He also stamped and signed my training records. The FAA in Ft Lauderdale looked at everything ( i was inthe waiting room outside the offices) and gave me back the training records and typed up the temp certificate with the "B777 Sic Priveleges Only" endorsement on it and the B777 type on the top line. For the Sic to be removed at a later date when i upgrade i will have to take a checkride with the FAA or designated examiner. It was a pretty painless excercise but attention to detail and reading the form was important. In a previous post above someone had a link to the form and it had Q&A on it...one Q pertained to airline type endorsments, that was really helpful. If u have an questions let me know, will try to get back in a timely matter :) Richard Engler at the FLL FSDO did my paperwork and you can Google to get the number of the office...:ok:

[triple777]

Ft. Lauderdale Flight Standards District Office (FSDO)

1050 Lee Wagener Blvd.
Suite 201
Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33315

Phone: (954) 635-1300 Fax: (954) 635-1260

Office Hours: 7:30 a.m. to 4:00 p.m., Pacific Time, Monday - Friday
Office Visits by appointment only

[triple777]

that should be East Coast time :ugh:

[raysalmon]

Hi everybody,
I'm an Italian citizen presently working in the Middle East on the A330 and I don't have a FAA license. I was told that to convert my ATPL into an FAA one I have first of all to submit the application to get the security clearence and next I would have to undergo a computerized exam and a Ckride. I know that the computerized test can also be done in London or Frankfurt. I was wandering if it is possible to undergo a single simu ckride on the A330 in the USA in order to cover the assessment requirements for the issue of both an FAA ATPL and a SIC A330 rating.
Anybody can tell me where I can get the relevant infos?
Thanks guys!

The short answer is yes, an ATP and type rating can be issued as a result of one checkride.

[Panama Jack]

Anybody do this lately?

[rick1128]

Well, just tried getting an SIC type rating added at the Boston FSDO, unfortunately, unsuccessfully.
It seems that it is possible, but my application was shot down on several points-- no signature on the back of Form 8710 in the part of instructor recommendation (I guess I misread the guidance form). Also the inspector had issues with the authenticity of the signature (no title given as to who signed the endorsement), and whether the rubber stamp was added with the signature or whether it was always there on all records. Furthermore, I had handwritten the preamble endorsement in blue ink, and our chief training captain had signed it in black ink-- the inspector claimed I could have possibly added the endorsement after the signature (from whoever it was from) was already on the paper. :ugh:
Oh well, I guess I´ll have to try again on the next trip to the US.
P.S. Yes Ernest, we are only talking about SIC Type Ratings-- for command ones you have to jump through the US checkride hoops.

I believe that the inspector was in error on the requirement for the 8710 to have an instructor's signature on it. In the past two months, I have sent three pilots over to our FSDO with a 8710 and a copy of their 8410's and I did not sign the 8710's. They were accepted. However the logbook needs to be signed with the PIC's certificate number. Our FSDO is accepting 8410's in lieu of the logbook signoff.

[Panama Jack]

I figured something like this has to work out it's kinks.

When I left the office I was under the impression that the requirements to satisfy were nebulous, that I better go loaded for bear next time and bring a rabbits foot and a Las Vegas attitude on getting the rating added.

Unfortunately, the guidance material published by the FAA seems to neglect giving example of a type-rating based on foreign type or training. Nothing new-- the FAR's have always seemed to be based on that anything outside of the USA is a big vacuum.

If anybody has had specific experience with the Miami or Scottsdale FSDO's I would love to hear from you.

[varigflier]

Does anybody know how to fill out the 8710? I am talking about Part I Application Information and Part II, Certificate or Rating Applied for on basis of.
I am about to go to the States to get my SIC on the FAA license and would like to get the paperwork right.
Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[Panama Jack]

varigflyer, fortunately, if you fill it out wrong there is a good chance the FAA Inspector will give you a new form with directions.

It is pretty self explanatory-- there are detailed instructions on the form itself that should be read carefully, however, here is a quick briefing:

For Certificate/ Rating applied for "X" "Other" and write in SIC Type Rating.
The other things are as per the instructions on the form in Section 1. If you have a PO Box, they will want a physical explanation of where you live. Height and Weight in Inches and pounds. Your Citizenship is the country where you live, ie. "Brazil", NOT "Brazilian."

For Part II, I "X" box "E", put the name of the Air Carrier (I assume in your case it is "Varig" and the last date of your recurrent. For the Curriculum, leave it blank if it was a Recurrent, or check it if it was an Initial or Transition.

I had success the second time around, just make sure you have one of your Company signing authorities sign the Instructor's recommendation on the back of Form 8710!

[varigflier]

Thanks Panama Jack. Your post answered my questions. It is all filled out and signed. I'll let you know if they accept it.

[PositiveRate876]

Thanks for all that info Triple!
I'll go to the FLL FSDO when I go home in September and get
mine done.

[natterjack747]

Hi all,

I need to convert my JAA CPL/IR into an FAA ATP in order to fly a N reg jet.

Currently I have 2400hrs, 400 multi turbine, 90 hours night, 370IFR hours and around 1800 P1 time.

I realise that I need to make the night hours upto 100hrs. Can anyone tell me how the FAA define cross country time for purpose of ATP issue? I cant really find it anywhere on the net and I dont want to fall fowl of this.

Also I am banking on getting my FAA medical and sitting the ATP exam over here in the UK before doing my type rating in the US.

I am thinking that once I sit the exam and medical I can combine my type rating with the ATP checkride. Is this realistic?

Also which books would you recommend studying for the ATP exam?

Thanks!

[tgflyer]

Hi Natterjack, The FAA defines a cross country anytime that the distance from the departure airport and destination airport is 50 NM or more. You can combine the ATP checkride with a type rating checkride. The only book needed for the ATP written is a Question bank book, like the one Gleim publishes.

How do you plan on doing the conversion?? The regs would only allow you to get the a FAA CPL IR, since those are your JAA qualifications.
Be aware that the FAA may require you to do the FAA written test for your instrument rating. To be able to get a standalone FAA ATP you need to have had a previous standalone FAA certificate. Anything that says "based on a foreign certificate" is tied to the expiration date of your JAA license.

As you can see, it is quite a tricky situation. The information above is just a rough summary. For further details pm me.

Happy landings, TG

[weasil]

Hi Natterjack, The FAA defines a cross country anytime that the distance from the departure airport and destination airport is 50 NM or more.
This is only true for meeting the aeronautical experience requirements for the issuance of a private or commercial pilot certificate or instrument rating airplane.
For the issuance of an FAA ATP certificate cross country flying is defined as landing at an airport other than the one which you departed.
There are many threads on this topic in the archives here, have you tried doing a search?


Here's the basic eligibility regs for taking an FAA ATP checkride.

To be eligible for an airline transport pilot certificate, a person must:

(a) Be at least 23 years of age;

(b) Be able to read, speak, write, and understand the English language. If the applicant is unable to meet one of these requirements due to medical reasons, then the Administrator may place such operating limitations on that applicant's pilot certificate as are necessary for the safe operation of the aircraft;

(c) Be of good moral character;

(d) Meet at least one of the following requirements:

(1) Hold at least a commercial pilot certificate and an instrument rating;

(2) Meet the military experience requirements under §61.73 of this part to qualify for a commercial pilot certificate, and an instrument rating if the person is a rated military pilot or former rated military pilot of an Armed Force of the United States; or

(3) Hold either a foreign airline transport pilot or foreign commercial pilot license and an instrument rating, without limitations, issued by a contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation.

(e) Meet the aeronautical experience requirements of this subpart that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought before applying for the practical test;

(f) Pass a knowledge test on the aeronautical knowledge areas of §61.155(c) of this part that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought;

(g) Pass the practical test on the areas of operation listed in §61.157(e) of this part that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought; and

(h) Comply with the sections of this part that apply to the aircraft category and class rating sought.

[weasil]

§ 61.77 Special purpose pilot authorization: Operation of U.S.-registered civil aircraft leased by a person who is not a U.S. citizen.
top
(a) General. The holder of a foreign pilot license issued by a contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation who meets the requirements of this section may be issued a special purpose pilot authorization by the Administrator for the purpose of performing pilot duties—

(1) On a civil aircraft of U.S. registry that is leased to a person who is not a citizen of the United States, and

(2) For carrying persons or property for compensation or hire on that aircraft.

(b) Eligibility. To be eligible for the issuance or renewal of a special purpose pilot authorization, an applicant must present the following to an FAA Flight Standards District Office:

(1) A current foreign pilot license that has been issued by the aeronautical authority of a contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation from which the person holds citizenship or resident status and that contains the appropriate aircraft category, class, instrument rating, and type rating, if appropriate, for the aircraft to be flown;

(2) A current certification by the lessee of the aircraft—

(i) Stating that the applicant is employed by the lessee;

(ii) Specifying the aircraft type on which the applicant will perform pilot duties; and

(iii) Stating that the applicant has received ground and flight instruction that qualifies the applicant to perform the duties to be assigned on the aircraft.

(3) Documentation showing when the applicant will reach the age of 60 years (an official copy of the applicant's birth certificate or other official documentation);

(4) Documentation that the applicant meets the medical standards for the issuance of the foreign pilot license from the aeronautical authority of the contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation where the applicant holds citizenship or resident status;

(5) Documentation that the applicant meets the recent flight experience requirements of this part (a logbook or flight record); and

(6) A statement that the applicant does not already hold a special purpose pilot authorization; however, if the applicant already holds a special purpose pilot authorization, then that special purpose pilot authorization must be surrendered to either the FAA Flight Standards District Office that issued it, or the FAA Flight Standards District Office processing the application for the authorization, prior to being issued another special purpose pilot authorization.

(c) Privileges. A person issued a special purpose pilot authorization under this section—

(1) May exercise the privileges prescribed on the special purpose pilot authorization; and

(2) Must comply with the limitations specified in this section and any additional limitations specified on the special purpose pilot authorization.

(d) General limitations. A special purpose pilot authorization is valid only—

(1) For flights between foreign countries or for flights in foreign air commerce within the time period allotted on the authorization;

(2) If the foreign pilot license required by paragraph (b)(1) of this section, the medical documentation required by paragraph (b)(4) of this section, and the special purpose pilot authorization issued under this section are in the holder's physical possession or immediately accessible in the aircraft;

(3) While the holder is employed by the person to whom the aircraft described in the certification required by paragraph (b)(2) of this section is leased;

(4) While the holder is performing pilot duties on the U.S.-registered aircraft described in the certification required by paragraph (b)(2) of this section; and

(5) If the holder has only one special purpose pilot authorization as provided in paragraph (b)(6) of this section.

(e) Age limitation. Except as provided in paragraph (g) of this section, no person who holds a special purpose pilot authorization issued under this part, and no person who holds a special purpose pilot certificate issued under this part before August 4, 1997, shall serve as a pilot on a civil airplane of U.S. registry if the person has reached his or her 60th birthday, in the following operations:

(1) Scheduled international air services carrying passengers in turbojet-powered airplanes;

(2) Scheduled international air services carrying passengers in airplanes having a passenger-seat configuration of more than nine passenger seats, excluding each crewmember seat;

(3) Nonscheduled international air transportation for compensation or hire in airplanes having a passenger-seat configuration of more than 30 passenger seats, excluding each crewmember seat; or

(4) Scheduled international air services, or nonscheduled international air transportation for compensation or hire, in airplanes having a payload capacity of more than 7,500 pounds.

(f) Definitions. (1) International air service, as used in paragraph (e) of this section, means scheduled air service performed in airplanes for the public transport of passengers, mail, or cargo, in which the service passes through the air space over the territory of more than one country.

(2) International air transportation, as used in paragraph (e) of this section, means air transportation performed in airplanes for the public transport of passengers, mail, or cargo, in which service passes through the air space over the territory of more than one country.

(g) Delayed pilot age limitations for certain operations. Until December 20, 1999, a person may serve as a pilot in the operations specified in paragraph (e) of this section after that person has reached his or her 60th birthday, if, on March 20, 1997, that person was employed as a pilot in any of the following operations:

(1) Scheduled international air services carrying passengers in nontransport category turbopropeller-powered airplanes type certificated after December 31, 1964, that have a passenger-seat configuration of 10 to 19 seats;

(2) Scheduled international air services carrying passengers in transport category turbopropeller-powered airplanes that have a passenger-seat configuration of 20 to 30 seats; or

(3) Scheduled international air services carrying passengers in turbojet-powered airplanes having a passenger-seat configuration of 1 to 30 seats.

(h) Expiration date. Each special purpose pilot authorization issued under this section expires—

(1) 60 calendar months from the month it was issued, unless sooner suspended or revoked;

(2) When the lease agreement for the aircraft expires or the lessee terminates the employment of the person who holds the special purpose pilot authorization;

(3) Whenever the person's foreign pilot license has been suspended, revoked, or is no longer valid; or

(4) When the person no longer meets the medical standards for the issuance of the foreign pilot license.

(i) Renewal. A person exercising the privileges of a special purpose pilot authorization may apply for a 60-calendar-month extension of that authorization, provided the person—

(1) Continues to meet the requirements of this section; and

(2) Surrenders the expired special purpose pilot authorization upon receipt of the new authorization.

(j) Surrender. The holder of a special purpose pilot authorization must surrender the authorization to the Administrator within 7 days after the date the authorization terminates.

[Doc. No. 25910, 62 FR 40901, July 30, 1997]

[BelArgUSA]

Hola Natterjack /
xxx
All above statements are correct... but there are a few things to mention.
xxx
You can combine your type rating ride with the initial ATP qualification ride, provided like explained above, you have passed the written... which is easy.
xxx
However, for the type rating... you did not say which one... Fact is, a "first type rating" requires, besides the rating ride in the simulator, that you do fly the actual airplane to complete 3 landings... if that has not been changed since I left the USA...
xxx
Example... you want a type rating on a Citation CE-500, you do the entire training and ATP check ride in a simulator, then you will be required to fly the aircraft for 3 landings (airplane rental 45 minutes...?)... you first type rating, and on a CE-500, quite inexpensive...
xxx
But if you wish, as an example, a B-737 type rating, doing 45 minutes in a B-737 might be quite expensive... So, what you should do, is the CE-500 rating first (with ATP) as explained above, then do the B-737 training and rating, as you now meet the requirements of simulator only training, since you aleady have a jet type rating.
xxx
Typical prices - Citation CE-500 type rating (with ATP) about US$ 6,000, includes airplane rental for the 3 landings... and B-737 rating, all simulator US$ 7,000, but if you do not hold a jet type rating, is US$ 14 or 15,000.
xxx
:)
Happy contrails

[flyboyike]

^^^
That doesn't appear to be correct anymore, at least not entirely. I wasn't required to do any landigs in the airplane for my first (and so far only) type rating, however I do have the "circling approach VMC only" limitation.

[varigflier]

Well, I got shot down on my first try as they said they couldn´t verify who signed my 8710. I did not have a company letter, just 8710, logbook endorsements and training records. I thought that would´ve been enough but they complained about the signature on the 8710. Gotta try again next time.

[natterjack747]

So basically it looks like that I meet all the relevent regs. So I take the ATP written exam and then combine my learjet type rating with the ATP checkride and then I'm granted an FAA ATP with the type rating. Correct?

Thanks

[BelArgUSA]

Affrirmative, Natterjack /
xxx
If you have the written FAA ATP and take the FAA ATP/LR-JET check ride, you will obtain what I read you want to have.
xxx
Your FAA certificate (licence) will read as follows -
"Airline Transport Pilot
"Airplane Multiengine Land - LR-JET
A small detail... Apply for an FCC R/T Operator certificate while you are in the USA, since your airplane will be US registry, you are better to have a R/T certificate that goes along with it. No test, only costs you $10.oo or so...
xxx
Your certificate will remain valid provided that you meet FAR 61.58 (PIC) or 61.55 (SIC) requirements and hold a current FAA medical certificate.
The LR-JET type rating is valid on Lear 23/24/25, 28/29, 31, 35/36 and 55 types.
xxx
:)
Happy contrails

[poorwanderingwun]

One small point that I (and the FAA) somehow overlooked after completing all the tests... On my UK licence I had both Multi and single ratings... having flown a twin for the FAA ATPL check-ride my ATP was issued for multi-eng... no reference to singles... on noticing that, I approached the FAA in the hope of getting it included but was told..too late... I would have to submit myself to another flight test.

[buddy76]

Hi everyone,
I am an Italian Navy pilot with ICAO CPL/ME/IR plus FAA PPL and I currently have 1520hrs TT as a pilot. I flew 280 hrs in T-34C and T-44A with the US Navy before becoming a Naval Aviator in 2001 and the rest (about 1240hrs) have been on big patrol plane ME as SIC (the plane was Breguet 1150 Atlantique requiring 2 pilots and a FE). I am now starting my PIC transition but so far I don't have any PIC time except for solos (22hrs) and 1 hr in the T-44A. I meet all the requirements for ATP experience (XC, night, iNSTR. etc) but, do I QUALIFY for an ATP without any PIC time? (I have 460 hrs performing the duties of a PIC and as PF)..

Thanks a lot for any reply/help.

Fly safe ya'll

[chimbu warrior]

A pass in the written and a checkride might help.

[Hufty]

Has anybody in the US been able to get an ATP upgrade from the CPL/IR with a small amount of P1 time? According to FAR 61.159 you need 250 hours PIC, although you can include P1 under supervision - i.e co-pilot time. I emailed the FAA to check this and they said you need 250 hours of "proper" P1 time i.e. captain and the person being solely responsible for the aeroplane etc....????

[buddy76]

I have been looking for the same answer for quite some time now but I couldn't find a clear statement about it... It seems like those 250 hrs PIC time could be also as "SIC per forming the duties of PIC while under supervision". Does anybody really know anything about it? Has anyone been in the same situation? I currently have 1550 hrs Total Time, I meet all the requirements for the ATP (XC , Instrument, Night) except for the PIC time. I only have 28 hrs as PIC in my so-far-limited aviation career. I have lots of hours in ME acft requiring 2 pilots and a FE and many times I was either "manupulating the controls" or "performing PIC duties under supervision". That way, I would meet the PIC time as well.

Ciao everybody

[kd2473]

Hi,
Anyone able to give me some tips on this? I've checked the Canada Transport website and it seems to indicate that I'd need to do a bunch of exams, but several people have told me it's a straight paper job - any ideas? I have 7,000TT with over 1,000 hours jet.
Cheers

[FlyingNFlying]

Hi, can anyone recommend a good centre where i can get a 737-300 type rating?thx

[squidward]

Anyone have any recommendations as to the best place to go for an A320 type rating?

[Nick 1]

Airbus Centre Toulouse

[flyboyike]

www.panamacademy.com (http://www.panamacademy.com)

[Maxweight]

Howdy All

Just wondering if anyone has any current views on a good TR provider in the US.
Have heard Simcenter in Miami are okay but wondering if anyone has info on other establishments.

Cheers

Maxweight:ok:

[Round D. Globe]

Simcorp Flight Training in Orlando. Heard they were pretty good.

Simcorpflighttraining.com

RDG

[BG101]

Howzit PPruners??

I have an ICAO CPL with SEIR, and I'm currently flying single turbines in africa, but am looking at possibly doing my FAA ATP next year.

I'm lead tp believe that the thoery part is an open bank of questions to be learned off before the exam, but what exactly is involved in the practical side of things?

Can anyone give me a good estimate of cost, and expected duration for training? Also, any recommended FTO's stateside.

Many thanks,

BG:ok:

[Canuck15]

Hey there

I did my FAA ATP a few months back . The written was ok but you do need to study . The flight test was the usual IFR ride in a multi. the medical was no big deal . The thing that took a while for was the TSA clearance required to flight train in the US. There are plenty of good schools around , it depends on what area you want to train in .

good luck

[MungoP]

I did this about 8 years ago but doubt that much has changed...came from a similar position as you're in... The 'written' is a bit of a joke... done on a computer and is little more difficult than you'd expect from a PPL exam in the UK / Europe... however... having said that, the oral you undergo with the FAA examiner who afterwards will fly with you on the flight test can be tough.. he/she will have the results of your written and will know of any weak points... they'll give you a hard time if they suspect you're not up to speed and the more weak areas they discover the harder they'll dig. normally you can expect a couple of hours for the oral but I've heard of them going on for as much as 5 hours when the examiner wasn't happy... and following that grilling you'll have to fly the twin for 2 plus hours... I've heard that this can be easy or tough depending on the examiner... mine was pretty tough... I came from a twin turbine background with no piston experience worth a damn and none in the previous 10 years so playing with stuff like cowl-flaps/mixture etc was all adding to the fun...
One of the strange aspects was not knowing exactly what the examiner would want demonstrated on the flight test... In the US it's unusual to sit the ATPL as we do it... mostly new guys do the CPL then push off to fly night-freight or whatever...or they sit right seat on a feaderliner and upgrade to the ATPL when converting to the left seat... you may find the same problem getting info or maybe I was just unlucky... I went 1st to Comair in Fl and discovered that NOBODY there actually held and ATPL other than the big boss, long retired from the airlines ..and his had expired ! They ran out of suitable aircraft due to maintenance issues so I swapped over to a place in California and more or less made up the training for myself... Good Luck ..

[MarkerInbound]

The FAA prints the "Practical Test Standards" for just about every rating. It is the guide the test is based on and therefore the guidelines for training. The ATP Airplane PTS is here:

http://www.faa.gov/education_research/testing/airmen/test_standards/pilot/media/FAA-S-8081-5.pdf

And your US certificate never expires, you just need a current medical.

[MungoP]

Well.. I did investigate several gov publications but still almost got caught out when the examiner asked for a demonstration of recovery from unusual attitudes while under the hood... hadn't practised that for 12 years ! Maybe I overlooked it in my researches... He also decided to liven up the excersise... After the usual gyrations leaving the Seminol standing on its tail and on telling me to look at the instruments he began hammering me in the ribs repeatedly with his left elbow and shouting "TURBULENCE" over and over ! (He was built by the same people who built the Bay Bridge... about 6ft 3 and must have weighed 250 lbs !)

[JTrain]

For the most efficient way to an FAA ATPL, just go to the AllATPs chain of flight schools. They have ~15 schools across the country. I did mine there - very efficient, they trained me on what the local examiners liked to check on, did two warmup flights and you should be good to go.

[DOJETDRIVER]

"I went 1st to Comair in Fl and discovered that NOBODY there actually held and ATPL other than the big boss, long retired from the airlines ..and his had expired !"

A US/FAA ATP certificate never "expires". It is good till revoked or surrendered.

The holder may not be allowed to exercise certain privileges due to age/medical issues.

[MungoP]

Forgive my wording... yes he was well over the normal retirement age and had probably let his privilages lapse many years previously....

[marcusaurelious]

ALL ATP's will prep you for the written, oral, and checkride very efficiently. Highly recommended.

[confirm-finals?]

Quick question for anyone that knows.

Is it possible to convert an airbus rating from a non UN country (Taiwan) to the FAA Atpl?

Can a CCQ course with minimal sim time as well as sitting the FAA Atpl do the trick (a330 -a320)? And are there any places that offer such a sim or a course?

Cheers

[airbus2boeing]

Buddy of mine works for the FAA and he told me that you have to do the full course and check ride if you want to transfer your type rating from a foreign country (doesn't matter if it's ICAO country or not). It's just like getting an initial type rating all over again. :eek:

[Speedbird744]

This is a question regarding the FAA ATP Eligibility Requirements.

Can you tell me whether the following hours can be accepted toward the 1500total required. The airplane is a c208a and is operated under far 91,its a single pilot aricraft, but the local regulations state that it can be operated with a co-pilot and - or PICUS.
Now theres nothing to say it must have two pilots. Is this acceptable for FAA licence approval?

Many thanks.

[Harmattan96]

Are you asking if you can count hours that you may have logged while acting SIC in a C-208 for insurance purposes?
The fact that there are 2 seats means there can be 2 pilots, unfortunately, it was certified as a single pilot aircraft. Which means two things for you, if you want to accrue SIC and TT in your logbook, you are welcome to it (a few future employers might not agree however); secondly the FAA will not recognize time spent as SIC in an aircraft which was not certificated as such (unless you can prove to be the holder of a CFII rating, or acting as a designated safety pilot during recurrent instrument competency).
Things would have been different if this aircraft was operated under the provisions of 14CFR135 passenger service, there your time does count, because the law requires a multi crew.
Short version, if you were not the PIC (under 14CFR91, this means you physically flew the aircraft), then your time does not even exist for new airman certificate application.

[Speedbird744]

Well I don't mean sic time or safety pilot time, rather Pilot In Command Under supervision, while sitting in the right seat. Or maybe theres no difference between them.

[Check 6]

If you were the "sole manipulator of the controls" and rated to fly this airplane (not type rated, but "airplane single engine land,", then under FAA regulations you can log PIC time.

[galaxy flyer]

In FAA world, I don't believe there is such a thing as PICUS. It is a single pilot plane (C208) operated in a regulatory environment (FAR 91) that did not require a SIC; hence, the time is no different than being a passenger. IF you flew a leg as "sole manipulator" of the controls and were Commercial Pilot with Airplane Single Engine Land (assuming landplane) then you could legally log THOSE hours and credit them toward the ATP as PIC time. The insurance rules are irrelavent to the FAA. Check FAR Part 1 and Part 61.

GF

[spacepodlife]

In FAA world, I don't believe there is such a thing as PICUS.Correct. I hold both FAA and CASA license and I used to have the same problem. The answer is simple, there can be only one PIC and no SIC in a C208 under part 91 operations for the purpose of FAA certification.

The exception is, as stated by Harmattan96, if you were giving dual instruction or acting as designated safety pilot under recurrent instrument competency and under part 135 ops.

drop me a PM if you need further infos

[MozYank]

There can not be a SIC on a single pilot a/c, but there can be numerous PIC's. PIC time for the person who signed for the a/c; PIC time for the person who is the sole manipulator; PIC for the safety pilot(if the sole manipulator is "under the hood"); PIC for the IP and the student(if the student already has a ASEL rating. Any of the above combinations are acceptable. Get this... Sole manip under the hood, safety pilot beside him in front seat, pilot who signed for a/c in the back seat( if s/he is a certificated IP or check airman)--- all can log PIC under FAA rules. I didn't make the rules and do not necessarily agree with this practice, but that is how the FAR's are written. While the latter example is theoretically correct and legal, I think it would be a stretch to log time in that manner.

[Harmattan96]

Speedbird744, sorry for the delay in answering, it has been interesting lately.
There is virtually no such thing as PICUS under FAA regulations. One noted exception is during flight training for multiengined aircraft (if you want more info I'll start a new thread on that).
Therefore, you are welcome, and you should, log all of the time that you MANIPULATED the flight controls in that C208, providing that you can prove to have been trained in the aircraft's operation and systems (in house or FlightSafety, SimuFlite, etc..). That time should be logged as TT, PIC, SE, TURBINE, IFR, whatever you accomplished. This time will count in your total when you fill out the 8710 forms for your ATP-FAA. What you may not count is all the time that you spent twirling your thumbs, enjoying the scenery and talking on the radio.
Long story short: you touchy-feely controls(power levers, yoke, rudder), you log PIC time (strictly under 14 CFR 91 however).
Hope that this is good news for you, feel free to PM me if you need clara.

[freightdawg747]

Hey Mungo P ......Was the ride with "Turbulence" in Florida by any chance with an examiner having the initials FJ.

[Spinner69]

Hi everyone.

I currently hold a NZ CPL and want a FAA ATPL. Ive heard its just a case of a written multi choice questionaire thats fairly straight foward. Is there also an oral component or a flight test? Would I have to first convert to a FAA CPL and then sit the exam for the FAA ATPL?

Can anybody point me in the right direction of a school or organisation with good pass rates for the FAA ATPL on the west coast. Prefer LA or San Fran.:ok:

Also any idea of costs?

Cheers.

[MungoP]

You'll be able to find answers to all your Qs if you take the trouble to access the FAA website.. I believe that it's www.faa.org it's resonably user friendly. Also you can find a wealth of information on the Pprune seach facility as the subject has been covered ad nauseaum over the years.

Assuming that you qualify on hours, you will have to sit a 'writtten' (online), you may be able to do this while still in NZ... it's very simple, little more than a PPL written in Europe... You will then have to take a flying exam which involves an oral followed by the actual flying... The oral can be anything from 2 hours upwards, depending on your examiner and your performance and goes someway to mitigating the ease of the 'written' exam... the flying exam can be be tough, again depending on your examiner, unlike the European (and probably NZ) flight tests, it combines the Instrument flying and general handling into one test, again, apprx 2 1/2 hours.

I'm not current on who to recommmend.. there are very many schools scattered country-wide though few will know exactly what's required by way of the actual flight test for the ATP as most US pilots simply do the CPL and wait until a company sponsors them for a type-rating, combining the APT check-ride with the type check-ride. You'll need to do some research.

[tyndalljet]

Hi there,

Any idea where in London can i take the computerized test? Any contact details? I'm planning to convert my ICAO ATP to FAA. Thanx

[MarkerInbound]

The FAA web site has the list and there's a place in England.

[B200Drvr]

FSI Farnborough. does FAA knowledge tests,a little pricey though.

[Mogas]

Hello,

I have a Canadian commercial and multi-IFR and would like to know how I should go about to obtain an FAA ATP

[sispanys ria]

Hi,
is there any chance I can convert my JAA ATP theory instead of attending the 550$ computerized exam ?
I plan to go for the checkride during my type rating in the US but would appreciate to save time and money out of the written exam.
Thanks

[SNS3Guppy]

Are you asking about obtaining your FAA ATPL? If you're enquiring about taking the knowledge exam, sometimes referred to as the "written test," then it's typically about eighty US dollar or so. Not five hundred fifty. You will need to take the FAA test, but it's a simple test. You can study it online or buy study discs, or study manuals...which are fairly inexpensive. Try Sporty's online, or any other US pilot supply place. The FAA publishes all the test questions and all the test materials also provide you with the answers.

Clearly you should study the material rather than memorize the answers, but with that review information in hand, it's very hard to fail a FAA knowledge exam these days.

It certainly won't cost five hundred dollars.

[sispanys ria]

Hi SNS3Guppy !
Thank you for your post.
In fact 550 $ is what it costs if I want to do it abroad through CAE...
To make my question clearer:
I have a JAR CPL IR ME and already hold the JAR ATP written exams

As I will soon go for a type rating in the US, I would like to use this occasion to get a full US ATP by doing the checkride after the type rating. My question is: can I convert my JAR ATP written exams or should I go for this costly exam ? I think it would be fair to convert the JAA exams according to their high requirements...
I can't find any info on this since most people are trying to do the opposite...

[SNS3Guppy]

Your european ATPL written will not suffice. You will need to take the FAA written.

You do not need to do this with Simuflite or FSI...you can do it at any flight school in the US that has testing facilities. The cost will be eighty to one hundred US dollars...somewhere in that range, depending on where you go.

You do not need a course. You can buy the preparation software for a few dollars and study on your own.

You can take the practical ATPL test at the same time as the type rating test. Functionally, the type test and the ATP practical exam are identical; same maneuvers, same procedures, everyting. It's the same ride. If your paperwork is prepared in advance, there's no good reason why you would need to take the type ride, then go back for the ATP ride.

Let your training provider know in advance what you intend to do.

[CaptainKing]

Hi there,

I have heard that, unlike other countries, you only have to write one ATPL exam. Then do an oral exam and a flight test. Is this true?

Thanks

[dartagnan]

yes, it's true.

it takes 2-3 weeks to study the ATP,and a 60-80 computerized quizz. you need 1500h tt to be eligible to pass the practical test.

But US pilots have more general experience than EU 200h jobless pilots waiting at home to fly a big jet:E .

[CaptainKing]

You say that you need 1500 hours to do the flight test, do you also have to have 1500 hours to write the exams?

Thanks

[MarkerInbound]

Yes, no "frozen" ATP in the US.

[MarkerInbound]

Having had a look at the new Inspector's Handbook, what I just said may not be true anymore. You do still have to be approved to take the written test but the guidance only says the authorization must be dated to expire on the same date that the applicant's medical will expire.

The reg (61.153(e)) just says that applicant must meet the experience requirements before applying for the flight test. Don't know why that would be there if you had to prove your times before the written.

[weasil]

You do NOT have to have 1500 hrs to attempt the written test. You do have to meet the aeronautical experience requirements to attempt the practical test.

[angelorange]

Have 5000 TT, A320 and B200 ratings on JAR ATPL. Also have old FAA Private licence from 1994.

To convert to FAA ATP what do I need apart from written test.

Should I do Check ride in A320 SIM as an LPC or Fly King Air B200?

What are best schools in US for this?

Also have FI ratings and Military QFI ratings - are these recognised by FAA?

Cheers

[varigflier]

If it hasn't changed, you need to take the commercial written and atp written as well as the commercial checkride and atp checkride. They can be done in single and multi engine aircraft. No need to do it in a simulator unless you want to.
As far as schools go, it's up to you which one fits you best. For conversion, I would recommend the bigger, well known schools as they usually do it in as little time as possible. Just my 2 cents.

VF

[Brie]

There is something unclear to me.

I have a JAA CPL with ir and type rating. I have approx 950TT

I'm going to do the written atp test (FAA) in Paris BUT i want to do the practical test during my JAA recurrent in the states (in the sim). Ofcourse since i don't have a atpl i want to go for a FAA cpl with ir and typerating.

Do i also need the 1500TT????

Someone can explain???

[varigflier]

No, you don't need the 1500 hours unless you are going for the ATP. You are ok with your time for the FAA commercial.

VF

[MaintainYourHeading]

Hi all,

I have a single engine CPL and multi engine CPL. I may have a chance to take a multi engine ATP practical test but not single engine ATP test. However I will still need to fly single engines with CPL priviledges only (instruct on singles).

is it possible to hold a multi engine ATP license and a single engine CPL license at the same time ?

Thank you

Julien

[B2N2]

is it possible to hold a multi engine ATP license and a single engine CPL license at the same time

Yes it is.
Your will have a limitation stating " Single engine Commercial priviliges only" or something similar.

[SNS3Guppy]

Should I do Check ride in A320 SIM as an LPC or Fly King Air B200?



The B200 type rating in the US isn't required, as it's under 12,500 lbs. No type rating required. Unless you're flying a variant with a weight in excess of 12,500 lbs (C-12, for example), one won't be issued, either.

Yes it is.
Your will have a limitation stating " Single engine Commercial priviliges only" or something similar.


Close. The FAA issues certificates, rather than licenses. Whether it's the ATP or commercial, it's still just one pilot certificate, with various ratings. Ratings are had in category and class, and may be held at various levels of privilege.

One may hold a pilot certificate with ATP privileges for Airplane, Multi-Engine Land, but at the same time hold on the same certificate Commercial privileges for Airplane, Single-Engine Land.

[managed_mode]

I hold a FAA ATP with the restriction "Holder does not meet the pilot flight requirements as per ICAO".

I have sufficient experience to have that restriction removed. Once you present satisfactory evidence to the FAA, they will remove the above restriction.

However, is there any way to do this by e-mail or fax as I don't want to have to go all the way to the States only to have that restriction removed.

I already tried contacting the FAA. No luck:ugh:

[MarkerInbound]

The only guidance given the FAA Inspectors is:

1) Enter the correct limitations.

a) Enter “HOLDER DOES NOT MEET THE PILOT-IN-COMMAND FLIGHT EXPERIENCE REQUIREMENTS OF ICAO” if the applicant meets the requirements of § 61.159 (http://javascript<b></b>:openPage('/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFar.nsf/FARSBySectLookup/61.159','')) .

b) Enter “HOLDER DOES NOT MEET THE PILOT-IN-COMMAND AERONAUTICAL EXPERIENCE REQUIREMENTS OF ICAO” if the applicant meets the total flight time requirement only by applying § 61.159(d) (http://javascript<b></b>:openPage('/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFar.nsf/FARSBySectLookup/61.159','d')) and does not meet the criteria of § 61.159(e) (http://javascript<b></b>:openPage('/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFar.nsf/FARSBySectLookup/61.159','e')) .

c) An inspector should remove the limitations listed in paragraphs K1a and b above when the applicant presents satisfactory evidence that he or she has met the pertinent regulatory requirements.


They don't really say how you present your evidence.

What do you mean by saying you've had no luck contacting the FAA? The one time I've had a certificate come back wrong, I've found the Airman Certification Branch in Oklahoma City helpful.

[managed_mode]

I sent a message to the Philly FSDO since that was the one I dealt with last. I got a repsonse from them telling me that I should contact the New York Int'l Field Office. I contacted them only to find out they will also look into it. Its been a couple of weeks already..............

I just want to know whether I can present the evidence my mail, such as certified logbook copy or 8710 or whatever other documentation. Since I am overseas, I do not wish to make a trip to the U.S only for this.

[MarkerInbound]

The people in Oklahoma City are the one who actually process the paperwork.

Contact the Airmen Certification Branch (http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/contact_airmen_certification/)

There is an e-mail link, fax number and phone number. The time my certificate was screwed up, I called the designee, didn't hear anything for 6 weeks, called a friend who works for the FAA locally and he said call 405-954-3261. I called, a real person answered the phone, I told them the problem, they pulled up my file and said I was right and they would fix the certificate. In ten days I had a correct certificate in the mail box.

Try the e-mail if you don't want to set your alarm clock for the middle of the night. I get to teach some FAA inspectors this week, :ugh:I'll ask them about your situation. It's probably outside their normal area of work but they should be able to point you in the right direction.

[managed_mode]

Thanks MarkerInbound.......so far these are the actual replies I received.....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for your question. This can be accomplished through our
International Field Office(s) (IFO). Where are you located at this time?
Once I know this, I'll be better prepared to provide you with the proper
IFO. Once you contact them, you'll be looking for an operations inspector
to have the limitation removed. Hope this helps. Please contact me with
your location. Thanks again.

Philadelphia FSDO

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Also tried e-mailing the general e-mail address of the faa

9-AMC-AVS-Support-Centralatfaadotgov

received the following reply

----------------------------------------------------------------------

This is not something we can answer for you as our support for IACRA is strictly computer related. We have to direct you to an FAA office, your recommending instructor or designated examiner for an answer to this question.

You can search for the nearest FAA office here : Flight Standards District Offices (FSDO) (http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/field_offices/fsdo/)


Kind regards,
AVS Support Central
9-AMC-AVS-Support-Centralatfaadotgov
Public Customers 1-866-285-4942
Government Employees 1-405-954-7272

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I called the phone number you mentioned i.e. 405-954-3261. I spoke to an examiner and she told me basically that I would personally have to meet with an inspector at a FSDO to have that restriction removed. She said I could try talking to the New York int'l field office.

Looks like there is no other way to do this other than making a trip to the States.....:ugh:

Thanks for your help though.....:ok:

[MarkerInbound]

Yeah, the Inspectors I talked with said you would have to appear before an Inspector because you are getting a new certificate and would have to sign the temporary certificate after you show the time logged.

You might see if FAA office in London or Frankfurt can do it. I know the FAA office in Sinapore is maintenance only and does not do pilot stuff. Good luck.

[managed_mode]

FAA office in London or Frankfurt can't do it either. They don't have an Operations Inspector.

The only closest place for me is the New York Int'l field office.

[MarkerInbound]

Sorry to hear that.

[Pin Head]

Question;

How do i convert a Canadian ATPL to a FAA ATPL? is it a costly, long process? Flight test?

I am looking to possibly put a B777 rating on it after.

[Panama Jack]

Get your hands on FAA Advisory Circular AC No: 61-135.

It will answer all of your questions.

[SNS3Guppy]

Get your hands on FAA Advisory Circular AC No: 61-135.


AC 61-135 - Conversion Procedures and Processes for FAA Pilot Certificates and TCCA Pilot Licenses - Document Information (http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentID/74437)

[weasil]

SNS - thanks for posting the AC on here.

[Pin Head]

Can I pay the cash, do the course and then put it on the licence? (e.g with Pan Am Academy)

Do they count ZFT in the US? I have Boeing experience to date?

Pin

[NZ X man]

Do you already have the FAA ATPL? Then you can pay the money and the FAA will put it on your license, providing you get through the check ride.

[Pin Head]

Looking to convert to a FAA ATP from a Canadian ATPL. I have to study for the above exams. Is it two or just one exam? WHat books do I need? I have Test Prep Airline Transpoprt Pilot 07 (studying chapters Regulations and Flight Operations) and Computer Testing Supplement for Airline Transport Pilot and Aircraft Despatcher.

All other info greatfully received!

Pin

[MarkerInbound]

It's just one 40 queston test. I don't know if the test has been updated since 07, if the question comes comes up about what the age limit is for 121 ops, remember it's 65.

[josmison]

Guys

I have about 1500 hrs total flight time of which about 700 are PIC time on F-27 ( co pilot ) i would like to know does those PIC time ( since there are as co pilot) count towards the required flight experience in order to take the practical test of an FAA ATP .

Any help with that appreciated

[vape]

hello guys anybody have news about this school? thank you very much or your info... bye

[MarkerInbound]

Josmison,

I'm not sure want square you're trying to fill. The regs say:

"(4) 250 hours of flight time in an airplane as a pilot in command, or as second in command performing the duties of pilot in command while under the supervision of a pilot in command, or any combination thereof, which includes at least—
(i) 100 hours of cross-country flight time; and
(ii) 25 hours of night flight time."

So you can count the SIC time to meet the 250 hours PIC.

"(c) A commercial pilot may credit the following second-in-command flight time or flight-engineer flight time toward the 1,500 hours of total time as a pilot required by paragraph (a) of this section:
(1) Second-in-command time, provided the time is acquired in an airplane—
(i) Required to have more than one pilot flight crewmember by the airplane's flight manual, type certificate, or the regulations under which the flight is being conducted;
(ii) Engaged in operations under subpart K of part 91, part 121, or part 135 of this chapter for which a second in command is required; or
(iii) That is required by the operating rules of this chapter to have more than one pilot flight crewmember."

So were the 700 hours flown under 121?

[josmison]

Thank you marker inbound

Your answer clears it up very well . Those 700 were under 121

josmison
regards

[jimmygill]

Quote:
In FAA world, I don't believe there is such a thing as PICUS.

Correct. I hold both FAA and CASA license and I used to have the same problem. The answer is simple, there can be only one PIC and no SIC in a C208 under part 91 operations for the purpose of FAA certification.

The exception is, as stated by Harmattan96, if you were giving dual instruction or acting as designated safety pilot under recurrent instrument competency and under part 135 ops.

drop me a PM if you need further infos

Wrong,
as per 14CFR 61.59
4) 250 hours of flight time in an airplane as a pilot in command, or as second n command performing the duties of pilot in command while under the supervision of a pilot in command, or any combination thereof, which includes at least—

[luftwaffe]

Hi fellow aviators and belated Happy New Year to all of you

I am due for my PC this coming Feb on the DASH8 and was wondering if you guys could confirm my plan of action:ok:

Got a FAA CPL ME/SE land with IR and would like to "upgrade" to the FAA ATP. I do meet all the flight time requirements to take the checkride and have the Dash8 rating (100-400) on another ICAO CPL license. Now is it possible to

1. Take the written exam
2. The grueling (or not) ATP oral
3. Then the ATP checkride on the Dash8
4. Hopefully be send home with a handshake and "CONGRATZ":ok:

Would there be a problem if two examiner (local CAA plus the FAA one) would sit back in, relax and see me sweating?

I do hold an ICAO First class medical, and would there still be the need to get a FAA 3rd class medical, as I am just doing the check in the SIM??? And if I pass will the type rating on the ATP be a SIC or PIC one :confused:

Got 1000hrs plus on the Dash8 but haven't been too much exposed to FAA regs. for quite some time.

How can I prepare for the Oral as the Check itself is already outlined in the PTS? :}:}:}

Any constructive input is more than welcome and feel free to pm me anytime!

HELP WANTED!!!:ok:

Cheers,

luftwaffe

[MarkerInbound]

I think the hardest thing will be to find a sim that is approved by both the FAA and your local CAA and to get the two inspectors together at the same time. Also if there are things one requires and the other doesn't it might be confusing.

You don't need any medical to take the check in the sim, however you have to have a current First Class to take the written. If you have 1000 hours on the plane, you shouldn't have much of a problem on the oral. You should be able to explain all the switches and lights on the panel. And give an overview of all the systems. Plus the memory items on the checklist. You may also have to do a basic performance problem, runway required with snow on the runway or something off the performance charts.

I would think you would want the PIC type rating, the FAA doesn't even do the checkride for the SIC rating.

[echapement]

Guys
i hold an australian CPL+ME/IR and frozen ATPL from Emirates aviation college, my total flying experience is 239.3,am a Lebanese citizen and i cant find not job at all all around for 1 year a 2 months now..can anyone please give me some guidance in what i can do and where to go.help is really really appreciated :)

[Droste]

For the ATP knowledge test result, is it only good for two years?

[ahwalk01]

The ATP knowledge test is good for 2 years unless you are employed by a part 121 company and have gone through their training program - only then you can take the ATP checkride with an expired written.

Alex.

[Pardes]

sounds like a Qatari :bored:

[thornycactus]

Supposely, FAA ATP requirements have been met and to apply for FAA (SE) ATP, can the checkride be done in an ordinary C172 airplane? If yes, must it be complex airplane?

What about ME ATP, can the checkride be done in any light twin?

[rick1128]

For a SE ATP it does NOT need to be done in a complex SE aircraft. The PTS will provide the practical test requirements. Plus a ME ATP can be done in a light twin aircraft. Any type rating you hold on your FAA certificate will be transferred over to your new ATP, with not Commercial Pilot limitations. The reasoning on that is that type ratings on FAA certificates are done to ATP standards. All the aircraft has to be capable of doing is the maneuvers and the approaches required by the PTS.

As for the SIC performing the duties of PIC under the supervision of the PIC is a very gray area. I would say that if you were not PIC typed in the aircraft, then the supervised PIC time, might not be valid. This regulation was written long before ICAO jammed the SIC type rating down our throats.

Concerning the oral exam, the big items are systems, emergency procedures, CRM, ADM and regulations.

[MarkerInbound]

"As for the SIC performing the duties of PIC under the supervision of the PIC is a very gray area. I would say that if you were not PIC typed in the aircraft, then the supervised PIC time, might not be valid. This regulation was written long before ICAO jammed the SIC type rating down our throats."

Read 61.159. It says "(4) 250 hours of flight time in an airplane as a pilot in command, or as second in command performing the duties of pilot in command while under the supervision of a pilot in command, or any combination thereof..."

There isn't a tradition in the US of having the PIC sign the SIC's logbook but if you have 600 hours in multipilot aircraft where you swap legs it shouldn't be too hard to come up with 250 hours.

[av8r76]

After reading through the whole gamut of replies there still seems to be a lot of confusion on the whole ICAO-FAA conversion requirements.

I seem to be in a rather unique situation as well. Any one with help or info... please do

ICAO ATP with 737ng PIC endorsement 3200 total 510 PIC current
FAA CPL MEIR

Would like to get the FAA ATP with NG PIC endorsement.

Do I need the WHOLE TR course or will a sim check suffice. Any info would be appreciated as the cost difference is quite significant.

Regards 76

[Rotorhead1026]

ICAO ATP with 737ng PIC endorsement

Which ICAO? If it's Canada you may not have to take a checkride. The problem there is that you ALREADY have an FAA license. I'm not sure of the process of upconverting to an ATP. There's a link on the Transport Canada website, but it's not very clear, IIRC.

All you REALLY need as far as FAA is concerned is a signed recommendation on the 8710 and your ATP written - you just have to get someone to sign you off. You already have the required experience per 14CFR61. The full course shouldn't be required.

EDIT ... That's what I get while answering while jetlagged. Actually, 14CFR142 applies as well, and the full course may be required as a part of the operators FAA approval. I don't know. The OP is going to find out for sure and hopefully will update here. Were it a checkride in the actual airplane the previous paragraph would be valid.

[pagasky]

Question? Was told by someone that one can apply to have a rating on ICAO ATPL added to your FAA ATP by submitting an application to Oklahoma, who will seek verification from the issuing country CAA, and if all is in order, the same may be added to the FAA ATP.
Is this true?
Anyone out there done this?
Where do I find this information on FAA website?

I ask because , if this is possible, it would save me a lot of money and headaches adding the rating of a type which I currently fly and have lots of time on.

Thanks.

[RjAgCR]

Hi all, this seems to be place to ask this question ... maybe stupid or not but I need to be clear...

I have a Commercial FAA ME/Instrument Rating, I fly ICAO Commercial as well but with A320 type ratings as F/O.. all of my flying on type has been done on a N tail aircraft using a Special purpose from the FAA ....

My question is simple, is an FAA ATPL considered an ICAO ATPL? I fly as F/O and want to apply for a job in the ME but they require an ICAO ATPL in order to apply, here I wont be given an ICAO ATPL unless I get an upgrade to PIC by the company...and that is years from happening!

So I want to be sure before I go spending any money on getting the FAA ATPL ... the other question is once I have the FAA ATPL can I get my A320 type rating on the license?? is this possible without going through a sim check or similar..???:confused:

Thanks a lot...

[RjAgCR]

Hi all, this seems to be place to ask this question ... maybe stupid or not but I need to be clear...

I have a Commercial FAA ME/Instrument Rating, I fly ICAO Commercial as well but with A320 type ratings as F/O.. all of my flying on type has been done on a N tail aircraft using a Special purpose from the FAA ....

My question is simple, is an FAA ATPL considered an ICAO ATPL? I fly as F/O and want to apply for a job in the ME but they require an ICAO ATPL in order to apply, here I wont be given an ICAO ATPL unless I get an upgrade to PIC by the company...and that is years from happening!

So I want to be sure before I go spending any money on getting the FAA ATPL ... the other question is once I have the FAA ATPL can I get my A320 type rating on the license?? is this possible without going through a sim check or similar..???http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif

Thanks a lot...
http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/statusicon/user_online.gif http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.pprune.org/report.php?p=5980430)

[CrazyStuntPilot]

FAA is ICAO, no worries here. I don't know about the transfer of your type rating to FAA though.

[RjAgCR]

CrazyStuntPilot - Thanks for the reply .... :ok:

[Check 6]

For clarification ICAO does not issue licenses/certificates. The term "ICAO ATPL" or "ICAO Commercial" mean certificates/licenses issued by an ICAO "member state." The US is a member state of ICAO so yes, an FAA ATP is an ICAO ATPL.

[RjAgCR]

Thanks ...that was the clarification I needed, I knew that but wasn't sure ... :cool:

Can a A320 type be added to the FAA ATPL without having to take a sim check and tests...?? :confused:

[varigflier]

For a SIC rating it's just a matter of paperwork. For a PIC rating you need to take a checkride with an FAA examiner.

[SNS3Guppy]

If you already hold a type rating, then a checkride or practical test isn't necessary to get it transferred to your FAA certificate.

[RjAgCR]

Thanks guys ... where on the FAA website is this information, so I know how to do it once I have the FAA ATPL...??? :confused:

I was planning to take the practical for the ATP @ ATP Flight School in FLL... any thoughts on this? is it a good idea or are there better options out there...?? Any comments will really help me...:ugh:

[varigflier]

I did both my multi and my ATPL with ATP and I really liked them.

[411A]

If you already hold a type rating, then a checkride or practical test isn't necessary to get it transferred to your FAA certificate.

True for SIC privileges.
Not true for PIC.

[much2much]

so does this mean you can still fly airline as a co-pilot on a FAA com,most icao require at least frozen ATPL
i ask gado office some years ago if i could put my 757 rating pi/p2 caa on my FAA
licence and the said no i need to do sim.since the FAA lic was not issued on the back of another state lic containing the rating
just curious here

[L G Cooper]

Greetings All,

I have an ICAO ATPL (unfrozen) and am fully aware of the TSA/DHS issues surrounding training in the US, and i want to convert to an FAA ATP. I have seen in posts dating back to 2007 suggesting that I would be able to do the theory component first and then wrap up the practical at the same time as doing the intended type rating - this is all working toward a corporate job, the initial type rating would be done at CAE Simuflite or Gulfstream factory.

That being said is anybody aware of recent data that indicates one is able to do the ATP practical and bizjet type rating at the same time? Is there an issue from the perspective of the FAA or maybe even CAE (or the like)?

Grazie.
LGC:ok:

[rick1128]

LG,

First of all Gulfstream does not run their own factory school. It is actually Flight Safety that has the facility in Savannah.

Iver the years of going to FSI and Simuflite, I have meet many pilots that were doing their ATP in conjunction with their type rating. The Practical Test Standards (PTS) are the same for the type rating and the ATP. However, it appears that you do not have a FAA Commercial. That being the case, I think you will have to check the FAA website for the conversion requirements. If you know which facility you are going to, I suggest calling them as far in advance as you can and get a game plan lined up. This conversion could take some time.

[411A]

so does this mean you can still fly airline as a co-pilot on a FAA com,most icao require at least frozen ATPL
Yes...the FAA does not have a frozen anything...you either have it or you don't.

i ask gado office some years ago if i could put my 757 rating pi/p2 caa on my FAA
licence and the said no i need to do sim.since the FAA lic was not issued on the back of another state lic containing the rating
just curious here
Old procedure.
New procedure, provided you have sufficient log entries and recent experience, the FAA will now allow an SIC rating (only), even though it was a foreign registered aircraft that the flying was completed on.
I just signed the form for a new First Officer using this procedure three months ago.

[411A]

Contact a FSDO, I would suggest the one an KVNY, as they are very familiar with the process....now.:\

[MarkerInbound]

He's got an ICAO ATP, doesn't need the FAA Comm. He can do the FAA ATP written and then the checkride and have a stand alone FAA ATP with the type rating on it.

[L G Cooper]

Thanks Rick,

Why would I require an FAA Commercial if I meet all the requirements for conversion to FAA ATP Cert? I would have though that the ATP is a higher class of license as well as being more appropriate to the type of operations that I'd be conducting.

LGC:ok:

[Harvey320]

hey guys,

can anyone tell me if this is the complete question bank or just part of it. :confused:

http://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/airmen/test_questions/media/ATPSampleExam.pdf

thank you

[CrazyStuntPilot]

That's a very little part of it. Try Sheppard Air, they have the best training software around IMO. Minimal studying time compared to studying with books or other software, and you'll score a very high score.

[MarkerInbound]

LGC,

You'd have a ATP MultiEngine Land with a Gulfstream type. You could fly any twin up to 12,500 pounds takeoff weight and the Gulfstream.

[Harvey320]

Thank you crazystunt!

I already have the Gleim test prep software and I think it's ok, what do you guys think?

Another thing, I'm scheduled for flight training at ATP flightschool in LGB end of november. Does anyone have any experience with them? Are they ok? :confused:

[GrkPilot]

Hey guys, quick question.
I have a JAA ATPL(also type rated on AVRORJ 100) and I want to convert it to a FAA ATPL.
I also have a FAA CPL wondering what the process is besides the validation of foreign license paperwork the FAA is asking for. Thank you.

[Hawker719]

Hi, I am a Hawker pilot with total time of 1620 out of which 1150 PIC and 60 Hawker PIC. I hold PIC type Rating on my FAA Commercial Pilot License and like to go for ATP very soon but not sure if i meet the ATP experience requirement at the moment? FAA requires 1500 pilot time and i dunno if my SIC time of 550 would count towards the total of 1500, Hawker is a two crew airplane.
I shall very much appreciate if some one can help me on this.
Thanx..

[MarkerInbound]

Read 61.159
§ 61.159 Aeronautical experience: Airplane category rating.

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b), (c), and (d) of this section, a person who is applying for an airline transport pilot certificate with an airplane category and class rating must have at least 1,500 hours of total time as a pilot that includes at least:
(1) 500 hours of cross-country flight time.
(2) 100 hours of night flight time.
(3) 75 hours of instrument flight time, in actual or simulated instrument conditions...
(4) 250 hours of flight time in an airplane as a pilot in command ...
(c) A commercial pilot may credit the following second-in-command flight time or flight-engineer flight time toward the 1,500 hours of total time as a pilot required by paragraph (a) of this section:
(1) Second-in-command time, provided the time is acquired in an airplane—
(i) Required to have more than one pilot flight crewmember by the airplane's flight manual, type certificate, or the regulations under which the flight is being conducted;

I'd question if you're ready for the ATP if you can't find a reg.

[VJW]

Quick question, apologise if it's been answered before.

I'm a UK JAR CPL (A) holder with 2000 TT of which 1700 is on B737. I also have the FAA PPL piggybacked from my UK licence.

I'm wanting to obtain the FAA ATP, and I plan on doing it all on a light twin for which I have found a school.

I am a UK and Canadian Citizen, married to a US citizen (hence the reason for the conversion).

My question is, do I need TSA clearance to convert to FAA ATP? Or was that just for initial training?

In addition, once I complete the conversion, can the examiner put the 737 onto the new FAA ATP based on the verification letter I have from the FAA?

Kind regards
VJW

[Tinstaafl]

What a coincidence, VJW! I was at an FAA Safety Team CFI conference yesterday and the head of the TSA vetting department was there to talk about foreign national background checks. In short, if you're not a US citizen you need the TSA check for:

* the first issue of a pilot licence, but not subsequent licences eg get TSA vetted for a PPL, won't need to do it again for CPL or ATP. The piggy back PPL doesn't count as a prior certificate.

* Instrument rating

* Multi engine

* Every type rating ie aircraft above 12500 lb

So, from the info. you gave you would need the background check.

[VJW]

Hey thanks for reply. Was thinking the same. Only thing I'll add is I did the TSA clearance before. I needed it when i did my jar ppl at a uk approved American school.

Hoping that'll be classed as my fist licence, but I know it won't as much as I wish it did.

[MarkerInbound]

Does your piggyback PPL have instrument privileges? It looks like they can put the 737 rating on your PPL and then transfer it to a stand alone certificate. If you don't have INST privileges the type would be limited to VFR ONLY which won't do you much good. You'd think if they will do that they would just add it to the stand alone certificate but they are the FAA and their ways are mysterious. You should check with the Airman Certification Branch in Oklahoma City.

[VJW]

Hi

Ya I have an FAA IR. I had the FAA PPL issued on basis of my UK PPL at the time, then did an FAA IR course.

Since then I've gone on to get the JAR CPL /IR and 2000 hrs 737 time.

[MarkerInbound]

So you have "US Test Passed" on your certificate. Reading the FAA's guidance, if the instructor who did the training for the type held a FAA CFI, it will transfer to the piggyback and can then transfer to the stand alone. From the FAA's FSIMS:
6) Type Rating. When a type rating is shown on the U.S. pilot certificate (meaning a U.S. pilot certificate that was issued on the basis of a foreign pilot license), that aircraft type rating will be limited to “VFR ONLY” if the person has not passed either the IFP knowledge test or the standard instrument rating knowledge test and the standard instrument rating practical test (see § 61.65 (http://javascript<b></b>:openPage('/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFar.nsf/FARSBySectLookup/61.65',''))).
NOTE: Applicants who apply for a type rating with the notation “U.S. TEST PASSED” on their U.S. pilot certificate must have received the required training from a holder of an FAA flight instructor certificate with the appropriate ratings (see part 61 (http://javascript<b></b>:openPage('/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFar.nsf/FARSBySect?OpenView&count=-1&RestrictToCategory=Part++61','')), § 61.63(d) (http://javascript<b></b>:openPage('/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFar.nsf/FARSBySectLookup/61.63','d')) or § 61.157(b) (http://javascript<b></b>:openPage('/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFar.nsf/FARSBySectLookup/61.157','b')), as appropriate). If the aircraft type rating is for an aircraft with a gross takeoff weight of greater than 12,500 pounds, the applicant must also complete a background security check administered by the TSA. The reporting requirements of the TSA’s background check is on its Web site at: http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/layers/afsp/editorial_multi_image_with_table_0215.shtm (http://www.tsa.gov/what_we_do/layers/afsp/editorial_multi_image_with_table_0215.shtm) or at: http://www.tsa.gov (http://www.tsa.gov/) .
NOTE: Once the applicant has qualified for the “U.S. TEST PASSED” rating on a U.S. pilot certificate under § 61.75 (http://javascript<b></b>:openPage('/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFar.nsf/FARSBySectLookup/61.75','')), the aircraft rating and/or type rating annotated with the notation “U.S. TEST PASSED” is eligible for transfer to a unrestricted U.S. pilot certificate without any further showing of competency or practical test if the applicant later obtains an unrestricted U.S. pilot certificate.

[sidestick pilot]

Helo ,

I am holder of jaa atpl, and now I am doing my FAA ATPL.
DOES SOMEBODY KNOWS WHEN FAA ISSUES TO ME ATP LICENCE, IS THERE ANY RESTRICTION HOW OLD OR NEW MY FAA MEDICAL MUST BE, CAUSE I WILL MAKE IT FOR THE FIRST TIME (I HAVE CLASS 1 JAA MEDICAL FOR YEARS, BUT NOT FAA)?

I'm asking that because I plan to go to Paris in April for ATP theory exam, then in May attend my ATP check ride sim in Miami,USA, so I dont know should I do it now or wait until May in order that FAA authorities can not tell me that I have to old FAA medical.

In my country there is no FAA medical examiner so I am obliged to have a small trip to get it. Other question is that I have JAA class 1 but expired 1 year ago since I am not working in aviation, should I take it to medical tests and is it harder to pass regarding JAA medicals?

[muntisk]

Is it possible to get FAA ATP if i have frozen JAA ATPL with more than 1500 hours? Or i must have JAA ATPL?

[raysalmon]

The pre-requisite for an FAA ATP is either an ATP or Commercial Pilot's License with Instrument rating issued by an ICAO contracting state. So a "frozen" JAA ATPL would meet that requirement since technically you hold a Commercial with Instrument.

You would however, have to go through all of the aeronautical experience requirements for the category and class of aircraft you want to get your ATP in and make sure you meet all those requirements. Google FAA FAR 61.159 (or just look a few posts up from this one and it's quoted for you) and that will get you to the aeronautical experience requirements for the ATP airplane category rating.

You would also be required to pass the FAA written test and practical test.

[raysalmon]

Helo ,

I am holder of jaa atpl, and now I am doing my FAA ATPL.
DOES SOMEBODY KNOWS WHEN FAA ISSUES TO ME ATP LICENCE, IS THERE ANY RESTRICTION HOW OLD OR NEW MY FAA MEDICAL MUST BE, CAUSE I WILL MAKE IT FOR THE FIRST TIME (I HAVE CLASS 1 JAA MEDICAL FOR YEARS, BUT NOT FAA)?

I'm asking that because I plan to go to Paris in April for ATP theory exam, then in May attend my ATP check ride sim in Miami,USA, so I dont know should I do it now or wait until May in order that FAA authorities can not tell me that I have to old FAA medical.

In my country there is no FAA medical examiner so I am obliged to have a small trip to get it. Other question is that I have JAA class 1 but expired 1 year ago since I am not working in aviation, should I take it to medical tests and is it harder to pass regarding JAA medicals?

In order to take the ATP practical test you must have a minimum of a FAA third class medical certificate. In order to exercise the privileges of your ATP you must have a first class medical certificate. If your practical test is satisfactory, you are issued with a temporary certificate at the completion of the test.

[mohamad haziq]

hi guys,
i need to convert my australian license to jaa license.
could you guys help me with this???

[david2000]

Hello all, I have a really big doubt about the regs need some advise, i was reading on the faa atp topic you provide good information and help, my deal is that i want to get my atp cert from the faa.

Well i've been flying in mex since i got my comm., currently i now hold the mexican atp with 2200 tt, 737 but im struggling on the definition or understanding of the FAR 61.159 (4)250 hours of flight time in an airplane as a pilot in command, or as second in command performing the duties of pilot in command while under the supervision of a pilot in command, or any combination thereof, which includes at least--

Since i dont have 250 pic i want to know if i could take my atp ride with my part 121 sic time to cover that part of the required time in the far, it would be of great help your anwser or where could i go to thanks.

[westhawk]

David,

It appears to me that since you seem to meet all the aeronautical experience requirements for issuance of an FAA ATP except for the 250 hours of PIC experience, you are eligible for an ATP with the limitation prescribed by the relevant paragraph of 61.159 as displayed below.

(d) An applicant is issued an airline transport pilot certificate with the limitation, “Holder does not meet the pilot in command aeronautical experience requirements of ICAO,” as prescribed under Article 39 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation, if the applicant does not meet the ICAO requirements contained in Annex 1 “Personnel Licensing” to the Convention on International Civil Aviation, but otherwise meets the aeronautical experience requirements of this section.


I am unable to view the text of ICAO annex 1 at the present time, but presume that your Mexican ATP meets all ICAO requirements other than the FAA 250 PIC requirement. I suggest that to verify your eligibility, you might consider doing either of the following:

Make an appointment to visit an FAA FSDO to review your qualification for an FAA ATP certificate.

Or;

Consult with an FAA designated examiner to review you qualification for an FAA ATP certificate.

Provided that the FAA agrees that you are eligible, then there are only two further steps to be accomplished:

Pass an FAA ATP knowledge test.
Pass the FAA ATP practical (flight) test.

Once the certificate with limitation is issued, the following applies to getting the limitation removed and a new certificate without the limitation issued:

(e) An applicant is entitled to an airline transport pilot certificate without the ICAO limitation specified under paragraph (d) of this section when the applicant presents satisfactory evidence of having met the ICAO requirements under paragraph (d) of this section and otherwise meets the aeronautical experience requirements of this section.

Best of success to you and please post any new information regarding this issue here.

Best regards,

westhawk

[westhawk]

Mohomad:

I think you might find more success in finding an answer to your question by posting it in the instructors and examiners forum.

Best,

westhawk

[david2000]

Thanks a lot for the help westhawk and advise, I already have my atp written done, and letter of verification of my mexican atp. Need to find out about the 250 pic time with the faa since, its my only obstacle right now thanks.

[josmison]

Hi guys

I am planing to do my FAA ATP combined with Boeing 737 NG TR.

For the Written ATP i think i will be ok with the Gleim prep book.

However i am a little concerned about the oral test of the practical test since i am not very familiar with FAA regs.

Any advice or test prep book or software to prepare for that ?

thanks

[Bubair]

http://www.pprune.org/north-america/338562-faa-atp-post-your-questions-here.html#post257417

Has anybody done this procedure recently.

I called today the FLL Fsdo and been told that is not possible to get a SIC type rating on the FAA licence based from a type on a Icao /Jaa licence....

Would really like to know is someone has managed to add the SIC type recently...thanks.

[fly5N]

I have an FAA Cpl and have done the FAA ATP written.i also have sic endorsement on my FAA.My company is sending me for recurrence.Is it possible for me to take my FAA ATP check ride based on the the recurrence I am going to do.I got the FAA written after my initial type rating but it had to be sic cos I didn't have my written at that time.Why I am asking is because my company is only paying for my recurrence so I want to know if I have to part with money to do additional training.
During the initial however I did the full training.Thanks

[rick1128]

You can do the ATP during recurrent. You will have to let the training provider know that you will do so. So you will do a recurrent/upgrade instead of just a recurrent. Depending on the training provider you may or may not have to do an extra day. The notice is to allow the provider to assign the properly authorized instructors/evaluators to your training events. It sounds a little strange that the training provider would not do a full type rating because you didn't have the ATP written. I have seen private pilots with full type ratings. Could it be a requirements of your employer?

[babisiliop]

I hold a valid JAA ATPL with a current B737 300-900 type rating endorsement as PIC.
If I have correctly read the FAR's,I just need an FAA ATP written exam to pass(No practical test for the ATP due to that my JAA ATPL is valid) and for the B737 300-900 rating,I just need a sim check-ride with a designated FAA examiner or a TCE(Training center evaluator).
I fulfill all the experience requirements for the check-ride,as far as PIC time,cross-country,night flight,I/R etc.
All the previously mentioned process will be done after the Authentication
of my License checked by FAA.
What about my expired ratings?Can they be endorsed in the FAA ATP as
expired ones? Do I have to ask FSDO to endorse my Level 5 English Proficient into the FAA ATP as well?
Any opinion from somebody who knows the FAR's will be most appreciated

[fly5N]

Thanks Rick1128'
I did the full training but they only endorsed sic on it because it was my first type rating to be endorsed which was also strange to me.meanwhile I have other ratings on my other Icao license. This happened at cae Dubai

[chimbu warrior]

Well I am not the expert, but am fairly certain you will need a checkride for your ATP. It is not just a case of passing the written and then completing the paperwork.

See below

Section 61.157: Flight proficiency.
requirements of this section for the issuance of an airline transport pilot certificate and/or the appropriate aircraft rating:

(i) A proficiency check under 121.441 of this chapter.

(ii) Both a competency check under 135.293(a)(2) and 135.293(b) of this chapter and pilot-in-command instrument proficiency check under 135.297 of this chapter.

(iii) Both a competency check under 91.1065 of this chapter and a pilot-in-command instrument proficiency check under 91.1069 of this chapter.

(2) The checks specified in paragraph (f)(1) of this section must be conducted by one of the following:

(i) An FAA Aviation Safety Inspector.

(ii) An Aircrew Program Designee who is authorized to perform proficiency and/or competency checks for the air carrier whose approved training program has been satisfactorily completed by the pilot applicant.

(iii) A Training Center Evaluator with appropriate certification authority who is also authorized to perform the portions of the competency and/or proficiency checks required by paragraph (f)(1) of this section for the air carrier whose approved training program has been satisfactorily completed by the pilot applicant.

It is the same with your type rating/s. As far as I know, you cannot just take a checkride for the type rating; you must provide proof of completion of an FAA-approved course (there are abbreviated courses available at some of the larger TRTO's).

As I say, I am no expert, but this has been my understanding.

[MarkerInbound]

Babisiliop,

There are two kinds of FAA certificates you can get. Under 61.75 you can get a FAA PVT cert with any types on your foreign license limited to VFR just by submitting paperwork. Any limitations on your foreign license apply to the FAA "based on" certificate. For example, German glider pilots are required to have a medical so a FAA 61.75 glider certificate would not be valid if the holder did not have a current German medical even though there is no requirement for FAA glider pilots to hold a medical.

To get any level cert above the PVT you have to get a "stand alone" certificate. A person may obtain a U.S. pilot certificate without relying on his/her foreign pilot license by accomplishing the required training, instructor endorsements, aeronautical experience, passing the appropriate knowledge test, and passing the appropriate practical test as required by the pilot certification requirements contained in part 61. Holding a JAA ATP allows you to skip getting a PVT which is normally required to get a Commercial and skip the COMM which is normally required to get an ATP.

To add a type to your ATP you'll need a Fed, a TCE can only give checks to pilots who complete the training centers training program. The training you did overseas for the type should count but you'll need the training records and who ever completed your training will have to sign the 8710 form, your application for the ATP.

There is no level 5 in FAA land, you are either English proficient or not. And if you're not you can't get the FAA certificate.

[rick1128]

5N, what CAE makes sense, however, the fact you didn't have an ATP at the time made no difference. Under the FAA structure, to get a full unrestricted type, you have to already have a jt type rating on your certificate, or have 500 hours SIC in type, or 1000 hours SIC in a similar aircraft, or do a actual check ride in the aircraft. If you don't, you can be issued a restricted type rating that requires you to get 25 hours of IOE within a certain period of time, I believe it is 6 months) then go to the FAA with proof and they remove the restriction.

Babisiliop, as Marker stated, you will have to take a checkride. It can be done by a DPE. Some TCE's are DPE's also.

[MarkerInbound]

I got bored, there are more DPEs with B-17 on their letter than B-737. There are 2 737 DPEs in the country which is twice the number with a Twin Beech authorization. How times have changed.

[zk850]

Good Day fella's.

I am looking to do a FAA ATP as a conversion on either my NZ CAA CPL / CASA CPL / or DGCA CPL.

I meet all the requirement's below...

>> Current FAA Medical Certificate
>> Minimum Age 23 to Hold an ATP Rating
>> FAA Commercial Instrument Certificate based on Foreign Certificate
>> accompanied by an FAA Letter of Certificate Verification
>> Instrument Current & Proficient
>> Flight Time per FAR 61.159 Requirements:
>> 1,500 Hours Total Time:
>> 500 Hours Cross Country Time
>> 100 Hours Night Time
>> 75 Hours Instrument Time of Actual or Simulated Instrument Time:
>> # 50 Hours Must be in an Airplane
>> + 250 Hours PIC Airplane
>> Thorough Knowledge of Material in the ATP Piper Seminole Training Supplement
>> (Provided to you before arriving for your training program.

Except for the 100 hr night requirement..

Can someone please tell me is it possibly to do a FAA ATP with a night restriction on it and have it removed once you meet this requirement?

Many thanks - ZK

[raysalmon]

The short answer to your question is no, you have to meet all the requirements in order to have the certificate issued.

[quest13601]

I am an ex mil pilot INDIAN have a DGCA ALTP valid till apr 13, IR on HS125 exp in aug12 , I am PMU as per DGCA (INDIAN regulator ), spoke to FAA AME at MUMBAI , he said could forward docs to FAA and see if I am eligible for class 1.

Am I eligible for issue FAA ALTP if I do comp test , oral , sim ?

[MarkerInbound]

quest,

As the holder of a foreign ATP, in order to get a FAA ATP you have to hold a FAA medical, pass the knowledge (written) test and pass the checkride. Because you hold an Indian HS125 type and ask about an oral and sim, I'm guessing you want a HS125 type on your FAA ATP. FAR 61.157(b) gives guidance on type ratings at the ATP level and says you need training records and an instructor's sign off to take the type ride. So you will need to go through some training program before you take the ATP checkride if you want to do it in a HS125 sim.

[mauntown08]

Hi everyone. I have a question to which I think I have the answer but I would clarification that I am correct if possible please.

I have a Jaa cpl, multi and IR with 2500 hours TT.
I am looking to get a stand alone Faa ATP and A320 type rating.
My understanding is that I am required to get an Faa medical, and sit the ATP written exam.
I then intend to do an A320 type rating course and combine the flight test with my ATP flight test.
The only hour requirement that I am currently short on is night time, but I hope by the time I intend to do my type rating course, next year, I should have 75 hours, supplemented by around 100 t/o and landings through my current job, (thus fulfilling the requirement) otherwise I will go the week before and hire a 172 and get the rest.

Am I correct in what I am thinking??

Thanks in advance for your answers

MT

[MarkerInbound]

MT,

All of the above is correct. There are two additional steps you will need to complete before you start training. First, the FAA will have to verify your licenses with your CAA. The FAA says it can take 45-90 days to complete this verification but I've heard it normally can be done in a month. Secondly our friends at the TSA will have to do a background check on you. Since you are getting an A320 type rating you will be training at a FAR Part 142 school. All the 142 schools I know see this all the time and will be able to walk you through the steps required.

[mauntown08]

Hi markerinbound

Thanks very much for the very speedy reply!

If you can I have one or two other things I need to confirm. When I do the ATP theory, must I have already got my licence valided by the FAA, or is there anything else I must present in order to sit the test? (In JAA land I had to sit a course with a recognised school but as far as I can understand in FAA land I can do it all self study and just turn up to the exam)

Secondly if I am to do my ATP flight test on the same flight as my A320 type rating, this is a multi crew aircraft so does that mean I have to do some single crew work in the test?

Thanks again for your help

MT

[MarkerInbound]

I believe the results of the license verification only have to be completed by the time of the checkride.

One thing that will come up is if you do the ATP ride in an A320 it will be limited to A320s only. You will not do steep turns and stalls during an A320 ride so the FAA thinks you haven't done a complete ATP ride. You would have to do another ATP ride in a non fly by wire plane to have the restriction removed.

[mauntown08]

Ok, thanks. My intention is to move to China and convert my ATP and rating in order to fly an A320, so having it restricted to this aircraft, as far as I am aware should not be a problem.

[Chiao]

Hello Sir
I am a FO of A330 in Taiwan with ATP multi engine land,like to put the PIC on my ATP,and have few questions like to confirm..

1.What is unrestricted PIC certificate?

2.What if I like to take A320 on my ATP,what movement should I take?

I appreciate..

[MarkerInbound]

I have not heard the term "PIC certificate" before and there is is not a separate certificate for PICs given by the FAA. The FAA does require an ATP to be PIC of a large aircraft in airline operations. Some ATP type ratings are issued with restrictions. The most common is to limit circling approaches to "VFR ONLY." Most US airlines do not perform circling approaches so they do not training for them. So the type ratings issued to most airline pilots in the US in the last ten or fifteen years have a restriction limiting circling approaches to "VFR ONLY." To remove the restriction they must have training on circling approaches and perform a circling approach on a checkride.

To add an A320 type rating to your ATP you would have to go to a training center operating under part 142 of the FAA regulations that does A320 training. Most 142 schools issue unrestricted types because they include circling approaches in their training.

[upspeed]

Hi there,

Has anyone lately gone through the process of adding a SIC type done abroad into their FAA ATP license?

If yes, then I'd appreciate some insights on a few questions:

1. Is it enough that the last PC was done within the preceding 12 months?
2. Does the FAA require any min. number of hours in the actual acft? If yes, then what kind of recency are they requiring?
3. On the 8710 Form, is the section "Instructor's Recommendations" the only column to be filled by your airline's official?
4. What if your airline doesn't exist anymore? Would a signature (on the 8710) and original training records from the actual initial training provider be enough?
5. What if you are not able to get anyone to sign the 8710?

Thanks,

Upspeed.

[La Coneja]

Hi Chiao,

In order to obtain a full FAA ATP + A330 endorsement without restriction you need to undertake the course on the left hand seat and perform circling app. very easy simulator. For all guys with ICAO Licenses i humbly recommend to get the FAA ATP without restrictions, even if you are usually flying as SIC in your countries. Most of the worldwide operators specially in Asia and Middle East request "clean" licenses.

I did a very short type based on the A320, was very easy. Contact Pan Am Academy. Highly recommended, fast and professionals.

Hope it helps.:ok:

[Vpilot53]

Hey guys

Myself and a friend are looking at going to the USA later this year to do our FAA ATP written and check ride. We would appreciate any advice on which places would be the best value for money and also which places are trustworthy. We would prefer the west coast but we are not limited to that.

Thanks in Advance

[atpcliff]

A note that many foreign pilots may not be aware of:

On 3 Aug 2013, all -121 (Delta, Alaska, American Eagle, SkyWest, Miami Air, Pace, etc. etc.) airline pilots will need an ATP to fly the plane.

Specifically, ALL pilots, both the Captain and the First Officer will need full U.S. ATP licenses to fly any -121 airplane. This law had about a 5 year time delay, so there is no grandfathering. If you are a -121 First Officer, without an ATP, you will not be flying after 2 Aug 2013, for your airline, anymore.

Also, the U.S. does not have a PIC ATP and an SIC ATP, like most of the rest of the world does. The U.S. also does not have a "Frozen ATPL". You will need the full ATP, that currently requires a minimum of 1500 hours total time, plus a bunch of other requirements, before you can set foot in the right seat of any -121 U.S. airline.

Currently the -121 First Officer can fly with just a Commercial License and an Instrument Rating. Only the Captain currently requires the ATP.

[mrclumsy]

Hey everyone ,
Sorry if this subject has already been covered extensively . I am an Australian cpl holder looking at getting a single engine faa atp ( cause its cheaper than multi) and then convert it to a casa atpl .
There are plenty of posts here regarding muti engine atp and atpflightschool seems to be recommended by everyone. But they do not do single engine atp and searching through google I was only able to find two schools who did single engine atp course . Any recommendation or suggestions would be helpful .

Regards

[Tinstaafl]

Pretty much any school can do it. As could any stand alone instructor. Or even none if you can find an aircraft to rent. You don't *require* an instructor recommendation to sit the test if you hold an ICAO CPL or ATPL but are unlikely to pass without some training & familiarity with the USA way of doing things.

Make sure your hours meet the FAR min. experience requirements. Be careful about what may counts as x-country time for the ATP.

Buy or download a copy of the FAR/AIM & get familiar with the contents. There are some significant differences. US uses TERPS, not PANS-OPS for procedure design so some things are different eg circling areas, time the inbound of a holding pattern then adjust outbound timing to make the inbound time correct.

Buy or download a copy of the ATP Practical Test Standard. Also Jepp, ASA et. al. have guides to passing the oral portion of the checkride.

[mrclumsy]

Thanks for the reply mate ,
Yea my plan is to do a few lessons 7-10 hrs before I do the checkride. I do meet all the requirements as mentioned by FAA .
Looks like a lot of study is required in the next couple of months for this . :ugh:
I looked up atpflightschool they offer 10 hrs in twin duel plus test for around 4500$ . They don't do single engine .
I think deciding between single engine atp or twin would be the next step .

Once again thanks for the reply do appreciate it .

Regards

[Tinstaafl]

Something I just thought of: Although any school or instructor can train someone for an ATP, you mightl have to do it with a school that can take care of the foreign student visa carry-on.

You will have to go through the TSA insecurity bull!!!!.

[mrclumsy]

Tinstaafl. Sent you a private msg :ok:

[zondaracer]

The advantage to doing an ATP (for your buddy) is that you only have to take 1 written exam and 1 flight test (although a rather long flight test).

CPL+IR would require two written exams and two flight tests.

[Tinstaafl]

Mr Clumsy asked me this: "...Not sure if you flown in Australia or held a casa lic but would you know of there will be any issues with converting a single engine atp to full Australian atpl .
Also I hold a dash 8 endorsement can I do a check flight on a dash 8 sim and count as a atp flight check ?
I know there are hundreds of schools around any particular you would recommend ?"

I generally don't respond via PM or others can miss out on information - and sharing information is one of the most useful aspects of PPRuNe. So...here's what I think:

My background: I have an Oz ATPL which I used to convert to an FAA ATP-MEL. A couple of years later I got a UK ATPL and after that added FAA ATP-SEL/SES to my FAA ATP-MEL.

Avoid the large schools - they tend to be more expensive. Find a smaller school that is approved for foreign training and is willing to work with you. Don't go anywhere that requires you to pay all up front.

There shouldn't be an issue converting an FAA ATP-SEL to an Oz ATPL. Or didn't used to be. Under the new regs coming in I think it will be 'like for like' so if Oz goes for a SEL / MEL distinction then that's likely to affect what Oz ATPL you'll be able to get.

You can do an FAA ATP checkride in an appropriate level simulator at the same time that you do an FAA type rating. Not sure if any sim. schools would let you use their sim for a quick in & out ATP checkride. Anyway, you can do the FAA ATP check in pretty much any aeroplane. I did my original FAA one in a BE76 Duchess, and my combined SEL/SES in a C180 amphibian.

[hairspray]

Hi all,
I have an FAA ATP issued in 2002, i have'nt flown on it since 2004. When does the actual ATP expire ? I have also lost the actual certificate during a move and need to get a new one is this easily done ?

Thanks for your answers in advance.

Cheers

[MarkerInbound]

Your ATP never expires however the paper certificate you were issued in 2002 is no longer valid. In 2005 the FAA started issuing plastic cards and sometime in 2010 you were no longer authorized to fly using the paper certificate. You can go online Airmen Certification - Airmen On-Line Services (http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/airmen_certification/airmen_services/)
and for 2 dollars the FAA will issue you a plastic certificate.

[rick1128]

Be sure to have the english proficient endorsement added as well.

[MarkerInbound]

Since it is a requirement to be able to read, speak and understand the English language to hold a FAA pilot (or flight engineer) certificate, all pilot and F/E certificates are issued with the ENGLISH PROFICIENT limitation.

[hairspray]

Thanks for the info. guys, very helpful.

Cheers HS

[atila_101]

Hello everyone,

Does any of you know if there is any FSDO outside of the US, lets say Korea or Japan. Im thinking of starting my license conversion.

For that i need first a "validation and verification of a foreign license" which must be done by an FSDO, at the moment I fly in Singapore and there is no FSDO in here and since Im not planning any trip soon to the US I will not be able to pick up that paper myself.

Is there anyway to go around that or give a different office?

regards.

[MarkerInbound]

At present there are no international FAA offices that handle pilot issues. Your closest office would be Honolulu.

[custardpsc]

Atila - there is a way to do part of what you require outside of the USA, but it is very limited. Actually any designated FAA pilot examiner with a 'foreign pilot' designation can do some types of foreign licence conversion or verification . There are some around in foreign countries but the only one I am actually aware of is in the UK and from memory he charges $450 for foreign licence verification / 61.75 issue

Not sure what you are converting to what but the short and easy answer is - sorry but it sounds like you need to go to the USA. You can get the verification letter done before you leave by fax, then book a FSDO appointment once you have it. You will need to nominate a fsdo to receive the copy of the letter, although if you have to change fsdo it can be refaxed

[B200Drvr]

Reason why lots of schools don't do SE ATP is the lack of training I.F. rated complex single engine aeroplanes. You need a VP, retrac with flaps that is I.F. certified for a SEL ATP test.

[MarkerInbound]

You don't need a complex airplane for the SEL ATP. You've already shown you can handle a complex airplane during the commercial checkride. You can fly the SEL ATP ride in a J-3 if it has the boxes to shoot three diiferent types of approaches. Most CE-172s fit the bill. Certainly no shortage of them.

I think the reason few puppy mill schools do the SEL ATP is "what's the use?" There's no reg requiring a SEL ATP. I did mine because the 24 months on my written has coming up and it was cheaper (and easier) than a MEL ride.

[bigduke6]

Federal Aviation Administration - Designee Locator (http://av-info.faa.gov/DesigneeSearch.asp)

I think all ATP examiners can do SE. But they are restricted to specific ME types, which are listed for them. As previously stated, fixed gear was fine (well, 20 years ago anyway), just need IFR equip.

Find a school in an area that you want to do it at, and have them ask one of the examiners they recommend or contact the examiner yourself. Most have probably never done a SE, but should be willing to give it a try.

[Tinstaafl]

Something to consider: If you do the test in an amphibian and do landings & splashes in the test you can gain both SEL & SES from the one flight test. You'll have to do the water training of course, but it's a way to have a bit of fun & get two qualifications out of it. If you apply for it, Oz CASA will add a floatplane &/or floating hull endorsement (depending on what you flew in the USA) based on the FAA SES.

I did my ATP-SEL/SES in a C180 amphib based at Flagler County Airport in Florida. The bloke's name is Trip Wacker. I think he has an amphib Maule and an ambhib Beaver now . Really good fun. Bear in mind that mine was an add-on to my ATP-MEL so the ground questioning wasn't as involved as an initial issue.

[mrclumsy]

So I rang casa (three times over past two weeks) asking info regarding converting single engine ATP to casa atpl , everytime the reply I get is they are not sure if it is possible to convert FAA single engine to casa atpl and they don't think it's ever been done before !!
Might as well be safe and do a twin engine ATP I guess :ugh:

[Tinstaafl]

Nothing in the regs requires a multi endorsement to get an Oz ATPL. Dunno why they can't work out the effects of their own rules.

Oh, wait...

[Vpilot53]

Any Aussies reading this that have been to the USA to get the FAA ATP i would love to hear about the process and recomended Schools pm me Cheers

[Vpilot53]

Can anyone recomend a cheap place to do you ATP in california Cheers

[Tinstaafl]

I did mine years ago, before the idiotic TSA insecurity :mad:came into effect however...

* Check your logbook against the FAR requirements for the ATP. Make sure you check the definitions for the required flight times eg cross country.
* Jump through the :mad: stupid TSA crap. This means you'll need to go to a SEVIS approved school ie one that can take foreign students.
* As well as get CASA confirmation of your licence
* Do a Class 3 medical. Class 3 is for private ops & adequate for a flight test ('checkride' in USA language). You would need a Class 2 or Class 1 medical for charter or airline work, respectively.
* Pass the single, multi choice ATP theory exam. You can self study from a number of available publications. Gleim, ASA, Jeppessen & King publish stuff for the exam. The exam is :mad: easy! I found the most difficult part was remembering vis. & alternate requirements in statute miles & fractions. And the variety of approach light systems!
* Do the checkride**. You don't need an instructor recommendation to sit the initial ATP flight test but if you fail you'll need to do remedial training & have a recommendation. I *strongly* recommend you do a bit of training before your 1st test. They do things differently here. Procedures & practices are based on US 'TERPS', not ICAO. Sort of similar but with traps...


**Like Oz, the US checkride involves application level questions about the licence/certificate. Make sure you know your stuff. Don't pass the questions, don't get to fly.

Buy (or download from the FAA) a Practical Test Standard (PTS). It gives chapter & verse about the requirements of the checkride.

Be aware that US licences are segregated by level, category & class.
Level -= ATP, Commercial & Private.
Category = fixed wing, rotary wing, glider, balloon.
Class (for fixed wing) = Single Engine Land (SEL), Single Engine Sea (SES), Multi Engine Land (MEL), & Multi Engine Sea (MES)

A flight test in one class of aircraft will only give a licence for that class of aircraft. You would have to do another test (at whatever licence level) to add another class. For example, you could do a commercial test in a multi engine land & an ATP test in a single engine sea and would be limited to commercial privileges in the MEL in spite of holding an ATP for a SES - and not be permitted to fly a SEL or MES.

[K1000]

I currently hold a valid ICAO CPL license with A318/319/320/321 and A330 rating. I'm interested in getting a FAA ATP. My total flying time is 3800 hours as SIC and I'm currently flying in an airline.

I already have my FAA verification letter and I tried scheduling my ATP course in ALL ATPS in Fort Lauderdale, unfortunately they won't allow me to take the course because I don't fulfill the requires hours for PIC time, I currently have the 100 solo flight time.

As reading FAR 61.159:

(c) A commercial pilot may credit the following second-in-command flight time or flight-engineer flight time toward the 1,500 hours of total time as a pilot required by paragraph (a) of this section:

(1) Second-in-command time, provided the time is acquired in an airplane—

(i) Required to have more than one pilot flight crewmember by the airplane’s flight manual, type certificate, or the regulations under which the flight is being conducted;

(ii) Engaged in operations under subpart K of part 91, part 121, or part 135 of this chapter for which a second in command is required; or

(iii) That is required by the operating rules of this chapter to have more than one pilot flight crewmember.

My question is if I can convert the flight hours I have as SIC of A318/319/320/321 and A330 to complete the extra 150 hours I need for PIC time in order to fulfill my requirements.

I tried explaining ALL ATPs about the regulation but they told me that they don't do such conversion, I'm confused because maybe I'm misinterpretating the regulation.

I would appreciate anybody who can help with this problem or maybe point me out to a Flight School in Miami who doesn't have a problem converting my hours if it can be done.

[zondaracer]

You are misinterpreting the rules. You need 250 hours of PIC. Your SIC counts towards the 1500 total time, but does not count towards the 250 PIC requirement unless you were acting as PIC and logged it as such...

(3)
Sec. 61.159 Aeronautical experience: Airplane Category rating.

(a) A person who is applying for an airline transport pilot certificate with an airplane category and class rating must have at least 1,500 hours of total time as a pilot that includes at least:

(1) 500 hours of cross-country flight time.
(2) 100 hours of night flight time.
(3) 75 hours of instrument flight time, in actual or simulated instrument conditions:
(i) An applicant may not receive credit for more than a total of 25 hours of simulated instrument time in a flight simulator or flight training device.
(ii) A maximum of 50 hours of training in a flight simulator or flight training device may be credited toward the instrument flight time requirements of paragraph (a)(3) if the training was accomplished in a course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142.
(4) 250 hours of flight time in an airplane as a pilot in command, or as second in command performing the duties and functions of a pilot in command while under the supervision of a pilot in command or any combination thereof, which includes at least:
(i) 100 hours of cross-country flight time ; and
(ii) 25 hours of night flight time.
(5) Not more than 100 hours of the total aeronautical experience requirements of paragraph (a) of this section may be obtained in a flight simulator or flight training device that represents an airplane, provided this aeronautical experience was obtained in an approved course conducted by a training center certificated under part 142.

(b) A person who has performed at least 20 night takeoffs and landings to a full stop may substitute each additional night takeoff and landing to a full stop for 1 hour of night flight time to satisfy the requirement of paragraph (a) however, not more than 25 hours of night flight time may be credited in this manner.

[K1000]

Thank you zondaracer,

So I'm completely obligated to have 250 PiC time. Another question, how does the rule of "second in command performing the duties and functions of a pilot in command while under the supervision of a pilot in command" work?

Do these hours have to be logged different? Cause everytime I'm PF on Airbus I'm under the supervision of Pilot in command.

Thanks

[MarkerInbound]

Yes, it's different. It has to be part of a training program. It's in 61.51 -

(1) A sport, recreational, private, commercial, or airline transport pilot may log pilot in command flight time for flights—

(iv) When the pilot performs the duties of pilot in command while under the supervision of a qualified pilot in command provided—

(A) The pilot performing the duties of pilot in command holds a commercial or airline transport pilot certificate and aircraft rating that is appropriate to the category and class of aircraft being flown, if a class rating is appropriate;

(B) The pilot performing the duties of pilot in command is undergoing an approved pilot in command training program that includes ground and flight training on the following areas of operation—

(1) Preflight preparation;

(2) Preflight procedures;

(3) Takeoff and departure;

(4) In-flight maneuvers;

(5) Instrument procedures;

(6) Landings and approaches to landings;

(7) Normal and abnormal procedures;

(8) Emergency procedures; and

(9) Postflight procedures;

(C) The supervising pilot in command holds—

(1) A commercial pilot certificate and flight instructor certificate, and aircraft rating that is appropriate to the category, class, and type of aircraft being flown, if a class or type rating is required; or

(2) An airline transport pilot certificate and aircraft rating that is appropriate to the category, class, and type of aircraft being flown, if a class or type rating is required; and

(D) The supervising pilot in command logs the pilot in command training in the pilot’s logbook, certifies the pilot in command training in the pilot’s logbook and attests to that certification with his or her signature, and flight instructor certificate number.

[mmrassi]

So does it mean we can use picus to cover the remaining PIC time for FAA ATPL?
If yes can someone explain how should we log the time in logbook? Does it need an approval letter from airline we fly for?

[MarkerInbound]

You can use PICUS for the 250 hours PIC time as outlined in my above post. It says the pilot logging the PICUS time has to be flying in an approved PIC training program. When the FAA says "approved" it means something the FAA has checked and found to be OK. The Instructor PIC would fill in the PICUS pilot's logbook with the items trained and and a note that it was PIC training and then sign the log entry including their CFI or ATP number.

[mmrassi]

I was in contact with a flight school in US and surprisingly they refused to accept PICUS time, I wonder if it's a FAA regulation so why this school doesn't follow it? That made me concerned a little!

[MarkerInbound]

Was the PICUS time logged as part of a FAA approved upgrade training program? If not it doesn't count.

[mrclumsy]

Hey everyone ,
I have just been issued an temporary US ATP as I just did my flight test. I was told it would take roughly 3-4 weeks to process my application .
The question I have is can I convert this temporary ATP to an CASA ATPL or do I have to wait till my permanent lic is being processed ?
Of course I could ask CASA that but I am not in Australia yet and haven't got an reply to the email I sent them asking the question.

Thanks

[Tinstaafl]

I think you'll have to wait for your permanent licence to be issued. Don't you have to get confirmation from the FAA to CASA that you hold the qualification you're claiming? That confirmation can only happen once they've issued a certificate ie the bit of plastic they'll send you which represents their record of your qualification.

[CatPilot]

Anyone heard about changes to FAA rules? They seem to stop issuing FAA ATPL based on a foreign ATPL (with FAA validation letter). Is that true?

[MarkerInbound]

I'm not sure they ever issued an ATP based on a foreign ATP. They stopped issuing commercial certificates based on a foreign commercial license in 1997.

The only certificate you can get under 61.75 for the last 15 years has been a private.

[Charliedontsurf_83]

Hello,

If an EASA PPL owner will pass his EASA ATPL theory exam, is there any chance to convert the ATPL theory into FAA ATPL theory?
Is it also possible to convert the FAA ATPL theory into ADX and /or FAA dispatcher license?

[flyboyike]

No, the FAA does not recognize non-FAA written test results for the purpose of conversion. You'll have to wait until you get your EASA ATPL itself which you can then convert to the FAA ATPL.

[zondaracer]

Even if you are converting from a foreign ATPL to an FAA ATP, you still have to take the FAA ATP knowledge exam. FAA knowledge tests only are valid for 24 months. If you don't meet the requirements for the ATP and take the practical test within the 24 month window, you have to retake the ATP knowledge test. No sense in trying to get a "frozen" FAA ATP. Also, the FAA ATP exams don't count for the IR and CPL like they do under EASA.

[MarkerInbound]

In FAA land, you can not go straight from the private to the ATP. You must either hold a commercial with an instrument rating and have the flight time requirements for the ATP or hold a foreign ATP. (Yes there are separate rules for military pilots.)

While the ATP and ADX are 95% the same, if you want a Dispatcher certificate you'll have to pass the ADX.

[Low-bypass]

Hello fellow flyers

I hold an ICAO CPL and i wrote my FAA ATP exam 2 days ago in flighsafety paris le bourget,it's been now 2 months since i sent my licence for verification to the FAA and up to now i hadn't received any feedback from them as i confirmed by our aviation authorithy that FAA did ask them and they replied.Anyone to tell me how i can contact them in order to find out ow far they're with my case?A friend of mine had his licence verified in 2 weeks and i'm now seating with 2 months without answer.Any help is much appreciated

[A Squared]

Unfortunately, Low Bypass right now is a bad time. We're in the middle of a shutdown of out federal government. Most federal employees are not working. I wouldn't expect anything to happen until that situation is resolved.

[Low-bypass]

Wow,don't u know how long it will take before this situation is resolved?any FAA's office contact that i can liaise with at least?

[CatPilot]

I waited for my letter about 2,5 months. So just be patient. As far as I remember FAA needs up to 90 days for verification. Don't worry.

[Low-bypass]

Ok thanks guys for your inputs,i guess i won't have any other choice than to wait

[mrclumsy]

Same boat here!
Waiting for my ATP application to be processed :bored:. Been 6 weeks not sure how much longer it will take

[zondaracer]

With the government shutdown your wait will probably be extended :(

[tyndalljet]

Guys,

Is there any hours requirement needed to do an annual check ride? Say i hold an FAA ATP PIC typed on a GLEX but have not been flying for the last 1 year ++, can i be accepted to do the check ride renewal. Thx.

[MarkerInbound]

No, there is no currency requirement for taking a checkride. You may require more training to warm up for the ride than someone who was flying the airplane yesterday but that is between you and the training center.

[Bahama Breeze]

Hi there,

I saw your post from several years ago and figured you were a good person to ask. Currently I'm in Australia with a CPL, and a Multi Engine Command Instrument Rating, and a Dash 8 400 endorsement on my licence.

My plan is to move back to the US with my American wife when I hit 1500 hours to fly over there.

Can you confirm or deny that this will be possible, and what needs to be done?

So far I believe that I have to do:
- an FAA Medical
- ATP written
- ATP checkride (?)

What options do I have in terms of doing the checkride? The majority of my multi IFR time is on the Dash 8 400 but I can't exactly go and rent one for a checkride!

Also, in Australia the 1500 hours must come from "aeronautical experience" whereas in the US I keep seeing "total time". The distinction I'm hoping you can clear up is whether or not copilot time counts fully towards the new FAA ATP 1500 hours, as in Australia copilot time is only 50%, so it's in essence taking me twice as long to reach that goal in the eyes of Australia.

I'm thinking I want to fly to Guam or Hawaii from Australia to get all of this done prior to moving back stateside fully.

Really appreciate any help you can provide.

Regards
BB

[rick1128]

Bahama,

Do you currently hold a FAA certificate? If you do, you will need to do a conversation. And there is a paperwork shuffle you will need to do. Go to the FAA website (FAA: Home (http://www.faa.gov)) and follow the process. Since you have instrument privileges, you will need to take an instrument knowledge exam. I believe there is a specific exam for this, rather than the normal instrument knowledge exam. Then you will then visit a FAA Flight Standards District Office (FSDO) where you will present your documentation and be issued a private pilot certificate with an instrument rating. It will be tied to your national certificate. You will then do you ATP practical test and be issued an FAA ATP without restrictions.

Keep in mind that the ATP standards for the Airplane ATP will change in July 2014. Read FAR 61.155, 61.156, 61.157, and 61.159. All your SIC time does count but you will need some PIC time. If you have done Sim training in the Dash 8 make sure to is properly documented. Much if not all of it should count to meet the new requirements.

[MarkerInbound]

I think Rick meant to say if you don't currently hold a FAA certificate you can do a paper shuffle and get a private certificate without a checkride. You can take either the instrument foreign pilot written or the regular US pilot instrument written and get an instrument rating added without a checkride. And the FAA will put your Dash 8 rating on it.

There's really not much reason to do that unless you fall into one category. If you can show the person who trained you for the Oz Dash 8 rating held a FAA CFI, then when you get a regular FAA ATP, the Dash 8 rating will jump over to it. Otherwise, you may as well just do a regular FAA ATP when you reach 1500 hours.

As Rick says, the requirements for the ATP will change 1 August 14 so be sure you pass your written before then. You will have 24 months from when you pass the written to complete the checkride. Starting in August you will have to complete a ground school with three classroom days and a couple sim sessions just to sit the written.

[Check Airman]

Hello,

61.153 talks about the ATP requirements. Reading the regs, it looks like you may have to get a US commercial single or multi first. Not sure. You must also have an IR. I think you can get the IR without going through the full US training course.

Prior to getting your CPL, you'll need to convert your Australian certificate to a US cert. You'll only get PPL privileges though. Once that is complete, you can go on to seeing that you meet the requirements for the faa CPL and ATP.

All your flight time counts, none of the 50% stuff. If you like, you can post a picture of your logbook and we can have a look so we can tell you how your flight time will count under the faa system.

Lastly, you seem to be a Dash 8 FO. Forget about logging that PICUS stuff while you are acting as SIC. All your time in the right seat is logged as SIC, 61.51(e) notwithstanding.

[A Squared]

What options do I have in terms of doing the checkride? The majority of my multi IFR time is on the Dash 8 400 but I can't exactly go and rent one for a checkride!

There's nothing that would require you to take your ATP checkride in a Dash 8. Take it in whatever is available and economical. Piper Seminoles and Beech Duchesses are common.


Also, in Australia the 1500 hours must come from "aeronautical experience" whereas in the US I keep seeing "total time". The distinction I'm hoping you can clear up is whether or not copilot time counts fully towards the new FAA ATP 1500 hours, as in Australia copilot time is only 50%, so it's in essence taking me twice as long to reach that goal in the eyes of Australia.

Copilot time counts fully, except for those requirements which are specifically PIC experience.


61.159 (c) A commercial pilot may credit the following second-in-command flight time or flight-engineer flight time toward the 1,500 hours of total time as a pilot required by paragraph (a) of this section:

(1) Second-in-command time, provided the time is acquired in an airplane—

(i) Required to have more than one pilot flight crewmember by the airplane's flight manual, type certificate, or the regulations under which the flight is being conducted;

The Dash 8 requires 2 pilots, so you're covered there. This is just to exclude guys trying to use C-172 "copilot" time. So your time in the Dash 8 will count toward:

1500 hours total time
500 hours Cross Country
100 hours Night time
75 hours instrument time.

I would think that by the time you have 1500 hr, most of it flying the Dash 8, you'd have all that covered, with the possible exception of the instrument time.

Your Dash 8 time will not count toward:

250 hours PIC
100 hours Cross Country PIC
25 hours night PIC.

Depending on how you arrived at where you are, you may be lacking those requirements. If so, you need a plan for accomplishing that. Bear in mind that all of those can be logged in a C-152, there's no requirement for them to be multi-time, or even in an airplane, just in an aircraft.


As far as the knowledge test, Normally, at the moment all you need to do is have an instructor's endorsement that you have done a self study course. If you can figure out a way to get this done before August 1, it would save having to go through an ATP program. There are a number of test prep courses available commercially and of course there's always the route of just getting the books and studying. The ATP exam really isn't too difficult. The most challenging for you would probably be the Regulatory questions, weight and balance, or aerodynamics is the same in the US as it is in Australia. At any rate the Test prep courses will give you a sufficient number of sample questions that you'll know what you need to know for the exam.
As others have mentioned, once passed the knowledge test id good for 24 months, so that's something you could do well ahead of time, and is relatively simple and inexpensive (except for the part about getting to a US testing center)


As far as I can tell, the guys who are saying that you need to get a US Commercial certificate with Instrument rating are mistaken. According to this:



§61.153 Eligibility requirements: General.

To be eligible for an airline transport pilot certificate, a person must:

(a),(b),(c) not relevant to question at hand.

(d) Meet at least one of the following requirements:

(1), (2) Not relevant to you.

(3) Holds either a foreign airline transport pilot license with instrument privileges, or a foreign commercial pilot license with an instrument rating, that—

(i) Was issued by a contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation; and

(ii) Contains no geographical limitations.

So, unless I'm missing something else here, it seems like your current Aus CPL and IR is all you need to enable you to take the ATP practical.

I wouldn't worry too much about trying to migrate your Dash 8 endorsement to you USA certificate. If you can turn that into a Dash 8 (SIC Only) type rating without too much effort, great, if not, no big loss. The SIC only type rating is a pretty useless thing, it doesn't confer any real privileges, and it's something that's handed out to anyone who qualifies as SIC at an airline. It was dreamed up a few years back to satisfy certain countries who require the SIC to hold a type rating. The US does not. Even if you were hired by another Dash 8 Operator, it wouldn't save them any time or money. They still have to put you through initial training anyway, and once they do that the SIC only type rating is only a pen stroke away.

Hope this helps.

[MarkerInbound]

And there's no requirement for an instructor's endorsement to take the ATP written. It's one of those you have to read between the lines things. There is a requirement for an instructor's sign off for the rec, private and commercial writtens listed in 61.96, .103 and .123 respectively. However in 61.153, the requirements for the ATP, the FAA left that part out. You don't even need a sign off for the checkride unless you fail the first time or you are getting a type rating. It was explained to me that by the time you get to the ATP level, you should know if you are ready for the written and checkride.

[A Squared]

And there's no requirement for an instructor's endorsement to take the ATP written. It's one of those you have to read between the lines things. There is a requirement for an instructor's sign off for the rec, private and commercial writtens listed in 61.96, .103 and .123 respectively. However in 61.153, the requirements for the ATP, the FAA left that part out. You don't even need a sign off for the checkride unless you fail the first time or you are getting a type rating. It was explained to me that by the time you get to the ATP level, you should know if you are ready for the written and checkride.


Yes, you are correct. I read the requirement for an endorsement in 61.35 as a general requirement, but on second look it actually reads:

(a) An applicant for a knowledge test must have:

(1) Received an endorsement, if required by this part, from an authorized instructor ....


Like you say, it is required explicitly for the other certificates, but not for the ATP.

[Check Airman]

So, unless I'm missing something else here, it seems like your current Aus CPL and IR is all you need to enable you to take the ATP practical.
I stand corrected, thank you.

[Shiner Pilot]

Hi,
I have an FAA ATP, I also have an EASA ATPL with the A320 on it, is there anyway I can put the A320 onto my FAA without doing a course at a school?

Would very much appriciate any advice.

Kind regards

SP

[MarkerInbound]

The short answer is "no." In post #245 above I explained how you can get a 61.75 "based on" private certificate and the type will be carried over "VFR ONLY." If you pass the regular instrument written you will have "US TEST PASSED" on it and will not have VFR restriction. Then if you get a regular commercial or ATP and if you can show the instructor who trained you for the foreign type rating was a FAA authorized instructor the type will transfer over. Since you already hold a FAA ATP you can't go back and get a 61.75 certificate.

While that path to transfer a type is outlined in the FAA guidance, I've never heard of it happening. I really can't see someone who trained overseas being able to reconstruct their training records to show their training was conducted by an FAA instructor. Maybe if a pilot had come to a 142 school here but only got the type on a foreign license then later got the 61.75 and then a regular certificate, they could say all the instructors at the 142 were FAA authorized so give me my type.

[Bahama Breeze]

Thank you to all of your replies.
Very helpful, most appreciated!
I will get the ATP written out of the way before Aug '14, and step-by-step manage the rest.

Happy new year!