You've Got To Be Kidding, Red Rat Ground Return

[Dixondik]

This is really sh!tting me off. Another day, another Qantas scare | NEWS.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/travel/story/0,26058,24142508-5014090,00.html)

While I was at Rex a lot worse than this happened (hydraulic failure etc), luckily they didn't report on any of their incidents!

[virgindriver]

This is really terrible! Surely Quantas must be grounded immediately!

Qantas jet aborts take-off - National - BrisbaneTimes - brisbanetimes.com.au (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/national/qantas-jet-aborts-takeoff/2008/08/07/1217702221980.html)

Just lucky I work for such a fantastic airline where this would never happen...

(sorry. couldn't help myself)

[greenslopes]

Well this time it definetely is the "Thronomister", pity the fools who developed such a feeble system.

[Ka.Boom]

This sort of ridiculous hysterical reporting is going to go on for awhile.
At least until CASA completes its extensive(sic) audit.
Its not worth getting your knickers in a knot.

[JetRacer]

Posted by virgindriver:

This is really terrible! Surely Quantas must be grounded immediately!


No wonder you didn't get into QANTAS!! :E:}:ok:

Sorry, couldn't help myself!

[Cool banana]

No wonder you didn't get into QANTAS!!

Why would you want to work for Qantas, there is better companies that know how to look after their staff better.

[tasdevil.f27]

anyone see the dribble on Today Tonight? No wonder Dixon is getting out, he'd be getting sick of saying how good the airline is every day.Did Ansett ever get this much attention?

[Muff Hunter]

Just announced today that Qantas are cutting some staff from their safety department....

Surely the d!ckheads running this company can see it would be foolish to cut your saftey department at a time when they are headed for a serious incident..

One wonders how long the tail has been wagging the dog at this insipid excuse of a once great airline!!

Aviation in Aus need some serious attention.....where are you CASA, time to act before it's too late..

[Taildragger67]

where are you CASA, time to act before it's too late

Actually my question is, where are the shareholders?

One would've thought that anyone holding a large chunk of shares would be on the dog to Dixo and his little leprechaun trainee, pointing out that while cost-cutting to date has served the bottom line well, the negative press (whether or not justified) is now undoing all that good work, so it might be time to steady the ship, make a big headline about employing a new intake of appies, etc. Even window-dressing stuff would have a big effect.

It would not be that hard to actually make a statement to the effect that the public should expect a very conservative approach from Qantas going forward so if the crew even thinks they hear a thronomister rattling as they taxy to the rwy, they'll get it checked out; that not having it checked would be reckless cowboyship.

That way, if QF830 does return to the terminal, it's not an incident, rather it's purely in line with stated policy. Yes I know that that is actually the case at the moment, but Mr Jones in 26C doesn't - for him, a return is an 'emergency' rather than compliance with a conservative safety policy.

What are QF's media luvvies doing? Doesn't anyone there know how to put spin on anything other than redundancy notices and executive bonus payments?



Is it just me, or has the number of negative stories in the press increased since certain people left the Board last year... ? :hmm:

[Metro man]

BREAKING NEWS

A QANTAS flight attendant spilt a cup of coffee onboard an aircraft today. QF and CASA have promised a full investigation. Several passengers interviewed praised the crews handling of the emergency, following standard procedures paper towels were used to mop up the spillage. The aircraft landed safely.

[Aussie]

Good sense of humour Metro... No doubt that will be the next article in SMH!

[preset]

A QANTAS flight attendant spilt a cup of coffee onboard an aircraft today. QF and CASA have promised a full investigation.


Ever see the movie Fate is the Hunter with Glenn Ford & Rod Taylor ? A cup of coffee led to the aircraft crashing killing all on board. Fortunately Glenn figured it out :D

[boocs]

Seem to remember this sort of thing happening to another airline just before Easter a few years ago.....

b.

[Ultralights]

is it just a case of enough journalists being fed up with excessive and all to common delays? the Pax arnt happy, and the journalists arnt either, but the journo's get their own back by writing as much negative commentary on the airline as possible.

If Qf treated their staff, and Customers they way they should be, and provided a good reliable service, then there wouldn't be so much QF bashing in the media.

[Taildragger67]

Metro Man,

You forgot to mention the pilots grimly wrestling with the controls and just missing the local school, hospital and endangered-species sanctuary as they then safely landed the out-of-control aircraft. And the passengers who were praying in the aisles, including Mrs Chav from Sylvania Waters who "thought we were all going to die - I mean, the hostesses are not supposed to spill the coffee, are they? Of course it made us fear for our lives!". :eek:

[The Blurr]

There's plenty more that the press hasn't gotten hold of. You can only cut so much fat before you get to the meat .. now we're at the bone!:oh:

[Mr. Hat]

there were some strange noises coming from the aircraft i was on the other day and a lady started vomiting shortly after..she feared for her life.

i think it might have been a safety issue...

[arkmark]

Well Said Ultralights and Boocs.

I remember that airline and it wasn't that long ago.



What you all seem to be missing here is the customer perspective.

Airline professionals treat ground returns as normal, and air returns as semi normal, and delays as undesirable but inevitable.

Clients by and large are expected to assume that everything is just fine, sit back and enjoy the delays, which they do until a point where they begin to ask questions.

Now it's Qantas' turn to answer the questions as nearly every flight is delayed and the problem is usually engineering related.

If the public are pointing problems out to the airline and it's management, even where it is pointed out in the most basic manner, maybe it's time to listen rather than be arrogant and tell those damn awful paying customers that that they just are complaining about nothing.....

Time someone was invited to the Qantas board who wasn't just a yes man insider.

Three of of my last four sectors were delayed and during the time that I had the pleasure of waiting I observed a large amount of delays for other flights around me, including announcements at 2 PM in SYD like "Ladies and Gentlemen The Qantas Club wishes to advise that no alternative flight bookings are available to Melbourne before 10:30 PM"

So whatever is making the media is little compared to the reality that Qantas is not doing well at this time

Whenever I travel now these days people ask me jokingly if I am flying Qantas and wish me well.

So people don't make fun of a ground return when it's reported in the media, because it's just the tip of the iceberg showing you how bad the airline that you work for is doing in it's market place.

[bilbert]

QF need to employ a PR spin media bloke like Gibson. Oh sorry, you say he is already?

[rammel]

Heard a whisper that it was the 737 that was so well maintained in Malaysia recently. Also it heard it has been rescheduled into Heavy Maintenance to have the check done again.

[Sunfish]

My family is under strict instructions not to fly Qantas, no exceptions. The last International business class trip I took with them to the States some years ago was a disgrace. Now add engineering cost cutting on top and the mess is complete.

[Mud Skipper]

Please Don't Feed The Fish

[SARMC]

Let us get a few things straight. Aircraft are a very complex piece of equipment with millions of parts.

Most, if not all aircraft fly with some sort of defect. It could be as insignificant as a blown light globe in a passenger's reading light or as significant as partial failure of a tripple redundant system.

In some circumstances defects are allowed to be carried. Depending on the sort of defect, the defect may be carried for a specified number of hours or until the aircraft is at a suitable place of repair. An example of this is an unserviceable navigation/strobe light. A defect to be sure but one that can be carried for a specified time.

Qantas AFAIK comply with the MELs and carriable defects as specified by the manufacturer and relevent regulatory bodies.

I would fly with Qantas every day and twice on Sundays because of the recent "so called" adverse publicity. To me it demostrates that, despite intense (and inaccurate) media scrutiny, Qantas will delay or cancel flights until a non carriable defect is repaired. As a passenger that is exactly what I want to see.

The media are too quick to bandy about words such as "emergency" etc when the incidents are not emergencies at all. This irresponsible reporting unfairly damages Qantas' reputation for the sake of selling more media advertising. It deters people from flying with arguably the safest major airline in the world to the detriment of the company and its employees.

I would suggest that the media have a good look at other mainstream airlines' safety records. Having had access to this sort of information in the past I have no hesitation in saying Qantas has no more, and probably significantly less, problems with their aircraft than other major carriers.

Only a very small amount of Qantas' maintenance is done overseas, and that is overseen by Qantas LAMEs. I can not see how this affects Qantas' maintenance quality. The media seem obsessed with this maintenance situation. For example, despite the media's hysteria, QF30 was not an aircraft that had its last D check or refurbishment done overseas. Not that situation would have made any difference it seems.

I hope the media can start acting responsibly and stop unfairly targeting Qantas before irrepairable damage is done to Qantas' reputation.

Maybe the Olympics will quench the media's feeding frenzy.

Regards to all
Stephen

[HANOI]

The usual "look at me , everybody" , I flew international Business class !!!!.
Over 2,700 posts of mainly boring , repetitive , predictable QF bashing.

Good post SARMC for a bit of balance.

[Mstr Caution]

How the article should have been written (hardly news)


A Qantas Boeing 737 has aborted a takeoff at Melbourne airport after noises were heard comming from the undercarriage.

The pilots followed standard operating procedures and elected to reject the takeoff as a precuationary measure.

The Canberra bound plane returned to the terminal and passengers were transferred to another flight.

A Qantas spokesman says QF850 had problems with it's air conditioning duct unit.

"It was a routine return to the terminal due to an air-conditioning fault," she said.

"Rather than delay passengers further a replacement aircraft was arranged and the flight took off just before 1pm"

The worldwide average for rejected takeoff's is approximately 1 in every 2000 departures. Whilst some takeoff's are rejected for serious events, others like this are of a precautionary nature.

With Qantas operating in excess of 450 flights per day, rejected takeoffs rates are well below world averages.

[Carlos169]

Heard a whisper that it was the 737 that was so well maintained in Malaysia recently. Also it heard it has been rescheduled into Heavy maintenance to have the check done again.

Was there anymore on this particular rumor?

[SARMC]

Hi Mstr Caution,

Ironically, I think you may be a victim of inaccurate reporting.

As far as I am aware, the B737 did not even taxi as far as the RWY THR.

The take off was not aborted/rejected, it was never commenced.

It seems that the noise was heard by some of the pax as the aircraft taxied out, the pax alerted the FAs and the FAs informed the PIC.

It was then, during the taxi phase, that the decision was made to return to a parking bay to have the noise investigated.

A responsible decision made by a responsible disciplined crew who carried the correct actions in the name of safety...media be dammed.

The original media reports, it seems, reported the incident as an aborted take off, later media reports reported the aircraft was still taxiing out to the RWY.

"Aborted take off" is a much more sensational phrase than "taxiing".....never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

I wonder if Australia will ever get accurate journalism or will journalists main concern be to generate sales not write accurate and researched articles. (I know, I hope for too much...an eternal optimist)

Regards
Stephen

[Mstr Caution]

SARMC.

I agree with your sentiments about the media, whether the aircraft got to the taxi stage or takeoff phase I dont know.

My post was to purely highlight the fact that any event can be beat up by the media.

MC:8

[SARMC]

I agree with your sentiments about the media, whether the aircraft got to the taxi stage or takeoff phase I dont know.

My post was to purely highlight the fact that any event can be beat up by the media.


No argument from me, I thought your effort was great, keep up the scepticsm.

Regards
Stephen

[Short_Circuit]

The question is why are there so many engineering delays with Qantas flights THESE DAYS?


Simple answer,


NOT ENOUGH ENGINEERS TO FIX THE "NORMAL AMOUNT OF DEFECTS" THAT HAVE ALWAYS BEEN,
and same IN ANY AIRLINE OPERATING IN AUS OR OVERSEAS.!

Poor pay and the "buggery campaign" has seen to the demise in LAME numbers!

Thanks GD, DC, MH and (a couple of) ops managers.

[woollcott]

I have seen the damage and the work required to fix this A/C and return it to service. To put it mildly, this situation is disgraceful.
I expect the A/C to lose 3+ days in downtime. All due to a supposed cost saving mentality that has actually wasted money.

A few points:

* Someone, somewhere must be held accountable. This incident and several similar incidents has cost QF a major amount of $, not to mention the cost to its reputation.

* The above people responsible ( DC, MB etc ) will not be held to account - Management is simply a "Boys club" that looks after their own.

* The above management will hold QF engineers responsible for not adequately supervising the lay-up in Malaysia.

*Mel heavy is supposedly the southern Hemispheres "Centre of excellence"
It is so good that management has decided to out source its 737s to JH, Malaysia and Forstaff

* Mel heavy has approx 30% less staff than it had a year ago - yet it has more managers.

* I am sick of hearing Company spin. DC - "we are training 1000 apprentices." Rubbish! This is counting 3rd and 4th years. The previous 2 years, they didnt employ any, and this year they only employed a token amount. Even the Apprentice school has been closed down and outsourcedto a local TAFE! (If you need a conspiracy theory, check out who sits on the TAFE board )
Who will be around in Heavy Maint in 10 years time?


* QF will be thankful the Olympics are in full swing - this will take them off the front pages.

* A damning ATSB report will soon be released that, in theory, will put even more heat on QF management. It will be interesting to see the spin
it generates.

* Qantas' engineering reputation will probably never recover.

[carbon]

SARMC:ok::D,great post.

I honestly hope the day of reckoning for the media is before us.....

[QF22]

I have just resigned from MAS Engineering due total frustration with local work practices.
I believe next QF 737 due for C check at Subang next week !
Hangar 6 at KLIA has been nickname 'The Qantas Hangar" rumoured lots of QF 744/767 work coming. Contractors furiously constructing dockings in preparation.
QF are in for a BIG SHOCK ! MAS may be cheaper but every check will overun by weeks and nothin will get fixed !
When will these QF management idiots ever learn? They had one of the best HM facilities in the world H245 and they shut it down ! They have one of the best 737 HM facilities in the world in Melbourne. Lets hope it doesn't suffer the same fate !
The sooner they sack these clowns MH, DC etc . . the better !

[chockchucker]

Not too sure how much more work will me done in Malaysia in the near future. The aircraft involved in the latest incident was indeed VH-TJU, the very same beast that was last outsourced to MAS in May.

Task cards have been pulled from that check for investigation into the aircon duct failure. Apparently, inspection cards for this area were simply signed as "carried out". No MM ref or any additional work carried out listed. Yet, it was obvious on inspection that substantand repairs were carried out to the duct (exactly where it failed) and other leaks (holes) have also been found by the MEL HEAVY crew, that were not repaired in MAS.

Interesting to me that in other press this week, D.COX and another QANTAS spokesperson, said that this incident was both minor and had nothing to do with the work done in MAS. Well, it WAS covered by the check in MAS (Hence the request for the task cards involved) and yes it is a little more than a minor problem with the best ETS for the aircraft now likely to be Monday (Despite COX saying to the press that the aircraft had returned to service later on Thursday.

QF management, to my mind, are just like nappies. They should be changed often, and for the same reason!:ok:


Here's why MEL HEAVY might be around for a little while longer yet...............




Qantas cancels overseas check-ups

Jonathan Dart
August 9, 2008
Advertisement

QANTAS has shelved plans to send two 737 planes to Malaysia for heavy maintenance checks.

The decision was made while the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) investigated the airline over a series of incidents in recent weeks, including the emergency landing of a Melbourne-bound jumbo in Manila when a two-metre by four-metre hole was blown in its fuselage.

The airline faced another maintenance problem yesterday. Flight QF107 was prevented from flying to Los Angeles because a screw needed to be replaced.

The airline's decision to send its 737s to Malaysia for maintenance checks has come under intense scrutiny after the first plane sent there two months ago came back with 95 defects. It was grounded in Melbourne on Thursday because of noise from an air-conditioning fault.

Malaysia Airlines issued a statement yesterday defending its checks and calling Australian reports on defects unsubstantiated.

Two other planes were earmarked for heavy "C" checks - a regular procedure lasting more than a week, in which engineers have to check most of the airplane's parts - in Malaysia.

But the airline's monthly maintenance schedule put out last week showed the planes were rescheduled to be checked at Tullamarine in Melbourne.

As a result, checks on two other planes that were to take place at Tullamarine will now take place at Avalon in Victoria, and two planes that were to be checked at Avalon will be sent to a third party, John Holland Aviation Services, in Tullamarine.

"We don't know why it changed, but it's likely tied to the fact that CASA are yet to finish their investigation [into maintenance procedures]," a source said.

The executive general manager of engineering at Qantas, David Cox, confirmed the maintenance work will now be done in Australia. "We only have overflow heavy maintenance work undertaken overseas," he said. "We explored options for checks on two 737-400 aircraft. Once space became available at our Tullamarine facility, the decision was taken to have the work done there."

A CASA spokesman said the decision was made by the airline and was not the result of an order made by the authority. He confirmed that the airline has regulatory approval to conduct maintenance checks at the Malaysian base but investigations into the aircraft that returned from that facility earlier this year were continuing.

"It's too early to say whether [the aircraft's grounding in Melbourne] was related to the maintenance check in Malaysia or not," the spokesman said.

The senior general manager of Malaysia Airlines, Mohammed Roslan Ismail, defended the checks in a statement yesterday, saying Qantas had 12 personnel attached to its maintenance team.

"All the highlights were rectified, to the satisfaction of the Qantas team, before aircraft delivery to Australia," he said.

"With regards to the 'string of faults' that were reported in the media, [Malaysia Airlines] investigated and established that these were unsubstantiated.

"This is based on the fact that all these aspects were originally checked and found to be free from defect during the maintenance check and test flight, with the concurrence from the Qantas team."

[teresa green]

Just read the letter from David Cox, (The Australian 7/08), he proudly claims that QF has spent millions of dollars on Engineering, and has improved heavy maint. and wait for this: looking forward to working with CASA to find if The mighty Q might have a little problem! Spare me, David Cox, if you read this (and we know you do) every pilot, every engineer will be splitting their sides with laughter as we all know, as you do, that QF and CASA have been sharing the same bed for years. It would appear that this has been detrimental to the company as it has basically done as it pleased, (unlike Ansett and some small companies that they shafted) and now starting to see the consequences. Show the beancounters the door Mr. Cox and go back to what was one of the finest heavy engineering A/C maint. in the world. Before it is to late! Oh, and Sunfish, despite all the problems QF is still one of the safest going around, I flew Business to Europe and back via BKK and SIN, four A/C and a old nitpicker like me, could not fault the service, the state of the A/C pleasant and hard working cabin crew, A/C basically on time. Even the child bride, who is ex TAA/QF cabin boss was suitably impressed (not easy let me tell you)!

[woollcott]

As I said before - Who will be held responsible?

As an afterthought, imagine if the duct had of broken at cruise........
Not an airworthiness issue, but all the ceiling panels would have come crashing down and the pax would have thought the A/C was breaking up.
Imagine the papers then!

Its just lucky the Olympics are in full swing to take QF of the front page.

Oh, and at risk of stating the obvious...........DC you are an idiot........

[ozangel]

This is all very enjoyable.

Qantas is getting the boot up its arse for treating its staff dreadfully.

The media is being seen as sensationalist, on a witch hunt, and biased..

Killing two birds with one stone imho.

[HotDog]

With all due respect to QF LAMEs and their sentimets in regard to outsourced maintenance; let's put this into perspective. The latest hyped up drama by the press about the aircon duct failure on VH-TJU occured some two months after it left the MAS service facility, where I believe around 12 QF LAME inspectors supervise the maintenance schedule and certify the aircraft C of A; after the completion of the particular check has been carried out. Nor the press or the average man in the street is aware of the fact that defects can and do occur at any time of operation. If, as some of the correspondents seem to imply; that the duct leak or rupture happened at a previous site of repair, how do they know the repair was carried out by MAS? I belive VH-TJU has been maintained in Australia previously. The world fleet of passenger aircraft is approximately 15,000 airframes (not counting commuter aircraft with less than 100 seats) and is expected to double in the next twenty years. Qantas fleet size is around 230 at this time, not counting orders. That means that 14,700 aircraft are being maintained by LAMEs other than Qantas trained personnel, happily flying around the world; including in and out of Australia. I myself operated several jet aircraft for 33 years that were maintained overseas, without any major mishaps or maintenance errors. Yes, Australian and QF LAMEs are good but no better than others. I only wish the press would be aware of this fact, I cringe when I read reports in the paper about an aircraft being grounded instead of delayed until a defect is rectified, one that was found on a pre flight check; an action which proves the safety factor in aviation.

Donning my steel helmet and flack jacket.:ok:

[chockchucker]

Question asked by hotdog...........

"If, as some of the correspondents seem to imply; that the duct leak or rupture happened at a previous site of repair, how do they know the repair was carried out by MAS?"


Answer: because we have task cards / additional workcards to say that that is exactly what happened. Shoddy maintenance may get a customer aircraft over the fence but, the paperwork will always catch up with you eventually.


As for the so called 12 engineers sent to oversee the check, only six (two avionic and four mechanical) were actually LAME's. The rest is typically made up of planners and a "Team Leader", from Sydney. Whose main skills seem to be producing excel charts, and avoid making decisions (particulary if they might effect turn time). Yet who also seem intent on burying the tech reps (LAME's) in duties such as "Vetting" task cards. Rather than allowing them to spend as much time as possible on the aircraft overseeing the maintenance being (we hope) carried out. Coupled with the fact that there are over two thousand individual task cards to monitor on such a check (not counting additional or non-routine work cards), it is impossible to expect 100 % supervision. Unless Qantas send more engineers with the aircraft to oversee the work. At which point, you might as well get the work done in-house anyway.


Also, in defence of the sacrificial bunnies that were sent to Malayasia with TJU (No, I'm gladly not one of them.), the engineers at any MRO you go to know you're there to scrutinize them. They will quite cleverly try to bury you in technical enquiries whilst they aquitt other work whilst you're too busy to look at what they're up too. They also put on quite a performance when you ask to look at the stuff they tried to hide behind your back. Only thing that matters to an MRO is turntime. Because if they don't deliver on time, they have to pay. Hence, corners are likely to be cut in order to avoid penalties.


So hotdog, you survived flying aircraft for over 30 years without a major mishap. I'm glad. You say Australian LAME's are no better than overseas LAME's. I don't doubt that there are some great operators out there. Just that we in Australia don't like to aim just for the manufacturers minimum standards but, in fact, like to aim a lot higher than that.


A reputation for which, before the likes of Dixon and Cox came along, made both Qantas (and once upon a time a company called Ansett) the envy of the aviation world. A reputation that sold a lot more tickets than any marketing campaign could ever hope to.:ok:

[HotDog]

Just that we in Australia don't like to aim just for the manufacturers minimum standards but, in fact, like to aim a lot higher than that.


Right on, I had the same philosophy when I was serving Qantas as a Lame in the sixties (I am now 74 years of age). I took a pride in the fact that I never let any flight crew down. That unfortunately changed after I transitioned to flying. My trust in ground support was severly compromised on a few occasions by ground engineers overseas and Qantas. I won't go into details but I can assure you that some of the short comings were expensive and potentially dangerous. In the end, it just shows that we are all human and prone to make omissions and mistakes; and to think that one cannot make a mistake or omit something, is an extremely dangerous attitude.:ok:

[thosecotos]

Hotdog no need for the jacket, you are on the money. Ditto to SARMC, very balanced posts.

QF LAME's tend to have a rather misguided, albeit very high, opinion of their overall abilities compared to others - not just those abroad. Those 737 task cards would have been completely littered with CIR stamps, and (apparently) QF LAME's take use of their signatures pretty seriously so must take some responsibility...assuming they find anything even remotely related anyway. MAS are an easy target for this one, and coming from QF LAME's (many of whom have enjoyed supplementary income and good times whilst moonlighting on annual/long service leave over the years at MAS) the claims are a little 'precious'.

sacrificial bunnies that were sent to Malayasia with TJU
Yes I'm sure they went kicking and screaming :rolleyes:


Short Circuit, vent on the other thread...any more of that rubbish and the moderators will have to merge this with the EBA saga

Sunfish, what the? Your reputation going down hill fast

[chockchucker]

"Yes I'm sure they went kicking and screaming".


I'm sure you're right to a certain extent thosecotos. However, in typical Qantas fashion, how much notice do you think qantas gave these people before being sent to MAS? The answer is about two days. Do you think Qantas sat them down and briefed them on what was expected of them in the role? No way, thrown straight in at the deep end.

Entirely different matter when you are sent over to Boeing as a production inspector for some reason. Then you are made to attend before depature and post arrival briefings on what is expected of you, what to look out for, and what you experienced whilst you were there.


I'm not going to try and take the bullet for the guys that were in Malaysia with TJU. Hopefully, they've learnt from the experience. Once bitten twice shy kind of thing. I wasn't there, but I do believe that if you do accept a tech reps role with an outsourced aircraft then you can expect your name to be associated with that aircraft after it leaves maintenance. Hence, such deployments should not be treated as a "jolly". I have however, been to other facilities that Qantas uses for outsourcing within Australia and even then, I will tell you that you cannot expect to see everything that goes on with the numbers of people you have and the demands being made of you. To my mind, a terrible way to carry out heavy maintenance but, the bean counters love it because they percieve it to be cheap (when in fact, it's been proven to be cheaper in-house anyway!)


However, in the final analysis, I don't think that the MAS engineers should get off the hook scot-free either. After all, they're the people who actually are tasked with carrying out and certifying for the work. In the end, the buck does stop with them.


Unfortunately, I don't see Qantas reversing their outsourcing policies any time soon. Sure, they've cancelled the next two 737-400's to MAS. That's because they're under intense media scrutiny just now (too bad CASA doesn't apply some of the same scrutiny!) but, after the heat dies down, I have no doubt that they'll revert to the same old outsourcing game. :(

[Big Unit]

Thosecotos, whilst you may not like what short cct has to say, he is 100% spot on and not 'rubbish' as you call it.

Sorry for the thread drift.

[woollcott]

The point is, there shouldnt be any outsourcing!!!

HM Melbourne is supposedly the 737 centre of excellence for the Southern Hemispere! The best job, at the best price, with the best support.

Why do they need to outsource?

[satos]

Qantas heavy maintenance in Melbourne Tullamarine has a shortage of Lames/Ames so why are they not advertising for these people which would help keep the work in Melbourne.
I recall the last time they took up staff for these roles was in 2004.
A disgrace for Qantas for not helping to keep the work in Melbourne.

[teresa green]

Well there it is, on the ABC news today. A investigation into the relationship between CASA and QF is to take place. A total load of bulls$#t as we all know, and more waste of money, when all they have to do (CASA) is to go back into QF logs and see what should have been reported and wasn't. CASA stated that the QF staff always imagined that there was cohesion between the two, (and I Quote) "there was never any hard evidence" well I suggest for a start you try some of the accident investigators from BASI especially some of the retired ones, who have nothing to lose, I am sure they will be happy to tell you about the aircraft that had a "incident" or a engine problem, or a airframe problem, or a avionics "incident" they would inventually get the report, and on their arrival in SYD would find the A/C in question was half way to LA, fixed and dusted by the mighty Q."She's Apples." I have a better chance of winning Lotto than anything being found by the investigation in fact I can hear it now "After the investigation was completed no act of collusion was found between CASA and Qantas Airways" well the best thing that will come out of it is that it could well frighten the crap out of them, (no public servant wants to lose their job, they might have to get a job that they actually have to work in) and they might pay a little more attention to QF and not be so sh%t scared of it.

[woollcott]

I know for a fact a certain confidential report into QF maint outsourcing has gone to the ATSB rather than CASA for the simple reason that the people writing the report know that CASA / Qantas have a rather cosy relationship..............

[The lens]

Qantas Airways Boeing B737-400 VH-TJU:

Withdrawn from service April 13, 2012; arrived Victorville, California, USA, April 27, 2012.

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Honourable mention and commendation:

Airline staff, from maintenance engineers on the hangar floor to those working in related support departments out of sight (but not mind): for having succeeded in keeping 'Currawong' at the highest standards of safety, serviceability and presentation during a time in 2008 when such standards were in danger of being seriously compromised, and even eroded.

Well done all!

The collective memory of events of that time is slowly diminishing and will soon be lost. Who will have the courage and ability to act to counter any degradation in safety standards....when these standards will have become the new norm...?

VH-TJU: Remembered by those who were there- and who cared.

Thankyou.

[blueloo]

I flew TJU at least 16 times (not many by all accounts) and she served me well . (And looking at the logbook, a few memorable occasions too! )

[who_cares]

They should send all their aircraft to Air New Zealand for heavy maintenance, 30% cheaper then here. Then if they have any problems, blame the Kiwis and tell the public that the engineers that worked on our aircraft, will more then likely be working on their own aircraft as well.

[training wheels]

They should of sold it to operators in Indonesia ... heck, they're still using 737-200s here for RPT services. 737-400s are considered the pride of the fleet for some operators here LOL!