IFR flight planning and IFPS?

[TotalBeginner]

For those crews who do their own flight planning, what computer programs do you use?

Are there systems that are more likely to generate a route that will be accepted by IFPS than others?

Many thanks! :ok:

[dc9-32]

Yes there are systems that are better than others. May I ask why you need to know and are you looking for such a system OR someone to do the flight planning for you ?

[TotalBeginner]

May I ask why you need to know and are you looking for such a system OR someone to do the flight planning for you ?

I work in an FBO and we sometimes have problems with one of our customers. The crew do their flight planning the night before and then hand in their FPL form in the morning for us to file. It is not uncommon for the FPL to be rejected by IFPS because the crew do most of their planning with just a chart. I was curious to know what systems are in use and how people rate them.

[G-SPOTs Lost]

If you work on at an FBO you can apply for and gain access to the eurocontrol CIA application, here you can check for slots for your customers, confirm that the flight plans are in the system and getting back to your question you can look at standard routes for any number of standard city pairs. these can then be amended to suit your actual route.

Say standard route Gatwick -Athens route could be amended to suit the actual route that you wanted say Biggin Hill - Athens.....

There is also a route proving function here that anybody can use

Flight Plan Assistant - Structured Editor (http://www.cfmu.eurocontrol.int/j_cia_public/cia_public/pages/ifpuv-structured.jsf)

This will allow you to test the route the crew have given you to see if it will be rejected or accepted, if it rejects it will give you the reason why.

You can find information on how to gain access to Eurocontrol here:

EUROCONTROL - Step-by-Step Guide For Accessing the CFMU Applications (http://www.cfmu.eurocontrol.int/cfmu/public/standard_page/services_and_support_service_step_by_step.html)

You will need a reason to access this information as you will be able to see every active flight plan in Europe so there will be security issues.

[His dudeness]

I do know 2 programs fairly well, one is PPS and one is called AviationOffice.
Both allow you to access the "IFPUV" site of eurocontrol, which is the mentioned test site of eurocontrol. AviationOffice gives you a "heads up" whilst planning because it shows restrictions as you click along. However this does not necessarely means that CFMU/IFPS accepts that flightplan (rarely I have had my routes reject even if they where validated by IFPUV)
Bottom line: the system is so bad and complicated that there is no software out there that can handle it completely. Human input often required. Sometimes also CFMU/IFPS changes your plan into an unflyable one. I´d also file rather sooner than later in order to have time to react. (yeah, I´m the latest contender in the subject of the bleeding obvious....)

[CJ Driver]

European flight planning is a nightmare because of non-aligned local restrictions. If you get really stuck you can actually phone Brussels and get them to help you - but even their flight plans can get rejected!

If you are flying in/to/from the UK however, you MUST get the SRD from NATS, which is the Standard Route Document, and lists every likely start/finish point, including the FIR boundaries for entering or leaving the UK. (It's on the AIS web site). Whilst there may be other routes that are accepted by the CFMU computer, you can file them if you like, but you WILL be flying the Standard Route!

My favourite overheard radio exchange:

Pilot: London, this is XXXX, FL360.
London: XXXX, after VESAN route Detling, HALIF.
Pilot: XXXX, HALIF isn't on our flight plan.
London: It is now.

[dc9-32]

Totalbeginner = you have a PM/EMAIL. Thanks :ok:

[Lightheart]

Just did a trip over Sweden, Germany, France and Spain using www.homebriefing.com

Flight plans accepted within mins. direct to your mobile.

[Miles Magister]

Total Beginer,

I use PPS and find it very useful. I believe they do a license agreement for FBOs as I have seen FBOs using it.

The problem I have not found a solution for yet and would welcome advice on, is how to route around the Conditional Routes (CDR1, CDR2 and CDR3) which restrict otherwise normal routes to different heights and directions at different times of the days depending of traffic. I know they are NOTAMed but any top tips welcomed.

MM

[Check 6]

I didn't see this mentioned, but if you insert "will accept route change by IFPS" in the RMKS or similar language, and in most cases your routing will be manually corrected. It is of course always necessary to obtain a printed copy of your approved routing before blasting off.

[His dudeness]

"I didn't see this mentioned, but if you insert "will accept route change by IFPS" in the RMKS or similar language, and in most cases your routing will be manually corrected. It is of course always necessary to obtain a printed copy of your approved routing before blasting off."

True, but they have recently changed their policy. USUALLY you now just get a rejection.

[dc9-32]

It depends who is at the end of the MAN message ! Some will get rejected straight away, others will be looked at by someone helpful and corrected. They may even call you with a suggestion as did one very helpful young lady in BRU TOWERS :rolleyes:

[blue monday]

We use PPS for flight planning and submit the flight plans through home briefing, sometime of they are feeling generous brussels will change a flight plan if the routing is slightly off.