Swiss

[tamie]

I am looking for any information about Swiss.
What about pay scale? Roster? Bases? How much time until upgrade, >10 years?
Do they really stick to Lufthansa?
How is life there (within Swiss Intern Airlines)?
They don't seem to find flight crews. Why?
Thanks for any help!!

[N1 and ITT]

Payscale is at PPJN.com, quite accurate.
Rosters done via PBS and according company FDR/FTLs, which are a bit better than JAR-OPS et alt. No lazy life, though...
Base ZRH (GVA is a sort of base, but all these guys travel back and forth on their own expenses on reduced company tickets to ZRH, a additional stress to one's private life)
Upgrade everything between 8 and 25 years, very much depending on the industry's development.
Lufthansa is the mother and tells what to do and not to, but as long as LX performs as it does (right now), they won't interfere too much. Some sort of protection as well...
Life is fine as long as one knows how to un-stress the rosters and private life is not affected too much by the work. Note that rosters go 6-3-5-3ish (total of 32+/- days off in 3 months), some single days off now and then and changes are frequent these days. Stbys all from 0 to 10 per month.
Lack of crews mainly due to better options (mainly cash wise) in Switzerland, but improved conditions from now on and only option in Switzerland if you want to get on Longhaul at some point. And if the industry is still there in 20 years, LX could be one of the survivers...

Glad to help

[F4F]

LX could be one of the survivers :}
That's a good one for sure, heard that song a few years ago when the 2LC of LX was still SR...

Apart from that N1 and ITT's infos are more or less correct:
- Upgrade time is currently in the 12+ years region
- Lack of crew is due to several factors, amongst others the requirement for German or French language, the bias towards Swiss citizens, retirement at age 57 (= plenty of ex SR/LX pilots working for other outfits past that age), and the great deal of mainly ex Crossair pilots working at Emirates/Etihad/Easy etc. If one considers the fringe benefits (such as fully paid pension (90% of last salary) etc, the salary is very attractive
- PBS is a PIA... satisfaction rates are given, bit very much different from one's own...


live 2 fly 2 live

PS
HISTORY:
- Once upon a time, SR went bankrupt
- Swiss airline was created as the Swiss citizens were robbed of roughly 3 billion CHF taxpayer's money
- A couple of years later, the cash ailing airline Swiss was given away for slightly more than a tenth of that amount to LH
- The so created LH South (or Swiss as still called by the locals) is prospering, thanks to mother LH and the monopolistic situation in the country

[N1 and ITT]

I'm sorry, I was to say: "...LH could be one of the survivors..."

Unless these muppets from chemical city show up again and screw things up as they used to do... (3 billions taxpayer money etc.)

Enjoy life

[Dani]

My friends that started with me and still are there are in their 16th year of service and still wear 3 stripes - and they are not the first on the seniority list for upgrading.

Rest is more or less correct.

Reason for need of more crews is that they are expanding, mainly long haul, after a long phase of reduction after the SR grounding. Ab initios go on Swiss European Avro while if you have experience you might start on the A320 family. But with experience the salary is a bit low.

Dani

[Mister Geezer]

My friends that started with me and still are there are in their 16th year of service and still wear 3 stripes - and they are not the first on the seniority list for upgrading.

You are hard pushed to see a youthful looking Swiss Captain nowadays. Expeically long haul since they are all old guys who were probably ex MD-11 with Swissair etc...

[SierraJuliet]

Hello everyone,

At the moment I do have a job as an airline pilot but maybe wanna apply for Swiss. Can anyone of you tell me what the selection process of Swiss contains? I saw there site, but I like to know what I can expect during those tests/days. Thanx for answers!

[N1 and ITT]

...have a look at Pilotenboard.de (http://tinyurl.com/59knfm)

Info is up-to-date and accurate.

The German should not be the problem, arriiight?

[SierraJuliet]

N1 and ITT, thanx for the information! Very usefull. No German is not the problem...:)

[Flare-Idle]

SJ

Might be worth to check as well
Flightforum.ch - Powered by vBulletin (http://www.flightforum.ch/forum/)
Among a lot of trash published by several high-strung and egocentric individuals you can find some useful information about the pilot selection at SWISS.

Cheers'n good luck !

FI

[SierraJuliet]

Well SW, thanks for the concerns but I think it is not really nice of you to blame the swissair crash due to stick to the SOP's and not thinking "outside the box". It was a little bit more complecated then that.
And maybe you are right but for example, the company who I work now for is also only SOP orientated. Its the problem with a lot of airlines.
And no, I have not a swiss or german nationality and german is not my native language, but have never had problems with swiss people. So will see... Time will tell!

[Dani]

Don't listen to those Swissair-haters. They are mostly former Crossair-Pilots who really got treated very badly in the downturns of Swissair.

Switzerland and its airlines have a long tradition of working together with all kind of nationalities. There are 25% foreigners living within its borders, and everyday there are more. That's why its economy is booming so much at the time (even during the international recession).

Swissair hired foreign pilots long before every other airline did. There are a few shortcomings for the Swiss job (for example pay), but I would give it a try.

Dani

[F4F]

Snidely Whiplash, your comments about the Swiss are one thing, your personal allegations Refer to the late Urs Zimmermann (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRFcA1g_pF0) for further details. towards a deceased colleague plainly disgusting :yuk::yuk::yuk:


As for Dani, just wonder what planet you live on? Mixing economics with the employment of foreigners, etc.

SierraJuliet, if you feel like it, go ahead and apply. As for any assessment, be ready. Talking about SOPs you are right, e.g. those of U2 are far more stringent than those at LX, given the same aircraft.
As for the Swiss, don't worry, the proportion of jerks (to respect the -18s here) is similar to the one in other countries.
Mach's guet :ok:


live 2 fly 2 live

[crewbag]

Ciao Dani!

It is a proud half-Swiss writing, but i listen to criticism.
Sometime it is necessary to accept the truth even if it hurts.
Unfortunately with your post, you have proven SOME of the critics to be so very true.
By writing your biography in the public profile, you prove the typical egocentrism of the Swiss. But, on the other side.., congrats, nice CV!
Further more, if you think that the Swiss economy is still booming you prove that your are unable to think outside the box when it matters. Don't take it personally, but i know how we Swiss think....
By the way, beside the crap that SW wrote about Urs Z., don't tell me that you are still stuck with the old story between LX/SR! Over seven years have passed after the grounding and i maybe, outside the box, there is people that do not fit, or do not understand, the unique Swiss mentality even if they where never employed by Crossair.
Nobody hates Swissair, be honest! You know exactly what they hate...Crossair and non Crossair....:=

Friendly, :ok:

CB

[Mister Geezer]

Switzerland and its airlines have a long tradition of working together with all kind of nationalities. There are 25% foreigners living within its borders, and everyday there are more. That's why its economy is booming so much at the time (even during the international recession).

Are these posters an example of Switzerland wanting to work together with other nationalities?

http://loranablog.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/1.jpg

http://images.theage.com.au/2008/05/30/119306/PM_poster-200x0.jpg

No... didn't think so....

Finally... a colleague of mine (who is not Swiss) had a interview with Swiss and the first question that was asked was:

'So you are not Swiss... so what are you doing here? :rolleyes:

[N1 and ITT]

Mr Geezer: Reading your profile and your nice comments about our fellow countrymen leads to no other conclusion than you must have had a sad encounter with somebody in our country. That must have been the real Big Don of Swiss aviation. Unlucky you...

One thing for your young pair of ears:

Imagine a country half the size of Scotland, 7.6mio pax, 40% of the landscape uninhabitable, 25% foreigners, 2 religious confessions and 4 official languages, no sea shore and no oil nor gas no whatsoever...

And now say that again, about the non-existent swiss tolerance, thoughtfulness and modesty.

Ah, yes, I almost forgot our fellow "Snidely Whiplash": Please leave. I am sorry if conclusive thinking is confusing for you...

A disgusted N1

[Mister Geezer]

When you have the largest and most powerful of all the political parties publishing posters like the pics I posted above, think for a moment as to what image that paints in the minds of people visiting, regardless of how warm the welcome was when they arrived? I find it baffling that you are saying that Swiss people are totally tolerant towards all foreigners when the majority of people in that country voted in the last election for a party that allegedly expressed a desire to halt cultural diversity in addition to wanting to stop foreigners moving to Switzerland to live.

I have had no bad experience personally and I have enjoyed my time in Switzerland and look forward to going back. Anyway we are diverting off the main topic here....

[Gretchenfrage]

Jeezz ... Geezer

Yes, YOU diverted from the subject by publishing these posters. Not surprising you saved them somewhere, you display the same preconceived image of the Swiss as some of them of foreigners. Nice pairing!
By leaving this thread with your thread creap, please take the ultimate aviation-scumbag Snidely Whiplash with you.

Back to the thread:

For all newcomers, be it Swiss or not, the carreer outlook is not really nice at SWISS. They do well at the moment, however downsizing already glooming at the horizon. Entry T&Cs acceptable for young and eager, too low for the already rated. Upgrade on the A320 just below 20 years of service now (!) and looking to stay above 15 years, if no downsizing.
Your choice.

G

[yoland]

Dani you really are a muppet who likes to dwell on the past.Get a life and remember Crossair kept Swiss afloat for a little while longer and remind me again how much Lufty paid to bail this fantastic company out yet again.Enough said.:ugh:

[bjhello]

Snidley Whiplash:
and this words from a Aussie, i dont know!!!!:ugh:


M. Geezer:

show your nationalitie!
then people start talking about your nice nation.

Sorry but we shut not start this kind of diskussion here, i think every country has to carry is on little bags!!

BJ

[Dani]

What wonderful crap was produced by my post!!!

Facts:
1. Swiss economy is still growing above average. Read the newspapers. One big reason is that Switzerland accepted the bilateral agreement with the EU concerning free movements of labors.
2. These two xenophobic posters are a good proof of how open Swiss' society is. The two votings have been turned down by a great majority. The party who started the xenophobic movements has been expelled out of the government (something which didn't happen during the 250+ years of modern history of this country).
3. I don't want to see and hear the extrem right parties in other countries. They are far more extrem than ours. In one of our neighbour countries they are in power, and police looks away when innocent foreigners get lynched...

btw, I'm also a former Crossair pilot, I have been a victim of this story too. That doesn't mean I'm not understanding what was happening and why. Stop being destructive - see your chances - find yourself a home!

Dani

[TOFFAIR]

Just to advise SJ, Swiss offers you little for the requirements they have, compared to other possibilities in the market, try DE e.g., they offer you long haul, shorter time to upgrade and chances are good a window to LH be opened for you soon. Swiss is certainly more advisable for Swiss people, and there are plenty of them flying worldwide, consider a downturn in aviation in any of those place, they might migrate back... Swissair/Crossair is past but will only melt together once mother LH starts dictating what it really wants...
This is my view, and my guess is if you can do it there you can do it better somewherelse! But it doesnt hurt to try, drop out if you find something better...
Dont listen to all those Swissophobiacs, it wont be all great though!
btw, in aviation think more global, local economics might have less effect then global issues like oil price, epidemics, etc...

[Dani]

Latest news from Swiss:
You don't have to pass a German language test anymore. German is no requirement anymore (Avro only).

Dani

[sawaya]

hi guys i have been monitoring this thread with lots of interest,i was in a flying school in switzerland, the chief instructor made it clear to me that i can never get a job in switzerland due to the fact that i am half swedish and half kenyan something along the lines that i don't fit the profile....I love the country though i find that people are very polite....

[Dani]

your chief instructor is an idiot. Try your luck!

[angryblackman]

1) Do you now have any black Pilots at Swiss?
2) Did you have any black Pilots or black Flight Engineer's at Swissair?
3) Were there any black Pilots at Crossair?
4) Are there any black pilots who work in the Federal Air Office in Bern?

[DCS99]

FAO Tamie

You will also notice that the Swiss like an argument.
I've seen long-time Swiss friends arguing like this thread.

But don't worry, it is (usually) all settled later in a friendly manner over a drink.

[Diabolo]

Black pilots are on the swiss black market

[sawaya]

what do mean by that?

[Flare-Idle]

angryblackman

1) yes
2) yes
3) yes
4) don't know

sawaya

Your CFI in your flying school is wrong regarding this issue. Give it a try.
Swiss is a good airline to fly for, no more, no less. It is just an other ordinary airline with its pros and cons.
Excellent training and standards, however bad pay, lot of block and duty hours. In general, great fellow cockpit and cabin crew members, yet you might occasionally still find some old ex Swissair/Crossair "leftovers" struggling with their ancient views of a "good" and "bad" crew member and desperately building their self esteem by flying for a high-cost, low pay flag carrier.

Btw, low-cost and high-pay non-flag carriers might be also worth a try.


Good luck !

FI

[Thin Albert]

Why should they not have black pilots from Swaziland??:hmm: i know that they even have pilots from Aargau....:)

[captain.weird]

Do you have to speak french and deutsch?

[F4F]

Flare-Idle, don't know where you have your infos from, my list would rather look like:
1) Yes, but in the sub airline Swiss Regional
2) No, not at Swissair (well, haven't met everybody in my 20+ years in the outfit...)
3) Yes, now either left or employed by Swiss Regional
4) No

Thin Albert, good one :)


live 2 fly 2 live

[Gretchenfrage]

Guys, don't you smell it?

WIND-UP ALERT!!

Nice try, angryblackdude, but let it go.
At least no one took the bate by the wrong end ...

[Dani]

Well, for a guy from the Americas, it IS an important question, if you employ black guys or not. Because it's a direct indication if you are protecting minorities. We here in the old world do it slightly different, especially in countries without colonial background. I want to emphasize that Swissair in the 60s was the first major that employed foreign pilots on a big scale, mainly Scandinavians and British.

Dani

[DenizD]

Just tell him to find out what the official language of Switzerland is, if he did that first he wouldn't have asked such a dumb question(s). Besides he makes black people look bad, once he gets to Switzerland none of the "brothas" are gonna wanna play with you anyway..haha

[TOFFAIR]

Thin Albert, that was great!

Shows some reality facts, in fact it's impossible to be perfect match for SWISS, either your Bern-Dütsch is too fast spoken, or you don't know the name of the village beside a certain mountain, but Swiss guys are great in finding fellas in HKG, GRU, MBA, BKK, etc... It's not as much about a country, or airline, think of a family, you don't belong to them, but if you go along with them they might adopt you!