ATC Simulator [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

RossMiles

1st October 2000, 19:26

Hi all,

Wow! That ATCC simulator is really something. Thanks for that. Mind you the manual took a fair old while to print and I'm going to have to study those charts for a while if I hope to even stand a chance... For anyone who either works for that great body of upstanding people known as NATS or for those who just wonder what all the Air Traffic Controls and CONSTANTLY moaning about. Get this program!

Ross
[email protected]

niteflite01

2nd October 2000, 00:05

Well I work for NATS here "oop north" and I reckon ATCC is fantastic :)

If you follow the link of the xavius page to the extra sectors site (I think it's called Spongeys site or something) you can get a shed load more sectors, including a UK one :) (Which is London Goles Sector) There is also an egroup called "atcc" that you may like to join.

I reccommend you give Sector 38 a try in ATCC first. It seems to be the easiest one for training and validation. That should get you used to the commands and the slightly strange procedures (strnage to me anyhow)

As for other sims there is one knocking around called TRACON but it's payware, unlike ATCC and quite hard to find. I've tried it and don't reckon it's anywhere nearly as good as the prog you have anyway!

Have fun and for all of my trusted collegues out there reading this - I know I'm sad - please don;t give me stick :)

Have fun anyhow

------------------
"Go around..I say again...go around"

kopbhoy2

2nd October 2000, 20:41

ATCC is brilliant, never fails to scare the living sh**e out of me - I'll stick to flying ;)

Well worth a look, won't tka elong to download or take up any space on the hard drive...and as pointed out it gives those of us who fly 150's and the like an idea as to why sometimes ATC get a bit annoyed with us entering controlled airspace when we shouldn't http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/eek.gif

niteflite01

3rd October 2000, 03:53

That's an excellent point kopbhoy :-)

I've never really thought of the programme as a sort of training tool before but now you come to mention it........

I like the function whereby surrounding sectors are sometimes problematic when it comes to handing off traffic.

I find that feature to be VERY VERY VERY realistic!

Pity they couldn't have also written into the prog stuff like level busts (increasing by the day) and callsign confusion (ditto!). That really would be excellent then and an even more useful tool :-)

Then again - it's good just a good programme to to mess about with when you're bored :-)

------------------
"Go around..I say again...go around"

Lurk R

3rd October 2000, 08:02

I can print off the manual and sector notes for ATCC without any problems - however when I try to print off the chart, I get a tiny diagram about 2 inches by 3 inches and totally unreadable. All possible combinations of sizing and viewing gives me no joy. Has anyone else had similar problems?

Cheers, Lurk

RossMiles

3rd October 2000, 23:49

Lurk,

Try opening the maps in Wordpad. The manual suggests that this helps. Even then it's cut off the right side of my maps so I'm about to try printing them landscape to see if that helps.

To all,

I certainly agree that it was a real eye opener for me as to how an ATCC works. I'll certainly get hold of the UK sector. Does anyone know when version 2 comes out?

Cheers!!!!

Ross
[email protected]

Lurk R

4th October 2000, 02:54

Thanks Ross - like most people, the manual is usually the last thing that gets read!!!

niteflite01

4th October 2000, 03:43

Ummm you asked about version 2 of ATCC. Seems there's some probles there.

Apparently Xavius are having troubles and the release has been put on hold. I know some pals of mine have had problems getting in contact with the company so who knows?

I'm sure someone else will buy the licence of whatever.

Let's face it, if Microsoft can make a train simulator (unbeliveable!!!!!) then surely ATCC must be worth a go?

Keep your eyes peeled anyhow :)

------------------
"Go around..I say again...go around"

bodger

4th October 2000, 14:59

Love to try this atcc but when I start it up and try to log in with N (new employee) my pc just looks at me and goes no further.What am I doing wrong??

Bear Cub

4th October 2000, 17:42

I had two problems with ATCC - but one of them (printing out maps bigger than 4 inches square) MAY have been answered.

Other question though...and I'm sure it's in the manual (but you know how difficult it is to find something when you are searching)...because of the difficulty reading the small printed charts, I have sometimes handed off an aircraft to the wrong sector - the next controller does not accept the aircraft (because it's not his) but I cannot regain control of it to correct the error.

All I get is "declined, aircraft in handoff".

Answers on a postcard?

------------------
Hunting is bad!!
Support the right to arm Bears!!

Ringwayman

5th October 2000, 02:03

Is the "ATC simulation" you're thinking of one that was released for the Spectrum and was created by Mikrogen and entitled "ATC"?

Spent many a long time guiding BA 747s into Plymouth whilst expediting the Dan Air 748s into LHR. Who cares if I got a zero rating!

kopbhoy2

5th October 2000, 12:28

Y'know something folks? In many ways, it's much better than FS200, Fly, etc...

In your average Flight Sim, you line up, take off, flick a few switches and land. In ATCC there's so much going on that it takes a hell of a lot of concentration and a high level of situational awareness.

Any ATCO's care to comment? I'd be interested in what peoples opinions would be...after all, Microsoft market their product as being 'As real as it gets', something I'm sure many of us who fly real aircraft, whether it's a Cessna or a 747 would disagree with.

RossMiles

5th October 2000, 21:28

Hi all,

First off Lurk R how did you manage to control the sector's w/out the manual. I have problems with :) !!!!! I sure hope they get round to a releasing it. Am I right in saying that the pilots use sound clips this time? As for you Bodger I think the manual mentions that problem somewhere. If you e-mail me (see below) so I've got your address I'll send it on. Or if you want to trail through the manual you'll get the same result. Bearcub, Fraid I can't help with the 2nd I'm still getting my bearings.

Ringwayman. I'm not sure. I'm fairly sure it was for the PC. In this version you actually guided planes to take-off and land so it was more of a control tower sim.

Ross
[email protected]

niteflite01

5th October 2000, 21:33

OK - hopefully I might be of some help here ;)

Bodger I think you may need to re-install ATCC sounds like you may have a corrupt installation there. Dunno how powerful your PC is but ATCC is only a small proggy. If re-installing doesn't work try running ATCC is DOS and see if that helps.

The answer given to the maps question is correct - use Wordpad to view the little blighters. If you want to tinker with them I find loading them as an image into Word after a bit of jiggery pokery works for resizing and the like. Might be worth a try.

Bear Cub - hmmmmm - you should be able to press F1 then click on the flashing tag of the aircraft you want back, to retrieve a lost handover. It shoudl then say in your console "handoff accepted" or something like that. You really do need the right maps and for them to be the right size for ATCC otherwise chaos really does take over!

Finally kopbhoy. I'd say that ATCC was much more realistic then say FS98 and I really would say that the software is perhaps as far as you can take a PC based sim that also doubles as a "game" i.e something that can entertain also. Obviously there's alot of stuff missing out of there like VFR traffic requesting a service, level busts, callsign confusion..even the odd emergency would be "nice" if you know what I mean.

I believe the problem would be that if you added all of those elemsnts you may scare off some of the casually interersted people who use and enjoy the software. Not everyone likes to come home from work or whatever and engage their brain to the extent that a fuly featured ATC sim would require. I could be wrong there, but I suppose as with FS98 and the like, there is a fine line between entertainment and something really difficult and not that enjoyable to the casual enthusiast or player.

To stop this waffling I seem to be doing, yes, in my experience as a faithful (???) NATS employee - this is about as real as it gets on the PC - for the time being anyhow.

Very interesting point that kopbhoy :)

Hope this waffle is of some use anyhow!

------------------
"Go around..I say again...go around"

[This message has been edited by niteflite01 (edited 05 October 2000).]

niteflite01

5th October 2000, 22:03

I've just remembered too - there's a game knocking about called "Tower" whcih is really good.

You can download it from http://www.theunderdogs.org/

Try it - it'd about 5ish MB to download but when it's up and running it's basically a Tower sim where you can actually see the little planes as they come and go and taxi at one of the three airports provided.

------------------
"Go around..I say again...go around"

Lurk R

6th October 2000, 04:07

Ross,

I printed off the manual but only looked at the page which had the commands :-) I've always had a big interest in ATC and lots of reading combined with heaps of listening on the scanner has given a good understanding so I didn't bother with the theory sections on separation, co-ordination, etc. Obviously the bit on how to print the charts was in the part I skipped :)

As for other simulations, years ago I bought the early version of Tracon which I really enjoyed. It only came with the sector files for 6 American cities but did give instructions on how to construct your own . Being a resident of Melbourne, I faithfully reproduced the local TMA chart to put together a 50 square nm Melbourne sector file - and also 1 for Sydney as it was more fun handling familiar traffic!

Also borrowed Tower off a friend which is quite good for scenery - uses digitised photographs to give a tower view but the novelty started to wear off after doing many hours in the ORD tower.

Other than that, for real time simulation, I prefer to supply ATC for the SATPAC region of MS FSIM users. Quite a friendly place to fly in a virtual sky!!!

Bear Cub

6th October 2000, 08:01

Niteflight....you've caused me grief!!

I fancied "Tower"...found it, downloaded it (almost 8mb - yawn) but it has now "listed" 6 (six) files in my download folder....called (believe it or not) Tower1, Tower2, Tower3....(guess the rest!!).

File 1 had a "Tower.exe" icon lurking inside so I clicked and it started loading - then asked for "insert disk two"...and I was buggered.

Can you shed any light on how to install Tower? In words of one syllable (why are there three syllables in the word "syllable"?).

------------------
Hunting is bad!!
Support the right to arm Bears!!

kopbhoy2

6th October 2000, 12:15

Cheers niteflight....

FS2000 was recently described by the owner of my flying school as 'like a copy of playboy - looks good but feels nothing like the real thing!' :)

The way I look at it, as a game, is that with the Flight sims there's not a whole lot of concentration involved, with ATCC there is...

niteflite01

6th October 2000, 16:08

Hahahaha Bear - pull up a chair.....

It sounds like you've downloaded the floppy install version of Tower. If you got it from the underdogs site I think it gives you two download options - one a complete version and the other a floppy version.

Dead easy to sort. All you need to do is create a directory in your TEMP folder called....I dunno....Tower or something! Then unzip each one of the six archives into that folder - they all go in the same place - make sure they do.

Then go into the folder and run the programme that may be called tower.exe or may be called setup.exe. If there'sa setup one run that. If not you should be able to then run and iunstall tower in the normal way.

So - to summarise....

1) Create a folder somehwere called Tower
2) Unzip each one of the zip files into the folder
3) Run Setup or Tower from that folder

And Bob's your Uncle as they say ;)

Hope that's of some use - if you need anymore help mail me at

[email protected]

and I'll be only too glad to help :)

------------------
"Go around..I say again...go around"

[This message has been edited by niteflite01 (edited 06 October 2000).]

Bear Cub

7th October 2000, 06:43

Thanks nightflight - I'll try that when I get back on the machine tomorrow...but last night I sat and vectored aeroplanes till 4 in the morning.

I'm beginning to hate that ATC simulator - and I feel a bit cheated, too......after four hours of vectoring through Chicago Sector 75, I got a score of ZERO.

Hey, it was only one lousy middair collission just south west of Badger VOR. Some programmes have no sense of humour.

------------------
Hunting is bad!!
Support the right to arm Bears!!

RossMiles

7th October 2000, 12:57

Hi all,

I don't suppose anyone could send me a save-game they have which is certified to work on each of the original sectors can you? I'm also downloading Tower now so you can expect my two cents worth (or in my case two pence worth) soon...

Ross
[email protected]

niteflite01

7th October 2000, 15:49

ROFL - if only real life were just as simple Ross :)

I'll remember that next validation I have for my job - "Ummm - I'm not going to validate but can Joe Bloggs do it for me!!"

Fantastic :)

P.S. I might have one on the old C Drive somewhere - not usre 'cause I aint played it since I've had my new 'puter - I'll look anyhow

------------------
"Go around..I say again...go around"

notac

8th October 2000, 03:20

Has anyone tried RADARSIM?
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/louisbreda/english.htm

The format looks exellent but I can't download the manual, consequently I am completely lost.

Sheepy

8th October 2000, 09:20

Why not try it online, providing ATC to FS98,2000,Fly and PS1 sim flyers. All realtime
It is a bit more daunting than a simple programme.
The link is www.satuk.org.uk/ (http://www.satuk.org.uk/)

atc_ring

8th October 2000, 12:04

...and for a taste of the latest MMI (man/machine interface) being researched at Eurocontrol, try this great simu for free:
ATC Interactive http://smilecwm.tripod.com/cwm/thinkerg.gif
http://users.skynet.be/atcsim/index.html

------------------
...time danaos et dona ferentes

[This message has been edited by atc_ring (edited 08 October 2000).]

[This message has been edited by atc_ring (edited 08 October 2000).]

RossMiles

8th October 2000, 12:14

Niteflite,

You see. You're getting the hang of it now. No point doing something yourself when someone else will do it. Delegation, it's the most important lesson you'll ever learn.

I'm checking out that ATC Interactive at the moment. I'll post back soon telling you what I though of it. TTFN.

Climb baby, climb!

Ross
[email protected]

niteflite01

8th October 2000, 20:25

Hehehe yeah Ross, guess that's why I'll never be ATC management :)

I've tried the other sims.

The Eurocontrol one is perhaps the most interesting - give you a chance to see what is to become and what already is in place in some areas. I also like it 'cause there are plenty of UK sectors with it, including a LATCC Sector 7 one which is, of course, of local interest to me.

At the moment I believe there is only one UK based sector available for ATCC - the Goles sector one.

Visit:
http://www.users.waitrose.com/~sadunn/atcc.htm

and download a file called spongey5.zip for a whole load of new sectors for it :-)

Hmm might go and chack out that Radar sim one - from what I remember it's got a really tricky command system. Will give it a go anyhow.

By the way - Bear - did you sort "Tower" out? Just wondering!

Cheers all!

P.S. If my watch manager is reading this I really didn't mean it about the management bit ;)

------------------
"Go around..I say again...go around"

carbheat

8th October 2000, 23:02

Downloaded "Tower"- great fun O'Hare at full tilt!Thanks for the Underdogs link:seems a good site for old games.

Bear Cub

9th October 2000, 00:51

Niteflite....getting closer...got all six sections (in zip form) into a folder called C;\mydownoads\tower

Now tell me how to get them to all line up at the correct flight levels....still cannot figure the zip beastie.

niteflite01

9th October 2000, 01:36

LOL Bear :)

OK - unzip all of the zipped files into that very same folder. You want to contents of the zip files in the folder. Then you should be able to click on install or whatever and there you go ;)

I don't know how good you are with Winzip but just in case - what you need to do do is open the zip file, click on the button that says "EXTRACT" select the folder where you ant the stuff to go and click on OK.

I'm probably telling you how to suck eggs :)

Let me know how you get on Bear.

carbheat - glad you liked the site - it is an excellent source of oldish games and some new ones too.

I like Life and Death - playing a doctor and surgeon - cool. If only it had real nurses http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

------------------
"Go around..I say again...go around"

Bear Cub

9th October 2000, 06:18

Niteflite (to Venus..remember that record? Boney M - yuk)..anyway...egg sucking lesson worked a treat.

I now have numerous little files worming around the hard drive - all called "tower1.unzip"...but...it works. (Yeeeaaaahhhhhh).

SNAG IS (there's always a snag), every time somebody 'speaks' on the r/t, I get a box saying (ding) "Say Sentence - Error allocating global memory block of size *****"

The error MESSAGE is always the same - the "memory block of size" is always different...in the example I copied down it was "572383249" - but I don't know what units that is in.

Next query...I saw on television (some years ago) that the ATCC training centre in Bournemouth had a computer programme that gave a vertical view of the runway patterns, taxiways and all stands at LGW - aircraft would call for taxi (inbound and out) and you had to do your stuff to prevent insurance claims.

OK, computer gurus...where do I get a copy of that...or similar?

------------------
Hunting is bad!!
Support the right to arm Bears!!

niteflite01

10th October 2000, 01:06

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Believe me Bear you DO NOT want a copy of that little programme :)

It is a silly programme called "SIMTAC" and is basically a "procedural" simulator for VCR controllers. It requires an input from the aircraft point of view - that's where people called ACPO's come in. They basically do the RT bit for the aircraft and actually move them by drawing horrid little lines all over the shop using a mouse.

It is, therefore, totally useless for the home - unless you like talking to yourself that is ;)

Don't even go there is basically my message there. The prog isn't available on the net or indeed over the counter as it is a specialist training tool - as people who are regularly "Seaton Tower" (name of the fictitious airfield used by the College) will tell you. Good for work - very very very bad for home!

On the further problem with Tower - hmmmmm - not sure on this one. Which soundcard do you have installed in your PC? Come to think of it - what are the overall specs of your PC?
Perhaps someone who knows a little about the mechanics of a soundcard could help here ;)

------------------
"Go around..I say again...go around"

Bear Cub

10th October 2000, 01:30

OK...guess I don't want that programme....know of anything similar? I'd like it as a guide to R/T and aerodrome operations for student pilots.
Anyway...my spec....Pentium 3, 750MHz, 128MB Ram, 30GB hard drive, 32MB video card, 32bit Creative Labs Sound Card.

That should run World War 3 - never mind a Tower programme.

<<edit: is to ask "Why is page 2 in widescreen?">>

------------------
Hunting is bad!!
Support the right to arm Bears!!

[This message has been edited by Bear Cub (edited 10 October 2000).]

PCav8or

10th October 2000, 17:11

Talking about flt sims & the real thing!!! Well, check out PS1 (a B747-400 precision sim)at http://aerowinx.com/. Now that "IS" the real thing.

------------------
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Blue Skies & Happy Landings

RossMiles

10th October 2000, 22:35

Hi all,

Alright then here's another challenge for y'all. Can anyone find me an FMC simulator that is dependant of a simulator so I can see how one works. (Or one for FS '98) either way it's got to be free! If you can help me with my electronics project, to create a sort of independant flight aid then please e-mail me at the address below. An avionics type person would be handy.

Ross
[email protected]

lame

11th October 2000, 14:23

I had a simulation years ago on an old C64, called Kennedy Approach, it was VERY BASIC, but much fun to use. Would anyone know of a way of obtaining this for a PC ?

Regards,

"lame"

jjj

11th October 2000, 18:30

lame

There is a quite a few C64 Emulators available for the PC.

First you will need an emulator. I recommend CCS64
http://www.computerbrains.com

or you may like VICE
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dsladic/vice/vice.html

There are many sites where there you can get C64 games. Try this link for your Kennedy Approach game. It give several sites where you can get it.
http://www.c64.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/mepk/cfs.cgi?input=*kennedy*&sensitive=no&searchpath=no&maxhits=200&language=english

Cheers

niteflite01

12th October 2000, 01:04

You see what I mean about SIMTAC!

My post on it has even broken Capt Pprune's finest http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

The devil liveth and he be called SIMTAC :)

------------------
"Go around..I say again...go around"

lame

14th October 2000, 00:40

jjj,

Thank you.

Regards,

lame

CloudySkies

15th October 2000, 18:29

I had almost forgotten about ATC Sim, must download and reminisce.

Bear Cub

19th October 2000, 07:14

HEY!!! PARTY!!!

I just qualified to work Chicago Sector 82.

Any prizes?..simulated ones, will do.

Where should I train next?

------------------
Hunting is bad!!
Support the right to arm Bears!!

Bear Cub

19th October 2000, 08:16

Bugger.

Decertified - had a middair at 330.

Snag is, this game is so adictive that I keep going until I get an error - lasted an hour and a quarter once....doing really well...then buggered it up before I could come away.

This ever happen for real? Yeah, right.

------------------
Hunting is bad!!
Support the right to arm Bears!!

niteflite01

20th October 2000, 02:18

Hahahaha - fancy a job with NATS Bear?

------------------
"Go around..I say again...go around"

Bear Cub

21st October 2000, 08:34

Ha...got my sector back....niteflite..is that job at LATCC (obviously not Swanwick)?

------------------
Hunting is bad!!
Support the right to arm Bears!!

niteflite01

22nd October 2000, 01:21

LOL - obviously not Swanwick - goes without saying ;)

Mind you if you can sort out the errors with the "Tower" installation maybe you could try ironing out the ones with our stuff at Swanwick!!!!!! I wish someone would ;)

------------------
"Go around..I say again...go around"

[This message has been edited by niteflite01 (edited 21 October 2000).]

Bear Cub

22nd October 2000, 08:40

Niteflite...Swanwick...has anybody tried the old chestnut.....turn it off and turn it back on again?

(Haven't sussed "Tower" yet - though did well on Sector 82 tonight).

------------------
Hunting is bad!!
Support the right to arm Bears!!

Eric

24th October 2000, 16:46

Bear,
The technical term is "power recycle", as said in all seriousness by a University techie!

Bear Cub

25th October 2000, 05:41

Ooof.

------------------
Hunting is bad!!
Support the right to arm Bears!!

niteflite01

27th October 2000, 00:55

Bear - I'm hoping they turn the whole place off and leave it off!

I don't want to move "daaan saff mate" ;) I'm more then happy up here where I can play ATCC in the comfort of my own Northern computer room :)

------------------
"Go around..I say again...go around"

Bear Cub

27th October 2000, 07:52

Nite...how come you don't want to become a soft southern shandy drinking puff then?

You have some sort of addiction to Hollands pies, eh?

You at MCR subcentre?

Fancy dropping me an e-mail - so I can write back?

We may have common threads to discuss...but "private Like".

------------------
Hunting is bad!!
Support the right to arm Bears!!

777AV8R

27th October 2000, 20:18

Ok gang, here is some information for you regarding XAVIUS ATC. I found that in order to increase the size of the Sector maps, I first cut it from word, then, I moved it over to WordPad. Then, I moved it to MS PhotoDraw, if you have the MS suite. There, in PhotoDraw, you can easily drag the sector map to the size that you want. I used a high resolution on my printer to get nice track lines from the air routes. I didn't try to move the map from Word directly to PhotDraw, it might work. Hope it helps.

777AV8R

27th October 2000, 22:10

TRACON II players! Guess what I found under a mountain of old computer stuff? The disks for TRACON II. This game was an excellent simulation from what I can remember, complete with voice and it was quite easy to issue clearances with the system.

Now here is the problem. The program is as old as the hills, almost before radar..just joking. The program is loaded on two old 5 1/4 floppies. The problem is now for you people to help out....how do we transfer the data to a 1.44 meg. floppy, will the data be compatable.

If we could figure out how to do a transfer, I wouldn't have any problem sending you a copy via e-mail attachment, or find a website where one could install it.

If you have any suggestions, send a posting and lets see where we go from here. If I could trust someone, I wouldn't even hesitate to give up the disks provided the program could be loaded someplace and all the users here, who want to partake, could download it for their use.

Any suggestions?

Bear Cub

28th October 2000, 07:50

Guys...specially 777...didn't realise there was still a print problem with the maps for the ATC thingie.

I right click on the icon for the map...click "Open with Word Pad"...click "File", "Print....", tell it to go do its stuff in landscape format.

Every one has come out a treat.(Don't you just love Bears...great things - nothing to do with the topic...just wanted to share that with you).

------------------
Hunting is bad!!
Support the right to arm Bears!!