What happened to the EK FEB roster??

[Silky]

Am I the only one in TOP bid this month and all I got were back to back turns along with min rest and absolutely nothing that was bid for??
:mad:
Cant really believe that I'm alone in this one!!:ugh:

[nolimitholdem]

New policy apparently, maximum six days off in a row to be given in a calendar month. Hence many bids for 10 days off in a row were not rostered. Should come out as an official bulletin soon.

Any prospective joiners please note this. In an airline where arguably the vast majority have no desire to be in Dubai, you will be even more restricted in getting to your home country on days off. Kind of a bizarre move when you're trying to attract expat pilots...?

[ruserious]

Rumour has it they only ran the adopt program on the top 2 bid groups as they did not have time to do the whole lot. Another fine Kwality effort by our support & admin team :ugh:

[canadansk]

I am in second top bid group and was given night turnarounds and only 1 day off in the requested block.:*

[Mack Tuck]

Firstly, someone must have the good flights; everyone can't have a !!!! roster. Secondly, I have found that (in general) when I have analysed my roster compared to what I bid for I find the error in my own bidding. Not always, but often. Don't forget it is a mathematical optimiser; add up your total points and try and figure out why you have what you have. Top bid can be tricky to bid for.
Finally I like to think of it not as a roster per se, but as a suggestion of what they would like you to do.

[Bird On]

Noticed how one member of the CRS Help Team managed to get two/2 of the better EK406 flights when his bid group seniority would suggest that this would not normally be possible as a "mere" line pilot.......in fact one of the flights was even blocked on the pre-assigned flights list.

These days with so few such trips being available to line pilots unless one is in the top bid group its virtually impossible to get one unless something has got horribly screwed up in the CRS roster build.

Of course sitting in with your buddies in Roster Planning may also have its advantages :).

Smell a rat......prob not.... just cynical and paranoid :}.

Good Luck in March :{.

[BYMONEK]

Have you considered the possibility that as he is part of the CRS team and volunteers his time, the company may have offered him a 'flight of his choice' each month? Happens with recruiting and some other dept's where people volunteer their time.

[BigGeordie]

Or, as part of the CRS team, he probably bids better than most of us?

[Flying Spag Monster]

Trainers were asked to bid for FEB back in December with their JAN bid, so what ever has effected this month's roster was known about back then...

[Bypass ratio]

I am in 2nd top bid group for February and I got exactly what I asked for. I have always used the automatic system as opposed to the manual/points system?? Mind you I keep it fairly simple with about 7 bids. I even received my requested number of days off in a row! Seems to be working perfectly for me.......but for how long?

[EGGW]

I pretty much got what i wanted days off wise, top bid. Lets not forget this is a 29 day month.
If the company is seriously gonna restrict days off in a row, they will see a flood of resignations. This would be crass stupidity http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/aktion/action-smiley-060.gif

EGGW

[145qrh]

And when has "crass stupidity" ever got in the way of a new EK Policy??

:}:}

[runkelj]

Been here 9 years. And some time ago i actually thought I mastered the bidding system. And now this. It has not been only February, it has been going on since December. So, since the commuting was the only thing that kept me here, that is it for me. I am out. I wonder how many more?

[Craic Ore]

Bid window for feb on a 29 day month was something like 85-92 hours. On a 31 day month that would translate into approx 90-98 hours. Not exactly reasonable for longhaul with massive timezone crossing.

What I am trying to say is they were probably forced into messing with the rosters to make it work and cover the flying. Give a call or email one of the CRS help guys and they can explain "global solution" to you. Essentially it means the computer ignores your bid in the bottom two or three months. It just isn't capable and therefore a bunch of stuff must be thrown out for it to finish it's task. That "stuff" is your bid. This might explain why you're getting those crap months now during the bottom of your cycle. If you're a Boeing guy, well come the Airbus hell!

CO

[Bird On]

Is this a job for....Rumour Buster. :hmm:

[barkingboris]

If on the 2 top bid months our requests for a reasonable block of days off are thrown out and thus restrict ANY commutes ,my resignation will follow a few months after my upcoming upgrade course is done and i have the bare bones amount of time to go elsewhere.
EK are skating on thin ice with hot blades as it is with many issues but this will be the last straw.
May they rot in hell and may Dubai implode.:\:\:\

[nolimitholdem]

schismatic's explanation corresponds so perfectly with the information I was given I am inclined to believe it's the truth. I really have no idea as to why the objection to strings of days off - if you're rostered "X" number of hours, then you're flying "X" hours...if you fly those hours in 20 days or 25 or 30...who cares? The introduction of flight pay would seem to prove that they're quite familiar with the concept of "paid by the hour". Perhaps they are a bit shorter of pilots than they are letting on? Do you think?! Well welcome to the backside of the power curve then guys...because alienating the pilots who haven't left probably isn't the wisest move.

Strings of days off are the only thing that allow me to remain here, because they allow me to NOT be here...as much. Drop it below ten as a max, and I'm gone...since ten is barely enough to make a N. American trip home worthwhile. Forget the declining dollar and inflation and driving and filth and noise and on and on...this would be not the last straw, but the last anvil thrown on this camels back.

Standing by...

[SOPS]

If they dont like "Pilots having periods without work", how will they like "Having Work periods without Pilots"?.....:cool:

[ekwhistleblower]

I really have no idea as to why the objection to strings of days off

Why should you, we can't!!!:{ I wonder how many of those affected will really vote with their feet? A good question to ask at interview though you might hear some porky pies.

[410]

but someone went over it manually and put in arbitary flights to break up large blocks of days off. This was particular to the top bid group.If my (top bid group) roster is anything to go by, this has to be true. Visitors coming, so bid for the time they'd be here off... do I need to say more about what I'll be doing while they're here? The flight I got features absolutely nowhere in my preferences.

I suspect the applications to VOz may have doubled after the the February rosters came out.

[schismatic]

If anyone needs verification speak to the CRS boys. They are pi**ed because management are trying to bounce the issue back onto them.

A sad day indeed. For all those who plan around getting away for periods, this is going to have serious implications and there will be constant struggling to get the blocks off or find out if someone did a little manual intervention.

The intention is clear now we watch to see what manoevring takes place to make this so.

[Mack Tuck]

Whats more; there is nothing in open time. So have they put all the !!!! on those NOT on reserve? Will the reservees do nothing apart from cover sickness? Perhaps bidding for reserve (as happens in other airlines) will become a preference???

[uspilot757]

Obviously EK management doesn't care. I wish it was the first time this happens. I still wonder why I even waste my time every month and bother to bid....:ugh:

[7x7]

Easy fixed, dc. According to a few cabin crew I've spoken to, bid 500 points to "AVOID" Brisbane and Sydney, and you'll almost certainly get one every month.

[critical winge]

I haven't been through the whole thread, but Feb is becoming a top time out of peak leave for 2nd bid leave. The kids are on half term and the weather is pretty good and its a keen time to go ski-ing, hence the heavy load on the roster. Just a thought.

[Fart Master]

If they start f***ing around with my days off then I'm outta here. The rosters over the last 4 months have been s**t, well pissed off:mad::ugh:

[troff]

I was on reserve in Jan and got ONE flight! Too bad the wx has been !!!!e, but WTF! Not bad pay for one T/O and LDG! Of course I was on the phone daily begging Crew Sked for a flight... not!
Feb I got everything I wanted: 4 flights, reasonable departure times, nothing ending in "bad", no night turns and no 9 day :mad:-overs!
How do you guys bid?
T

[theidler]

Like your style troff, but I'm always suspicious of 'happy' stories, so could you confirm that in your month of reserve it wasn't in fact you who took ....... 20+ sick days?

[TangoUniform]

Troff may be right. Two months ago, I too on reserve......three flights and called and called. A total of 5 days on flight duty. Nothing in the open time. "The straw that broke the camel's back?"

[Kamelchaser]

On the Boeing fleet, they have been offering extra leave for Feb, there are no open flights, and it seems no-one is really working too many hours.

One would presume there are enough pilots (at least 777 Capts?) for the time timing.

Why would anyone (ie managers) in their right mind not take the opportunity to keep their employees on-side when they have the opportunity, so that when the workload increases, perhaps that goodwill would flow on through?

What a mindless management mentality to kick your staff when the times are good! What a bunch of twits.:ugh:

[Flyer34]

So is one side of the fleet fairing out any better than the other with the schedule?? Just want to know since I have an interview in Feb and would like to know which would be the better side to join.

Cheers,
Flyer

[Backwater]

Flyer 34. Who told you that you have a choice? Some surprises on the horizon for you friend.

What a mindless management mentality to kick your staff when the times are good! What a bunch of twits A bunch?How about just one twit, surrounded by a bunch of yes-men.

I live in fear of a global recession. I can almost hear the HR knives being sharpened in anticipation.

[GMDS]

It's the well nurtured and revered culture around here. Human resources is purely a logistical term for the locals. Therefore they only hire management with the same poor human and social skills. They were easy to find because they were generally not respected in the civilized world, despite their professional talent.
Listening to my former collegues however, it seems that this despicable breed is more and more welcomed back there.
Around here it's Orwells Animal House in real time satyre, TC JH and AAB giving almost perfect Napoleons. Which one of them will get the Oscar?

[wizard1]

I confirmed today that there was manual intervvention in Feb's roster. It is the managements intent to limit days off in a row to max 6. This is stated fact. They intend to alter the rules within crs to make this so but until then will manually intervene.

Once again with no consultation, no prior warning, and total disregard for the pilots welfare the middle management have imposed a detrimental change to our working conditions because ...... they can. A terrible state of affairs particularly for those whose families are no longer in Dubai. If I was in that situation this would be the proverbial final straw.

[Scooter Rassmussin]

Indeed a sad thing, the day off strings were something to look fwd to in the top bids .
There hasnt been any commuters stuck at home and missed their flight back for work ,cause it would only take one incident to affect the entire system, as per kindergarten rules.
No talk of bonus or pay rise i think we are in for more shocks this year...
I also think the company wants you to have your families in Dubai you get a big villa , use it . spend all your money in Dubai dont send any home.
I get a feeling we might lose flight pay for time in the bunk...wait and see.

[Sheikh Your Bootie]

F**k 'em, i am getting the CV dusted off, that was one of the prime reasons for joining, good days off.

Adios EK.

SyB :zzz:

[vbrules]

******* *****

[Fart Master]

vb, that'll be clucking bunts then :E:ok:

[vbrules]

I was thinking more along the lines of sucking mints (as our kiwi brothers would say). But close enough :)

[emratty]

Is this for real there is nothing on the portal about it. BOHICA:mad:

[LazyPilotEK]

What would be wrong with informing the pilots about the new "policy," so we're all in the loop? Why should something like this, if it absolutely must be instigated by some petty, small-minded individual, then be kept a BIG SECRET??? It speaks volumes of the opinion of the pilots by management that they do not even bother to let the news out in advance of the action. It also says something of of a certain lack of integrity that they obviously know it will be unpopular and therefore slip in the new "policy" duing the SNEAKY cover of darkness and without anyone taking credit for it. Gutless and without balls.

[Big06]

Why can anybody be claiming 'fatigue' issues, when many are able to 'commute'...

[L1011]

Oh dear this looks really bad doesn't it. If W1 is right and 6 days off is the new black, then anyone commuting farther than Europe or Africa are scr3w3d.:{

Is this a cunning plan taking into account the possible global recession and the full use of factoring?

Or is it Ol' Blue reacting after a long night of being wound up in the tent?

Either way we have to fight it guys. Even if it does not affect your life personally, even though writing into the FM probably won't change anything, we have to draw a line in the sand somewhere. The proverbial frog in hot water comes to mind again.

[wizard1]

Sorry not to reply earlier. Without clearly identifying myself to the obviously reading management I can confirm that the information in my previous post is correct for sure. Sad indeed and another terrible misjudgement by in my opinion AAR

[Kamelchaser]

Interesting how this manual intervention policy has affected the rosters of those in the top bid group this month. A number of guys bid for ULR flights and a decent string of days off. CRS gave them what they wanted (that's what it was designed for). It allocated the hours within the bracket, which worked out just slightly into productivity.

Then, our friend came along, and inserted a couple of extra flights to ensure those strings were broken. Result; top bid guys doing 90-95 hrs (purely to screw up the days off), and others in lower bid groups with rosters around 70-75hrs.

What an example of biting off your nose to spite your face. Spend money out of the productivity budget just to ensure that nobody can commute, or indeed simply have a reasonable rest between ULR flying)

This also shows management's immaturity in operating a safe ULR operation. They want ULR flying with minimum rest, but refuse to accept that once someone has done their share of hours, that they should then have time off to recover.

During the dark days of the Airbus "factoring", ULR flights were mixed with night turnarounds, leading eventually to a large increase in fatigue related illnesses. I thought the company had learnt their lesson that this was counter-productive in the long or even medium term, but it seems management here has a very short memory.

Best thing we could do right now is help those who have manual insertions..take their turnaround flights if you're able, and let them have their days off strings. That will negate this ridiculous "unofficial" policy, at least for this month, and force them to publish the policy if they want to stop swaps that create a long string. I for one am happy to help out this month if I can, because I'm not just not interested in doing ULR-night turn-ULR patterns when it's my turn to bid for a decent roster. )Ironically I'm bottom bid this month and have an easy, mid 70's roster..amazing)

Anybody have any other suggestions how we can put up some passive resistance to this short of bulls**t?

[319/320]

If indeed this is a new policy, could it be posted on the yahoo groups email list, just for those who may not read this forum?

[Fart Master]

Quite simple really..............Just press 2:ok:

[Gillegan]

During the dark days of the Airbus "factoring", ULR flights were mixed with night turnarounds, leading eventually to a large increase in fatigue related illnesses. I thought the company had learnt their lesson that this was counter-productive in the long or even medium term, but it seems management here has a very short memory.

Management has a short memory because 5 years ago it was different managers. Anyone who has been here a while has seen the cycle a few times now. The company goes and does something stupid like this, it all falls to pieces, the Flight Ops Managers are sacked and then the cycle starts again. It's also interesting that they always seem to screw with things in the last half of the fiscal year. Managers cut their budgets, freeze capital spending and undertake a frantic dash to impress their bosses for the coming handout of bonuses.

Of course I could be wrong. Everything is just fine and we just don't know how good we have it. It will all be better when us whingers just leave.

(Hey, I made the century mark. Do I qualify for a Golden 411 award?)

[Kamelchaser]

True FM, but doesn't solve the manual insertion problem for the guys who have strings of days off and want to go away somewhere. Not a good idea to press 2 from overseas. Otherwise we'll get to the point of having our passports checked like Cabin Services do with the cabin crew.

Better to organise a swap, and get your days off anyway. Until AAR is forced to admit and announce his over the top policy officially, there should be no valid reason for rostering to deny a swap.

[White Sausage]

Did my bid as every month (standing bid), second from top in February. You guess it? 10 days off in a row (as requested), then nicely interrupted by a f:mad:g turnaround. Last month (third from top) it worked, the month before it worked. So the higher you go, the sh..tier your roster? WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE GUYS??? They wanna retain and lure pilots...not like that, my friends! Sc:mad:w you! These strings were my only reason for swapping ships, now I am in the same hell again as on the Bus before! So there it is: Swapping airline soon. Sc:mad:w you again!

[Wordsworth]

Like most guys I have been following this thread with disbelief and like most guys I am digusted and disappointed by this new policy that Ek mis-managment seem to have implemented.

Has anybody e-mailed/talked to managment about this? Might be a silly question but as im not in Dubai at the mo was wondering if its officially official??

Over and out

[disconnected]

As usual the moaning on Pprune but I doubt anyone has put in any formal complaint which would require an explanation.

Simply put, someone in the top bid group who was disadvantaged should take it through whatever formal grievance channels the company has and demand explanation. This will elicit a formal reply and from this reply the matter can be escallated again. I.e. If there has been a policy change it should be promulgated and if the system is being deliberately corrupted for no good reason, the culprit should be brought forward for explanation.

Anyone who has been here for an appreciable amount of time should know that writing emails, making phone calls etc. is a complete waste of time. The matter will be passed around until everyone gets bored or something else distracts them. Standard management technique.

Pprune is a great forum for raising awareness and sharing viewpoints but as a method for challenging the system it is largely ineffective. Hence the pilots generally have a good moan and then get steamrolled.

[THRCLB]

i still dont believe this until its officially published ....or it just for FEB month (i know it sad for you guys) ....i only enjoy my rosters only in the two top months which is twice a year (10 months to be accurate) and the rest i spend 1 minute putting my standing bid ....shame on you :=:*

[disconnected]

I heard today that something "official" had been put out limiting days off in a row to 6. Nothing on the crew portal though.

Does anyone know anything about it? Was it released in some other forum?

[Kapitanleutnant]

This is NOT good news to those of us who are deciding to join in the near future.

Although you cannot use EK as a commuting type job, it seems ridiculous that guys on their top bid groups are being penalized for..... absolutely nothing!

Not good...

Kapitanleutnant

[montencee]

Bottom line is if EK has an idea that the flight crew are happy about something, such as strings of days off, then there must be a cost-saving in getting rid of it, even if there isn't.

This philosophy came to a head with TCK who couldn't sleep if he thought that crew were getting away with something such as, for example, being paid whilst on leave.

AAR would say "Happy pilots are lazy pilots".

I would say "Happy pilots are productive pilots".

EK might be wise to appreciate this.

[AA717driver]

Kapitan--Just another pothole in the winding road that is our career. ;) TC

[LazyPilotEK]

TCK was a miserable git who couldn't stand the thought of the pilots being happy or content. Shame he got the ar$e. What did the 'C' stand for again?

[oz in dxb]

All of this talk on pprune won't solve anything.

Reading about the problems that we have on other threads, rosters, ERP, inflight rest on IAH, pay and so on will not be resolved if we only talk about it.

so...........

[kingpost]

Chaps

Read between the lines. The training department is critically short, line guys have a great lifestyle so why not make the line rosters crap to get the chaps to join the training department.......very short sighted, but that's the way do business, even if we are expanding at the great rate ever. It's cost neutral, this way the trainers won't leave to go to the line and we don't have to increase the appointment allowance.

Bunch of tw@ts

[schismatic]

Don't need to read between the lines. Last year when faced with training captain shortages, training management pointed out to senior management that the life of a training captain would hardly be an incentive given the amount of days off available (and controllable) on the line.

The stated response was that the solution was to make the line pilots roster less desirable. (No guesses who said that!)

The cutting back on line sectors for trainees was in a similar vein. After release to line they will only fly with experienced captains for the next sectors. Hence some of the line training is outsourced to line captains. As a result the designation of LTC as a training post is being removed.

So after requesting many line captains to join training and not getting the required numbers they simply force them do the training anyway and save the money!

Line captains, be aware that some of the rostering adjustments are to cater for training restrictions.

[mini cooper]

We will have to see over the coming months whether the bidding has in fact changed. If the muppets in management think that by restricting something ie days off in a row - from a commuting point of view, they will just p*ss off the pilot workforce even more. When will those dunces / thick heads realise that people work better when they are happy, when they feel valued, when they feel they have the managments support.

As of now I am sorry to say that people are not happy (company making profits but poeple still looking for other jobs), they do not feel valued (pilot rest boeing at rear of aircraft to save a coupe of seats so unable to sit on crew rest if not sleepy). they do not feel trusted (just wait for the call to see the managers because you decided to hand fly the aircraft!!).

EK is a joke at the moment, well to be truthful it has been for quite some time. I keep hoping that one day everything will magically come together - but at the moment that day is too far ahead to even contemplate.

For those of you out there that think EK is the be all and end all - it is not, it will not be for a long time. BEWARE.:ugh:

[bulfly]

Just out of interest - how many of you Airbus guys got 777 trips rostered this month? I got 2 and after calling here and there to complain (miracles do happen :8 - I even managed to speak to a live Pre-Ops person), it was explained to me that .... "actually" it is the Indian goverment's fault, because they would not give EK certain traffic rights!:sad: Well, February being my "Top Bid":p month, I got zero 340 trips (which I asked for) and my bid for 7 days off got screw up with a senseless trip in between. Still awaiting the reply of the so called CRS Help Team - looks like management is quite happy to pour all the s*:mad::*t on them!

Hats off to our bidding system :D!

[silverjetblubird]

Hi Gang. Can any one tell me what is truly going on with EK long haul schedules. Is there someone in management who is intentionally inserting turn around trips into long strings of days off?? How do they think this will affect recruiting? Is anyone from recruiting able to answer these question's on this forum? The rumor over here is, that a handful of guys, who initially were going to sign with EK, backed out at the last minute, due to these schedule minipulations. Go easy, my first post.

[nukem365]

Would be interesting to look at the manual insertion and see how many non brit, auz, kiwi, european N/S American etc did not have any manual insertions. I hope they enjoy there days off whilst the rest of bid groups does the work of the reserve groups.

[Fubaar]

Hence some of the line training is outsourced to line captainsThey've been doing that as long as I've been with the company - and rostering DECs with experienced FOs so the FOs can train the ***ing DECs.

[ShockWave]

My guess is that because of fleet changes a lot of sub- continent flights got shoved onto the AB fleet and the only way it could be crewed was by attacking strings of days off. It may not have been a sinister act at all, however I could be wrong.
I have been on 777 reserve and have done nothing so far this month and have just been offered additional leave early march. ? .

Lets not get into another ***ing DEC argument FUBAAR, we are all here doing a locals job until they can train enough to get rid of us. I agree that trainers should be doing the training though. Apart from that it makes perfect sense to match a new pilot with an old hand, I certainly appreciated it as a new F/O and also as a new Captain.

[TangoUniform]

Senor Fubaar,
The US has been doing that for years, mandating that a "new seater" (either seat) not fly with a like inexperienced on type. Accident at the old Denver airport comes to mind. Would you want an experienced 330 EK captain, but very newly minted on the 777, to fly with a like experienced first officer? Sure he may know the route system, but the procedures, systems, capabilities, etc. would be foreign to him, coming from the airbus. Better to pair him with an experienced 777 f.o.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program.....still waiting for some word from Senor Ed. Probably will wait and wait and wait and wait. Getting word about this would be like an on time departure for EK. Ain't never going to happen. Resumes/CVs are being dusted off as we speak. Watch the hole in 3-5 year captains hit big time. Bond is paid off, pay around the world better, and in many cases home basings. Can't have ten or more days in a row off? Buh Bye.

[XKV8]

With regards to Post #25 back on pg 2

I can relate for certainty that Open Time has under gone a silent revision. I was off roster for a period of time (health) which saw my morning turn around flights removed. Out of curiousity, and confirmation of what I believed was happening, I looked in Open Time expecting to see my flights posted.

They were only posted one at a time the day prior to each operation. So open time is not being reflected truthfully. Suspicions confirmed!

FYI

[Fubaar]

With respect ShockWave and TangoUniform, there's a not so subtle difference between the admirable idea of flying an experienced FO with a new captain and flying an experienced FO with a newly employed direct entry captain who has little or no experience in long haul/wide body/ETOPS/international operations/third world operations (take your [multiple] pick), especially if said DEC is taking the command slot the FO thought might have been his by now.

There's quite a difference between what you both describe and what all too often happens on the line with experienced FOs and some of EK's recent DECs.

[TangoUniform]

Fubaar,
Better not fly on any US carriers overseas then. Happens everyday. Guy comes off a MD80 or 737 (either as a captain or first officer, depends on seniority) never seen the front end of a wide body, never been overseas (unless you count going over one of the great lakes to Canada) and gets plopped down in the left seat. You bet they will put an experienced f/o with him. Has he been trained? You bet, but probably doesn't know squat about what he his doing.

This is of couse is the extreme, but does happen--often. Works the other way too. Guy has sat in the right seat for DECADES flying ULR. Next thing you know he is doing five sectors a day, in and out of TRWs in a narrow body in the left seat. Has he been trained? You bet, but probably doesn't have a clue on how to manage his new enviournment.

[ShockWave]

Fubaar... In the specifics you now describe I agree that it was not a great experience and a lot of experienced F/Os and Captains were unfairly treated because of it. I was training new DECs just like you describe and they were earning more money than me! However, I am sure you would agree all DECs are not the same and that it is at-least reasonable to expect the guys in the cockpit to help each other out where and when the may need it.

We will probably all end up as DECs for some airline at some stage of our career and hopefully the guy's job you've taken and are now flying with won't be to pissed off.

[145qrh]

Looks like MR ed has spoken forth some more pearls of wisdom.:}

He has an e-mail on the portal which details changes to CRS. Have read, re-read then read a bit more and still cannot work out what his (almost) random collection of words means.

I think he is telling us that days off in a row are being limited without actually saying it, because people in ther bottom bid groups were complaining.

I can honestly say that for all the gripes that are talked about in EK bottom bid rosters are not. It is an accepted fact of life, take a bit of pain for a bit of gain.

Now it looks like all they are trying to even out the bid groups, bottom less crap, top much less good.

Or have I mis-read our SVP-FO-Capt VD and scar Ed.

[Yossarian]

Just read Ed's mail too! What the ......! Less satisfaction in bottom bids was always balanced out by satisfaction in my top bids. If I understand his coded letter, then we can rely on getting more days off in bottom bid and less in top bid ........ so forget those long strings of days off.

Not going to make for happiness for the poor blokes trying to commute.

[Ramboflyer 1]

As a commuter I was right on to this as well as many calls to the office. Indeed it came from the irrational management way above ED that strings of days off are some how not acceptable. The bull!!!! about the bottom bidders is rubbish as nobody stays on the bottom forever.
Commuting is to be wiped out and if you dont like it leave was what I was told. Indeed i am planning for a new career. Extremely dissappointed.

[Dropp the Pilot]

I'll try to get in this in before the fist-shaking, snarling, I-will-hold-my-breath-til-I-turn-blue posts responding to Ed's email begin.

The message looks completely reasonable.

Bottom bids used to average 9 days off, top bids were 16 and this disparity is perceived as being two high. The CRS program will be altered to target 14 days off as the maximum and no manual intervention will be done in the top two groups.

Prospective employees will see this a non-event I am sure, so over now to the long-standing kindergarten tantrum set for their take.

Standby for infantile vitriol couched in sub-literate English.

[tbaylx]

So they admit to manually inserting trips in days off strings in Feb, but it turned into a mess so the solution from March onwards is to restrict everyone to 14 days off max, the apparent concern being the split in days off between bottom and top bid groups. Basically saying they feel 9 days off average is unsafe on your bottom bids, i think that point is open to some debate.

At the end of the letter is a clear reference to the commuters, saying we know you aren't going to like this but it has to be done. If you were commuting or planning to this just made it alot harder. Guess the non commuters will have better bottom bids in return. I was under the impression most were happy with the status quo, didn't really think it needed to be changed.

[5star]

trimotor,

Expect some AD's to appear in your roster in return for the airbus swap...:}:}:}

[Flying Spag Monster]

"However, concern has been expressed at the vast difference of work between the top and bottom two bid groups"By whom? not the bottom bid groups that's for sure. Annoying when the "safety card" is rolled out for this when it doesn't rate any other time. If 9 days off in a roster was considered a safety compromise then why not use CRS to limit the minimum number of days off to 10? There will be no load re distribution, the work load is increasing faster then the pilot numbers to support it so the bottom group wil still only see 9 days off. This is a response to long strings of days off and the commuters, nothing else. I guess the training department will have to come up with a new initiative, paying to have your top bid month on the line instead of training no longer looks so good.....if it ever did.

[SOPS]

The result is...Top or Bottom Bid..noone is happy..except those who thought this cr@p up......:ugh:

[R. Cramden]

"this disparity is perceived as being two high"

"Standby for infantile vitriol couched in sub-literate English."

Condescending sub-literate tw*t!

[Thylakoid]

I read the letter: not happy:hmm:

Communication within Emirates is a one-way road. They never ask our opinion on anything. Rosters, charts, etc., (see the new LIDO thing shoved down our throats).

These pricks will come up with every possible way to squeeze more work out of the employees. It is a fact that AAR and TC just hate to see pilots enjoying lots of days off, because in their little minds it means low productivity; thus, the pressure on guys like ED and AS to something about it.:*

[Ramboflyer 1]

This company must look so ridiculous from the outside, so much crap we put up with and nothing we can do about it except run to pprune and tell the world how we suffer. I guess it makes us feel better.
EK put us into a nice home , drive us to work , have home help etc... and it sometimes seems difficult to leave, they have given us a lazy lifestyle at home and to go home and work as well as do all your chours and drive to work seem difficult.
Im telling you though we need to break out of this cycle and go home we are trapped by these ****rs and the best thing i did is resign its truly a big relief .