The Demise of Hong Kong Airlines

[Alex Mitrokhin]

So, we are now at the stage where "Our Boss" is still working at another airline closeby (after a miraculous recovery from a long-term illness), and his boys, Little Dickie and Madame Wu Wu are fulfilling the management functions whilst the reamining management incumbents are celebrating carnivale.

"Eric the Bedwetter" over at the local regulator is having a great time playing aeroplanes with his own private aero club, and the rest of us wonder when the axe will finally fall on the remaining ICAO Level 6 speakers. Amazing chain of events, reminds me of the old Chinese curse, "may you live in interesting times".:{

[eric is a loser]

11 F/O's got the sack today. These pathetic men are getting their childish ways. I hope the world comes crashing down around them.
HKA, you were warned. The rest should just pack up and leave, and let these snakes wonder why they have no crew.

[Agent Mulder]

yes these guys are going down the toilet fast.....absolutely disgusting how they laid off 14 pilots....what goes around , comes around thats for sure.Lets hope alll the pilots get jobs soon with HK /Macau operators.

[boocs]

I appreciate this is a rumour forum, however 14 pilots in 1 hit is quite a blow. Any main reason/s for this decision?

b.

[Chaz737]

Very sad day.

Too bad the lads from SIN don't realize that EVERY other pilot is planning on resigning ASAP. Soon they will have no pilots.

Then they will no doubt be happy.

To the boys (& girl) who got screwed, I know it seems bad now, but you are WAY better off.

[Sue Ridgepipe]

11 F/O's got the sack today.

Wow that sux! I really feal sorry for those guys who left jobs in other countries, left their family and friends behind, and went to HK for a job, only to find themselves out on the street now.:sad::sad:

How could management be so incompetent to let it come to this?:confused:

I hope you guys are all gainfully employed elsewhere in the near future.

[Mr. Bloggs]

I guess they talked to Cathay Pacific Management on how to sack en mass. Why, because they can. Great bunch in Hong Kong. :{

Sad to hear.

[Coastrider26]

Absolutely disgusting action, at least they can look at their pretty aircraft from their offices when they are parked :}. Hope all the people involved get a new job really quick.

[fruitless...]

Good guess Mr. Bloggs! The SIN mob had intensive training with AHK in CX City. :} :rolleyes:
Signals Rescue 99 were given months ago..! :ugh:
Sad indeed.

[bazbogan]

A disgusting abuse of expatriate good faith....shame on you HKA!

[pedro the bus driver]

I see none of the donkey r:mad:ting bandits got the boot, is this a racist thing?
Some of my spanish speaking amigos keep there jobs even after starting after these guys, with less hours...but yet only the 14 westerners got the boot.....is this true? If so even me disgusted.

[skyjockey]

Pedro,

This looks to be the case, the new asian management do not like the people the "old Management" hired so unfortunately these poor guys are caught in the middle of these new twats power struggle. It is in fact true that several of your amigos are still employed whilst the westerners that joined before have been let go. Pretty disgusting if you ask me, good luck to you all, and to management how the f#** can you expect loyalty from any employee after treating people this way. :=

[hongkongfooey]

The right words to describe HKA heirarchy CANNOT be used on this forum.
However, words like pathetic, amatuers, brainless, racist, dangerous, liars, etc can.:mad:
These pilots have come half way around the world, some with families, in good faith, to work for, hands down, the worst aviation company I have ever come across anywhere in the world ( or heard of ). Most of them even left good or 1/2 decent jobs to come here.
Most if not all of the FOs sacked where good people and will find a job easily, it may not seem it at the moment, but they will realise it is the best thing that ever happened to them
I wish they would sack me, it would be a good incentive to find a better job sooner.
HKA had a great bunch of guys and gals and they will lose the lot in less than 12 months, nobody is going to stay at this joke of an outfit.

Good luck to the 11 ( or 12 or 14 ) pilots, believe me, they have done you a favour.

[Kermit750]

When you receive news like this you want some sort of explanation. The explanation given was financial cutbacks leading to cancellation of aircraft orders. Understood and accepted.
Enter the south China morning Post Business Section.
"Hong Kong Airlines rejected the suggestion that an expansion slowdown was behind the layoffs"
"We still want to speed up our growth, and laying off less suitable pilots is one of the steps to take"
"Most of them flew turbo prop aircraft, which are popular in Europe but seldom used in Asia."
"They would take a long time to adapt to operating jetliners"
Well gee David Lui, its all clear now. Thanks for the personal address through our friends at South China Morning Post.
.....Sorry, more to say?
"The company would hire other first officers with more flying hours on the right aircraft type to cope with the development plan."

That would have to make the guys feel all warm and fuzzy.

[bazbogan]

The 14 guys/girls to go were by no means inexperienced...I think only one of them had less than 2000TT and all the others were 4000+ with BBJ, B747 and high perf turboprop time ie:Q400 etc - so why the hell would they take time to adapt to a jet Mr Lui?:ugh:
They were all bloody good folk with good intentions, only to be kicked in the guts as their reward. I cannot understand the logic in the random sackings of those affected and why those lower in seniority escaped scott free...fair huh?:= Westerners proceed with caution is the only message I have.

The unfortunate thing for HKA is that in doing this terrible act they have intensified the existing staff members search for new employment.

Congratulations:D

[Flying Mechanic]

Even Stevie Wonder can see the writing on the wall at HK Airlines.......................GET THE HELL OUT.

Quality Turbo prop pilots will be the backbone of CX and KA future recruitment.......HK Airlines you just sacked 14 future captains, u will pay the price.

[hongkongfooey]

What experience level does this rocket scientist think 80% of chinese airlines FOs have :mad:
Putting it in print just shows the rest of the world what a joke he and his airline are :yuk:

[Mr. Green]

Goes to show again that labour protections are non-existent - doesn't matter which organization you are in. How sad - why are we paying taxes here again?

For those like me who is out of the loop, can someone please explain the real reasons for sacking these people?

[womble006]

Does anybody know what experience the F/Os who did not get the sack have, if I am told correctly , junior to the ones sacked

[beerboy]

The only way that management will take any form of notice is if people start to leave, none of this standing up to management. What is it going to achieve for the chaps still here?
I think what people are doing, is flying when they can, getting what hours they can get and at the same time applying for elsewhere. In todays job environment, it was probably a blessing in disguise for those that have been sacked. The ones who are unlucky are still here, trying to rack up hours with the ever decreasing flights available.
As for the newspaper article, not even guys within the company knew about it, never mind the public. So it sounds all a bit like bravado and anger.
The latest is that the new management want to bring in their own pilots, so do you really reckon they care if you stand up to them or not? HKA is overstaffed at the moment and its probably what they want, any excuse to fire anyone who decides to put their head up.

[Hoofharted]

Yeah good onya beerboy, not everyone is content to cower like a snivelling mongrel dog as you suggest. Be an ar$licker if you choose, but don't expect anybody with any sense of dignity to follow your lead. "sit, sroll-over, good doggy"

[beerboy]

Dear hoof harted, who said anything about cower? When does doing the job you were employed for means that you're arse licking? I wonder if you yourself work here, if you do I would gather that you are a bit of a hypocrite as I haven't heard anyone who fits your description, i.e. someone challenging the management, as all I can see are the remaining boys and gals going about their jobs, getting the hours and getting themselves out of here.

If you are one of the boys, gals who was sacked, then you have every right to be pissed, confused if not downright F%^ked off. If you feel that you want to take your anger out on me, then I hardly can do anything to stop it and indeed if it makes you feel better then go right ahead.
As it stands I am making a statement of fact, anyone who is half a decent pilot and is pissed off with the company knows there is only one thing to do, that is to get the hours and move on, why would you waste any more time and energy at a place where you are treated like a dog(there you go hoof, you heard me say it!) .

As for fighting back and getting some sort of payback..please hoof harted, enlighten me in how you intend to do so?...I'm guessing there will be no reply as i am only a good dog, however, if it does humour, please tell me how I should be a disobedient doggy? I, like you would like to hurt the company, but doing it the only way that would be practical, and that is to leave when I can. Now what is your idea of hurting the company?

To make a statement to the press, it will be headline news for a day, maybe a bit of a uproar for two days, then the person who made the statement made it anonymously and goes about his(her) business of gaining hours. This person probably felt better for it, and hand of applause for the ingenuity, but why waste time going to such lengths when you could be studying for that job interview, or even going about applying for one.

Another option, a statement with pilot's name attached, therefore probably giving the management an excuse to fire them, very brave and good for him or her, then go look for another job, should be employable in todays climate, maybe not, and then what? go and get the hours somewhere else, not as nice, rainy India, maybe or cloudy China.

Give me a clue, as being just a dumb good dog, I don't have any..and when you come up with one, I shall either piss on it, or bark to your approval, but in the meantime, I reckon you'll be content shouting down from your high horse at us lowly mutts. ruff ruff

[Hickory Stick]

Glad I left this outfit a few years back, never have looked back once!!!

Cheers

[Arrowhead]

Given management of all companies (not just aviation) have a habit of lying...

how are the pax loads on average at HKA? If they are not good, I would bet that the real expansion plans are being scaled back, and they decided to "shave" pilot numbers to save some cost.

To decide who, comes politics (read nationality), "teamwork" (read "does he just suck it all up"), and ability (could be any definition) to decide who goes. Sadly, its rarely the latter that makes any difference.

[Mark_Tuck]

Does anyone have a link to the SCMP article ??

Good luck with the job hunt guys!

[Eff_Ohh_Ron_Jeremy]

I've heard that the sacked pilots were told their "lack of proffesional experience"... ie: 'jet time'... was the reason they were being let go even though some below them on the 'seniority list' were not... and also why new f/o's will replace them.

then why is a young local pilot who was let go for various performance related issues 're-hired'/brought back/whatever in favour of those recently let go. I understand this chap has virtually no experience. Not wishing him any ill will of course... good luck to him (not his fault)... but just wondering how HKA management justifies this.

Oh... and i also heard about the new 'package' you fellas got.

[hongkongfooey]

Yep, new package, too little too late, many more resignations to come.
2 FOs and 1 skipper throwing in the towel in coming weeks, another 6 or more FOs to follow if sucessful with KA.( and they will be )
Only sad thing is I think Management are foolishly happy to see all the expats leaving.
The new package was an insult to FOs with less than 1500hrs jet and will see Captains able to earn ( overall ) as much as KA FO, if they do 90-95 hrs/month. Still crap sick leave, holidays, staff travel etc etc etc .

[Sleeve_of_Wizard]

MR GREEN........We pay taxes here in HK so that they can keep digging the roads up. It'll be a nice place when it's finished.........

I have an idea, when advertising for Pilots, if you want JET EXPERIENCE, put it in as a requirement!!!! Don't change it months later!!!! Glad to see a couple of my mates left before this happened.

[Coastrider26]

new package?? new package?!?!?

You mean the company PAYCUT which you can join on a voluntary base....:}:ugh::{

[AAIGUY]

NEW PACKAGE IS NOT MANDATORY.

You can (and should) opt out. They CANNOT change your COS unless you agree.

The whole thing is insulting.

[flyforestfly]

what is happening next to hka/hke ? did anyone receive the open forum mail ?

[hongkongfooey]

Dont ya just love it :p
3 resignations ( 2 capt 1 FO ) in the last fortnight and about 6 ( possibly more ) definites in the next few weeks :ok:
Most, if not all, of the " fourteeners " have jobs, and are alot happier.
Cant wait for the arrival of the 50 'Buses :D, even if they did come, who is going to fly them :confused:

[HKEHKA]

hongkongfooey, maybe you can pack your bags up and leave instead of pointing out all -ve thoughts & Bi**tChIn NON STOP ! it's so good out there so just leave and DO NOT WASTE your time where ever you are at now.

there are still too many extra fo's and more to come and will come so it dosen't matter 6 or another 16 leaving (exisisting ones can get more flying) and also for the commands to leave it will be a good opportunity for others to fill up their seats.

good for the 14's who got jobs and i would like to wish then best of luck !

there are alot of pilot's out there still available around the region to fly the upcoming airbuses.

[chickflick]

HKEHKA,

You must be taking the p:mad:ss.

You try and rally the troups by posting a bogus email address to join a union and then turn around and support the b/s by your latest thread.

Confirms to me that you are either one of the slippery singasnakes or your in their back pocket.

Suggestion : do what you do best and f:mad:k off

[PieChucker]

:D:D:D:D

Well said chickflick.

Singasnake - love your work

[bazbogan]

Agreed, I smell a rat:suspect:

[Hoofharted]

HKRHKA

Just a little help for you today;

"Deluded" - verb, to mislead the mind or judgement of; deceive.

"sycophant" - noun, a self-seeking, servile flatterer; fawning parasite.

On the other hand maybe you are much happier living in a parallel universe enjoying your meal of trouser-snake.

:ok::ok::ok::ok:

[Alex Mitrokhin]

HKEHKA, let me guess,

Zeke Lah?
Mdm. Wu Wu Lah?
Little Dickie Lah?

Your living in a dream world lah!

More resignations to come, best of luck lah!

:D

[hongkongfooey]

:} :} :} :}
Hey HKEHKA, what makes you think I am still in the Barnum and Baileys :confused:
This is an ANONYMOUS rumour network tool, do you really think, unlike yourself, I would give away who/what I am and where I am going/gone/been.
You really are a lot dumber than you look.

there are still too many extra fo's
Say what you mean dude, " too many extra Aussies/Kiwis "

commands to leave it will be a good opportunity for others to fill up their seats.
Yeh, you can put some more guys in the LHS that have not a clue what they are doing.

good for the 14's who got jobs and i would like to wish then best of luck !
Was going to say a pity there was no last on first off used there, but you actually did them a favour

there are alot of pilot's out there still available around the region to fly the upcoming airbuses.
Bah ha ha ha ha :E:E

[eric is a loser]

HKEHKA
Becareful what you say coz its obvious who you are.

You have the be the dumbest to ever write in this forum.

HKEHKA are not going to get many more applicants. Word is out about the snakefaced c%nts that run the show, and the inexperience they have are rapidly f&%kn things up. HKEHKA will only get those pilots who have bought their ATPL's from corrupt authorities.

I wish I knew that if I flew in formation with another couple of aircraft I could log it as multi engine time????????
According to one of the new managers, that is the case???????

Need I say more...............

[Flying Mechanic]

and its counts as Multi Crew time as well.....thats the best i have heard this year.With these wan@ers at the helm, the co wont be there in 18 months!
14 people just got a lucky escape...... i hope the rest of the crew have irons in the fire!

[Eric Cheng-Kok]

"I have tens-of-thousands of hours wide-body time"

= I have 5000 hours TOTAL.

"I have thousands of wide-body command hours"

= I have 900 hours wide-body command

I thought the translation may assist those who are not familiar with the dialect spoken.

[hongkongfooey]

" We have 50 airbuses coming "

There may be 1 more 737 turning up, to make up for the one we're losing

" You will be flying a widebody by the end of the year "

You will be flying a widebody by the end of the year........... for KA or CX or QF

" We have too many FOs "

We have too many FOs that are the wrong nationalities.

" This is an extremely good pay package "

The guy working the DB toll gate is jealous of what we earn

" I am very experienced in Airline operations and this is going to be a great airline "

I am smoking crack

[sim01]

throw out RG with his fancy titles , high handyness , god like attitude and butt lickers and bring back ZEB KHAN to run the circus

BRING BACK ZEB , BRING BACK ZEB

[hongkongfooey]

zeb's dead baby, zeb's dead

[Epic 76]

"I've done my research. Have you done your research???"

I asked my mum and she said I was right.


"Put you and me in a sim together and I'll show you how good I am"

No one will fly with. Will you fly with me? Will you be my friend?


Somebody send this clown back the circus he came from.

[Hoofharted]

"I've done my research. Have you done your research???"

"Put you and me in a sim together and I'll show you how good I am"


What the? :confused::confused::confused::confused: Please explain what on earth you're on about:confused::confused::confused:

[eric is a loser]

I know you keep checking this forum and it is wise you do not reply....... since anything you say or do is reflecting how stupid you really are
BUT,
it seems your groups evil plans are working! The round eyes are leaving in droves. The new regime will get their ethnic cleansing as proposed. All they'll have left is that two faced F/O to follow you all around and suck your fingers!
What a great combination for a new airline.....hiring direct entry captains who don't have a clue what they are doing and put them with your puppy dog F/O who thinks he knows what he's doing! Maybe you could make him the first training F/O and teach captains how to taxi.

HOOFHARTED
Those are ACTUAL quotes from new management. Self explanatory.......

[eric is a loser]

It never ceases to amaze me that there is still all this talk about airbuses going to HKA.

Even after the president gave his propaganda speech (before the new bedwetter tried to sell his bull!!!!! pay scheme), he specifically said that Hainan airlines buys aircraft under the HKA umbrella to avoid tax issues and the red tape of getting approval from Chinese Government, exactly the same reason why it looks like HKA had 30 737's on order but they only have 7. What happened to the one aircraft per month from 2008?
The president even said, that HKA have to prove they can operate the airbus IF they arrive.........

HKA is no longer getting anymore aircraft, because Hainan are disappointed with HKA Management. They are useless.


With the current Manager of Ground operations in charge, you can see why the airline is falling apart. OTP is ridiculously low(despite the new bedwetter trying to blame the reason on flight crew), they cancel flights with low loads. They get all pi$$ed off and hang up the phone on Flight crew managers after pilots refuse to operate into freezing rain conditions?? And then go crying to managers arguing "we must be seen to be trying"........
What idiot gave him a managers job? He obviously has no idea about anything to do with flying operations. So how can he handle 50 Airbus? And this is only one example of how this ******** f&$ks up.

And now these new idiots coming in from AHK blowing their own trumpets are going to add to the mismanagement. The new bedwetter has already made a fool of himself by pretending to be an experienced pilot, and by being "proud" of his new pay scheme. He wonders why everyone laughed when he presented it. The way of the future? What an idiot.
So because of this new bedwetter, lots of guys are leaving..... Meaning lots of new training required for new entrants, meaning more expenditure.
Its a matter of time before Hainan asks why they are spending so much on training, especially since alot of retraining will be involved(not to mention the bedwetters retraining since he didn't meet the standard in Korea, and the no shows of 8 new Captains in Korea).

Another reason why no new aircraft will be going to HKA.

Who cares if the new management can have a better rapport with CAD. They can all wet their beds together, but it doesn't change the fact that it is going to be run into the ground.

[Leaving HKA]

Someone told me yesterday that they were getting a B747 Freighter.

I pissed my pants laughing.

Unless we're talking about a toy model for WuWu-La's desk, it ain't never gonna happen.

Since having left this joke of a company, life has never been so good.
Just heard that almost EVERYONE of the 14 "unexperienced" pilots that were let go found work.

Most with other larger HK Airlines.

Since that another 1/2 dozen have resigned with atleast 5 more waiting for starts elsewhere.

[wonganopolous]

HKEHKA couldn't be arsed listening to his troops at the so-called 'open forum'. Well, he might be wetting more than his bed if he keeps his eye on this forum...... Has the company got a contingency fund to pay off the CAD to fast track the incoming cheap labour when there's only 5 f/o's left??????

It took 4 months to come up with that laughable package?!?!...... You really live up to your dumb C*&^T reputation.

Seriously, bring back ZEB!! hmmmm, think we found you a sim partner- between the 2 of you, it might only take 2 months to figure out how to set the park brake.

[Flaps70]

Don't worry Adam Air had another overrun today, two more pilots looking for a job with HKA.

[hongkongfooey]

INDONESIA'S transport minister warned that budget airline Adam Air may be forced to halt its operations after a series of accidents involving the carrier. In the latest incident, a Boeing 737-400 operated by Adam Air with more than 170 people on board overshot the runway at the airport on Batam island yesterday, causing damage to the plane and injuring five people.
"We are giving them a chance to improve. If there's no change, we will place them in the third category," Transport Minister Jusman Syafii Djamal said.
The third category under the ministry's rating system means the airline has three months to improve before its operation is suspended if it does not improve.
Adam Air was in the second category, which means it has fulfilled minimum safety requirements but still has deficiencies.
Adam Air spokesman Danke Drajat said the airline, which flies mainly domestic routes but also to Singapore, was doing its best to improve its safety standards.
"We are completing all manuals and revamping the standard operating procedure," said Drajat.
In January last year, an Adam Air plane crashed into the sea off Sulawesi island, with all 102 on board missing and presumed dead.
Indonesia's airline industry has grown rapidly in the past decade following liberalisation, with the launch of new players and a wider choice of routes across the sprawling archipelago.
However, the country has suffered a string of airline disasters in recent years, raising concerns about safety standards and prompting the European Union to ban all Indonesian airlines from its airspace.


Is it true that HKA are actively seeking the services of a certain 1-2-GO Captain and the Garuda Yogyakarta ace :}


Can't wait to see some of the new ( and old ) hires in the 'Bus, should make some good reading in the SCMP

[jetjockey696]

Ok does anyone has T & C on these guys on hand..:sad:

[Flaps70]

If asking stupid questions was an science you'd be a professor!! :D:D:D:D

Of course there are people that have this kind of information (like me) just not willing to share it with you or somebody like you or any other scab.

[Flaps70]

If asking stupid questions was a science you would be a professor!! :D:D:D:D

Of course there are people that have those (like me) we're just not willing to share them with somebody that can not read or do a simple search. There's a wanabee section for questions like this.

Please tell me reading is a requirement for recruitment

[Phlaps 40]

What is of far more concern is why someone would want the T&C's of a company in this state.

Are you a masochist 696?

P40

[AAIGUY]

No, Look at Jet Jerky's past post. He is a low time South East Asian pilot.

He's just trying to get a job, even though he is really barking up the wrong tree here..

Not part of the current in crowd.

[eric is a loser]

Perfect if he has low time.
Just need to tell everyone he's got thousands and thousands of hours jet and come up with a ridiculous idea for a pay scheme, and then be adamant that its the way of the future and he could be HKA's new GM.

I'm sorry jet jerky is bearing the brunt of this. Maybe he could spread the news in his part of the world.......DONT GO TO HKA

The company is a ticking time bomb with idiots that have no experience in running an airline in charge.

You'll be looking for another job in 6months anyway coz the idiots will run the airline into the ground, or God forbid, you'll be writing an incident report explaining why your Captain f*&ked up(I'm talking about new captains coming with the new regime).

Do yourslef a favour and stay away!!!!!

[Fair.Pilot]

Guys,
anyone has the latest Ts & Cs? mind to share the payscale?

thanks....

[Blown Seal]

You want to know what the t &c's are? Well they are sh!t. There are you happy now?:ugh:

[wonganopolous]

If you're from anywhere in SE Asia, it's an attractive package- especially since you are cheap labour... the new Nazi regime came in and committed genocide of all the kiwis, aussies, poms, and yanks coz they know their worth. But the regime know that they can propaganda-rise all the asians in the region to come and work under 'local' conditions with no housing and subsequently work for 50% less than all the other ex-pat pilots.

The holocaust by the Fuhrer and his Party is working, so there's plenty of jobs.... you'll literally have no trouble getting a job if you're Singaporean, Malaysian, Indonesian, Chinese, Indian etc... they know you'll be more than happy to rent a dog kennel for 5K a month, so you won't be worried about not getting a decent housing package.

More resignations in the coming week. A warm welcome to all the Adam Air applicants. Introducing new crew meals soon: Nasi Goreng and Beef Rendang....

Heil Hitler!

[sandu]

@wonganopolous (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=75446)
back home I know for sure you are cheap labour with prop. hour..otherwise you wont be here

''More resignations in the coming week..''
good to hear..going to CX(be 2nd FO)/ KA:D? or maybe AHK(follow n****e):oh:

i suggest go to EK/QR/SV..they need ''eXperience'' guy like you(dont forget gain some Jet hour before you leave):ok:

[Leaving HKA]

SANDU, obviously you are one of "immigrant" expats by your tone.

Should Any OU/HX pilot go to be a

CX SO he would earn on average 40 % more than if had stayed

KA FO he would earn on average 300% more than had he stayed

And in both postitions have benefits such as staff travel in Business Class, a medical scheme that actually paid out when a claim was submitted, proper home to live in, not a Tung Chung Shoe box.

Don't you worry, guys will be hitting EK and QR too. I FO's with interviews @ both. IIRC, 2 lads recently turned down EK to go KA.... Lot's of choices for the experienced FO's from HKA..

[wonganopolous]

Don't worry boys... I hear a bit of Bob Marley: "Stir it up, little darlin' stir it up...."

Back at ya Sandu! Back home, I know for sure YOU TOO are 'a' cheap labour..... otherwise you wouldn't be coming here!!!!!

You're a bright spark aren't you Sandman??? Earlier posts have pointed out your lack of intelligence, so our colleagues have kindly done the maths for you.

In the words of our Fuhrer: "We've done our maths, have you done your maths??"

Your ego obviously overrides your intelligence, so enjoy your time at HKA as a F/O or Capt... and while your salary will have bottomed out even as a captain, the rest of us will be earning more than that even as a S/O or F/O... Salute! On ya mate!!!!!

Ozzie ozzie ozzie, Oi oi oi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sandu]

@wonganopolous (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=75446)

good to hear... you will have more money..at last

happy happy happy joy joy joy

[craigbell]

Sorry for being a dumbass, but can someone confirm to me that HKA is Oasis and HKE is Hong Kong Express?

Disregard the above! I did search HKA and Hong Kong Airlines and google screwed me, sent me straight to what I now know is OHK!!!! Sorry for the misunderstanding!

[hongkongfooey]

Oh I don't know, the prop time seems to keep us out of the dirt, unlike some other countries with all their jet experience :D

[sandu]

@eric is a loser (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=208223)

dont like it...just go....so many job outside...
but wait...you dont have enough hour..:}..yeah yeah

[AAIGUY]

Sandu, you are such an idiot

Even the 14 white guys and gals that were fired ALL have jobs with other airlines (and respectable).

Any western pilot still @ HKA is there only waiting on a course date with another carrier.

HKA had some seriously experienced people with varied backgrounds capable of filling roles that were created with the expansion.

All HKA has now is an accident waiting to happen.

[sandu]

@AAIGUY (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=98341)
for 14 guys..I feel sorry for what happened.but happy to hear that got a job already..i wish them happy in their new place.

but for those who always saying pilot from SE Asia is a third class pilot..cheap labour. thats an offensive..very insulting.
are you saying all western pilot the ''most'' of all???whos an idiot now??? hopefully not you
Peace man...i dont like to have enemies..but I wont tolerate to some ''group'' keep saying negative words to pilot from SE Asia

[AAIGUY]

You'd have a great case Sandu, Except the Racism started when the 14 pilots were let go
and other MUCH lower time SE Asian pilots were hired.

Its that simple.

We were a very diverse and international group who worked well together and liked each other.

Now the current management has changed that and created the prejudice.

Wasn't it you who said the western pilots HAD to stay as they had "little experience and no hrs.." I think if I scroll up .. yes.. yes it was you.

Edit. Just in from pool and thought I would reread this to see if I was over the top.

This time I wasn't. In fact I want to further add I had the great pleasure on my type course of being paired with a gentleman from China, previously an Air Force pilot.

He is among one of the best pilots I have ever flown with.

All the issues with HKA started 3 months ago. We didnt' start the fire.

[galdian]

AAIGUY

Sorry for any thread drift but your statement " he is among one of the best pilots I have ever flown with " caught my attention.

Could I just ask if you are refering to any specific aspect (manipulation/communication/situational awareness/systems knowledge/CRM etc etc) of his operation or making a general overall observation/assessment??

Just interested.
Thanks :ok:

[Epic 76]

Let's not get into too much mud slinging here.

The fact remains a localisation policy in an airline with a workforce on expatriate has merit, namely financial and a lower staff turnover.

HOWEVER....HKA/HKE, whilst employing expatriate staff DO NOT employ them on expat terms. Thus, no financial benefit in localising. Additionally, there are no 'local' pilots in HKG. There's no GA sector, no regional airlines, no Sammy CPL's flying meat bombers on weekends to draw from. ALL pilots (save cadets from CX/KA) are expats. So to wantonly fire 14 professional, motivated and QUALIFIED gwailoh pilots amounts to nothing more than ethnic cleansing.

History has shown (Zimbabwe, Malaysia, etc) that when people are employed on the basis of race and not merit...inefficiency and inadequacy result. Whilst that may be tolerable in an accounting firm, a consultancy or your local Park N Shop....it has FATAL CONSEQUENCES in an aeroplane. Darwinian theory should be culling the incompetent so only the strongest survive (to pilot transport category aircraft).

Singapore Mafia: Missing your Satay and Otak Otak BBQ on East Coast Park? Well keep some in the fridge ladies cos you'll soon have the charred remains of a 737 to roast them over.

[S.E.Pilot]

I would love to see all the airlines in Hong Kong trying their best to localize their pilot teams. Although it takes time, "There is a dream, there is a will.":ok: Moreover, I would like to see every pilot in this planet will get his/her pay rise in which meet his/her desire. Unfortunately it doesn't happen as what I wish.

I have my sympathy with what you all are earning now. Since you all have to live in a city with such a high living cost.

No matter how you scream in this forum, it won't change the fact that this is how it is. I wonder what happened to your own race, when they were in charge of the flight department. Why didn't they fight a better package for you all? Otherwise, you all don't have to scream at the tip of your lungs for a better conditions & terms now. In addition, why did they have to suggest or accept such an intolerant of package from the company in the first place anyway:=? The previous flight department should have known how high the living cost is in Hong Kong. Moreover, they should have also known how good the packages are in KA & CX.:ugh:

When you all first joined the airlines, you had already comprehended how much you would make monthly 'cause it should be specified in the contract, which means you have been mentally prepared to stand for the low salary for a couple of years until you have enough experiences to walk away (if this is what you have planned.)

:oh:If I were you all, I wouldn't just scream and yell in this forum. I would escalate it into next level either strike or walk way right now.:oh:

[Left Wing]

HKA needs to duplicate the model Jet & Kingfisher have used in India, the expats come in for 12-24 mths based on their expertise and are given clear expectations once there are enough local Indian pilots the expat will leave.

This kind of transparency does not create a rift between pilots and keeps the expats happy as the management has given the expectations in advance so no surprise let alone fire 14 qualified pilots....

We all know the "great" Capt L from CAAS...he created all kinds of hell at Alteon then 2 months later applied for a job :mad::mad::mad::ugh::{

any one has contact of N.H. pls pm me. thks.

[Blown Seal]

Dear S.E. Pilot,
some thoughts in response to your post:

- You would like to see all of the airlines in HK localize their pilot workforce, do you mean only people from HK or the region? The point is moot really as the countries in the Asian region either have little or no General Aviation from which to draw pilots from. Not all former airforce pilots are suitable to fly in an airline either (the piloting of an aircraft by a former Indonesian Colonel in Phuket springs to mind). So where are all of these pilots going to come from to meet the unprecedented growth in the airlines of HK (and Asia)? Think the the new MPL will solve all problems? Think again, it really won't be much better than the current cadet schemes airlines like CX and KA already have in place in solving crewing problems, and as an afterthought of all of the applicants to these programs, how many people actually successfully pass and end up in the LHS? I suspect that ratio would be very small.

- Thanks for your sympathy, here is some information as to how expensive HK is and how it has been increasing:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601089&refer=china&sid=ajQNUP59FCI4
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/top-50-cities/2006/06/26/1151174117013.html
Talking purely about rent and no other living costs, my apartment went up 20% after the first 2 year lease. Wages have certainly not even kept close to this sort of increase.

- The previous Flight Ops management were fighting for better conditions for us, but, in typical Chinese style they were smiled at and lied to at the same time by the senior management and when their backs turned they were covered in knives. The package that the previous flt ops management presented to their bosses would have actaully kept people had it been approved. The current package presented by the new management is successful, in making people look for other jobs. Which is what they want anyway.

-Finally strike or walk away? Well going on strike, what does that achieve? A good outcome for both the management and the pilots? I don't think so:hmm: So walk away huh? I think the evidence is pretty clear that this is already happening, as a colleague previously posted people are only waiting to get another job.

I am unfotunately of the view as well that a smoking hole in the ground, over run etc is only a matter of time.

[Blown Seal]

Left Wing,
It is no use comparing HK to India, India has hundreds of young aspiring pilots with fresh cpl's, HK doesn't. Don't you think CX and KA would have hired them already if there were???:ugh:

[Eric Cheng-Kok]

Any witnesses to round one of the "HKA Management versus the Rest" World Series at the Stars Bar on the 14th?

Apparently the score is 0-1, with the HKA management rep. down for a technical knockout in the first round. He was apparently feeling a little "Wu-zy".

:ok:

[Hoofharted]

Hey Sandu, before you start pulling the "there's nothing wrong with our standards, you are just racists" card, you may wish to check the following FACTS. I know that it is the local custom to pretend that a problem does not exist and that if you deny it for long enough the problem may just go away, but this WILL NOT. :ok:

Indonesia takes air safety standards back five years

Steve Creedy, Aviation writer | December 03, 2007

AIR safety has taken a significant backwards step, with crashes in Indonesia helping push this year's global aviation accident rate back to 2002 levels.
The disappointing slip came after a decade-long campaign by international airlines to halve the accident rate produced the safest 12 months on record last year.
A reminder of Indonesia's troubled air system came at the weekend when one of the country's busiest airports, at Medan, was closed indefinitely after a fire razed the domestic passenger terminal.
Preliminary results for this calendar year from the International Air Transport Association show an accident rate of 0.9 aircraft losses for every million flights, up from 0.65 for 2006.
Crashes in Indonesia, including the fatal accident at Yogyakarta that killed five Australians in March, pushed the Asia-Pacific rate up to a sobering 3.27 losses for every million flights.
The increase in the accident rate comes at a time the aviation industry is growing at 5-6 per cent a year and means the absolute number of crashes will rise accordingly.
It also undermines a push by the International Air Transport Association to cut the accident rate by a further 25 per cent by the end of next year.
IATA director-general Giovanni Bisignani described the result as "a big step backwards". He said some areas were doing well and there had been no accidents in the Middle East or North Africa.
IATA's work with Russia and the Commonwealth of Independent States had also helped to turn the worst safety record of last year into a clean slate so far.
Europe and North America also reported improvements, while North Asia suffered one total aircraft loss but still had an accident rate below the global average. The international airline group blamed three areas for the increase: the Asia-Pacific, Brazil and Africa.
Mr Bisignani said tragic accidents pushed up the Latin American total aircraft loss rate to 2.52, while the Indonesian crashes increased the Asia-Pacific rate to 3.27. In Africa, a more dispersed and unrelated set of accidents increased the rate from an already bad rate of 4.31 to 6.04.
"We are a global industry and flying must be safe everywhere," Mr Bisginani said. IATA had established partnerships with Indonesia and Brazil to improve the situation with practical measures and was working in Africa.
The IATA prediction comes after the European Union recently voted to maintain its ban on Indonesian airlines because Australia's northern neighbour had failed to make enough progress in improving its troubled aviation system.
All Indonesian carriers, including flag carrier Garuda, were banned earlier this year from landing at EU airports.
The director of aviation safety and environment for the EU, Roberto Salvarani, said during a recent visit to Australia Indonesia had made some progress but this was marginal compared with the restructuring needed.


Perhaps "OSTRICH" airlines would be a better name for HKA. I guess that would actually be an injustice to the ostrich as he only has his head in the sand, not up his fvck1ng arzeh0le as is the custom with you lot.:)

[grummanfighter]

Think the flight in your country is the safest? THINK AGAIN!!

Safety checks after OzJet http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/editor/menupop.gifmid-air scare
(Source: www.news.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/). 03 January 2008)

Air safety authorities have ordered checks on black box flight recorders and damaged wing parts from a second OzJet flight following separate mid-air incidents two days apart.

The incidents involved Boeing 737-200 aircraft which developed severe vibrations after wing malfunctions. The planes still were grounded yesterday, one in Port Moresby, the other in Noumea.


In the first incident on Saturday, about 100 passengers on Brisbane to Norfolk Island Flight 334 were told to don lifejackets and prepare for an ocean landing after the plane started rocking violently.
In a separate OzJet incident on New Year's Eve, a Port Moresby to Brisbane plane returned to Papua New Guinea after developing severe vibrations. In that case, the safety bureau said the problem involved a different wing part, known as an elevator trim tab.
bla..bla..bla...

[AAIGUY]

With regard to early question vis-a-vis my sim partner, that is really not public info. I said he was a good guy and he is. I am not going to post his strengths online. I respect him way too much for that.

[S.E.Pilot]

Quote "This kind of transparency does not create a rift between pilots and keeps the expats happy as the management has given the expectations in advance so no surprise let alone fire 14 qualified pilots...."

Left Wing,

I would like to clarify if these 14 pilots were actually hired by the new flight management, and fired them by their own hands?

[S.E.Pilot]

Quote "The package that the previous flt ops management presented to their bosses would have actaully kept people had it been approved."

Dear Brown Seal,

You are saying that there is another package is actually better than the one you all are offered on the desk of the senior management now. I got a question here. Why didn't the previous flight management executed the "better package" before new guys come over, since it had been approved by the senior management.

I would like to say if it really exists (I am not here to challenging your integrity.) And the preivous management implemented it before the so called SQ snake came over. There are at least 3 goals can be achieved:

:EFirstly, the names of the preivous flight managment team will be missed forever.
:ESecondly, it will piss off the new coming guys, 'cause they cannot turn it over.
:ELast but not least, it will show to the rest of the aviation world, they are responsible to their fellow pilots and live with their words when they are still in their last minute power.

:confused:I am not here trying to be a smart ass, but I just doubt of what have actually happened:confused:

[S.E.Pilot]

AAIGUY,

Thank you for your complement to the Chinese Captain. I suspect that this Chinese Capt. is neither from CX nor KA, which has proven the point that Chinese can be professional airlines capt. as well. In addition, he is trained by one of the airlines in China.

In my point of view, most of the aviators can be professional airlines capt., it is just a matter of training quality and how much you want them to be successful. There is a Chinese saying in China "There isn't any dumb students, but only incompetent teachers"

[Hoofharted]

Hey Gooseman Fighter

Think the flight in your country is the safest? THINK AGAIN!!

I'm sorry but you miss the point entirely. How many people were killed in the incident you refer to? How many injuries were there, how many runway over-runs, hull losses or maybe even hull damages or maybe even broken finger nails? Please tell me, can you?........the answer is nill, none, nada.

There is no comparison between the number of people that are killed in the region when perfectly serviceable aircraft are pranged with monotonous regularity by operators referred to in the IATA survey, and a perfectly safe air-return for a malfunction that did not even cause somebody to stubb thier toe.

Yes there are "incidents" that occur within every system and in every country but not with the endemic regularity that occur in certain places.

[Blown Seal]

Amigo I think you had better check your text books, or even better an english dictionary, mechanical problem does not equal pilot error :hmm:

[Chaz737]

The fight by Starz was good to hear

Working being done for us by passed HKA brother.

Hkapilots need to bring down the Wu'Las too.

As to other comments by Gooseman fighter../ SE Pilot.

There will be always mechanical accident.
Pilot from Malaysia,Sing, and Indonesia actually KILL people by pilot error. This happen all the time, even on Sunday, some 60 yr pilot fly his plane into water tower in Indonesia..

Sorry , your just wrong. Chinese pilot we have good. Above pilots just very bad.

[ulaula123]

Just heard that pay-rise was with-drawn, is it truth?

[pilotinasia]

chaz737, PLEASE THINK CAREFULLY before you reply to a post or maybe post what you want to post such as " pilots from malaysia, sing, indonesia actually KILL people by pilot error" Just to reply back to you humbly, no matter where all of us pilots comes from, we are all human & we do all make mistakes including yourself. So PLEASE THINK CAREFULLY before you make such a comment because you could have offended many other pilots from around the world !

malaysia has malaysian airlines, air asia, maswings, transmile etc ... these guys are flying at almost every corner of the world at any time and also have many expat pilots (from many countries) flown and still flying for them. do you think they KILL people ?

sing has singapore airlines, jetstar asia, silk air, many of them are locals including expats has been flying for them and even ended their career with them which also includes locals and do you think they KILL people with their errors flying around the world ?

indonesia, yes i do have to agree they did had some incidents/accidents but the local gov is trying their very best to resolve all these issues but not all indonesian pilots which have lots of experience from flying not well maintained a/c's , poor work conditions, etc but nevertheless they do have experience where many may not have and also do understand the condition that indonesia is in for so many years ? there are also alot of indonesian guys flying for alot of major carriers around the world, they also have families to go home too after their flights, so again, do you think they're out there to KILL people with their mistakes or they do them intentionally just because the pilots you quoted as per your comment ?

there are also alot of pilots from your home country flying for all of the KILLER pilots comes from that you mentioned above my friend.

i do not intend to start an argument here, but just want to get things straight and we are all pilots here !

[galdian]

It's all about CRM - nothing more, nothing less.

The traditions and culture of many Asian countries is incompatible with the optimum, and safest, way to operate modern aircraft - to have company operations manuals that reflect the need for both Captains, and First Officers, to follow a procedure to resolve "inconsistencies" in flight path with the final provision that F/O's MUST take over if the safety of the aircraft is in doubt.
Provides a clear requirement (and support) for F/O's to speak up and a clear requirement (and company mandated requirement) for Captains to listen and act accordingly.
Undoubtedly some companies in Asia have such a system however many (especially those newer companies run by geriatric retired/discarded 18th century thinkers from established companies) do not - AND NEVER WILL HAVE.
The right and need for tradition/culture to override safety is primary in their minds; of course by all means discuss it to death but under no circumstances do anything about it!

REMEMBER: it wasn't Korean Air management who decided driving aircraft into the ground and killing people was a bad thing, it was the insurance companies who said "weeeeell you can keep doing that if you really want but we won't insure your aircraft so it's gonna cost you a s**tload on your balance sheet; if you want continued insurance this is what is required...." :ugh:

Maybe it's time someone (ICAO, IATA, someone else, really don't care) stood up and said "for the benefit of international aviation safety, bearing in mind the difficulties at times to accept safety is more important than culture/tradition, this is what is required of your operation manual and training or else you don't fly...."

It's only a year ago in Indonesia that an F/O proved well and truely he would accept having an aircraft crash, and people die (maybe even himself!) rather than defy the culture and tradition.

In modern commercial aviation the ability to manipulate an aircraft is secondary to the ability to make decisions based on information from numerous sources - and for the Captain to be accountable for his actions (or non-actions.)
It's called CRM - not the strongest aspect of many companies based in Asia.

Just a few random thoughts
cheers
galdian :ok:

[Blown Seal]

http://www.airdisaster.com/statistics/

With some interesting exceptions these figures really do speak for themselves. Asian airlines are comparable to African/Middle Eastern airlines with their crash rates. And these figures are not uptodate either, with the glaring omissions being One-two-go and Adam Air. Care to refute the facts Pilotinasia et al?

[silversaab]

Think the flight in your country is the safest? THINK AGAIN!!


Not sure what your point is grummanfighter, other than posting something for your first ever post, just for the sake of it. Note your link is from a Jan 08 article. Have you bothered looking into things any further? :suspect:

[Leaving HKA]

Another interesting week with HKA.

2 more FO resign today (western FO's)

Singasnake Li-La does so poorly on his TRE course that he can't even be recommended.

FAIL.:D Amazing.. he did so bad he failed his chance to fail!:ugh:
Oh my LA! The Hainan overlords won't like that la..

Oh yes.. and this just in....

Indopilot @ Adam Air did kill everybody due to his being a poor pilot.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/news/pilots-blamed-for-new-years-adam-air-crash/2008/03/25/1206207086596.html

[Eric Cheng-Kok]

So Little Dickie didn't rise to the occasion?

Does this mean that he won't be writing the much publicised HKA AEX course? Remember, this was the last course that HKA were going to outsource, "We wil have our own examiner's course approved by the HKCAD."

I suppose their little pet over at the "Kowloon Fried CAD" could have lent them some scholarly assistance, he is very experienced after all.

:E

[Alex Mitrokhin]

Wasn't Little Dickie going to be a Flight Operations Inspector for the Singapore Authority????

How embarrassing!

:uhoh:

[bazbogan]

The FLT OPS department heads are fast becoming a joke...Little Dickie not even passing the TRE course and Mr Wuzzie involved in abit of good old biffo...what's next?????:rolleyes:

[Humber10]

:} But you can still log formation flying (single engine aircraft!) as multi-engine, cant you...... :}
I dont work for HKA, but I laugh every time I hear that one.

[Dan Winterland]

If you led a formation for solo students in the RAF as an instructor, you could count that as instructional flying. But I guess that doesn't really impress. If people really believe that they need extra multi hours this way, they must really be scraping the barrell!

[venturi101]

Sound like a pack of typical racist, disorganized, idiots.
Their actions WILL bite them in the arse, cant wait to see it.

[S.E.Pilot]

what's up with HK Airlines? Any news?

[Leaving HKA]

Not much... still a pack of c*nts.

More western guys leaving..more !!!!! peoples from places like Adam Air lining up to take their jobs..

[hongkongfooey]

Wot about, a certain TRE failee still being approved by the bed wetter to run LTC course...............anyone..........:eek:
Oh, and said bed wetter, no longer CAD deligate for HKA, still doing Tainjin over nights............ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC :mad:

[Alex Mitrokhin]

Apparently the "bedwetter's" Tianjin nightstops have been cut back ever since his wife did a "spot-check", and turned up with a full fare ticket on one of his flights. :\

The crew on the flight said that it was a lot of fun!

[Dan Winterland]

From today's SCMP in an article by Charlotte So entitled "Airlines struggle with pilot shortage"

"Hong Kong Airlines, a small airline backed by HNA Group, needs to recruit eight captains before May to acheive its' expansion plan and by the end of march had attracted only a couple of enquiries for the posts.

Unlike big carriers such as Cathay Pacific Airways and Dragonair, Hong Kong Airlines said it could not afford high salaries for it's pilots, making them hire from Southeast Asian re-cruitment markets including Malaysia and Singapore."



One advantage for the guys at HKA (considering the location of their office) is that if they do aspire to a 'high salary' - all they have to do is cross the foyer!

[S.E.Pilot]

How does the new pay scale look like?

[MOETMAN]

Whats happening with Hong Kong Express ? all very quiet, with the parent company(HKA) in such great shape ..... one would wonder if they will be around for the hypothetical Christmas bonus (sorry guys):}
BTW can anyone there still speak english?

[captncannot]

our new pay scale?

well my basic salary has actually gone down.

But the absolutely fantastic news is that it's apparently 'competitive' with the market, and I now get a housing allowance of $HKD20,000 per ANNUM :rolleyes:

The FOs get even less. I'm not sure what kind of accomodation I can get for under $HKD1,700 a month in Hong Kong but I'm going to Wan Chai today to find out!

Thanks for the penthouse HKA! Spread the word, this place is a goldmine.

p.s NO, there aren't any missing zeros, thats the package on offer.

[Sue Ridgepipe]

Whats happening with Hong Kong Express ? all very quiet, with the parent company(HKA) in such great shape

Since when has HKA been the parent company for HKE? :confused:

[Eric Cheng-Kok]

The ownership of HKE is simple enough...but the ownership of HKA is a different matter.

Suffice to say, there isn't much "Hong Kong" in "Hong Kong Airlines".

:confused:

[MOETMAN]

No Eric, only 55% Hong Kong in HKA :ugh:
45% Hainan Airlines in Hong Kong Express.
Being the single bigest shareholder (Hainan)and the supplier of their aircraft , I suppose their voting rights on the board would look pretty good , so I would say It is safe to assume that they are calling the shots . Not to mention that there is zero asset value in HKE , they lease everything.They can pack up and leave tomorrow ,as so many fledgling airlines do.
Certainly hope you don't work there.
Keep up those Dragon applications though, that light at the end of the tunnel is probably a freight train.:eek:

[S.E.Pilot]

Agree with you, Moetman, I hope for those who suffer from the low pay in HKA/HKE will be accepted by KA/CX in order to see the bright side of Hong Kong Aviation Industry. I will say it is totally bull !!!!! for the one who said Hong Kong Airlines was unable to afford a higher salary to pay their pilots.

In my point of view, if HNA is not able to accept the fact that this is how much professional pilots worth in the globle market, exclude in China only, please get the f**k out Hong kong aviation market and the international aviation industry, and stay in the !!!!! hole China aviation market. I feel pathetic to China Eastern Pilots and the rest of the chinese pilots in China.

[ngapsayot]

I suppose the Hainan Air chaps will tell you to F**K off, too. HK is part of China and you should stay in whatever outhouse latrine pit you are in as you are equally pathetic and bellicose!

[hongkongfooey]

Projects manager resigned, no one new applying, Singa snakes continue to :mad: up, QARs up the Yin Yang.
Everything good ( ops normal ) just like Oasis :(

[Alex Mitrokhin]

I concur with the previous post, Oasis and HKA had nothing in common, Oasis were doing their best to run a professional operation, totally unlike the HKA operation, run by a bunch of philistines.

BTW, the latest out of HKA/E central is that Eric the Bedwetter has been thrown out of his exalted "acting" position at the Kowloon Fried CAD (his acting wasn't up to the mark). He is returning to HKA as a Flight Operations Inspector (the only operation on the airfield that will have him).

I was in the office the other day, and the Lyin' City Boys have made him up a basket to sleep in, and he has his own bowl as well.

:p

[hongkongfooey]

No disrespect to the Oasis crews, but clearly they weren't run that well were they ? since HKA still going and Oasis not :hmm:
For how much longer tho ..............................

[hongkongfooey]

the hypothetical Christmas bonus

Don't laugh Moet, the Chinese new year bonus was a crack up, the bonus was actually less than the bus fare to go and collect it, seriously :eek:
Kinda like KAs CNY bonus eh :{

[diablo_caliente]

Hey fooey
For a guy who claims to have loads of jet experience, seems pretty funny how you still work there! You're just a loud mouth. I can't understand after all your bitching you're still there! You are either a loser or a martyr. Save your "tuff" words for when you resign, but for now just be a good bitch.

[hongkongfooey]

This is what I said to HKA/HKE who is probably your bum buddy,along with your snivelling little mates, so at the risk of repeating myself, here it is again:

Hey HKEHKA, what makes you think I am still in the Barnum and Baileys :confused:
This is an ANONYMOUS rumour network tool, do you really think, unlike yourself, I would give away who/what I am and where I am going/gone/been.
You really are a lot dumber than you look.

When did I say I had so much experience, you complete tool :ok:

Hang in there, I am sure if you keep :mad:ing up, you will get a command just before they go bum up :rolleyes:

[Fair.Pilot]

TKD,
last post was your 1st post? Hmm....

[diablo_caliente]

FOOEY
Ring any bells?

QUOTE:

Anybody else sick to death of hearing about the pay and conditions increasing :mad:
Well, I am, and also sick of being the lowest paid jet pilot in HK ( inc corporate ), probably not far from lowest in Asia.:ugh:
Its been nice flying with you guys/gals, most of you are waisted at HKA.
I know there probably isnt much call for a middle aged pilot with 15000+ hours, 9000 jet command,:rolleyes: but I'm going to give it a go, and as soon as I get a bite, I'm outta here.
Suggest you do the same, I doubt this place will ever get any better, you will grow old and grey waiting for it to.

Hmmmm. Gee, dunno Fooey, where would I get that idea from? Be honest buddy, you don't really have that time, now do you? Maybe your best friend does!
Keep up the good work..Don't 4get to update your CV. Or do you really want to stay?

[hongkongfooey]

Damn it caught out.
No, you are right, I love it at HKA, and want to die there ( which is on the cards )
Who should I send my resume to :confused: , I'm just like you, a no-hoper stuck at HKA 'cos nobody else will employ me.
please help
signed, Desperate

[diablo_caliente]

Fooey
QUOTE;
I'm just like you, a no-hoper stuck at HKA 'cos nobody else will employ me.


Sorry buddy, you're nothing like me!
Just take the advice you so freely give others..Just leave and get a life. With all those 9000 jet command make believe hours you may have a hard time finding something, but Good luck.

I bet you see big green monsters at night too!

[diablo_caliente]

Fooey BTW
Just to help you out with the CV. Don't bother sending it to HKE. I'm pretty sure mythbuster is only joking!
Good luck.

[baboonNetti]

Kids please to be staying calm! All is well here at HKA and our new team is working hard to make thing better. IR is make promise that we all be high pay jet pelots! soon

[Hoofharted]

Jeez Diablo, just can't help yourself can you? Most of us HAVE moved on and are now employed by reputable airlines as opposed to the epitemy of an unprofessional general aviation circus that you call home. Funny isn't it, the only people that remain at "wally world" by choice or who do not have an exit strategy, are the d1ckhead losers like yourself who are incapable of gaining employment elsewhere and so rely on outfits like HKA having to scrape the bottom of the barrel to keep you in a job. I actually pitty you a great deal, having to look in the mirror every day and tell yourself over and over again "I have a wonderful job, every day in every way it's getting better and better and better". Good luck to you anyway hope the self hypnosis works eventually.

[K.Y.J. Lee]

Interesting to see that flight cancellations are now happening due to crew shortages. I guess it doesn't help that the new team can't seem to get any new crew checked to line.

May we live in interesting times.

[diablo_caliente]

Give me a break Hoofharted, or should I say Hongkongfooey! You're so transparent!

[hongkongfooey]

..........I want some of what Diablo is smoking, or maybe he is just high on life, working for the most professional, best paying outfit in asia :E

[Arrowhead]

Diablo

You sounds like a top guy :ok: You should come and work at Air Macau - you would fit right in with all the others just like you :D

ps Air Macau mgmt is the same

[Kermit750]

Its the first time I have gone back over this forum, since losing our jobs. See you boys have been very productive. HaHa.

Think we should all get down to the Star Bar and settle this like men. Or not really men whatever the case may be. Snigga snigga! Aint gonna happen.

For those that were helped with a HKA style exit strategy I hope you arent involved in this crap. Lets all meet for another hug at the Aviator in a few months hey?

[Hoofharted]

The working class can kiss my arrrrse
I've got a well paid job at last,
I'm out at work and off the dole
You shove HKA up your hole!!
:p

[Sue Ridgepipe]

Noticed recently a shiney new B737 sitting on the tarmac in HKE colors, but rego seemed to be similair to the ones HKA use. Are these guys trading planes between each other now, or is there no one left at HKA to fly them?

[Allou dri]

another NEW one joining the fleet...cheers!

[hongkongfooey]

Do some study or something Hoof, you have way too much time on your hands :E

[Kamikaize]

Does Anyone know if Gabriel Capdevilla is still with hka???

[Leaving HKA]

He is, but I am sure he is smart enough to be making other plans.

[Sora Bulq]

Good to see GR at the Aviator after his departure from HKA. He is a good man, and always tried to achieve the best for the staff. All the best with your new career!

HKA "management" is now fully in the hands of a very inexperienced group. The only way they can continue is the fact that they have the HKCAD in their back pocket due to "Eric the Bedwetter" being their pet. Who knows what they have done to keep him onside. With Oasis now gone, it will be interesting to see if the goings on at HKA/HKE come under more scrutiny from the Government, or Eric manages to keep on pulling the wool over their eyes.

:uhoh:

[Capt Vertigo]

Sad to see GR go.. :sad: but the new management (SINGAS) claims to be 'the best in the world' ..!! :(

See the threads under 'Great Wall' (Far East & South East Asia) will give a good description of these lying 'SINGAS' ... wherever they go. :ugh:

Good Luck!!

[Alex Mitrokhin]

Rumours circulating that "The Bedwetter" has booked himself on a B777 conversion course. Perhaps even he is seeking insurance.

Hints For The Course:
When taking off on 07, Lantau Isalnd is on the right.
When taking off on 25, Lantau Island is on the left.

There, that just about covers it.
:mad:

[hongkongfooey]

Alex, you forgot to mention :
When the speed drops below clean speed, with the trend arrow 2 inches long and heading South, you must LOWER the nose.
When approaching the ground, you must RAISE the nose.
There, now that covers it :ok:

[Eric Cheng-Kok]

How about ensuring that the guy that teaches your course hasn't failed the Examiner's course?

Now, that wouldn't happen would it???

:=

[K.Y.J. Lee]

How about when switching off Engine Anti-Ice, try to avoid switching off Engine Hydraulic pumps?

:sad:

[hongkongfooey]

They won't have to worry about that Jell, the first of the A330s arriving before the end of the year.............Bwah ha Ha ha ha ha ha :yuk:

[Hoofharted]

THIS IS INTERESTING: :sad:

For U.S., Europe and Asia, great distances between airline safety regulations
By Nicola Clark and Heather Timmons International Herald Tribune
Thursday, April 24, 2008

Despite the intense criticism that was heaped on the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration in Washington this month, regulators elsewhere say they still view the United States as the global standard bearer when it comes to rules for air safety and regulatory compliance. And while some regions have introduced additional layers of oversight in recent years, regulators note that U.S. air accident rates are the lowest in the world.


Safety records in Latin America and Africa are far and away the world's worst, with accident rates as high as six times the global average. In the Asia-Pacific region, where passenger traffic is growing fastest, regulation remains a patchwork ranging from shoddy to exemplary, depending on the country. Even in the European Union, where national regulators are held to account at the EU level, the number of accidents was still three times higher last year than in the United States.


So as the U.S. regulator's safety crackdown on American carriers led to thousands of flights being canceled, some observers overseas were puzzled by the uproar.


"It looks from here like an over-reaction," said Wolfgang Didszuhn, a retired Airbus vice president for airworthiness who is now a consultant to the air safety authority of the United Arab Emirates. "I don't think the FAA's image has suffered from this, but I do think everybody feels a bit sorry for them."


For European regulators, the recent U.S. crackdown brought to mind the crash, two years ago, of Helios Airways Flight 522. In that case, a Boeing 737-300 flying from Larnaca, Cyprus, to Prague, flew on autopilot for two hours, its pilots slumped unconscious over the controls, before plowing into a Greek hillside when it ran out of fuel. All 121 people aboard were killed.


A Greek government inquiry into that accident ultimately blamed maintenance technicians who had left the plane's pressurization system switched to manual rather than automatic - which led to a rapid loss of oxygen in the cabin. But the Cypriot aviation authority, which had had a reputation for cronyism before joining the European Union in 2004, was also criticized for "inadequate execution of its safety oversight responsibilities."


The airline, renamed Ajet Aviation, collapsed in 2006 amid a threat from the European Commission to ban it from the Continent's skies.


While the Helios tragedy could be viewed as an example of failed oversight, some airline industry regulators pointed to the subsequent crackdown by the EU as demonstrating the additional pressure that the European system can apply to fix any weak links.


"You could argue that national oversight at the time of the Helios crash was not rigorous enough," said Daniel Hoeltgen, a spokesman for the European Aviation Safety Agency, or EASA.


"But the initiative to assume power at the European level, and the political message that the commission was intent on banning the airline, worked. It showed that we had teeth."


There is no pan-Asian oversight board that inspects airlines, and old-fashioned, bureaucratic country regulators have often been slow to keep up with breakneck growth. Meanwhile, start-up budget airlines, often fueled with private equity, hedge fund and local stock market cash, are embarking on ambitious expansion plans that give regulation and inspection little thought.


A boom in passenger numbers - up 7.3 percent over all in Asia in the past year - has not been matched by a rise in skilled maintenance personnel, a rise in qualified inspectors, or an increase in regulatory stringency. As the Indian Aviation Ministry said in the 2007 year-end review of its own operations, "there is a mismatch in growing workload and the existing strength, resources and infrastructure."


Employees of state-owned airlines are paid poorly in many Asian countries, and government employees who serve as regulators are often paid less. "The problem is attracting the right people in the right place," said Torbjorn Karlsson, managing partner with the aerospace, military and aviation practice of Heidrick & Struggles in Singapore. "Governments need to give better incentives to these people," he said. Karlsson estimates that an engineer who jumps from a government regulator in some countries in Asia to an international aviation parts supplier like General Electric or Rolls-Royce can increase his salary tenfold.


In February, Giovanni Bisignani, the secretary general of the International Air Transport Association, called Asian security an "uncoordinated mess" and urged airlines to be more proactive. "Asia should be thinking of a regional security area with harmonized rules and tools using the best modern technology," he said at an aviation show in Singapore.


Bisignani this month also urged governments in Africa and Latin America to do more to improve their air safety records. Africa - where more than 40 people died last week in the crash of a DC-9 on takeoff from Goma, Congo - is the most unsafe region in the world for air travel, with one accident for every 244,000 flights, according to the air transport group. That is six times the global average of one accident for every 1.3 million flights.


In Latin America, where air accidents number one for every 600,000 flights, Bisignani bemoaned the lack of a common regulatory framework and noted that the International Civil Aviation Organization, an arm of the United Nations, had recently discovered 250 instances where Latin American regulators had fallen short of minimum international standards. "This is a dangerous embarrassment for the region," Bisignani said.


All countries sign up to the UN agency's guidelines, "but the truth is that not all countries live up to those standards and that is causing some concern," said Andrew Herdman, the director general of the Association of Asia Pacific Airlines, a 17-member industry trade group that includes some of the largest airlines in Asia.


EASA, created in 2003 and based in Cologne, has a mission focused on setting standards for air safety across the EU, which comprises 27 countries. It performs many of the policy-setting functions of the FAA in the United States, though it relies on national regulators of the EU member states to ensure its guidelines are followed and that the hundreds of maintenance directives and inspections that EASA orders each year are carried out by airlines.


EASA issued roughly 450 separate airworthiness directives to national regulators in 2007, of which 76 were in response to specific incidents, like the series of crash landings last year by Q400 commuter planes operated by Scandinavian Airlines.


"It's a system more or less based on the principle of mutual trust," Hoeltgen said, though since 2006 EASA has been conducting confidential audits of the national air regulators' compliance records at least once a year. The inspections, which last four to five days, normally also involve spot visits to a handful of airlines.


Hoeltgen said there had been a number of cases in recent years where either a national regulator or an airline had been out of compliance with EASA directives, though he declined to cite specific examples.


"In these cases, it has been up to the member state authority to design corrective action," he said. "They also have to convince us that this has been done properly."


National regulators say the second layer of oversight, rather than hindering their work, gives their inspectors added authority with airlines.


"It's EASA that issues the directives, and ultimately they have the final word," said Jonathan Nicholson, a spokesman for the Civil Aviation Authority in Britain. "Our job is to ask the airlines how they intend to meet EASA's requirements and then we verify that safety checks and maintenance have been done by auditing airline logbooks and making gate checks."


The possibility that carriers and regulators could face separate scrutiny from EASA's inspectors, he added, provided further incentive to comply or risk EU sanctions.


The turmoil in the United States was seen as a reaction to a long-term shift in the way the FAA oversaw U.S. airlines, from strict policing to a more collaborative approach that critics said went too far. Whistle-blowers at the FAA disclosed that they had been discouraged from cracking down on Southwest Airlines, and they found a sympathetic audience with Washington lawmakers.


That prodded the FAA to order an audit to check whether U.S. airlines were in compliance, a record penalty of $10.2 million against Southwest - and the grounding of thousands of flights, primarily from American Airlines.


Unlike the FAA, EASA does not have the authority to fine airlines or national regulators for noncompliance. Instead, the agency can notify the European Commission in Brussels, which has the power to take member states to court. A court ruling against a member state would result in all of its carriers losing their right to fly within the EU.


"This acts as pretty effective deterrent to lapses in oversight," Hoeltgen said.


Just one year ago, for example, Bulgaria - which joined the EU in January 2007 - stripped five freight airlines of their operating licenses in a bid to pre-empt a blanket EU ban on its carriers.


After a series of accidents and mishaps, the European Commission in July banned all 51 airlines from Indonesia, which has an especially poor safety record. Indonesia's fleet joined a blacklist of more than 90 airlines that included carriers from Liberia, Iran and the Democratic Republic of Congo. The United States has warned citizens against flying on Indonesian airlines, but the country has no direct flights to the United States.


Yet Indonesian carriers still fly freely into Asian and Middle East destinations, including Singapore, Hong Kong and Saudi Arabia. Garuda Indonesia, the country's flag carrier, has code-share agreements with Malaysia Airlines connecting Jakarta with Frankfurt, London and Manchester via Kuala Lumpur.


While the FAA's struggles have been followed closely, many regulators, airline executives and trade groups in Europe and Asia still view the U.S. regulator as a role model.


"You shouldn't need to have a regulator looking at every aircraft as it takes off or checking every turn of a screw by a maintenance person," said Nicholson of the British agency. "The regulator is the fallback. Ultimately, it is the airline's job to do what it has to do. When there are lapses, responsibility can only ever come back to the airline."


In Indonesia, regulators - in consultation with the FAA and other international safety bodies - seem to be aiming now for more stringency. Last month the country banned Adam Air, a low-cost carrier, from flying because of poor training of pilots and ground crews, and said it was passing new legislation related to airline safety.


Adam Air, which is run by a 27-year-old, Adam Suherman, and his brothers, has suffered several accidents, including a crash in January 2007 that killed all 102 passengers on board.


Of course, not all Asian airlines are in the same category. Carriers and regulators in Singapore and Australia have strong safety records and are often considered the region's best.


Singapore Airlines had an unbroken 28-year record of accident-free flying until a Singapore Airlines flight crashed during takeoff in Taiwan in 2000, killing 83.


Singapore's aviation authority audits local air operators twice a year, in addition to spot safety checks, and rotates inspectors so they cannot form cozy relationships with airlines they audit. Singapore Airlines says it follows manufacturers' maintenance instructions to the letter.


Australia's Civil Aviation Safety Authority has tightened up its auditing process in recent years, according to Peter Gibson, a spokesman. As well as keeping a database that it hopes will spot slippage in maintenance and safety standards, it has created a system of independent auditors.


Nicola Clark reported from Paris and Heather Timmons from New Delhi. Tim Johnston contributed reporting from Sydney.



http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/04/23/business/safety.php (http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/04/23/business/safety.php)

[Sora Bulq]

Very interesting to note that the Singapore authority rotates Flight Operations Inspectors to avoid "overly comfy relationships", sorry, how many operators in Singapore?

In HKA's case, their FOI can't work with any other operator on the airfield, due to "past performance issues". The management of HKA are quite proud of the fact that they can do whatever they want, as they openly say "we have the regulator in our back pocket". It makes a mockery of the concept of regulatory oversight. Time will tell.

:sad:

[Blown Seal]

Did anybody bother to go? Anything to report or just the usual bullsh!t?

[hailer]

Has there ever been so much ire on one web site in the history of PPRUNE aimed at both management AND the regulator? Clearly to an outside observer on the evidence portrayed the airline appears a managerial disaster and fit only for one's mother in law to travel on. However I thought the standard of regulatory over-sight was pretty good?

Is there really that much difference between HKE and HKA? Both obviously controlled by HNA and supposedly only the minor shareholding difference standing between the two organisations becoming one happy (AOC) family? Yet HKE seem to escape unscathed - they must be a much better outfit.

Certainly in their independent days HKE seemed better run than the old CR, from the ashes of which HKA arose more like a serpent than a phoenix. However both were commercial basket cases and seem to be still so. At the end of the day only commercial success will see jobs created. Oasis was apparently a very happy place to fail in!

It is interesting that this blog seems fixated on former Singaporean AHK Flt Ops Managers. They are third division when it comes to influence with HNA and dictating what happens to the airline although they obviously have a big impact on the pilots. However total silence on the senior management recently imported who are supposedly managing the two airlines. Are they the saviours they portray themselves as? (Incidentally, I know of no Flt Ops management that could sack 14 pilots without endorsement from the board - even CX DFO and the 49ers!)

A few months down the line and a few more receiverships could make this hiring bonanza disappear might quickly. The "Demise" in the title of this thread seems more illusionary than real!

[hongkongfooey]

The "Demise" in the title of this thread seems more illusionary than real

You need more than pilots to run an airline, unfortunately, you also need passengers, which is something HKA do not have a lot of, except for the odd charter here and there, their loads are :mad:

Drivers I have spoken to at HKE not a whole lot more impressed than same at HKA, although at the moment the flight ops management at HKE is better ( they actually know what they are doing ), how long they will last is another matter.

As yet, HKE have not done something blatantly racist like sacking 14 western F/Os and then continuing to hire F/Os from Indo, Singapore, local etc.
Although at a time when they were supposedly short of F/Os, they did stand up and say they would not hire any of the 14, I'm guessing this little directive came from above.

[Dan Winterland]

Quote: Although at a time when they were supposedly short of F/Os, they did stand up and say they would not hire any of the 14.

They left that job to KA. KA's and the pilot's gain. :D

[Fac6]

Jeez, just read this thread and this situation truly sucks!

And we moan about CX?

[Sora Bulq]

I have to agree that the Flight Operations Management in HKE is a whole lot better than HKA.

Rumours circulating to the effect that Hainan Airlines are directing that HKE Management reamain untouched, as it appears the cracks are showing in the performance of the boys from Lyin' City. In the Chinese way Hainan wants to ensure that they have a backup if things turn pear-shaped at HKA.

May also be significant that relations with the HKCAD may change somewhat with the demotion of the Bedwetter.

:ooh:

[MatRempit69]

Dengar kata HKE services to KUL canx / terminated.. now what happens to RJ's promises of commuting and SNY travel home?? :ugh: :(

[K.Y.J. Lee]

Tidak boleh lah! So many more broken promises to come!


330 Commands for all Captains Lah! Tiada Masalah!
Commuting rights Lah!
Big payrise Lah!
:sad:

[NotHere]

Rumours circulating to the effect that Hainan Airlines are directing that HKE Management reamain untouched, as it appears the cracks are showing in the performance of the boys from Lyin' City. In the Chinese way Hainan wants to ensure that they have a backup if things turn pear-shaped at HKA.


Spoke to one of the local recently, he claims that it is the biggest embarassment for the Chinese community throughout the world for what those SNAKES have done so far.

SHAME, SHAME, SHAME....................:=

Happy Landings!!

[hailer]

Not Here,

I suspect a little matter of the Olympic Torch Relay probably weighs more heavily on the mind of the world-wide Chinese community than any action by HKA mismanagement!

Sadly the hopes for things getting better probably rests in the hands of HNA admitting that they have made a mistake in their selection of the latest senior management and that could be a "face" issue. HNA will in any case be focused on the commercial issues not the personnel iniquities. HNA are very hard nosed

In the end it will be the dismissal of the clowns who hired your tormentors in the first place that will see the current Flt Ops management being removed.

Although the HKCAD part in the long running saga of clear operational weaknesses (ever since CR days) is less than praiseworthy to date they could still be a useful conduit for change. That requires your pilots to work with them, rather than making rather pathetic references to "Bedwetters". It would be futile to pin hopes on them unless there are clear safety issues that can be proven by reference to QAR data or demonstable non compliance issues. If there are such examples HNA and the CAD will run scared if they come out into the open. However, the path of a "whistle blower" is not an easy one, and justice only prevails in Hollywood productions so protect your six o'clock!

I would take a bet that in the end the reason the latest lot will be shown the door is because of (inevitable) commercial failure and incompetence, not any perceived sympathy for mismanging the pilot force.

Who knows, it could lead to the right result for the wrong reasons!

[Alex Mitrokhin]

HKA went thorugh an IOSA Audit in November last year. I remember hearing that there were only ten findings. Have they ever got around to clearing their findings and getting IOSA accreditation?
:zzz:

[hailer]

Alex,

HKA are still not on the register - check the IATA web site, tab IOSA.

10 findings sounds like a complete fairy tale - just reading this thread indicates they are not in that league .

[Sora Bulq]

Actually, I believe that Alex is correct. Only a handful of findings.
Heard from a very good source!

I checked on the IOSA site, and HKA don't appear as stated by Hailer. Obviously they don't have the ability to clear those last findings.

[drool69er]

I would have thought the incident at Stars would have knocked some sense into Wuzy......... obviously not. I think there has been so much of his airforce buddies sperm pumped up is arse it'll take a bullet to fix him.
When he says he was a wing man in the airforce, I think he's meaning "ring man". Maybe it's Snake pronunciation of the engrish language??

Give it 6months, and HKA will cease to exist, and these snakes can go back to the swamp pit they emerged from. Never before has HKA lost so much money per month since these idiots took charge. My guess is a large chunk of the loss is due to the training cost of these idiots failing checks.

I've flown with 2 of these self appointed trainers for HKA and I think that "land on the center line" is not part of their syllabus. In fact it almost seems that, "just get the thing on the ground" is more like it.

As for all you doubters out there that think its previous management fault that HKA is in the state its in now....... I tell you that the reason why there was no pay rise from them, is that this !!!!! pay package was proposed long before Wuzy got out of bed with Eric the Bedwetter and it was thrown back at management because it IS insulting. Previous Flight Ops managers stood for what they beleived in, not like these spineless idiots that are there now.

Soon all that will be left in HKA is that brown noser puppy dog F/O and his
Singa Snakes. No one else likes these guys at all, and want to leave, including local staff working at citygate and LNAC house. Well done Singa idiots!!! You've shown the world how to F&*k an airline in less than 6 months. You shouldn't be as arrogant as you are, you are all a shame to your country!!!

As for that arse licking F/O, you all should be very aware of his links to websites!!!! That guy has absolutely no friends/girlfriends or social life except for his laptop. If you want to keep your files secure, stay away!!!
This guy will do anything to be the first upgraded F/O, as he keeps telling people he will be???? What an idiot.

For all F/O's left at HKA, keep an eye on these new Captains!!! Save yourselves.

[AAIGUY]

It was something like 10 findings on the IOSA audit,

BUT

That was due to them having a professional in the position of cleaning up all the deficencies.

That professional is now happy employed with Swire Group.

In fact, all the Management that was in place for the IOSA is gone, therefore, they can't even really qualify for IOSA, as the people and systems that were originally audited aren't there anymore.

[SlimShadey]

"Four legs good, Two legs bad"

Animal Farm (1945) is a satirical novella (which can also be understood as a modern fable or allegory) by George Orwell, ostensibly about a group of animals who oust the humans from the farm on which they live. They run the farm themselves, only to have it degenerate into a brutal tyranny of its own.

[Leaving HKA]

Enjoyed the Animal Farm reference,

however these SINGA-SWINE are in no way well read.

Its unlikely they could understand the reference.

[Eric Cheng-Kok]

Well done to Slim for a very relevant analogy with the Animal Farm reference, and I think Leaving HKA will now pass into history for coining the latest term for the "management" at HKA, the "Singa-Swine". Do you mind if we shorten that term to the "SS""?

I seem to recall another group known as the SS that had a predominantly racial agenda.

:uhoh:

[pilotinasia]

Let's hope everyone will get a REAL offer and just leave and move on just like the rest of the guys. Why waste precious time digging, reading, hearing and complaining ? Snake or not Snake, Kissing A:mad:s, upgrade or promote, wetters, HKA / HKE, KFC, CAD etc ... who cares BTW with so many waiting and wanting to leave. Better to focus at better options and with lesser heart ache, headache and not waste any precious time. Especially with so many recent offers for FO's and Capt's worldwide. Good luck to ALL.

[Leaving HKA]

WE HAVE LEFT.

There are but a handle full of our mates left under SS control.
One is Europe interviewing, Another gave notice to join V Aus,
2 others are sitting on interviews elsewhere waiting..

There will be no one but FO puppy dogs that will allow the Swine to literally 'buy the farm' with all onboard.

I think perhaps we should start a pool as to when either they will be shut down/ merged with HKE/ or otherwise dismantled, or when the first prang occurs..

The point of this thread is to keep the public and future pilots (although as they will all be from the "master race" and likely not understand enough english to read this..) aware of what a joke this air service is.

[drool69er]

This email was circulated today by the HKA training manager:

Hi Guys,

I noticed the norm during PCs with V1 cut, the procedure of BUG UP for flap clean up does not correspond well with CAD170 requirement of -0 to +200ft allowance in maintaining acceleration altitude while cleaning up the aircraft. I believe those following the standard practise would have failed this section in their PCs. The FD gives a target for acceleration with a slight climb. Almost everyone bust the altitude by 400 to 500 feet during the cleanup.

Recommendation for our PCs only:

In tricking the FD I would suggest using FPV and after BUG UP fly the FPV level with the horizon in order to maintain within the 200ft allowance but do not descend below the acceleration altitude. Once cleaned up, and after selection of LVL CHG, MCT etc, then follow the FD for climb.


It should read

Dear Bum buddies and all snakes who joined with us

Since all of us Singa Snakes lack in natural hands on skill of flying, use the following method.......we have no idea about 5degress AOB toward live engine or actual utilization of a general all round scan of instruments.

Oh, and all of you who joined before we killed this airline, you can actually fly so disregard this email.




All I can say is.........what a tosser.

[hongkongfooey]

Ah what the hell, just get to accel alt and hit the " go levers " :confused::ugh::hmm::rolleyes::E:}:}:}:}

[Hoofharted]

Wed 6th May.........HKA flies HKG-HGH with waaaaiiiiit for it.................................8 pax. Now that's a G.A outfit really going places. :D

[hongkongfooey]

Ha !! I can beat that, many a time had more than 1 CC per pax :{

[Capt Vertigo]

Hey guys, stay chill !! :) The Hainanese have enough of "M" muscle to fly this HKA/HKE metal iron empty to keep the newly hired pilots as promised. :D Chinese "loose face" ;)

Keep it up HKA!!

[jandakotcruiser]

What a bunch of losers ? Tell enough lies long enough and loud enough so that fools on pprune will believe you? Or do you think ppruners are really ALL a bunch of nincompoops? Take your purile and infantile !!!!ty gripes somewhere else and let Pprune remain a dignified forum!

[Leaving HKA]

LIES?

Mate.. your obviously SS> Perhaps the Furher himself.

If it were lies, would 67 pilots have left the company in the last 14 months?

I have the senority list right here. All the actual pilots have left or have less than a few months left.

The total amount of crews online at the companies height was 63. They have churned through more crews than I think even the Chinese overlords realize.

Since Jan alone, there are close to 40 pilots who have left (and more leaving this month).

You can disregard ALL comments about Eric being a fagot tosser, or Singaswine have well lubed anus' or the only way they can fly is if Big B throws them into the air @ Starz

The fact remains, by the end of this month over 70 guys have voted with their feet.

There is NO debating that.

[Leaving HKA]

Well lookey here...


(http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=196420)jandakotcruiser (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=196420)

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Arse end of the world
Age: 52
Posts: 5


I was with MAS in the 90's and I do remember the SEP procedures in hijack situations. As I understand it they applied only to Malaysian registered aircrafts. It would really be nice if the M'sian government and MAS come up with some meaningful commemoration for this tragic event
(http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=196420).



Seems I was right. You are one of the SingaSwine.

If your location is , as listed , "in the arse end of the world", then I suspect Eric is wearing a smile on his face and his little nub is erect.
That is your favorite choice of arse isn't it?


GO HOME before you kill somebody

[Hoofharted]

Or do you think ppruners are really ALL a bunch of nincompoops?
No Not at all! Just the idiots running the HKA circus. As previously stated, you can not lie about the FACTS, pilots leaving, TRI/TRE's failing checks and ridiculous load factors are FACTS. Oh yeah, salaries at less than a third of the going rate is also a FACT. :ok:

[Leaving HKA]

Left months ago mate... never looked back (except in fascination..like watching a car wreck.)

[jandakotcruiser]

Leaving; you might have lost in whatever powerplay you had but there is no need to trash the whole bunch of Singapore or SEAsian guys with your puerile attacks.

Nope you got it wrong, I ain't sinagaporean and I have not worked there except for layovers. I was with MAS and I do come from the arse end of the world.

You guys with your unreasonable and hateful view of life do nothing but tarnish the reputation of aviators in this open forum. Go home before I kill somebody.........I don't think so; but you might be soul dead soon with so much hatred , if not by a stroke or cardiac arrest to your physical self.:=

[AAIGUY]

:ugh:

Yawn....


The fact is, attacks aside.. you can't refute Leaving's fact that I and close to 70 overs have resigned from HKA. It was was for two reasons. Lack of Conditions of Service, and exceptionally poor racist managment.

You can't fire 14 of my friends for racial reasons, tell HKE's Ops Mgr he can't hire them, and expect us to stay.

Go ahead refute the facts. You can't.

HKA repeadtly told me that they couldn't pay pilots more as the had no revenue.

KA pays me 3 times as much (I can show you a pay stub. It's actually over 3 times) and makes big profits.

The only reason HKA doesn't have money is inept management.

SO .. this is the last I will post here. (unless I see further lies)

Any pilot reading this thread can feel free to disregard all the attacks, name calling, ect...

But pilots must realize who they will be working for if they join HKA.

[40Deg STH]

AAIG


Well said. i cannot add anymore.


Good luck with the move

[NotHere]

AAIGUY,

Is all true and me too fully agree with those FACTS.........:ok:

All the best mate!!!

[hongkongfooey]

You guys with your unreasonable and hateful view of life do nothing but tarnish the reputation of aviators in this open forum. Go home before I kill somebody.........I don't think so; but you might be soul dead soon with so much hatred , if not by a stroke or cardiac arrest to your physical self.

..............translation prease :ugh:

[MatRempit69]

Hey Jandacort!

:hmm: What`s all this `killing people` ??? := Maintain proffesionalism and be matured..grow up man!! :cool:

The rest of it if its factual lets respect it :ok: and not get emotional or carried away.

Looks like someone is able to hack my post earlier in the south east asia post..and also one sometime ago, wonder.. :( if its the training manager HKA (Capt. RJ St****t ) ?? Lets se if this post is missing again . :} Jangan geng!!

[Sora Bulq]

Hey Mat,

Could you repost RS's original e-mail that you posted?

It has been lost, and now is an appropriate time to revist it. That e-mail was dated from when Ronal McDonal started spinning the story of the SS saviours to the mainland Chinese managers in Hong Kong Airlines.

[Capt Vertigo]

Hi Drool69

"This email was circulated today by the HKA training manager:

Hi Guys,

I noticed the norm during PCs with V1 cut, the procedure of BUG UP for flap clean up does not correspond well with CAD170 requirement of -0 to +200ft allowance in maintaining acceleration altitude while cleaning up the aircraft. I believe those following the standard practise would have failed this section in their PCs. The FD gives a target for acceleration with a slight climb. Almost everyone bust the altitude by 400 to 500 feet during the cleanup.

Recommendation for our PCs only:

In tricking the FD I would suggest using FPV and after BUG UP fly the FPV level with the horizon in order to maintain within the 200ft allowance but do not descend below the acceleration altitude. Once cleaned up, and after selection of LVL CHG, MCT etc, then follow the FD for climb."



:hmm: Is this the same Training Manager 'RS' who's gone in the hide-out after Wuzy's episode at the Stars ?? :suspect: :(

Good luck! Happy landings hopefully..;)

[jandakotcruiser]

Did you guys ever read properly b4 posting? Btw, I do not work for HKA, SIA, HKE, AHK etc and I am nowhere in HKG. I sentence about killing was a response to Leaving HKA's very loud post:

[QUOTE]
Leaving HKAWell lookey here...

Quote:

(http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=196420)Quote:
jandakotcruiser (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=196420)

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Arse end of the world
Age: 52
Posts: 5


I was with MAS in the 90's and I do remember the SEP procedures in hijack situations. As I understand it they applied only to Malaysian registered aircrafts. It would really be nice if the M'sian government and MAS come up with some meaningful commemoration for this tragic event
(http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?u=196420)
.



Seems I was right. You are one of the SingaSwine.

If your location is , as listed , "in the arse end of the world", then I suspect Eric is wearing a smile on his face and his little nub is erect.
That is your favorite choice of arse isn't it?


GO HOME before you kill somebody [End QUOTE]




These foul mouths need to take a break, cool down before they spill their bile. Name calling, painting all Singa people as snakes with a broad brush and using this forum for their petty personal vendetta are all downright boorish and uncouth.

I am not a singaporean but I do have good friends from Singapore and they do not exhibit " snaky " behaviour. However the venom that spewed all over this thread betray the real snakes who used this fora to further their agenda.

I certainly do not agree with HKA's or AHK's management tactics but with such operators, what do you expect. And the fact that for anyone to want to work there or have worked there tells us very much about such individuals:rolleyes:

[Eric Cheng-Kok]

Yes, that is the same RS.

The same guy that took two attempts to get through the CAD TRE course.

It's all starting to make sense lah!

:{

[hongkongfooey]

Heard a rumour the lying :mad:s telling ex Oasis pilots they are getting 747 freighters, but they will have to fly the 737 'til they get here................those guys just crack me up, the 3 stooges are amateurs by comparison :eek::}:}:}

BTW, of the dozens that have left, how many have been paid in accordance with the HK labour ordinance :confused::confused::confused:, anyone, anyone, Bueller :ouch:

I certainly do not agree with HKA's or AHK's management tactics but with such operators, what do you expect
Yes, before we bile spewing, fould mouthed aviators arrived on the scene , it was a great, professional, well paid job, just look what we have turned it into, its all our fault :{:{:{:{:ugh:

[Hassan Bok]

Jandakot,

Stop being nosy and try to police these fellas, mate. Things won't get any more pleasant with their postings. We all know intrinsically what these fellas are and what they are capable of.

[MatRempit69]

Hassan Bok

"Jandakot,

Stop being nosy and try to police these fellas, mate. Things won't get any more pleasant with their postings. "

Well said, Absolutely, can`t say any more.!! :D :ok:

[Living End]

"You can't fire 14 of my friends for racial reasons, tell HKE's Ops Mgr he can't hire them, and expect us to stay".

As one of the 14 on the receiving end, this is exactly how it is and I can't agree more with AAIGUY.

The equation at HKA is really quite simple after managements racial cleansing. This act was the straw that broke the Camels back for most within the airline.

Its simply a case of people having recently left, are leaving/ waiting for start dates or are there simply because they went to great expense to make the move over to Hong Kong and would like to stay within Hing Kong and are waiting for further opportunities within Hong Kong.

It's that simple!!!

As for those who bag others poor opinions of this airline and their management.....well I'd love to see your reaction if the shoe was on the other foot!

[AAIGUY]

Living E,

Best of luck mate.

All the 14, as far as I know have jobs on jets (mostly good ones too)

:)

They can lie as much as they want, but the truth is obvious.

[MatRempit69]

Hi Sora

That post that went missing was a simple one asking this guys to move on and not drag ex-MAS guys from Kimchiland and sandpit into his/thier battles in HKA or AHK against others. Basically remain `professional and matured`and stop hitting own people. := Some of my write up then was in Malaysian language. :cool:

Maintain dignity and credibity of individuals origin, be Singapore, Malaysia or anywhere else proffessional PILOTS, more so desperately wanting to be "management" of a future successful Airline. All the best!! :ok:

Happy Flying!

[Eric Cheng-Kok]

I have just heard that there are more friends of the SS on the way to HKA. They are all direct entry captains.

That should just about finish any hope of upgrade for FOs in HKA. Also, the DECs are all being told that they can expect B747 Freighter commands very soon. Those SS boys can sure spin a line of b******t.

:D

[Mat Sabo]

Jandakot....just don't waste your time on this thread. I know your good intentions, but with these posters and their ilk, it's a lost cause.

[Capt Wally]

Geeez & to think I've started planning about going over to Asia to fly heavy metal. It would take me a year to figure out who's telling the truth here about who. I'd hate to ask what has happened to Asia flying for fear of having to sit in front of this thing to figure out all the responses fro the rest of my natural life!:bored:
I hope you guys can make it work there, for back here in Oz it's falling apart also!:bored:



CW

[pilotinasia]

The fact is, attacks aside.. you can't refute Leaving's fact that I and close to 70 overs have resigned from HKA. It was was for two reasons. Lack of Conditions of Service, and exceptionally poor racist managment.

You can't fire 14 of my friends for racial reasons, tell HKE's Ops Mgr he can't hire them, and expect us to stay.

Go ahead refute the facts. You can't.

HKA repeadtly told me that they couldn't pay pilots more as the had no revenue.

KA pays me 3 times as much (I can show you a pay stub. It's actually over 3 times) and makes big profits.

The only reason HKA doesn't have money is inept management.

SO .. this is the last I will post here. (unless I see further lies)

Any pilot reading this thread can feel free to disregard all the attacks, name calling, ect...

But pilots must realize who they will be working for if they join HKA.

well said AAIGUY :ok:

[Flying Mechanic]

and a really great time to be thinking about getting 400's for cargo! the ar$e has fallen out of the cargo market. Plan your escape because will be the next OASIS.

[SlimShadey]

The fact is, attacks aside.. you can't refute Leaving's fact that I and close to 70 overs have resigned from HKA. It was was for two reasons. Lack of Conditions of Service, and exceptionally poor racist managment.

You can't fire 14 of my friends for racial reasons, tell HKE's Ops Mgr he can't hire them, and expect us to stay.

Go ahead refute the facts. You can't.

I'd be really careful to post something like that with a specific; albeit personal reference; unless you have concrete proof. You dun wanna be messing with George Soros/Hainan Airlines Group in a Court of Law for such slanderous remarks; unless you have Bush behind you.

P.S: Trust me! They can hire and fire at will; no apologies nor reasons needed.

[mythbuster]

Slim,
Nobody is going to be trusting you anytime soon.
Stating the facts has never been slanderous. Have another sip of that Cafe Latte and go back to your desk. You have far too much time on your hands.

[AAIGUY]

Unfortunatly Slim,

All that was written is true.
I have the seniority list on my computer with the the names.

[Geragau]

Dear Jandakot,

The blokes on threads with anything to do with HKG, HKA,AHK,HKE, Air Macau etc are not the paragon of professionalism in aviation. You are wasting your time besides being sucked into some nasty profane name calling and low life mud slinging! Ducking for cover.....incoming.....!!!! buckets ahead!

[akistar]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=315722

An interesting read on SINGAS

[hongkongfooey]

The blokes on threads with anything to do with HKG, HKA,AHK,HKE, Air Macau etc are not the paragon of professionalism in aviation.

that's a big and completely misinformed/arrogant ( arrogant because you think that your part of the world is so professional ? ) call.
So, everybody in Hong Kong ( HKG ) including KA and CX, Air Hong Kong ( not even mentioned here ) and HK airlines and HK express not up to your lofty standards of professionalism eh :confused:
Maybe one could suggest that if you are so professional, you could stick your nose into something you are actually an authority on and/or have any usefull input, good, bad, or indifferent to, rather than just sticking your nose into a thread were your only input is to bag the contributors.
BTW, how long have you or did you work for HKE/HKA ?
didn't think so :D

[Ali Sadikin]

I think he is judging from the quality of the posts on threads on HKE/A, Air Macau etc. Some of the posts do make decent pilots cringe with embarassment!

[hongkongfooey]

Ali, I say again, until you have worked for this outfit you CANNOT begin to fathom the sort of amateur circus we have had to put up with, the lies, deceit, racism, and in most cases just out and out incompetence, it's far worse than most of us have ever experienced in our careers, even going back to the days of flying light aircraft.
A dog is a loyal and loving creature, but see what happens if you stick it in a cage, don't feed it, and start poking sticks at it ..............it WILL bite !

[SlimShadey]

I am beginning to like the animal references in this forum. We have snakes, swines..and now dogs. Supposedly the term "dog" would include bitches too. So tell me which nationality are the dogs and bitches..? What nationality are you, fooey?

[pilotinasia]

who let the dogs out ... woof woof woof ... sounds like a popular song eh ?

[Cool banana]

I am beginning to like the animal references in this forum. We have snakes, swines..and now dogs

Ahh you can add the RAT into the equation too.

Speaking of the Rat any update to what he doing now a days?

[hongkongfooey]

I am beginning to like the animal references in this forum

Yeh, well, every circus has an array of animals ;)

So tell me which nationality are the dogs and bitches..?

Actually, it was a metaphor

What nationality are you, fooey?

No hablar english, senor :}

[HKSINGH]

You guys are a bunch of fools, nothing to do, bitch and bitch.
1. Hongkong is not the place for you. Go back to Aussieland. Too bad if no job for you or Aussieland pay you peanuts.
2. Don't bite the hand of the people who have been nice to you.
3. You guys are cowards and imature.
4. The more you write the worse it is for your countrymen.
5. You guys write or post things about people other than your own. What about GR had a tailstrike on the last flight and ran away to join CX as sim instructor. What about NH who did not get through AEX first time and now suffering in AHK. AHK now being conned by AF.
6. Big advert by CX will hire Oasis staff but did nothing. All show only but no action. Only HKE and HKA actually helped out Oasis pilots and staff. Shame on you Aussies in CX not doing anything to help out - just bitch only.

GO HOME YOU BLOODY !!!!!!!!!!

[40Deg STH]

70 Oasis pilots going to CX. NIL going to HKA, NIL going to HKE.

Please feel free to correct the FACTS, if you have proof.

The first airline to offer help was CX then Jade then several from the M.E.
2 weeks later an offer to fly 744 freighters for HKA on 738 pay. Did you feel the stampede. Considering these guys have 10000 to 17000 hours command on 747's.
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[OFFSET 2R]

40deg south, 6 pilots ex oasis now with HKE !! 4 on course right now.
considering the size of the company, higher percentage than CX.

[OFFSET 2R]

40deg south.
CX offer for FO's on 747 freighter, 49K. HKE 737 FO about the same.
So much for the benevolence of CX

[Hoofharted]

Maybe so...............and I'm sure that the positions were offered purely as a gesture of kindness and goodwill right from the bottom of managements heart. Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that HKA finds themselves short of trained and experienced people now that the "inexperienced" have been stabbed in the back. :ok:

And how long will they stay? It's what's commonly referred to as a "stop gap" measure. (by the way, it's "don't bite the hand that feeds you")

P.S. The only evidence I have seen of cowardice was displayed some time ago in the "star-bar" by some little person who thought he was just a little too big for his boots who then quickly slithered off when put back in his place. :D

[40Deg STH]

So what pay package and lifestyle will they be on in 3 to 4 years..or 10 years. I suggest they will not be there in 1 year.
HKA has never had a reputation for its money or career path.

All the best boys

[Raj Merlion]

HKE/HKA/AHK/Air Macau really deserve these fellas.....garbage collectors masquerading as airmen.:ugh::ugh::ugh: These outfits must really be cesspools to have had such foul mouth imbeciles working for them.

[Major-Domo]

Raj ,
You may well be correct about the "outfits" you refer to. However I suspect that the "fellas" have decided to make use of this forum to expose the said "outfits" for what they really are instead of what they would have naive new recruits believe they are.
Freedom of speech can often lead to some very colourful language, as we are all big boys now most of us can handle it. No matter the retort, when there is a "rat in the kitchen" it will expose itself sooner or later.
Most of us come from countries where we can speak our mind without fear of government retribution and a good public flogging. I fear Raj old chap, you have not been so fortunate.

[Hoofharted]

HKE/HKA/AHK/Air Macau really deserve these fellas.....garbage collectors masquerading as airmenActually garbo's back home make more than twice the money being paid by the afore-mentioned circuses and don't have to put up with a management structure pretending to know what it is doing. (actually I wonder what the plural of circus really is? Circi perhaps?)

[AAIGUY]

Well as I said, I wouldn't have re-engaged this whole nonsense unless LIES arose, and indeed our reptilian friends have been busy spreading the same.

Fact. NH passed his AEX first shot with distinction. The allegations to the contray are complete libal.

BOTH SUBSEQUENT HKA CANDIDATES (MY/SING) WERE REJECTED FROM THE COURSE AND NOT ALLOWED TO EVEN ATTEMPT THE TEST.

FAIL.

Second G.R, DFO gave notice to CX months ago. Allegations he left under dubious circumstances are again false. He left as soon as the writing was spray painted on the wall.



**

Folks reading this thread with no backround.

Understand that ALL the western (AUS, US, CAN, NZ, EUR) pilots came here with the sincere wishes to make this airline a world class situation. Somewhere along the way, the Hainan ownership decided that doing things in this "western" manner was simply too costly.

Too Bad, as my first year @ HKA was fantastic. It pricks me off not to be able to have the career there I could have. It was a "pearlier" of a situation with all the possibilities... UNTIL

All Western Managment, was dismissed or given obvious notice.

Having previous worked briefly at Orient Thai in BKK, and seen how western managment were moved out in place of cheaper , less problematic, management, I , personally, can only predict similiar results as the Phuket incident in years coming.

If you're working elsewhere, you'd be a very poor decision maker to choose to join this company. (unless like many HKA pilots, you come for the rating and a couple of hundred hrs, and join Ryan Air, or other B73NG company....:D )

LASTLY NOTE - MANY POSTERS have 1-5 posts here.. I have a couple of hundred. I am not here to make trouble and hide, I am here only to warn future applicants of making a mistake that will harm their careers and family's.

[hongkongfooey]

Thanks Drools but you're wasting your breath.
Let them have their crappy LITTLE operation, soon any talent they had left will be gone and we will just keep waiting for them to make the front page of the SCMP, and it won't be for the arrival of the 787s,777s,747s,330, or 320s either ;)

[drool69er]

Whats happened SINGH? Realised you are way out of place with your spinless comments? You can't refute the posts on this thread can you?

Here are some other pointers for you and hopefully you don't come back to this forum to spread your lies.

1. The clowns trying to run the little HKA operation ARE from Singapore. FACT.

2. Some of the back door snakes FAILED their checks. FACT.

3. Lots of guys are leaving because HKA is now badly run. FACT.

4. All posts in this forum are from Australians. NOT A FACT. I am NOT an Australian.

Your attempt at fighting the truth is bordering on a racial comment and I wonder why your post is not deleted?

All comments made by others on this forum are based on fact and not in any way a racial issue, moreover a moral issue, but you have tried to turn it that way, and shame on you for doing so.

[Sora Bulq]

Top level management reshuffle happening tomorrow. Oh, by the way, top secret, best not pass this on less the Central Party Council lose face.

Look out for movement with the ex KA gurus.

:cool:

[SlimShadey]

The 14 pilots that were "sacked" were hired over far more experienced applicants.. FACT too!

[AAIGUY]

?

SO because someone has 2500hrs and lots of PIC, they aren't as qualified as a 8000hr (parker pen likely) guy from a dubious backround?

Everyone one of those 14 has a job (better job) at better companies. Many hired by the competition.

Their 'inexperience' was replaced with a 300hr FO who has been trying to check to line for 2 years and keeps failing.. that is who replaced the 14 folks with several 1000 hrs..

[AAIGUY]

By the way..

Another Senior Western FO resigned today...Great Guy with lots of Jet PIC, and well liked.. HKA's loss..

ON a positive note for HKA, there are only about a 1/2 dozen western FO's left. They should have a low cost, low complaint work force in place within a few months.

[Blown Seal]

For those of you who have read your company emails today, I have a question for you:

How can you have any confidence to fly with the person the email was about?

An extremely poor attitude but even more worrying is the lack of standards and situational awareness with regard to tracking on an approach and also on departure below MSA.

If this does not scream out very loudly "CFIT candidate" I do not know what does!:yuk:

[Capt Vertigo]

Hi AAIGUY!


"ON a positive note for HKA, there are only about a 1/2 dozen western FO's left. They should have a low cost, low complaint work force in place within a few months."

This was exactly what the 'SINGAS' wanted and did you not see that on the drawing board when the 'SS' moved in HKA/HKE with their limited experience from AHK.... :ugh::ugh: :{

Happy Flying and safe landings!

[AAIGUY]

yes I did... my qoute was tounge in cheek.. SARCASIM..

[Ali Sadikin]

Great days ahead! New snakes getting rid of older grumpy snakes...fact of life in such fledging outfits.

[SlimShadey]

...eventual nationalisation of Airlines this part of the world.

Mercenaries don't have a speaking right; reap what you can and save for a rainy day while you're here.

[K.Y.J. Lee]

Two gweilo F/Os resigned last week, and three Indonesian pilots were apparently sacked.

We're running a little short of pilots now lah!

:ugh:

[AAIGUY]

One more western FO gave notice today...

[hailer]

Strong rumour amongst the aviation chattering classes in HK that two of the recent ex KA recruits to senior management at HKA/ HKE have "resigned" to spend more time with their families? No idea if this true or whether it augers well for the change to the company attitude to its pilots and operational standards?

As an outsider (albeit a qualified one) may I risk the ire of the clearly agitated HKA pilot force?

Although I fully understand the underlying reasons for the vitriol it is difficult to relate to some of the distasteful racist posts on this site. However it is PPrune -not the local parish magazine. It is difficult to believe that the aggrieved guys are aiming at the right targets - the operational managers can only do what the shareholders instruct them to and the CAD condones (or refuses to acknowledge they know about.)

There is a mechanism for ensuring the CAD are seen to know about safety issues and have to act - it is called MOR and anyone can submit. If on the other hand there is little wrong with the operational standards and this is purely a matter of an industrial dispute, then at least the thread is a great place to vent their spleen! Sadly, I suspect that some of the people posting may not know the difference.

Commercial failure will make the rest irrelevant, hopefully before there is an accident. The Oasis experience makes the point very eloquently that a sympathetic operational management paying above industry salaries with a faulty business model merely hasten the progress to the dole queue.

The bright side is, as the sacked guys proved, a B737-800 rating and some jet hours put you in a far better position to get an interview with a decent operator than turbo prop hours with a third level Aussie carrier.

I hope happier times are ahead - aviation is actually a fun career when balanced over its entirety!

[Major-Domo]

"Aviation is actually a fun career when balanced over it's entirety".

One may say that in retrospect old chap if you have had the benefit of a privileged position in a decent airline in times when management treated its pilots with respect and payed a decent salary etc.. But it certainly does not look like that is going to be the case for pilots starting a career these days with such operators as HKA/HKE. Where there's smoke there's fire.
As for happier times ahead , I would be looking elsewhere for that little gem.

[Alex Mitrokhin]

The two positions that likely soon be vacant are President and CEO of HKA.

I think that these moves will be kept very low key. We can no doubt expect a couple of SS "experts" to fill the vacancies.

The question is, how long will Hainan Airlines allow this circus to continue in its present form.

:rolleyes:

[Capt Vertigo]

:hmm: Does not matter ...Alex :ugh:

"make the hay while the sun shines" !!!

Good Luck.

[HKSINGH]

Hey Drool69er No Point Arguing. All About You Guys Have Been Said And Are Facts. Damage Has Been Done So No Need To Justify Or Make Excuses.

[ShotOver]

Ok, who read the recent HKA emails today? Maybe the SS guy has been doing this for sometime, and I just didn't notice it. But.........

One of our new, Wuzzy, commander with out a title guy, but makes all the decisions, signs his emails as Capt. Hmmm, I thought that you at least had to be a qualified pilot with an organization, let alone a Captain with an organization to claim that one. Was he recently trained, and assigned to the line?

Maybe it goes along with logging 4-engine jet PIC time. If it is considered 'proper' to title yourself as Captain just because at some point in your past you've been a captain, then hey.....I guess we are all captains!

Life's looking up already! Pay soon to follow!

[NotHere]

Maybe it goes along with logging 4-engine jet PIC time. If it is considered 'proper' to title yourself as Captain just because at some point in your past you've been a captain, then hey.....I guess we are all captains!


In fact that is what Wuzzy n the rest of SS are thinking n boasting bout............:yuk:

Happy Landings!!!

[Eric Cheng-Kok]

The two boys who insist of the title "Captain" have less than a year each of Airline command time each. In any other airline they would be regarded as "Commanders in nappies".

"Mdm. Wu-Wu" hasn't qualified as a Captain on the B737, and "Little Dickie's" capabilities were demonstrated on the AEX course that he failed. Speak to some of the FOs who fly with him for more information.

If you need to label yourself as "Captain", I would suggest that it says more about "appendage envy" than anything else.

:D

[ShotOver]

Maybe in reality they were boat captains.....:confused:

[LeanRod737]

Don't you mean Long Win Bus Co. or Citybus Captains

[Sora Bulq]

This is the same "Little Dickie" who is running around saying that Cathay Pacific is finished. HKA is set to take over as the major carrier out of HKG.

Whatever he is on, it is damn good stuff! Must be all the chili in the food I suppose.

:mad:

[ShotOver]

Too funny. Cathay is still saying "HKA/HKE who?"

I think that 7 months ago, Cathay might have been thinking about what impact HKA could make in the future. But Oasis was a bigger threat.

Now Oasis is driven out of business, and they can concentrate on HKA. But now they're thinking...."Why worry, they'll take care of themselves".

The only fear they have from HKA is of a mid-air! Oh, but wait, all of the time sleeping in the bunk of a 747, wide-body, international operations, etc, etc, etc should preclude problems with basic airmanship. After all, "I'm a Captain!"

[drool69er]

It is innevitable that those snake clowns will put a smoking hole in the ground somewhere. With incident reports and MOR's being filed on average of once a week at the incompetent Captains f&ck ups, you can see it coming as bright as the sun.

These guys can't even make standard radio calls.

I feel for the F/O's having to work twice as hard to save these guys from killing alot of people.

[SlimShadey]

Yes, and we need the Red White and Blue "Captain America" FOs to come save the day.

:=

[AAIGUY]

If it wasn't for the Western pilots @ HKA, then it's very likely there would have been a crash. Fortunatly, as they carry very few passengers, chances are fatalites would be minimal.:}

As another group of western pilots are preparing to leave, I think we may get to witness this sooner rather than later.

With regard to CX/KA going down, that is simply laughable. We get weekly communication as to load factor/ revenue, and I am happy to say we seem to make a lot of money.

HKA / Hainan was losing 10's of millions a month when I was there (and that was when oil was $90 a barrel, I can't imagine the loss now) (coupled with the fact that they keep paying for courses our Singhasnake friends keep failing).

[drool69er]

Red white and blue Captain America???

Dude, you're lonley, stop reading your comic books and dribbling on your PSP. Us real boys are having a grown up conversation.

AAIGuy is right, they've spent thousands of US$ on retraining those self appointed trainers. They've got alot to answer for....especially when families lifestyles are involved when it all finally all goes tits up coz insurance company's won't cover them anymore due to excessive incidents.

Hainan could've avoided all this by just getn rid of these guys, and hire some real pilots.

[Sora Bulq]

HKA/HKEs latest line is that they are telling prospective new hires that they will have the opportunity to go on to 747 freighters. Yes, I know, we have heard all that hot air before, 777s, A330s happening, then not happening. But it is interesting that they made a presentation to the HKCAD recently that proposed wet leasing 747s, so, even if t does happen, there won't be any opportunities for the pilots already there.

If the two airlines are losing more than HKD$20 mil per month now, wait till they start operating widebodies (if it ever does happen, personally I think that there is a better chance that the Dalai Lama will be guest of honour at the Beijing Olympics). :}

[Leaving HKA]

With the lack of pay cheques it would seem no one will be flying anything very soon.