Emirates salary and schedule, realistically

[kass]

Whats up everyones hope all is well, I was hoping i could get some info on FO
salary and schedules for emirates airlines. Just want to make sure it's worth it. thanks

[Shaman]

There was a thread about the average take home pay for Captains at Emirates but for the life of me I can't find it. Anyone remember the thread (and give the url)?

[schismatic]

There are many threads on the subject.


F/O starting salary has decreased steadily for the past 7 years when measured against other currencies.
Some Exchange Rate Protection (ERP) may be built in but it depends on where you come from. In any case it washes out with time. Pound based ERP has halved in the past couple of months for instance. The max you can possibly get is 7.5% of basic. (which is unlikely)
The salary structure is moving to greater amounts based on flying pay while basic salary remains largely static in Dirhams (Decreasing in most other currencies). Leave and sickness will reduce you takehome pay by a greater proportion each year.
Inflation is wild in the UAE. 36% reported by local papers since beginning of this year. 9.2% over 2007
Bonus, ERP, Provident Fund are all based on the basic salary and not on Flying Pay. Therefore they have and will continue to reduce rapidly in real terms over the years ahead.
The buying power of an EK F/O salary has approximately halved in the last decade.
EK recruitment website figures, while accurate, hide many facts that could cost you dearly.
My advice: Think VERY CAREFULLY. Dubai is expensive with many hidden costs. Saving capacity of an EK F/O is basically zero unless he/she lives like a hermit. If you have a family, you need external savings or the wife must work. Leave will be miserable as you will face a reduced pay packet on your return and will probably pay for the holiday for the rest of the year....

[Shaman]

Thanks very much for the information but what I am trying to find out is how much a CAPTAIN can expect to make gross.

Would any captain be kind enough to mention how much he earnt in the last convenient 12 month period?

[GMDS]

You would be looking at roughly 82000$ basic pay, 9300$ flight pay and a (variable) bonus of appr. 8500$.
Total of a approximation of 100000$.
This will be a constant, unfortunately, as the inflation outruns the basic + (eventual) yearly increment by a factor of 2, the flightpay will most probably be fully covered and the bonus (if any) is strung to the basic.

[Shaman]

GMDS,

Thanks for the answer. Is this 100k US$ the gross for a captain or an FO? If the former it seems extremely low - (about 50kSTG). It must be the gross for an FO surely?

[BigGeordie]

Remember to factor in the company provided accommodation, or add on the "utility allowance" of about 11,800 Dhs a month.

[GMDS]

No mate, it's for a skipper around 1st or 2nd year. But consider it's tax-free and housing provided. Still, it's by no means industry leading, it's probably fair to average. You can live on it, but don't count on upping anything like a pension fund. On top of that it is fast eroding, because the dish-dashs couldn't care less about inflation. They get it compensated with a local bonus, just as govt employees(70%), so for them it's negligable. The expats however bear the brunt.
If you count on getting a wb rating on modern equippment, it's fine, you'll leave after 3 years and 2000h. If you plan to stay and ie. have your kid completing some PYP or MYP, then the last few years will get extremely tight. Basically you will then fork out of your savings to complete your stay. Now if you have a nice contract in spe when leaving, go for it. But i wouldn't count on a huge choice in the mid term, as aviation has always been cyclic. The next downturn is around the corner. Once it hits us, believe me, EK will not wait when jobs get a little scarce and lower the package extensively, to their liking , because you will be stuck with them.

If I had to consider moving again, with what i know now, i would realise that my savings were insufficient and definitely not meant to subsidise the greedy local bunch. :yuk:

That's the uncomforable truth.

[menard]

On average, between North America, Europe, Asia, Australia, housing is worth about 2000$ a month.

If I was living someplace where renting a villa was 2 million dollars a year (even a crap one), I would not consider this salary.

Might as well include schooling! Oh, want a pay raise, make another kid! The more the kids, the more the schooling allowance!

The bottom line is the Salary, the rest is relative.

[Shaman]

Thanks guys. For me, the compensation package does not compensate enough for living away from my home.

Thanks for taking the trouble to respond.

[Cityliner]

drifting a bit from the topic!
Does any of you Guys at EK still have a place at "home" and needs to pay mortgage for it?
What does a UAE bank in average charge for a money transfer to a european Bank account of lets say 7000 to 9000Dhs?
Or did you transfer all your financial things to a local UAE Bank?
Any advice is highly appreciated!

[ERLIN 3]

I'm wondering the same thing about having an additional mortgage overseas to pay. And as far as the transfer fees for funds, what does that usually run?

If I am offered the job, I will be moving to Dubai with my wife and three children. Will I be able to make it on EK FO salary alone?

All of a sudden a little bit of uncertainty is beginning to creep into the perfect picture that I imagined just a few weeks ago!

[A320PLT]

I'm feeling the same way you are. I'm thinking $70K U.S. to start tax free with housing and utilities covered what are theses hidden expenses? I do eat a lot but damn! Not that much:}

A320

[tbaylx]

Lots oguys are sending $$ back home to pay for various stuff. It depends on who you use to send the money back home, but figure on 75-150 dirhams/transaction to send stuff back.

AS for cost of living, depends on what you do. Groceries are damn expensive here and getting worse...if you have a modest lifestyle and keep the going out, boats, TV's to something reasonable you can get by on an F/O salary, with 3 kids it becomes harder with school fees, activities etc. You'd have to ask someone with a bigger family than me :)

I manage to pay a few bills off each month, but am not putting alot away as an F/O.

[A320PLT]

When you say groceries are expensive in what terms are you refering? Eggs $5 bucks a dozen US? If ever there were an incentive for me to lose weight the cost of food would be one!! I don't see getting a boat but I do like TV. If I can get US programing then it's slingbox pro and good highspeed internet for me. One son still school age but it's my understanding that school is covered or atleast supposed to be!!.

Thanks Bro for the info

A320

[GMDS]

All of a sudden a little bit of uncertainty is beginning to creep into the perfect picture that I imagined just a few weeks ago!


Guys, some FOs point out that they get by with their salary. But consider the trend!!!!!
If it is barely enough to get by now, the erosion of the salary, or buying power/send home power, whatever you call it, has eroded dramatically the last four years. According to some studies by 70%!
This means you need a good fat layer in your lifestyle or bank account until you get your upgrade. And this exercise will be expected to take five years plus, if the attrition rate does not go up dramatically. And maybe a stagnation will hit in and it will even take longer.

Bear this in mind. FO in Dubai is survivable, but not desirable, believe me.

[A320PLT]

Iguess I'm still stuck on what is costing so much?? Here at. Home I have to pay mortgage,utilities, insurance,food, car note and gas. Now my biggest expenses are mortgage and utilities which is my understanding that EK takes care of. So I still have food, insurance car note and gas. How much is it going to cost me for my 8yr to play scoccer opps I mean football?

[GMDS]

A320PLT

Look, first the newbees ask how expensive it might be in the sandpit. Then they get a few silly answers and a few reasonable ones. One or two say it's ok, most others warn you that it took out more of their pockets than they initially figuered. After these answers there is the ever coming back scepticism and rhethorical "how do you manage not making money in this paradise??".
You will not get a answer to this, it's close to an insult like you guys think we're financial morons. So, come down and find out yourselves. I'm not mad at you, but if you want an oppinion, take it as such, analyse it and make your decision. But being so far away right now, don't smartass our contributions. We're merely trying to pass on experience we didn't anticipate ourselves in the first place.

Good luck at the interview

GMDS

[A320PLT]

Here is some info that I was able to gather in rather short order guys, hope this helps a little more.

The overall cost of living in Dubai is similar to that in most European countries, if you’re living in the style of the average western expatriate.


But the general lack of taxation has a significant impact on the cost of certain items, e.g. cars. On the other hand, the cost of accommodation is sometimes high, as is that of certain food items, particularly imported foods. If you buy internationally recognised branded foods and household goods, you might pay higher prices than in your home country, but there are usually plenty of cheaper locally and regionally produced alternatives that are of excellent quality. Clothing can also be expensive if you favour designer labels – this isn’t peculiar to Dubai – although there’s little need for winter clothing.

The price of wines and spirits, where these are permitted, is slightly lower than in the UK but higher than average European prices. Electronic goods, such as televisions, hi-fis, DVD players, photographic equipment and computer hardware and software, are generally less expensive than in Europe, mainly because of lower import duties.

Utilities, such as electricity, water and gas, are subsidised to some extent by the region’s governments, which own the services (except for bottled gas supplies) in order to provide inexpensive electricity and water, mainly for the benefit of the local population. Utilities are therefore cheaper than in most European countries. However, at the height of summer, air-conditioning costs will escalate, rather as the cost of heating increases in winter in colder climates. Newcomers sometimes make the expensive mistake of keeping their air-conditioning on even when they’re out, but this is unnecessary, as air-conditioning systems reduce the temperature in your accommodation quickly when activated on your return home.

You should also allow for the cost of international telephone calls, although these are kept low by Dubai’s government, who wants to encourage international business and investment in the region.

Your cost of living will obviously depend on your lifestyle. When you’re negotiating a work contract, it’s usual for your prospective employer to produce detailed cost of living figures for his country, which are useful in helping you to decide whether the proposed job is financially attractive or not. Average monthly major expenses for a single person, couple and family with two children are shown below (numbers in brackets relate to the notes following the table).

Monthly Costs ($/£)

Item
Single
Couple
Couple with 2 Children

Housing (1)
900/600
1,050/700
1,200/800

Food (2)
450/300
750/500
1,050/700

Utilities (3)
225/150
300/200
450/300

Leisure (4)
450/300
450/300
600/400

Transport (5)
75/50
150/100
150/100

Insurance (6)
100/65
150/100
225/150

Clothing (7)
150/100
300/200
450/300

Totals
2,350/1,565
3,150/2,100
4,125/2,750


Rental costs for a one-bedroom apartment in a modern block, probably unfurnished, a two-bedroom apartment in a similar block and a two or three-bedroom apartment or a modest villa. Apartments might have air-conditioning included in the rent. Satellite television is probably provided but is unlikely to include all channels. A swimming pool and/or gym are usually provided.
Doesn’t include luxury food items or alcohol.
Includes electricity (and air-conditioning), water (and usually sewage if charged in conjunction with the water, as is normal) and an allowance for telephone charges.
Includes entertainment, dining out, sports, newspapers and magazines but not holidays (air fares are often included in work contract terms).
Includes running costs for an average family car plus third party insurance, petrol, servicing and repairs, but excludes depreciation and credit purchase costs.
Includes private health, travel, car and contents insurance. Note that property is rented, so building insurance is usually unnecessary.
Lots of clothing is unnecessary in the region’s hot climate. Office wear for men is a shirt and tie, except for formal occasions.

[fjordviking]

Read what GMDS posted one more time. His posts in this thread are very accurate.
I did work for EK 2003-2007 3 1/2 years. My family and myself leaving
Dubai had nothing to do with being upset with the company or delayed command due to DECs etc. We had to leave due to one of my children getting seriously ill and she could not get the proper follow up in Dubai(UAE).

I had 3 children in school in Dubai, they had 2 activities each after school(not horse riding, could not afford that). 1 car in the family, no fancy vacations, only ALT back home. We had a lot of camping trips in the mountains and the desert, both in the UAE and Oman, by the way our fondest memories of the place by far. The only expense for those trips were the initial purchase of the camping gear and whatever gas we used. Took the family out for dinner once or twice a month, and the wife once a week for lunch. We did not have a live-in-maid either. By no means a lavish lifestyle.

I did not manage to save anything, except what I got from the provident fund when I left USD 25.000 approx. When taking into account the moving cost I probably ended up break even. This was all on FO salary.

Different game when you get the upgrade, or if you are here with no children. But I find it amusing that you still believe in the "big pot of gold at the end of the rainbow" story.

Good luck to you whatever you decide, but I have a feeling that you will get a brutal reality check once the novelty of the shiny jets and the facade of Dubai wears off.

Fjordviking.

[uplock]

A320PLT Your information regarding housing rental prices is outdated and incorrect. It does NOT come close to what rent is being charged . Check out the link (http://archive.gulfnews.com/indepth/costofliving/) here Gulf News Paper in depth cost of living links for more information where Dubai residents complain about a 36% hike in basic commodities and other day to day issues.

A search on todays paper Arabian Rancheshere (http://www.gnads4u.com/search.html?t=properties&keywords=arabian+ranches&pub=D&ct=RXC-PR-TL-V)
shows prices for a 3 bedroom Villa 160K(43,600 US $yr or 3,630 US $ month) to 195K( 53,130 US $ yr 4,427 US $ Month)

A 4 bedroom Villa(similar to EK supplied) 300K to 320K.(87190 US $ Annual thats 7,265 US $ a month.Prices do not include Utilities (water and electricity or Tax that must be paid to Dubai Municipality )

Other information is outdated , local Newspapers on line will give you a more accurate.

[A320PLT]

Well based on that and what many many others have said it is getting very hard for me to justify leaving a major US carrier for this. I was also wondering why so many would turn down the job if it were really that great.

You made an extremely important point concerning the health and welfare of your child and that would be a deal breaker.

Thanks all.

[BigGeordie]

Have a look at http://www.grapeshisha.com and especially the cost of living spreadsheet for a reality check on what stuff really costs out here.

I would suggest that when/if you come for the interview you take a couple of extra days holiday at the end just to have a good look around the grocery shops, electrical shops and even car dealers to get a better idea of what stuff costs. Then remember that whatever it costs today it will probably cost 20% more next year and your salary will have gone up by about half that. Repeat that for the 5 years until you get a command and decide if you can afford to live here or not.

You can save some money on an F/Os salary if you are careful but you probably won't save anything for the first couple of years because of the start up costs (shipping stuff from home, buying a car, electrical stuff (if you are coming from the USA you will need to replace everything you own with a plug on it), a few bits of furniture and so on).

[disconnected]

Taking a job in the UAE without having done your homework on cost of living, realistic takehome pay and previous year's trends would be pure folly.

New joiners look carefully before leaping. It could be an expensive mistake.

[thehulk]

I have been reading these posts with interest. Thanks to all respondees on the conditions, especially as it relates to the $ figures. If I am offered the job and decide to take it, I was thinking of shipping my SUV (sport utility vehicle) from the States over to Dubai. This would help alleviate what seems like the very high prices of vehicles in Dubai. It is already paid off. Can anyone say what my importation duties, taxes, charges would be ? Has anyone shipped a car or truck from the US over to Dubai ?
Or can anyone say if my SUV will run ok there, ( maybe your vehicles have bigger cooling systems, or bigger air conditioning systems to cope with the temp's in the summer months ) Or do you think it would be wiser to sell my SUV here first and just buy a new or good used one there ? What are the prices like ? I know EK gives a interest free loan, but is that enough
to cover a vehicle ? Also, mine already has the kids car seats installed, which is reason enough to ship it from home.:)
Thanks allot guys for responding !

[disconnected]

If whether or not to ship an SUV is a major issue in your list of priorities on coming to the UAE then you have certainly misunderstood the situation.

My friend, you need to gather a lot more information on Dubai, that is clear.

For the record, I wouldn't bother shipping a vehicle to Dubai unless it had some unique quality you required.

[BYMONEK]

Perhaps something else worth a mention. If you do manage to save in your initial 3-4 years, where will those savings go? Unless you're currently in dollars, sending money 'home' each month has been crippling as poor exchange rates and transfer costs eat into what little money that's left. Alternatively, you could save it here. HSBC were paying 6% 3 months ago before they reduced it to 4% overnight. From the 15th of this month it dropped again to 2.75%. They havn't changed the interest rate for mortgages so those with property will still be paying 7.5% or more. That gives you some idea of how things work around here. And with inflation over 10% (excluding housing), you wonder what's the point of saving anyway! :sad:

I'm not normally negative on this forum but I strongly recommend you think long and hard before coming to EK or the Gulf for that matter. I've recently advised a friend against coming here because I know he is better off staying with his current Airline.

Sadly, I would not have given that same advice 2 years ago.

BYMONEK

[GuessWhat]

Amen, or whatever its called.....

[bogeydope]

Hulk,

If I were you I would ship the car from the States! New cars here are about the same price as there but used cars are much more expensive!!

You pay 5% on the value of the car so get a printout of KBB value and bring that along. Any shipper can advise you on the shipping cost, even with this cost you will be better off with your car from home......

[thehulk]

Bogeydope,

Thanks alot for the info. I did notice on the used car websites there in Dubai that the vehicles did seem very expensive ! Do the authorities there require you to modify your shipped vehicle in any way ? Thanks again ! :ok:

[Internationalpilot]

It is so funny to see this people's bigger concern is how to ship their car...
Makes me laugh....
Just stay away from this place..you will not like it!! Want to bet?
Moving to Dubai with three kids? How will you survive on a F/O salary?
If you have a job, if you are not desperate...stay where you are..!!
Ohhh... may be you wanna play with the big toy?
Grow up!