Dannatt tells troops to prepare for death.

[Al R]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=488264&in_page_id=1770

The head of the British Army has said soldiers need better spiritual preparation for dying in action. General Sir Richard Dannatt said Christian leaders and chaplains in the Army needed to equip soldiers for the spirituality issues involved in going to war. "In my business, asking people to risk their lives is part of the job... but to do so without giving them a chance to understand that there is a life after death is something of a betrayal," he said.

Sir Richard, Chief of the General Staff, made his comments at an evangelical Christian conference in Swanwick, Derbyshire. As an outspoken evangelical Anglican Christian himself, he said he saw it as incumbent on him in his role to include a spiritual dimension when preparing soldiers for war.

[South Bound]

Shame, upmost respect for him, why do people feel the need to bring personal religious beliefs into the discussion.


"I think there is very much an obligation on... a Christian leader to include a spiritual dimension into his people's preparations for operations and the general conduct of their lives," he said


Yep, but please keep your Christian views to your openly Christian subordinates.

Personal view reflecting my personal belief that religion should be kept out of my face. Genuine apologies if you don't agree.

[Al R]

I'm sure that devout Muslims in uniform will be pondering his words thoughtfully.

[Tigs2]

so what is he going to tell the young soldier?? Die in battle and you will have 24 english virgins in heaven and an infinite resovoir of Stella and NewcastleBrown!!

(are there 24 english virgins?):confused:

[Wader2]

Haig was also deeply religious.

He confided in his war diaries that he was unaware of God's grand plan for the war but had the utmost faith that it would be revealed to him in the fullness of time.

[Gainesy]

He'd be better off making sure the troops are better equpped thus obviating the need to be spiritually equipped

[Training Risky]

Maybe the good General is trusting in God to deliver us from evil, because no other bu99er in HMG is going to...:(

[Fg Off Max Stout]

I believe it was Gen Patten who said: "It's not about being prepared to die for your country. It's about making sure some other poor son of a bitch dies for his country".

Apologies if the quote is not verbatim.

[Avitor]

No advice for 10 Downing St. then, along the lines of repentance?

[OHP 15M]

Does this mean that we'll all have to attend a compulsory Annual Death Preparation Training course (ADPT) ? This course could involve a séance session where recently deceased servicemen present lectures on the afterlife and provide feedback on the efficacy of the ADPT training objectives. :E

[TheStrawMan]

Older men declare war. But it is the youth that must fight and die.

[Fareastdriver]

Politicians start wars, Generals stop them. In most of the wars in the last two thousand years one God has been on both sides. "Death to the unbeliever" has been the battle cry for centuries and it still goes on. How many millions have died because of what could be regarded as a myth.

[Faithless]

Sir,..........Please :=: :hmm:

[Two's in]

Remember an RC Padre hoding a field mass after the GW1 range days, saying the Iraqis had died because the Big G was on our side, and not theirs. It just confirmed all my worst suspicions about mixing live ammunition with professional illusionists.

[Fg Off Max Stout]

the Iraqis had died because the Big G was on our side, and not theirs.

Ironic, since my limited understanding of theology suggests that Allah, Christian God and Jewish God are all one and the same person (although he's actually Roman Catholic).

[Airborne Aircrew]

I'm afraid that I lose all respect for any man the moment he tries to push religious belief upon me... whether it matches mine or not... :*

[Pureteenlard]

although he's actually Roman Catholic

No she's not . . .

[Flyingblind]

oh yes he is!

[Thud_and_Blunder]

...Looks like I chose the right month to get around to reading "The God Delusion" by that nice Dr Dawkins. Can't wait to hear what he has to say about the General, or "Christian Warriors" in - er - general.

[Al R]

Some may have heard of Frank Collins.

Frank was 22 SAS who was actively involved with Op Nimrod.

Frank found God, and after a period of juggling both balls in the air, left the army. I was lucky enough to hear a sermon by him somewhere sandyside. He had a block of wood in front of him, and asked for a volunteer to step forward. He asked the young Tom to place his hand, fingers splayed, on the block of wood before telling him that he would blindfold his eyes and swing down with a machette and using his skill, ensure that the blade fell between the lad's fingers. He asked if the lad was ok with that, and the start struc lad nodded gleefully. Who wouldn't? The chance to have a finger chopped off by this legend??!! Wow!! WHAT a tale to tell!

Frank looked him in the eye and said; 'Don't be a fool. The only person you need to have that much faith in son, is God' (in essence, he dressed it up in that way that padres do of course). There was quiet.. not an uncomfortable silence.. just an extended period when we all just stood there, and thought. The lad stepped back, and we all went away, unsure of what we had just heard and saw. I think back to that often, and I genuinely, apply it to many things. It doesn't always take precedence in what I do, but its there. I was honoured to do Arctic training with him, night skiing, snowholing and even was with him when one night, 20 of us decided to do the Lillihammer run (he did it in Bishop's Cassock and rig). He said faith would get him through, although I'm inclined to think it was a good slug beforehand. I don't particularly care what Dannatt said, but at least Collins had faith enough to put his money where his mouth was. Dannatt is paid to command the military, not save it's collective soul.

Frank Collins killed himself a few years back, by gassing himself in the garage of his Hereford home. Life seemed to have got too much for him.. he was a troubled man, but kind, funny, engaging and wise and I hope he's at peace. If you get a chance to read 'Baptism of Fire', his book, then do so. I imagine it'll be more insightful than Dannatt's speech (I don't mind Dannatt, for the record).

[Zero feet, decending]

"He'd be better off making sure the troops are better equpped thus obviating the need to be spiritually equipped"

Amen to that!:D

I speak as the father of a soldier serving in Camp B..

[fawkes]

Dannat shows himself as an honest man again. A rare quality in a senior commander. I do not think he is peddling his own credo (it wasa Christian audience after all). Is he saying more than Shakespeare puts in the mouth of King Henry V before battle? (Act IV Sc 1):

"Every
subject's duty is the king's; but every subject's
soul is his own. Therefore should every soldier in
the wars do as every sick man in his bed, wash every
mote out of his conscience: and dying so, death
is to him advantage; or not dying, the time was
blessedly lost wherein such preparation was gained:
and in him that escapes, it were not sin to think
that, making God so free an offer, He let him
outlive that day to see His greatness and to teach
others how they should prepare."

The Forces have always espoused PPPPP: doesn't that go for our final journey too? It is not necessarily even about absolution or making peace with a personal deity (or one's relatives!). I have seen that those families suffer the most where a person dies who has made no will and given no indication of what obsequies he or she would have liked.

Whether of any faith or none, my thoughts are with colleagues in danger by land sea and air, wishing them safety, comradeship and hearts at peace, whatever befalls them.

[South Bound]

Fawkes, agree to an extent that we should ensure our people are prepared for the practical things (wills and insurance included), but the spiritual side is up to the individual....

[22/7 Master]

I thing CGS has realised that the pay, conditions and allowances are now so shocking that he must use his convictions to say ' you will get your reward in heaven chaps '.

So fight for God then, that'll make it a Crusade. I'm sure his comments will go along way to placate the Muslim communities view on 'The War Against Terror' (interesting acronym).

[TMJ]

My reaction to some of the responses here was going to be, "Oh, for God's sake..." until I realised that might be misinterpreted in the context.

However, it strikes me as more than somewhat off that people are laying into the senior officer who everyone seemed to agree is doing his best to get the best deal going for the troops. "Concentrate on preparing them physically"? Does anyone doubt the general isn't doing his all on that front? I'm sure he would be saying the same thing if every soldier had £1,000,000 of protective kit and was being paid the same as a cabinet minister, so snide comments about trying to distract people from pay and conditions are entirely out of order and say more about the commenter than the general.