They go up...down....spinning around....

[GPMG]

Any dark blue helicopter pilots have a view of what caused this? Looked to my untrained to be over compensation for wind or the ships movements although I'm probably talking out of my hat.

Damn lucky escape though and I bet that the guy praying at the side platform had a few stiff drinks after.

http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2007/greenpeace-chopper-takeoff-p1.php

[rusty_y2k2]

While I can't actually make a strap itself out in the video, it says below it:

"This is a Turbine Enstrom Helicopter on the Heli Pad of a Greenpeace ship some where off the coast of Ireland. One of the deck straps has not been released correctly, with what was very nearly disastrous consequence. "

If you look closely you can see the guy on the front port side of the heli points to something and the guy runs out to the starboard rear side trying to grasp at something just before and as it takes off. As such, Looks very much to me like the description is spot on....

It says pilot skill saved it but in my opinion the pilot shouldn't have taken off without knowing where the ground crew were, let alone before getting the all clear from them. What's the old saying, "the superior pilot uses his superior knowledge to prevent him from having to use his superior skills" or something to that effect!

[Lafyar Cokov]

Typical of these large organisations - using helicopters without thinking of the environmental damage they cause!!!

[Talking Radalt]

"This is a Turbine Enstrom Helicopter on the Heli Pad of a Greenpeace ship some where off the coast of Ireland. One of the deck straps has not been released correctly, with what was very nearly disastrous consequence. "

Really? It seems to leap quite convincingly in to the air with no obvious signs of being attached to anything! The full 360 rotation shows nothing attached anywhere and the aircraft clearly rotates arond the centre of the disk. If it was still attached somewhere surely it'd rotate around the point of attachment?
Looks like a case of the controls not being fully covered and the thing making a bid for freedom. That said, the sea state looks a bit lively, maybe a gust under the disk? What's not clear is if the tail rotor failed before or after the loss of control as it can be seen twitching slightly before things got interesting. Wonder if that was contributary or resultant?

[rusty_y2k2]

you can definately see the guy trying to undo something at the rear corner just as it lifts off though... the individual strap might have been long enough (especially if loosened by the ground crew chap) to allow the heli to move a small distance before becoming taught.

I imagine it snagged and then popped loose, hence why the heli seems free afterwards, but not until it had already halted it's ascent which then caused a tail strike (in slow mo you can actually see the blade stop on the second touch) resulting in the spinning movement.

[sharmine]

It looks to me like the first guy noticed the aft opposite lashing was still attached so his oppo went to release it. It then looks like the pilot tried to apply a take off force slightly lifting the rear of the skid which applied a forward force. Then when the second guy actually released it the helo lurched forward and the pilot realising he would hit the structure hauled back on the stick causing a tail down pitch which caused the tail rotor to strike the deck shearing the tail rotor drive. Then it simply spun due to lack of anti torque tail rotor force and very luckilly came to rest.

Not very good piloting skills when you consider he tried to take off with someone to the rear of the aircraft and extremely lucky not to kill the deck crew or go over the side himself.:ugh:

S

[Roguedent]

Once you've seen the video, check out the game ' Overkill Apache' Really addictive!!. Its on the same website:ok:

[talk_shy_tall_knight]

Have those things got any kind of AFCS?

If so and it was engaged whilst on deck...blah...speculation...Chinook/Ark Royal etc. Just thinking out loud.

[vecvechookattack]

It is entirely a military subject seeing as the military are the experts at deck oerations.

There are 4 Nylon lashings attached to the aircraft. But only 2 lashing numbers, so each guy has to remove 2 lashings. As the guy on the Port side moves aft, the Port Aft lashing comes off. The guy on the starboard side can't count or hasn't been briefed on how many lashings he has to remove as he only removes one (The Stbd Fwd one). His oppo who is busy trying to retrieve the wayward lashing on the Port side notices that his winger has failed to remove the Stbd Aft lashing and waves at it / him. Noticing his error he then rushes under the disc to recover it. At that precise moment and for reasons I cannot understand the aircraft lifts upwards and starts a forward transition.... The pilot clearly alarmed attempts to recover by hauling back on the cyclic only to dink the Tail rotor. So the aircraft is now about 5' above the deck with a lot of nose up and a TR failure.... Certain catastophe looming. However, by pure luck, the pilot dumps the collective and the aircraft lands onto the netting and comes to a stop. Meanwhile, Mr Forgetful on the Stbd side has taken cover and again by pure luck the aircrafts Tail rotor (now slowing down) misses his head by inches. Can't for the life of me understand why the aircraft lifted and transitioned forward, particularly when one of the lashings was still attached. The world experts at deck operations also attach 4 lashings but following an accident in the 1960's when an aircraft took off with a lashing attached and ended up in the mortar well we now always have one person per lashing. The 4 guys will walk under the disc together, remove their appropriate lashing and then walk out of the disc together. Once clear of the disc they then raise their particular lashing in the air whilst the aircrew count the number of lashings. Only when the aircrew have seen 4 lashings wil they start the take off process.....engaging the AFCS whilst on deck

[jEtGuiDeR]

No Samurai, it's not directly related to the Military, but I believe GPMG asked for the opinion from any Navy pilots out there!!
Also, mixing a cargo net and skids isn't the best idea in the world IMHO :eek:

[PlasticCabDriver]

Perhaps this way:

The pilot applies collective in the usual way, then applies forward cyclic to counter a unusual nose up movement (caused by the back still being strapped down) that was starting to build, but at the same time as the port deckhand finally releases the strap. Freed of the restriction aft, the foward cyclic movement takes effect and the aircraft lurches forward. The rest can be seen.

[Gingerbread Man]

http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2006/helicopter-landing-p1.php?vid=5793

What about this one? Came up after that one finished, but I can't work out why it crashes. The spinning implies he clonked the tail rotor but the angle when he touches down doesn't look that severe. Would be nice if they'd got the whole a/c in shot :rolleyes: .

Ginger ;)

[Saintsman]

I'm a little surprised that the crew walked under the rotor blades as they were shutting down. It only takes a gust of wind to lose your head. Basic safety to wait I would have thought.

[fantaman]

Not really a military subject is it.
Although not a military subject, a video like this could prove to be very useful to the forces. In particular, the RAF and Navy flying from the decks of ships. Perhaps it could have its uses as a training video, showing how if the correct procedures are not followed, someone could quite easily be killed. One for the station/squadron flight safety officers me thinks!

[fantaman]

As an aside, I notice the helicopter (N480KP) doesn't actually belong to Greenpeace. It actually belongs to one of the biggest helicopter dealers in the UK, Eastern Atlantic Helicopters.

[talk_shy_tall_knight]

I'll try again...


...Have those things got any kind of AFCS?

If so and it was engaged whilst on deck...

[High_lander]

From the look at the Puma video (and discussion with a tail rotor EA), it looks like he shock loaded the tail rotor.


Rather hairy for the guy who falls out

[Dan Winterland]

After the initial pitch up, the tail rotor impacted the deck which accounts for the subsequent rotation. A good job getting it back down on the deck safely IMHO.

[John Eacott]

This one was done fairly extensively over in Rotorheads last year: the pilot is believed to have been caught by a known problem with collective friction allowing the collective to creep up on her. When she looked up from her checklist to find things going wrong (hence the nose down tuck at the start) she pulled up, then the rest, as they say, is history :=

Regardless, an incredibly lucky save, especially for the guy under the tail :ooh:

[The Nr Fairy]

talk_shy_tall_knight:

You're spoilt ! In the civvie world, AFCS isn't fitted on most single engine helicopters, and I'm mostly certain that single engine piston types (of which the Enstrom is one) are not so fitted, the only exception (in the UK) being a Bristows B206 used for instrument training.

Having once had a play in a simulator of a military type with AFCS fitted (thanks JJ / JS :ok: ) I'd like one in the R22, R44 and B206 which are my normal steeds, were they available.

[Mmmmnice]

I have no intention of starting off another discussion about 'what happened' if this has been done else where, but........having only had the luxury of operating twin pilot to a deck (in an a/c with AFCS etc etc) I cannot imagine why anyone would go heads-in for any length of time once the lashing are off? certainly not single-pilot with a 'floppy' stick (or would stick trim be used to keep the cyclic upright?) Maybe it's only 'cos I've had enough scares to make me stay eyes-out! Either way having AFCS would probably not have much bearing on the development of this incident anyway.

[John Eacott]

I cannot imagine why anyone would go heads-in for any length of time once the lashing are off?

A sad fact of life is that a lot of the civilian world doesn't have the benefit of either Mil standard training, nor the experience passed on by the 'old & bold', especially in the world of shipborne aviation.