Pay Comparision in Asia Pacific

[Vimd23]

Hi , out on a limb here , just wondering if all in the region would like to make a pay comparision table .....


So here goes my job description :

1. B737 Ng F/O --- Inr 86000/-- pm with 9W for 75 hrs . Overtime at 1667/hr .


who's going next ??? come on guys .....



Regards
vimd23

[Left Wing]

Other than CX& SQ Indian pilots are the best paid..so stop worrying and fly over time.

[9Ws]

Rs.86,000 per month with Jet?? You are kidding, right? Is that net or gross?

Even if that is after tax (meaning ~Rs.1,15,000 gross), it is still lower than the industry average... unless of course you are paying back a huge amount from your salary towards training costs?

[Vimd23]

FYI 9w , thats the deal as I have mentioned , I still do have to pay the EMI from the 86 K .

cheers
vimd23

[9Ws]

Vimd23

I'm not disbelieving you mate... I'm just truly amazed to hear that!

You do know that other airlines are paying MUCH more, right? There's something called "industry standards" and even Jet/SWIP should make sure their pilots get at least that (especially in today's aviation environment). Do I smell exploitation at Jet (again)?

When did you join Jet?
What experience did you join Jet with?
When do you stop paying back the Training Costs?
How much will you get in hand then?

Your gross monthly salary really should be between Rs.1,60,000 to Rs.2,00,000. Look beyond SM Centre...ask around and you'll know that what I'm saying is true.

Fight for what's "right". It's always been that way at Jet Airways. Keep quiet and they're happy with the situation for as long as you are! And despite SWIP being your best forum to address your problems with management, I have the choicest words for the nexus between SWIP management and Jet senior management.

Like I said... fight it out. I would. Coz it will yield results.

Good luck :ok:

[Vimd23]

Well , 9w , i joined mid last year , just completed my training and loft , salary is 91 K in hand , I just found out that they revised it a bit. It jumps to 1.8k gross in 6 months from now. The EMI is around 17000 per month , so its steep and its for 5 yrs.

The other salary bands in India as far as I know are for newly released F/O are:

1. AI -- Inr 180000.
2. IA -- Inr 150000.
3. Spicejet -- Inr 200000.
4. KFA -- Inr 150000
5. Blue Dart -- Inr 180000


Anyways , this is info.... kinda surprised that no one else has posted !!!!

Cheers
vimd23

[Burn'em and Turn'em]

Just for clarification purposes, those numbers are after training, correct?

Would the low timers be at this rate also?

Mind the ignorance, sorry. And thank you for the info.

[speedtwoten]

everybody please apply to Left Wing, the best pay for low quality pilot's be in India with Left Wing other's are not don't join Emirates, Gulf Air, or Royal Brunei:{

[repapips]

Hi! Pardon the ignorance...but can you please say what SWIP & EMI mean? I understand Inr is Indian rupees, correct?

What is Left Wing?
Why is it better than Emirates or Gulf Air?

Thanks very much! :O

[Vimd23]

everybody please apply to Left Wing, the best pay for low quality pilot's be in India with Left Wing other's are not don't join Emirates, Gulf Air, or Royal Brunei:{


Speedwoten , would u be kind enough to explain the above comment in detail ? Its beyond my comprehension !!!


cheers
vimd23:}

PS--- SWIP -- Jet pilots association -- Society for welfare of Indian Pilots
EMI--- Equal monthly installements ( Loan payments of the same amount)

[9Ws]

Vimd23, so to answer your original question, you got the figures for Indian F/O fairly accurate. Guess those are all the Indian carriers worth mentioning. If you're looking for figures from others in the Asia-Pacific region, hope a few will post them here.

As for your salary, strange Jet worked out a different package for you guys who joined recently. I still feel it's wrong and they should have had you all on the same salary as the rest from day 1 (less training costs EMIs). The other F/Os who joined years before you wouldn't have had a problem with that. Remember, a year 3, year 4 or year 5 F/O would have gotten more than you anyway because of "service pay".

So, like I said, "exploitation" ...to use a strong word (for want of another word to describe it)... and "taking advantage" of new kids on the block while they have no idea what's going on around them in the first couple of years of their aviation career.

Jet will just wait quietly for another "revolt" within the ranks to revise terms and conditions to what pilots like you want... until then you'll continue to work for what they give you.

Jet has very successfully built themselves into a really big aviation empire. Results obviously prove it. They've done really well. But as a result they seem to create this high-and-mighty aura within the company and very few feel they can "take the company on" on certain issues... but should.

If you round up your colleages and take it up thru SWIP (with all the justification etc), you'll have a great chance of getting that 1.8 lakh salary (what you deserve) "yesterday" instead of 6 months down the line.

Good luck! :ok:

[hpcock]

Silk Air currently offering SIN$1800 to start (1st 8 months), followed by approx 6000-8000$ pcm. Equates roughly to INR53999 1st 8 mnts, followed by INR 212500 for normal FO salary. These figs are gross with SIN tax @ approx 16%. All usual benefits come into force after your 1st 8 months, medical, loss of licence etc..etc. Expect command after approx 5 yrs, & a further 2 yrs before command wit SIA.

However, you are bonded for 7 yrs & I understand heavy redemption penalties are enforced if you leave within 3 yrs. Even if you leave after the 3rd year, you pay back the FULL cost of your training bond. Its in black & white in your contract.

They do prefer new FO's to have a JAA Licence, preferably issued in the UK, ortherwise other JAA contracting states. They are currently not actively listening to guys with FAA / Canadian licences (unless you are pumped up with hrs on type), in their case A319/20. Lastly, they are very interested in applicants who have had some form of prior career within aviation..e.g. A period of time in Ops with a good recognised airline, or a background within teaching circles, be it ground or flight instruction.

Hope this helps

HPC

[Vimd23]

Hi HP & 9w , thanks for taking the time to reply. I appreciate the input.

Where are all you other guys .... SQ , SQ Cargo , Air Asia , etc etc ???

cheers
vimd23

[hpcock]

Does anybody know what GoAir in India are currently paying their FO's prior to & after completion of line training??

[speedtwoten]

Other than CX& SQ Indian pilots are the best paid..so stop worrying and fly over time.
Left Wing think only for the money, is it true that the best paid were in India only??????but are they proud flying in India????? could you be proud only because of the money, or could you be proud because you are a pilot of CX, EK or SQ:ugh:

[Vimd23]

Speedwotten , just to clarify ....

1. The idea of this post was to get a fair idea of the pay conditions in and around SE Asia , it was definetly not to make sure we got paid the highest in India , or whether the guys in SQ & CX are getting paid more.( I am sure u would know that the cost of living varies from country to country )

2.Pride is something a pilot should have in himself as a person , not as a pilot. If one does have pride in one's standing as pilot , most likely the bars sit too heavily on his or her shoulders. A better person/human being makes a better pilot.

3. I do believe that humility is the essential commodity that a pilot must have , without which he is doomed as a professional and a person.

cheers
vimd23

[hpcock]

Hey Vimd23

You sum it up perfectly....nothing more to say.

Speedtwoten, do you have difficulty in understanding and comprehending the English language, because I sure as hell don't undersatnd a word you say. If I were your capt, i'd be very worried whilst flying with you. Can I suggest you take up a refresher course in English before posting on this site again. :}

HPC

[speedtwoten]

:{ Indian pilots are the best paid..so stop worrying and fly over time. yes Mr Vmd23 & hpcock I'm a Captain but in different attitude, and I have been in India your country and the attitude of F/O just 90% like you are event they know english better then I'm, but see how many expat pilot's in India can speak fluent english??? you check it up at Jet Airways or Air Sahara my boy:=

[hpcock]

Dear Speedtwoten

Firstly, I still don't understand what you are saying in your response. Did you read my previous post? I suggested that you brush up on your English - clearly you chose to rebuff my suggestion. I would also strongly insist that when attempting to use the English Language, one should really consider punctuation. Look it up if you don't know what the word means!!

Secondly, I'm not from India, but am of Indian Origin & actually don't see the inherent problem that you believe exists within Indian FO's. Go anywhere in the world & you will find that young FO's sometimes need an ice cube up their a$$ to cool them down.

I do agree that there seems to be a small problem with a number of Expat pilots & their comprehension of the English Language. However, this problem exists all over the world.

A case in point from a recent post by yourself:

"the attitude of F/O just 90% like you are event they know english better then I'm...."

So, before you be-little the standards of other peoples English take a good look at youself.....my boy

Yours

HPC

[CaptainProp]

A bit off the thread but... How long can you expect before getting a command, if you join as experienced (on type) FO, "over there"?
/CP

[boeingdream787]

Hi.....Ek-approx salary in hand....INR-1,60,000 PM
Silk-1.75
SIA-1.65(due higher training costs)
Goair-1.20
Spice-1.35
AIE-1.10
Indigo-1.30
Kingfisher-1.20
Sahara-1.40
These are ALL in INR....PM....and NET...ie TAKE HOME salary. Of course all are minus all training costs!! And at nthe overtime limit. BTW....Indian now pays the highest amongst ALL indian carriers.Obviously to negate the effect that Indigo is gonna create.Approx 1.40 in hand.A lotta med/insurance benifits with Indian of course.Being that its a govt company.Speed.....stop posting on a perfectly good thread and destroying its essence! And pleeeease take the advice on the thread and go get an (english) grammar lesson b4 ur next post.And 9w.....dont be a winder.What Vim says is perfectly legit.And nothing can change it.....lol.Including all your "pursuasive" posts.....:O .TC fellas.Blue skies always..........BD.

[hpcock]

Hey B787

Thanks for the very useful info. I hope your figures are correct, you seem quite well informed.

On another note, thank you for putting speedtwoten in his place aswell. I thought I was the only one out there who was having difficulty in comprehending what he was saying. (Or trying to say)

[masalama]

OK now anyone wanna compare captains pay....
S2:2.4 net for 50hrs (1500/hr till 75, 2500/hr then on)
GOAir: 2.78 net for 75 hrs(2500/hr then on)
Indigo:same as GO.
KFA anyone?????

Guys, I wouldnt even bother replying to speeddemon..he's a windup artist, just do a search on his posts and u'll see....

[Vimd23]

Hi , thanks for the informative post BD 787 , that was an eye opener with pay conditons ... for FYI for guys out there , as far as I know , most junior F/O in JET are doing around 110 hrs a month on average , give or take a few hrs . The take home with those hours is roughly around 1.2 lakh.

Capt Prop , sorry , I have no idea of the time span , because I am yet to come across a situation such as you have described in India.

Speed , I am still unable to comprehend your post in relation to the thread, but I will say this much that you do need to understand the " english " language in order to effectively communicate your postion. ( 4 bars do seem to sit heavily on your shoulder's as it is evident that you are unable to except that there maybe people other than yourself who out perform you as a pilot and a person --- make sure u get a BIG BAG of HUMILITY)

Coming to Capts Pay in Jet and BD its around INR 3,50,000 as far as I know , unable to remember whether thats pre tax pay.

cheers
vimd23

[Sidestick Priority]

I started out in 2003 as F/O on ATR 72-500. Basic salary was THB 45,000/month (yeah, I know.....we are ont of the lowest paying pilot in the world). I dont know the THB / INR conversion, but it was THB 40/USD in those days. Per diem is different for each sector.
Now I am F/O on A320. My basic salary is THB 50,000 / month plus per diem of around 25,000-45,000 depending on my monthly schedule. O/T starts from the 71th hour at THB 400 / hour.

I think we are one of the lowest paying A320 pilot in the world.

[winglet_fever]

Since we touched on the topic of English..

Aug 8, 2006
Pilots, air controllers to sit for English test
Move is to abide by global air safety standards that will kick in from 2008
By Karamjit Kaur, Aviation Correspondent


ALL Singapore pilots and air traffic controllers will be tested on their English language skills, as the Civil Aviation Authority of Singapore (CAAS) prepares to meet international standards to promote air safety.

Testing will start later this year for the more than 2,500 pilots and over 200 air traffic controllers. For those not up to the CAAS mark, they will have to go back to the classroom.

The need to push for safer skies has become more important in recent years with so many new airlines popping up, especially in Asia. The International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) has told its 189 member states that by March 2008, all pilots and air traffic controllers must have a basic working knowledge of English before they can be licensed. It means, for example, being able to pronounce words and letters clearly and being familiar with air traffic control jargon.

Candidates will be assessed and ranked on a scale of 1 to 6, with 6 being the highest level of proficiency. The minimum requirement is level 4 to be licensed but the CAAS is confident 'the vast majority' of Singapore pilots and air traffic controllers who are already required to speak fluent English will have no trouble meeting the highest level. Those who do not will be sent for classes every three or six years depending on their proficiency, a spokesman said.

Singapore Airlines supports ICAO's initiative, said its spokesman Stephen Forshaw. 'Given that the language of international aviation is English, proficiency in language communications is a critically important safety standard that the industry must follow.'

According to ICAO, more than 1,500 people have died worldwide in air traffic accidents due to communication problems between pilots and air traffic controllers.

The International Air Transport Association, which represents 261 airlines, supports the move too, said spokesman Albert Tjoeng. With less than two years before the new standards kick in, industry players gathered here last week to discuss what is required of airlines and airports. About 100 delegates from 31 countries, including representatives from ICAO and the International Federation of Air Line Pilots Associations, attended a three-day conference last week organised by the Singapore Aviation Academy.

[ASIAN FROG]

He Guys'
Your salary is one part of the equation, the second one is what you can do with it. Cost of living is very different in Singapore in Laos or in Myanmar.
Working conditions are also an important factor.

I suggest you work on that and propose a balanced equation which will comprises salary, cost of living, welfare and working conditions.
In Europe, 10 or 15 years ago, we were all complaining about our conditions: Lufthansa is better than Air France, British Airways has better life than Air France but Air France has better salary than British Airways....and so on.
At the end, european unions worked together on a common comparison study.
The result was we were around an average with some plus and minus: when a plus salary then negative working conditions... At the end it was refleting also the different trend of the various national societies.
If you want to compare the salaries, it is a good idea but you have to enlarge your study on other aspects to be fair.

[rduarte]

'Given that the language of international aviation is English, proficiency in language communications is a critically important safety standard that the industry must follow.'


I was thinking,it is six languages in the ICAO/OACI organisation : french,english,spanish,russian,chinese and arabic. :hmm:

[CaptainProp]

Vimd23 - "Capt Prop , sorry , I have no idea of the time span , because I am yet to come across a situation such as you have described in India."

OK, but does anyone have any info on the "new" contracts that are around now?

"Join now and have your upgrade in 12 months!"

Any ideas??

/CP

[Vimd23]

I have no idea as to upgrade time for these new contracts , to be honest , I have not heard of any such new contracts involving Expat F/O 's on any fleet . I do know , that deccan has F/O on the ATR fleet . Will let you know when I have some concrete info.

cheers
vimd23

[lucky_strike]

Vimd
Is it true that Jet has a hiring freeze on for Local Trainee F/Os as someone mentioned in another post ?!?!

[Vimd23]

Hi there , it may be true as I believe that we have taken over 100 pilots in the last year. As of now I have not heard anything , am going to mumbai soon , will let you know in a weeks time what I hear there.

cheers
vimd23

[CaptainProp]

Vimd - Any news that could be of interest??

Thanks!
/CP

[Vimd23]

Last I heard , they have decided to go slow on local F/O recruitment , as their 777's training schedules hace been pushed to feb/march next year . Another reason is that there are 100 or so local f/o's in various stages of training , from doing the exam to waiting for DGCA endorsement to waiting for LOFT . So its a bit quiet now.

vimd23

[lucky_strike]

Well , 9w , i joined mid last year , just completed my training and loft , salary is 91 K in hand , I just found out that they revised it a bit. It jumps to 1.8k gross in 6 months from now. The EMI is around 17000 per month , so its steep and its for 5 yrs.

The other salary bands in India as far as I know are for newly released F/O are:

1. AI -- Inr 180000.
2. IA -- Inr 150000.
3. Spicejet -- Inr 200000.
4. KFA -- Inr 150000
5. Blue Dart -- Inr 180000


Anyways , this is info.... kinda surprised that no one else has posted !!!!

Cheers
vimd23

Hi.....Ek-approx salary in hand....INR-1,60,000 PM
Silk-1.75
SIA-1.65(due higher training costs)
Goair-1.20
Spice-1.35
AIE-1.10
Indigo-1.30
Kingfisher-1.20
Sahara-1.40
These are ALL in INR....PM....and NET...ie TAKE HOME salary. Of course all are minus all training costs!! And at nthe overtime limit. BTW....Indian now pays the highest amongst ALL indian carriers.Obviously to negate the effect that Indigo is gonna create.Approx 1.40 in hand.A lotta med/insurance benifits with Indian of course.Being that its a govt company.Speed.....stop posting on a perfectly good thread and destroying its essence! And pleeeease take the advice on the thread and go get an (english) grammar lesson b4 ur next post.And 9w.....dont be a winder.What Vim says is perfectly legit.And nothing can change it.....lol.Including all your "pursuasive" posts.....:O .TC fellas.Blue skies always..........BD.

Just trying to understand this better - 9W you start with 1.15 gross ( 91k net approx) in hand and then after 6 months it goes upto 1.8 gross ( which would mean 1.3 net approx) where as the others pay as quoted from the above net figures by Boeing Dream are right from the beggining and these figures are obtained after deducting training costs where as in 9W you still need to pay for the 7.5 loan emi after the net figure .

So in the case of Kingfisher - they just take post dated cheques , nothing upfront , but then do they recover training costs from your salary . what abt the thing that if you serve them for 5 yrs then your tr is free ?!?!

Looking at this it appears that one makes less at 9W or am I missing a point or two here ?!?!

What are the advantages of working with 9W as compared to working with KF for a new F/O ?!?!

Thank you all ....

[Vimd23]

Well , 9w is in the process of increasing F/O pay , as they realise they are losing guys. The thing about 9w is the training is good , but its takes a year to get online , there is steady transition to the widebody if you so desire to go and command is up in 3 years as well. But I still think 9w can do better , I also think the Mr N G is now looking into things more closely.

cheers
vimd23

[HAWK21M]

Blue Dart pays more than 180K
regds
MEL