What are the Minimum Requirements for Indian Domestic Airlines?

[iamanaussiemavrick]

HI,


Let's talk abt what are the minimum requirements that the Domestic Airlines like Air Deccan, Spice Jet, King Fisher, Jet Airways are looking at.

Is CPL+Multi Engine Rating+Command Instrument Rating with a flying experience of 250 hrs enough to get into(as a trainee pilot).


Waiting for the responses.

Cheers :ok:

Kanak Chandramohan:)

[haree]

LEt me add some thing..

INDIAN CPL+Multi Engine Rating+Command Instrument Rating

[richie-rich]

and how many hours, haree? what are the chances with 250 hours CPL+Multi IR?

Thanks
Richie

[Glorified Donkey]

They have hired first officers without an INDIAN Cpl, especially Air Deecan and Kingfisher.

[haree]

They have hired first officers without an INDIAN Cpl, especially Air Deecan and Kingfisher.


Those are foreigners/NRIs with 1000+ hrs on type.. not fresh CPL holders who dont know what Airbus or ATR is

Haree

[Glorified Donkey]

Are you suggesting expat low-timers dont know what an Airbus or ATR are? Oh sorry I forgot they dont hold the most prestigious licence....an indian licence.. LMAO! :E

[pilotezulu]

It'd be good to get some experience first mate. Fly them turbos/turbines for a while. No point getting yourself into a situation on jet where you may have no clue what is going on.

Oooh, what does this button do? :E

Anyway, I think haree is correct in saying that is valid for the Indian CPL. My understanding is that they will hire expat pilots if they have those 1000+ hours give/take. As for fresh CPL (Indian) holders, it is pretty much straight in as a second officer trainee. I don't know if it really is THAT straightforward or not. But there's a catch somewhere.

Now how comfy would you be even after 6 months training on a jet as a second officer, to fly that thing from the right seat. :: Gives me the the chills :: I'd much rather have a few "exciting" and "eventful" flights on a 172 or a twin or something, than have to jump all the way to the top and have 'em there.

All good. It's just a matter of what you fancy and how ya fancy it.

[haree]

As for fresh CPL (Indian) holders, it is pretty much straight in as a second officer trainee. I don't know if it really is THAT straightforward or not. But there's a catch somewhere.


The catch is the most good and safe airlines keep these people as trainees/Secon officers for as much as 8-10 months paying them the "Stipend" :{


Some other airlines do hurry up and put these 18 yr old 200+ hr guys and girls into Right hand seat of ATRs and 320s. From word of mouth news, here again they act mostly as PNF except under good weather conditions no winds etc ....so effectively they watch from the right seat what the 10000 hr Expat capt is doing. Some times some of these guys do fly and end up in ditches or mud during landing. :ugh:


I'm surprised at the number of people getting into flight schools talking about life long dreams and have no clue what the hell is ICAO after getting their 150th hour!!! Another disturbing factor is that most ex pat F/os have plans to get command and then TRI TRE maybe MBA or PHD etc ... very impressive while talking to them


Indian F/os are clueless about their future.. Either childishly saying I'll fly A380s one day or I want to be a pilot in International airline or too complicated such as I'll work in XYZ Airlines on A320 then move on to ABC Air on A340s and finally do my MS from MIT and command a space shuttle with Bill gates , Julia Roberts and Richard Branson on board to MARS and set up the first human colony I havent heard of any new indian F/o planning or saying anything about taking an examiner /instructor/ sim instr / managment ratings. The airlines (Except the poor old Govt ones) are taking advantage of the situation by discouraging unions and making pilots the perfect slaves who simply work , get their money and go away since these pilots are fully focussed on getting the damn job and the money and nothing more than that.

General aviation too is ignored in the mad rush to the airlines. Charter outfits, Heli - operators , Air Ambulances, Agri-ops , Corporate aviation ops are all sitting in vacuum for the airline BOOM to get over so that they could get what they can from the remaining. :yuk: Sad to know that "Aspirants" have no clue what is General aviation - while pilots in USA NZ and AU are quitting airlines to join corporates for the time and pleasure.

Anyways im talking too much for a non-aviator.

Cheers and all the best for the aspirants...

Haree

[pilotezulu]

well said mate... :ok:

I'm off to go fly the grand caravans or twin otters now.... or at least I wish. :P time will only tell.

aussiemav, hope you have figured out what lies ahead.

[Left Wing]

Indian kids dont even know..how large the aviation horizon is ! All they see is the media talking crap...about the large pay checks. :ugh: :{ and the kids start to dream !

[Glorified Donkey]

haree:

Very good post. I know in Canada there are alot of Canadian Indians that are rushing out and buying type ratings on CRJs and 737s to go back and get hired in India. Everyone is rushing for the airline job before even getting an ATPL, then having to wait double the time to get that ATPL because they lack the PIC time.
Jet time is important, but I think what the airline really looks for is PIC since one day they plan on upgrading the pilot to a captain seat.

I too am taking it easy doing some turbo prop flying up in the great white north, then maybe do some corporate before I will try for the airlines.

[Young_Turk]

when i used to do supernumeries, people used to discuss switch logics and comm failiure procedures, and that was just 5-6 years back. now all the chatter is about salary hikes and real estate investments!!
whatever happened to the bird within us.........:confused:

[haree]

Everyone is rushing for the airline job before even getting an ATPL
Dear Donkey :rolleyes:
U must be surprised.. one particular airline in india is hiring people who "would" get a CPL soon leave alone ATPL.
now all the chatter is about salary hikes and real estate investments!!
The point is that if you lose your licence or medicals.. your friends and colleagues will still chat abt the money and women while you are on the street with the insurance. No AOPA or ALPA in india (except in Indian airlines) but who needs Indian airlines , the chicks are sexier and paycheck is fatter in Kingfisher or Spicejet ( the adjectives can be other way too depending on the person :p )
Haree

[ilov3s3lina]

let me STEAL this thread for 5 minutes.........



WEll.. i'm from South East Asia,

the problem here is... General Aviation don't advertise much.. or should i say that... i really have no idea on where to Get a GA job other than instructing in the Flying club that i'm currently in now(in future when i get my license and AFI)...........

don't misunderstood me, i don't have a license yet.... but i will get one in 1.5 years time.............

i'm just thinking of jobs... where are all the GA jobs?? all i see is Air Asia, JetStar Asia, Silkair, SIA etc. etc.... where are those GA jobs advertised??

ok.. return the thred to you

[RMP2]

Haree or Left wing,

I have to go to India in the upcoming weeks and start a 10 days conversion course with the airline I will be flying with.
They said they will prep. for oral and written exams in order to get my foreign licence validated by the DGCA.

Do you have information about those exams, by any chance?

Thks!:)

[Left Wing]

RMP2, same as UK CAA ATPL...the paper is combined into 1 big paper of 300 quest...oral is easy basic jet & turbo quest..if you are Type rated some on your type..dont worry airline will do the "deal" for you.

all the best have fun in the Indian monsoon !

[haree]

All the best and NAMASTE RMP .. Welcome to india..

So are you a "Boeing Commander " or " Airbus Pilot "? In case your fuse blew over the question.. its how the indian press address/classify pilots ..

I dont know what they'd come up with next?

Embraer aviators
Canadaair Drivers
Fokker .. err .. neva mind!

Haree

[tex8vc]

Hello Haree,
Few points on one of your last post.

Some other airlines do hurry up and put these 18 yr old 200+ hr guys and girls into Right hand seat of ATRs and 320s. From word of mouth news, here again they act mostly as PNF except under good weather conditions no winds etc ....so effectively they watch from the right seat what the 10000 hr Expat capt is doing. Some times some of these guys do fly and end up in ditches or mud during landing.

We all learn from mistakes and there is no harm to let young sit in cockpit, specially when airlines have no pilots why can’t a young pilot take up RHS !!! And trust me no airline put 18 year old with 200 hrs in Cockpit. Also, if you read aviation history, some times even experienced pilots failed to handle a complex situation.

Another disturbing factor is that most ex pat F/os have plans to get command and then TRI TRE maybe MBA or PHD etc ... very impressive while talking to them

I wonder how many Pilots you actually know, who got their MBA or Research Degree (Ph.D) after their Command rating!?

Indian F/os are clueless about their future.. Either childishly saying I'll fly A380s one day or I want to be a pilot in International airline or too complicated such as I'll work in XYZ Airlines on A320 then move on to ABC Air on A340s and finally do my MS from MIT and command a space shuttle with Bill gates , Julia Roberts and Richard Branson on board to MARS and set up the first human colony I havent heard of any new indian F/o planning or saying anything about taking an examiner /instructor/ sim instr / managment ratings. The airlines (Except the poor old Govt ones) are taking advantage of the situation by discouraging unions and making pilots the perfect slaves who simply work , get their money and go away since these pilots are fully focussed on getting the damn job and the money and nothing more than that.

Lets put it this way… what is wrong in saying “I'll fly A380s one day …..“
My friend, the first condition to grow is to Dream. Dream helps us plan our actions. With time, everybody becomes mature and maturity changes action. I am not sure about your age but would like to know if you never talked the way you mentioned when you were 18/20? Everybody is different with different dreams and expectations from life and should be respected for that. I feel it is just matter of age. And there can be several reasons you don’t see any Indian F/O planning for further education and training. First, how many Indian f/o you ‘know‘ and how old are they? You might be knowing a person as a friend but you can not say you really ‘know’ his/her plans? It can be a personal choice or financial difficulties/ commitments or time crunch!

General aviation too is ignored in the mad rush to the airlines. Charter outfits, Heli - operators , Air Ambulances, Agri-ops , Corporate aviation ops are all sitting in vacuum for the airline BOOM to get over so that they could get what they can from the remaining. Sad to know that "Aspirants" have no clue what is General aviation - while pilots in USA NZ and AU are quitting airlines to join corporates for the time and pleasure.


ILOVE3S Correctly pointed out, where do they advertise these jobs? I have seen only one in last 1 year! (most of the) aspirants ‘no where’ in the world want to work with GA sector (by choice) In US/ Europe and Pacific, aspirants work with GA because they can’t get a job with airlines unless they log 3000 hrs. And why would someone take less paid job when you have big loan to pay? Pilots in USA NZ and AUS can afford to fly for pleasure because its different approach towards life here. I live in NZ and if for some reason I am unable to work tomorrow, NZ Govt would look after me till I am dead. In India you have to work for yourself and for family. Here kids start to work when 12/13 (part time) and earn their living I.e contribute to family finances and after 16/20 they move out and become independent. Also I wonder how many non Indian pilots you know who left airline and started with GA??? And why don’t you start working with GA!!?? Its bit easy to make a comment on situation but very hard to take a action to change it.

Haree… my friend do not compare Indian scene with other nations. It would be unfair. India is a “developing economy” (not 3rd world nation) by the way [United nation objects on use of this term and instead suggested to use ‘developing economy’] and things need time to change and develop. It’s a great nation with great people (except few politicians) So give it some time. Its much bigger picture and demands a holistic view!
We don't need Criticism but we need critical appreciation!

Good luck.

p.s Check your spellings, I know for sure that Indian press does not make spelling mistakes!

[haree]

Chil buddy!

*** I DELETED THE WHOLE POST ****

I dont want to start a new round of bang bang in here again..


Tex.. we both are wrong people to fight in here.. I'm not a pilot.. you are not an airline pilot so lets just stay out of fights and be good forum mated :)


Cheers to all!!

Poor ol' haree

[tex8vc]

Haree mate,
I am sorry if my post sounds as if I wish to fight but trust me otherwise.
All I wanted to say is, you are comparing two entirely different things.

A. Developing nations with developed.

B. Very exprienced overseas pilots with young ones from a developing economy.

All I wanted is, you to understand the facts a degree better rather than making generalised statements in pubilc. Specially if you are not pilot, it shows your bad research and approach towards aviation and pictures a wrong image of the industry in a developing economy of which you are also a part.

I am not saying everything is good but all I want to say is, things need time. Proper research and facts are required to support such arguments.

I hope you would understand my point.

Wishes.

[haree]

Whoa!

A few points i'd like to differ from your defence about a developing nation blah blah mr Patriot!

India is one of the most literate countries in the world and have more professional than most of the other developed nations... Therefore the idea of further education is not new in india..As a matter of fact however rich or how big an airplane you fly the majority of the society will look into your qualifications..of course they dont know about aviaton and the importance of having a back up or whatever. This need'nt affect you personally but there are people who are affected. If you havent met any TRE/TRI/ MBA or PHD pilots its because we move in different circles .

Regarding the statement about flying A380s.. you are talkign with respect to the first part.. did u read the second statement? There are pilots who say that literally.. From ATRs / 737s to Space shuttles with a 10+2 .. what a *** joke! If you are defending this dream .. well i pity you too

Unlike you, me having tasted a few industries myself in a short career span before landing in an aviation related industry I must say india is much more than a developing nation. Its just that we'de developed in a wrong way. We need to mend it but we're sitting idle saying that its developing , let it develop while the babus are enjoying their share of the development

Jai hind
Haree

[tex8vc]

Hey Mate,
I am glad to know that ‘unlike me’ you worked with different industries at a young age. But I am sorry to say that again, you made another statement without knowing the facts! How do you know that I did not work in various areas? You actually helped me prove my point! You are repeatedly making statements without proper research.

Just to clear few doubts, After first degree, I was fortunate enough to get full scholarship to read M.S (in different field) in Europe. And later worked in Europe which actually helped me register for a Research Degree (Ph.D) while teaching young professionals and working with industry in the Pacific Rim. So far, I was pursuing a profession of my choice but now it is time for me to take up the profession of my dream. Hence I got myself registered for a CPL. At a very old age of 32.

While I agree that a lot can be done to improve things in India, I strongly feel that things are moving in right direction unfortunately, every thing takes time in India, surely as you said, due to ‘Baburaj’. Having studied and worked in India and Overseas, I understand both the sides (little bit). And it was bit difficult for me to accepts the way you made your points. I have no intention of making this personal but such post project misleading image leading to misinterpretations of facts by other readers.

Thanks for you comments anyway.

[haree]

Darn! i knew i had to use punctuations...

The "Unlike you" was the thought abt the developed nation thingy!!!


Unlike you, I must say india is much more than a developing nation , having tasted a few industries myself in a short career span before landing in an aviation related industry.

Now i know why Mrs Ninen used to cane me after my 2nd Std English grammar tests!!! :E :sad:

Cheers!

[sky747]

I think while you guys are taking it easy in the great white north, the 200 hr kids would have got time on type, then when you're ready to give up the company of the polar bears and return to India with 1500hrs + of King Air, PC 12 etc time, an airline would have probably have closed down or guys looking to move companies.

Then you'd have 20yr old kids with 500hrs + Jet time who would be easily given the job.

In Canada the industry is very saturated, and the opinion there is that you have to have lots of propeller time before you move on to a jet.

Let me ask you guys- if an indian license were to be dropped into yours hands - you guys would be wishing to be in India ASAP or would you still like to gain a little more experience in the great white north.

Don't want to leave your comfort zone , eh ?

Cheers !

[Glorified Donkey]

For one, the employer you work for means alot. Alot of the employers in the great white north are very reputable around the world, one being Kenn Borek who has many of its former pilots occupying seats at Cathay Pacific today. :ooh:

Not saying all airlines in India are unsafe, but there are a few that have been flagged. Jet time is important, but PIC time is as well. 1000Hrs jet time as FO in a low cost carrier which has a bad reputation is not anywhere as attractive to employers as 1000Hrs Turboprop PIC at a highly reputable company.

If you work for a company that breaks air laws, SOPs and has poor training, your next employer will know about the kind of experience you have.

Flying turboprop up in the great white north requires alot of skill and builds better experience than the skinny 21 year old indian pilot pushing AP1 on the airbus.

If an indian licence was dropped in my lap, I would be cautious, cause that probably means that there were too many accidents there and now they need to hire from abroad because of high insurance or no more surviving indian pilots. Im also willing to bet that a turbo prop captain in Canada makes alot more money than a FO on a CRJ or 737 in India. And also the living conditions in the great white north are alot better than that of India, so you wont see many of us down there.

BTW Ive been north of 60 and have still yet to see Polar Bears...lets get some proper info sent to India because all the new immigrants think we are just a truck stop here.



Cheers!

[haree]

So you guys saying that its unsafe for a 200 hrs in C152 + 15 hrs in Seneca+ 10 hr in Sim CPL holder to fly right seat on a A320 / B737 / E 170 / ATR ???

And any idea which is the company which practises the best CRM ?! or which part of the world has strict CRM procedures