EK reality

[Think Big]

The simple reality about EK: manager paradise in a place with no rules and no protection; they know it and use it. They can do what they want and when they want!

The big change in the past few years is that they went from wanting to be the best in the business to make the most profit and still be the best. They don’t realise that you can’t be both. The result, drop in moral of the employees that reflects on the final product!

You want to come here, be ready to meet some of the greediest personage.
The flight ops, lead by our beloved leader, who probably does not know what a time zone is, leads the worst department I have yet seen, remember, if you want to come here, they can and will do what they want, when they want.
The rules changes daily, the only thing they do or think is how to cut more with out even looking in their own backyard for what is happening, just look at the amount of fuel being thrown overboard, and they have the guts to tell us that fuel is costing too much.

HR is taking over the control of the entire airline, now in total control of recruitment; good luck to all!!! A shrink hiring a pilot, what’s next?

You would think that they would wake up and smell the coffee. No, no, no, it would be admitting that they where wrong. It looks like they would ratter let the ship sink then admit that they made a mistake.

If you decide to come here, watch your back (like every one does here). Take every thing that you can of it before they take everything of you.

Keep discovering and think big!!!

TB

[Ahad Adump]

Hey I THOUGHT BIG and you are correct.

Management:
F/O’s with more time on type than DEC’s.
Some F/O’s with more previous command time than DEC’s
DEC’s becoming TRI’s, having spent a few months doing it the EK way, teaching above F/O’s.
DEC failing conversion and being offered F/O position.
When DEC fails…. big inquiry
DEC’s scoring 2 and 3 in SIM and LT being let through.
Some DEC’s reverting to their 70’s style CRM after being let loose.
MORE DEC’s COMING….. WHY???

Recruitment:
2 ex-hosties, with no HR qualification, present at initial interview.
Same ex-hosties present at TRI and TRE interview.
Caliber of new crew coming through for training dropped dramatically.

Morale:
Most want out. (This Africa deal has been talk of the town for weeks.)
Everyone I speak with has some gripe with EK.
Middle management, CP and above, does not have a clue or simply doesn’t give a rats a**e.
Cash was OK (11yrs ago) for level of experience. (F/O late 20’s, early 30’s single or with new family when joining) Inflation has eroded the possibility to save for a decent retirement.

IMHO:
You cannot save as much as you might think possible.
EK does not care about you. Smiles and gold logo paper until you arrive, then you are on your own. (That is why they insist on proof of resignation from previous company)
UNLESS YOU ARE DESPERATE - DO NOT JOIN EK.!!!!!!

I am not directly affected by any of the above, so no personal washing done here

[Jack D]

What about the DEC,s with more command time and worldwide experience than anyone in EK , why are they never mentioned ?
I mean those that score highly on their checks and are an asset to the company , they are checked by people who are not nearly as experienced and you don,t hear them complaining, nor do you hear their comments about the standard of some of the F/O,s .

As for some of them becoming TRI,s don,t you think the training dept . could benefit from their knowledge ? many were very senior trainers in their previous lives.

To be absolutely clear I don,t support this DEC policy but a general denigration of all DEC,s is wrong and unprofessional . I do agree that Some may not be as good as required but this applies to the home grown variety as well .

I think the "Emirates Way" could do with some fresh input . As for recruitment I agree fully with your comments.

[Warlock2000]

Recruitment:
2 ex-hosties, with no HR qualification, present at initial interview.
Same ex-hosties present at TRI and TRE interview.

Are you surprised? Didn't you know that Capt's and FO's fit in just behind the most junior grade 2's.

[Ahad Adump]

Jacko

My point about DEC’s is;…. why by-pass good F/O’s, WHY?
None of these DEC’s does a BETTER job than our existing F/O’s.
Believe me; I have seen a lot of them in the SIM, most average, nothing wrong with that.
Why bring DEC’s if there are F/O’s that can achieve the same standard and know the EK way soooo much better.
In fact if you upgrade these F/O’s their pay is a lot less than a DEC.
In fact some TRI’s pay is less than the DEC he is training.

[Think Big]

A Adump

The real picture of what is going on, good one!

TB

[fullforward]

Grew up boys!
No matter what you, me or them think about it, EK, QR, EY,GF, SIA,KA, CAL, you name it, will do whatever they want about DECs and T&Cs.
So this endless crying and moaning is just BORING and useless.
After all, YOU signed on the doted letter!
Better you try to imagine some more effective ways to cope with such unfavourable or unfair policies.

[Vorsicht]

These posts are not people moaning or bitching or whingning. They are posts from good guys who have realised that they may have made a mistake and are putting information here so that all those that follow are informed.

We live here. We know that none of this will change our conditions. But at least we can sleep comfortably in the knowledge that we have passed on the lessons that we have learned.

After all, isn't that what aviation is about.

[fullforward]

I agree, mate.
But I think you didn't got my point, though.
Firstly, by assured that after at least 1,000 posts on this matter, every single PPruner interested in joining ANY airline as an expat FO is aware of risking to be stuck in this position.
For more time than said between roses and smiles at the interview.

Secondly, if we, as a professional group, have no strenght yet to enforce that clear and fair policies be in effect, there's always the alternative to move to greener pastures (as it seems to be happening at some carriers). Market laws by themselves will work on improve things in a couple of years.

Finally, if PPrune posting serves on alleviate personal frustrations, so go on! This is a wonderfully democratic tool!

[Bart O'Lynn]

Jack D,
At last a balanced post. I was beginning to think EK f/os were the only ones who could fly. Four legs good two legs bad syndrome.


To the other chaps, achieving a consistency on one type and in one operation due to time served is not an indication of skill or industry experience rather it is familiarity with the equipment , sim and route/sop philosphy of ONE company amongst others. The obvious howlers that get under all nets notwithstanding, i'm sure that not all your DEC are regional jet captains bluffing their way through the day. Blanket slag offs with sim pissing comparisions just sounds like chippy attitudes. Not so long ago if anyone slagged of EK they were instantly accused of having an axe to grind and a chip as they must have failed selection. Now you guys seems to be filling that personna. Just replace "didnt get in" with "someone took my job" (for whatever reason).
I was blasted on another thread for pointing out that it just makes you look like whinging wannabes.Now One of your colleagues has just said as much on this thread. First impressions in 7 seconds etc.

[Quod Boy]

Another quality FO quit yesterday,it makes 35 plus resigs this year.
What is going on?

Hardly innovative man management techniques,IMHO of course.

Off to pub,QB

[Dissapointed]

You must have the wrong source supplying you with the information, QB.

TCAS stood up at the meeting and specifically said that so far the average has been two resignations a month. It's now half way through September, so that would make 9x2=18.

Even I can do that sort of maths.

[Cerberus]

He also said we were getting 25 applications a day last year. By my reckoning we should have about 8,000 in the hold pool by now but he said at the meeting there were 1200. Before they stopped pilots from viewing the resignations on the computer I for one know there had been at least 15 from April. There are 5 this month and were 4 last month.

Someone is telling porkies, the question is who?:zzz:

[RINGAdingding]

Seniority list hasnt been updated since MAY either!! too much info can be gotten from that if it was published monthly!!

:ok:

[Alphaprot]

TCAS, was not lying (for once) there has been an average of two resignations per month, over the last 17 years that is :hmm:

[MR8]

Cerberus,

We're still able to see resignations via the portal. Don't just use the last day of the month, because they are blanked out, use a few days before that, and the RG funcion still works.. eg. 28 September, 4 RG's show up, all F/O's.

MR8

[EGGW]

MR8 . Top tip n all, but can i humbly suggest you edit your post and remove that info to the EK forum, as management might "delete" that function.
Just a thought....

:ok:

EGGW.

[Vorsicht]

That didn't take long. Gone already. Management can't be too busy if they monitor Proon that closely. Should have waited until wednesday afternoon to release that info, just like they do.

[SPOILERS]

So how many have left? TCAS says two a month but on the portal the minutes from the airbus meeting say 23 have resigned from the bus fleet. If you look at the boeing fleet meeting it says 25 pilots in total have resigned so i take it only 2 777 pilots have resigned.
Confused i am:confused: :confused: :confused:

[Alphaprot]

Another indicator of the kind of company we work for.
Allegedly the DEC who put in an ASR after the 12R barrier incident has been demoted to F/O.
So let's see non-punitive reporting system, no violation involved, QAR did not show anything, no way the company would have known if not pilot reported.......result, demotion.

[ratpoison]

Ha ha ha ha, they have actually removed the resig's on the portal. What beautiful children we have in management. Just keep the CV's going out gents. We'll all have our day soon. !!

[flybystring]

Oh but it gets better. I know some guys doing a reserve month. Both of them have been given a ten hour reserve period and were not called out. Crewing then changed the day retrospectivley to days off. When questioned crewing said this is now apparently allowable under the rules. I guess the "rules" were blowing from about the South West that norning.

So under the latest flight duty limitation scam, you can simultaneously log 5 hours duty for a standby where you do not get called out and have one of your minimum days off, but know about it until afterwards.

The Bull!!!! continues!

[Vorsicht]

Rostering tried that crap on me a few years back. Write to fleet management and express your disgust. I'll wager that it isn't allowed.

[RINGAdingding]

FBS are you for real??

Have these guys done or said anything about this !

Also many guys getting this BLANK day at the end of their roster month now??:( no thumbs up today!!