Multipilot time on Citation II ?

[PorcoRosso]

Bonjour all
I may have an opportunity to fly a Citation II, as co-pilot.
I would like to know if the logged time will be considered to unfreeze my JAA/UK Frozen ATPL ? (The famous 500 Hrs on a multipilot a/c requirments ...)

Best regards

PR

[unimuts]

As long as your type rated, you sure can.

Fly safe

unimuts :ok:

[PorcoRosso]

Thank you unimuts !

I'll be type rated !

[His dudeness]

Porco, you might be disappointed, but if it is a C551 (Citation IISP) you couldn´t use the hours - since it is a ClassRating, single hand pilot aircraft.
The C550 however is a TypeRating and a multipilot aeroplane.
Both are the same A/C just another AFM and MTOW,MLW.

[eyeinthesky]

I seem to remember a line somewhere which suggested that you could log multi-pilot hours on a single-pilot aircraft, PROVIDED that the crew operated according to pre-arranged and agreed multi-crew principles (PF/PNF etc). Someone had to be designated as Commander and someone as First Officer. I think there also had to be a separate set of instruments on the RHS if the FO wanted to log any actual handling pilot time.

I can't remember the reference, (although JAR Ops ! 1.940 makes reference to not reducing crew below minimum levels and the designation of a Commander).

What you can't do is simply jump in your Cherokee with two pilots and call it multi-crew! (pity)

[redbar1]

Hi,
Logging of flight time is regulated in JAR-FCL 1.080. Regarding co-pilot time, the thing says:(2) Co-pilot flight time
The holder of a pilot licence occupying a pilot seat as co-pilot may log all flight time as co-pilot flight time on an aeroplane on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aeroplane, or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.

This means that the A/C EITHER has to be in the multi-pilot part of the type rating list in JAR-FCL Subpart F, OR be required to be operated multi-pilot by e.g. regulations in JAR-OPS. More than 19 pax is a classic, BE1900, single-pilot certificated, required to be operated by 2 pilots. Contageous issue, the single-pilot cert/multi-pilot ops. My advice is you clear the logging issue with your local CAA.

Cheers,
RedBar1

[wjrazavi]

Do you know which model and serial number / unit number
it is and which country it's registered in?

[Fly Better!]

I know of someone who got his logbook bounced back when it was sent in for the upgrade of his licence, it was full of r/h seat C525 time. The company needed 2 pilots but he wasnt type rated so it was a no go as far as the CAA were concerned.

[ATP_Al]

Sorry, but none of the answers so far are correct! Have a look at LASORS.

If the aircraft is certified as a multi pilot type then you can unfreeze your licence.

If the aircraft is certified as a single pilot type but is flown multi crew due to operational requirements and your are type rated then you can log the time and it will count towards the 500hr multi crew requirement. However, you need to hold a multi pilot type rating to open the new ATPL and you must complete a skill test (which can be combined with an LPC/OPC or an initial type rating licence skill test) in a multi pilot aeroplane.

In simple terms, if you stay on a single pilot certified aeroplane you will not be able to unfreeze your licence. However, as soon as you have a multi pilot type endorsed on your licence (eg B737) you'll get a full ATPL.

Hope that clears thing up!

Al

[redbar1]

ATP_Al,

Interesting. That means that the UK CAA has additional requirements to the JAR-FCL on this also. Thanks, it's always interesting to get the national variants as well!

Cheers,
RedBar1

[erikv]

PR,

mind you, that although for the issue of a new license or rating all time under multi-pilot ops counts as MPA, this is not the case for converting a national license to JAA. In the part of JAR-FCL 1 that covers this issue, reference is made to time in multi-pilot certified aircraft only.

This may be a catch when you would like to go from national cpl (w. frozen atpl) to JAA atpl.

Erik.

[PorcoRosso]

Bonjour all

Thanks for your various views on the question.
To sum up the subject :

-This is a C550 , so multipilot by certification
-A/C Registered in France
-Operations are multipilot
-I willl be Type rated as MPA
-I am holding a CAA issued JAR CPL/IR

Therefore, upon reaching the 500 Hrs in this operation, I will be able to unfreeze my ATPL .

Right ?

:ok:

Many thanks again

[FLEXJET]

Porco,

Is this for the CFPR?

I saw the a/c for sale a while ago.
I Don't see it anymore on the market though.

Good owner, local source told me.

[PorcoRosso]

:E :E :E :E :E :E :E :E :E