Questions about China Airlines

[woowootila]

I am looking for someone who works for China Airlines who could answer some of my questions about this airline. The questions are:

1. Upgrade policy. The airline told me I would be placed in the pool after three years and then based on performance. Can anyone tell me how long is it realistically to upgrade to captain or do expats go to the bottom of the list and do people just leave because of frustration.
2. Compensation after the first year. You start at 4660 USD per month and then your salary is up for review on a yearly bases. How much of a increase can I expect?
3. Safety. I have searched the internet and it seems the airline has a major accident once every 6 years. Is this because of training or maint or both. Has this airline turned it self around or is it business as usual.

I am starting to see some red flags about this company and information from someone who works there would be greatly appreciated.

[International Trader]

Here we go again.

1. The policy is 3 years or 150 landings to get into the pool.
With the local F/os hogging all the available landings, I am told by F/Os that this is stretched to 7 years. Once in the pool locals will by-pass you .
In Asia you can only expect to be employed in the position stated on your contract.
I am told that it is there wish to be "nationalized" within 10 years . Short answer: NO COMMAND.

2. I am told that there are 11 levels of pay . When they were asked what they were, people were told:" don't worry, you are on the correct pay ".

3. Has 6 years passed yet ?

Expats leaving as the reality sets in.

Don't go as an F/O.
Nice people but they play the game their way.

[Deske1]

I can confirm the things mentioned above.
We are here because of the insurance.As I remeber,there is a letter in the crew center about the lowered insurance fee for this year.

The company policy is to fly the aircraft from book,that sometimes simply doesnt work.I wasnt even allowed to find out a noise abaitment proc. in Europe from the Jeppesen,cause it is in THEIR book.
You will always get wrong nremarks on your training log,to justify that you are not better than the locals.

Yes,they play their game and at the end of the road you will not be upgraded.
During the line training I had a foreign instructor under supervision of a local check pilot.
After landing I have received the following remark:"YOUR INSTRUCTOR TEACHES TOO MUCH! "

It is also true that there are nice people here,but the "bad apples" makes the whole airline a nightmare.
It is very hard to show good performance when you here the following for 10 hours in the cockpit:

1. The company is vasting money that you are here.
2. Geeeez you were a real pilot at home?
3. You are lucky that you didnt have your interview with me.
4. I dont train sub-standard pilots.

Nowadays,they like to fail foreign people,they fail you,give you another check flight fail you again,till you dont leave.We were 10 at the ground school,and 4 checked out on the line.
The newest 747 arrived in last december and now after 2 month of service,it has a recorded hard landing.But we are sub-standard!All of us received our airline training from companies that never had an accident!
Local pilots with CPL from Fokker50 are on ground school for B747-400.

The trick:

When I arrived here,I was offered and signed a contract of usd 5100.Nowadays from december the offer is for 4600 usd,so this is the payrise for the new guys after some time.
The left hand doesnt know what he right does!
The managment hire us,because they need us,but most of the other guys do their best to prove that we are not needed.

Taipei:yes,the pollution is untolerable and really dangers your life.
But at least the people are friendly and helpfull here.I can also suggest,if you have kids dont take them here as their health will surely be damaged.

[woowootila]

Thank you for your replies. It sounds like what I have been thinking. You are contracted in the right seat and the company does not want to waste any money in training an expat to move to the left seat. Just curious are you still at China Air and what does management tell FO's who have been there for awhile in regards to upgrade.

[etops777]

Deske 1 and IT

come on here, the pollution in Taipei is not all that bad!! i can think of worse places then taipei.

both of your post i defined as " ARROGANT", period!! it's true there are bad apples at CAL but lots of good and competent pilots as well.

if cal can't give you what they promised why not just pack up and leave?? life is too short to be complaining all day.

be advised, life expectancy in taiwan are not as bad as what you think.. do some research

ciao

[Omark44]

You seem to be missing the point.

If, as an expat. you give up a perfectly good job and move to Taiwan in the hope of improving yourself you have every right to expect that your new employer will honour the contract, if they don't they have hired you under false ptetences and you have every right to complain and take them to court too.

You certainly don't just bend over and take the bat.

ciao.

(Arrogant - aggressively assertive or presumptuous, according to the OED. Nope, don't think you got that right either!).

[Deske1]

It wasnt my purpose to be arrogant at all.Maybe these things are really fresh for me.In case I was misunderstood:most of the guys are really nice gentlemen,but most of the old air force pilots will make your life hard.Like a friend of mine,who got a remark in the cockpit that he steals the opporunity from the taiwanese.
Although,I have heard at the interview about the upgrade after 3 years,I didnt have any illusion about it.
It simply doesnt work in the real life.The senoir pilots are politically well conected,what do you think will happen if the upgrades would go on the published 3 years policy?About 2o% of the pilots are foreigner,can anyone tell me how many upgrades happened in the last years?So you will be here in the right seat,get your money and when you get something better,simply leave,like most of the guys do.

So,to avoid any more remarks about my arrogant style,I got what I expected and satisfied with my salary,rooster,most of my collegues and position and satisfied that my home country CAA put my 747 rating into my ICAO licence.
This is only info for those who want to join.

[International Trader]

Mr Etops77,

I have what I want from the company. I am doing quite well and am happy.
I am trying to give a generally open opinion of the company so that interested people can make an informed decision before they committ to a contract. People leave because the job does not meet expectations.
My comments are designed to benefit for the company in that they don't waste money training people who will leave and a benefit for those who come because they will not be disappointed.
Who knows it may even lead to a permanent change for the benefit of both.
A big problem has been misinformation , not necessarily always intentional on the part of the company. As I have said they are quite nice people individually. There is a problem with the company direction, policy and with politics within the management levels of the company. I personally believe that
the latter has something to do with a fear of losing control to the other political group or even the expats.

Taiwan definitely does have a major pollution problem (just look at the pollution readings in the local paper) and with acid rain.
As a nation they must address this immediately, and a good start is the two cycle motor scooter explosion. This must ultimatley reduce ones lifespan.Only an idiot would argue against this. Now Mr Etops comments suggest that he has research that suggests what I say is wrong. So, where is it?

Sir ,I consider you and those like you to be part of the problem and not the cure. Stop the rosey descriptions in an attempt to follow the "company line" and not tell it like it is. This will not help you get a command as you think it might. This not a "devotion" to the fleet or company intended to pave your way to your command. Ultimately it hurts the company because their training and HR costs will blow out.

[woowootila]

Can anyone tell me how long it is to upgrade? From what the forums say, expats are leaving. There must be some expats sticking it out to upgrade.

[Deske1]

This question makes me more worried: Is there any chance to be invaded by the Big Brother?

[BlueEagle]

Deske1 - If China invades Taiwan they will, because of treaties that exist between the USA and Taiwan, have declared war on the USA also, how likely do you think that is?;)

[gengis]

Nobody wants a war. I'm not Taiwanese, but from what i gather, the US just seems to be saying that they'll help arm Taiwan. Not likely they'll shed blood, esp now that they've got their hands full over Iraq (a non-nuclear state), i wouldn't think they'll tangle with someone who actually has the means to deliver an ICBM with nukes across the pacific. China has a different mentality - push them and they'll go all the way. Remember, in the Korean war, they were the ones who used human wave tactics. No doubt the US has bigger guns and will inflict serious co-lateral damage too. All i'm saying is that unless the US is ready to shed its own blood big time, i'd say Taiwan's pretty much alone..... just rhetoric.

But i guess the Taiwanese know this too; just playing up to their own domestic audience. I just hope they know not to cross that line in this high stakes poker game. For those of us expats in Taiwan, if this issue bothers you that much, start by moving your $$$ out ASAP.