Freelance in europe for americans [Archive]

727 exec

17th January 2005, 16:25

Be very, very careful...

UK Immigration expects that visiting Pilots arrive and depart on the same aircraft. I'd guess that you might well be refused entry if you are coming here 'to work' - unless it was something like picking an aircraft up.

I'm aware of two Pilots recently from the US - both flying here...one met on landing and escorted to nearest flight out with a suggestion that he'd not be welcomed back / other was given a warning of impending interest from HM Immigration, and left the same day.

skibeagle

17th January 2005, 21:15

If you are Swedish born, does that not allow you to hold Swedish Citizenship ? If you can hold Swedish Citizenship, then Sweden is a member of the EU, you should be able to hold a Swedish (and thus EU) passport. EU passport means you can live and work, unrestricted, anywhere in the EU and the extended European Economic add on (whatever thingy) eg Switzerland, Norway, Iceland...

Contrary to whatever cr@p/urban myths you may have heard, you will NOT be required to give up your US citizenship, they may scare you into thinking you can't hold dual, but in practical reality, it isn't enforced. I know someone who hold's three nationalities (one EU, one US, and one UK Commonwealth).

AA717driver

18th January 2005, 20:53

Snow--Get your Swedish citizenship.

Get your JAA ATP(sounds like you could get through one of the "quickie" courses) and let the money start rolling in over in Europe.;)

Just having the JAA license would grease a lot of skids that wouldn't ordinarily be available.TC

zombieaa

18th January 2005, 20:54

I think you should stay where you are and leave us alone here.......... I give full support to the Immigration for forcing americans to go back to where they belong.......

specialbrew

19th January 2005, 12:50

Well Said Zombie.......... Just what do you think would happen if we wanted to pop over there to do a little freelancing?

Thats right...... they would at best, deport you and tell you to :mad: off!!

Northern_Driver

19th January 2005, 14:00

Its probably better situation there for Citations and Props.

N_D

meatball

19th January 2005, 14:14

whoa boys- i remember back in the late 70´s and 80´s there were an awful lot of brits flying in the states: mostly instructors, some executive hour builders a very few captains ( i once met a united dc 10 captain from london) but the point is that no one was sent home and plenty of you guys got your carreer going from the land of opportunity...so, if this fellow of swedish origin should want to fly here, why shouldn´t he ?

Northern_Driver

19th January 2005, 14:38

so, if this fellow of swedish origin should want to fly here, why shouldn´t he ?

I agree Meatball-no reason-why not. I am sure if he/she was born in Sweden he/she has a European passport also and that about that then-happy landings and Lycka till!

On the other hand if he/she dont have a European passport he/she is in a same situation than Europeans without a Greencard.

I personally would like to fly for American leftseat B777 but not during summertime only freelance according to my schedule.:}

N_D

DA50driver

20th January 2005, 22:04

Zoombi

Think before you say something like that again. I bet 20 percent of pilots in the US are from Europe, me included. People like me staying out of your way gives you greater employment opportunities. However, if you think that everyone should stay at home, I will be looking for a job i the EU. I have Falcon 50, Falcon 900, Hawker, Citation 650 and Citation 500 type ratings. 7200 hours tt, 400 me jet. All paid for by the American capitalist pigs I work for(and all obtained in the last 6 years). Not to mention that I am quite well paid for what I do. Americans are the most accomodating people I have met anywhere and if you are willing to work hard and you are good at what you do there is nothing to stop you. If you want to come here to work, go through the proper steps and you will be welcomed.

I wish all the EU'rs would lighten up a little on the US. They saved my familys butt back in 45, and I will never let that be forgotten.

I was quite successful growing up, and I was treated much the same way the US is being treated now. All I can say about that is that it is easier to be critical of others than to improve yourself. If you think George W. Bush is an idiot, the PM of Spain made W seem like a top notch diplomat a couple of days ago at the unveiling of the 380. The spanish PM said that there is nothing that can stop Europe now. Open mouth, insert foot.

I will now step down from my soapbox.
I love the USA, and Old Europe is pretty good also.

That is supposed to be 4000 jet.

sohat

20th January 2005, 23:01

Well said 50 driver.

zombieaa

21st January 2005, 00:14

Mr. DA50driver,

I am indeed very happy that you have had all this success in your life, one would have to be very special to accomplish something like that, and that you are so well paid must feel great for you :-)

Quote: “Americans are the most accomodating people I have met anywhere and if you are willing to work hard and you are good at what you do there is nothing to stop you. If you want to come here to work, go through the proper steps and you will be welcomed”

I am puzzled; if you are willing to work hard and do it well in Europe you will not be rewarded??? If an American went through the proper steps I’m sure that he could come to Europe and work legally as well. And like you said, if I wanted to go to America I could, and who knows, I might even be a competitor to a man like you Mr. DA50driver, there is, however, nothing in this world that would make me go there. (I have been for a few type-ratings in the past and that was enough)

However, Quoting Snowpilot, “Just looking for short term stuff” suggests that he will not go through the proper steps. One has to wonder though, if he was born in Sweden it’s easy, he will automatically have the right to a Swedish Passport and hence the right to live and work in the EU and the commonwealth states.

One could get into a big Political discussion as well, I will say a few things; trying to impose once beliefs upon others by force, without regard to their background, culture or ways of living is not the way of a democracy, it’s the way of crusaders and it will fail. On the other hand, if the people of a country have truly had enough of their leader, (tyranny) they will tumble him themself. Romania proved this to be true as late as in 1989.

America is for Americans and the people who believe in their culture and way of living and should be contained to America for the better of those who don’t.

Zombie.

Sonic Zepplin

21st January 2005, 12:07

EUROPEAN PILOTS ARE PLENTIFUL IN THE STATES

THEY TRAIN HERE, THEY WORK HERE AND ARE COMPENSATED BETTER THAN THEY WOULD BE IN THEIR OWN COUNTRIES.

IF AN AMERICAN WANTED TO GET INTO EUROPE TO WORK AS A PILOT THE, DOOR WOULD BE CLOSED.

ferrydude

21st January 2005, 13:18

Very true Zepp, and as for the comments from Mr. or perhaps Ms.
Zombieaa.
"One could get into a big Political discussion as well, I will say a few things; trying to impose once beliefs upon others by force, without regard to their background, culture or ways of living is not the way of a democracy, it’s the way of crusaders and it will fail."

Seems to have worked quite well in the European countries where the great Satan "imposed" it's beliefs on others as during WW1, WW2 and the Cold war. Let us not forget Japan, I could not think of a more successful country having other's beliefs "forced" on them.

zombieaa

23rd January 2005, 22:01

Quote of Ferrydude "Seems to have worked quite well in the European countries where the great Satan "imposed" it's beliefs on others as during WW1, WW2 and the Cold war. Let us not forget Japan, I could not think of a more successful country having other's beliefs "forced" on them.

It's uneducated comments like this that makes a big part of the People in Europe dislike Americans. If you had any kind a relible knowledge of the history you would know that during the first worldwar America was not involved, during the second WW the said European states asked for the help of America and hence they did not attack unprovoked. As far as Japan is concerned, they attacked America first and one can not blame America for hitting back and Japan is still today a country very much of it's own Culture and ways of living. How on earth America supposedly imposed itself on Russia during the cold-war I could not even pretend to understand. Russia is still a force that GWB won't dear to touch.

I agree that America did great deeds for the people of Europe during WWII but that does not excuse all the bad things they are doing in the world now. If somebody safes the life of your son would you then think it's OK for him to kill the other one??

NZLeardriver

23rd January 2005, 23:27

Often forgotten, more countries than just America helped in Europe.

From my experience flying in the US, it is not open to foreign pilots since Sept. 11. The hoops that you have to jump through are just not reasonable for the pilot or for the employer. Only those with greencards or a US passport are treated reasonably by the US government.

There are many double standards. Such as American pilots not needing a crew visa to fly to other countries, yet the USA insisting on those from other countries having them to enter the US. I can continue, but it would take all day.

ferrydude

24th January 2005, 00:09

Ohh thanks for the history lesson Mr. Zombie! I didn't realize that America had no role in WW1, I suppose those graves in Flanders are all empty, a big hoax. You know how Americans are too lazy to read books, so please enlighten me some more. Please teach me some specifics on all of the "bad things" America is doing in the world now. Who said anything about Russia? Seems to me that the cold war played a roll in the former Soviet client states gaining independence and democracy, would you deny that?

SnowPilot

24th January 2005, 00:30

I guess i should explain.

Yeah I'm swedish born. No big deal. I never thought about getting dual citizenship. I'll have to look into.

I've wanted to do more international flying and have been looking at how i can do it.

I find it kind of ironic that the US airlines hire all types of foreigners. You guys come over here, train and then fly for the regionals or the airlines. WE welcome you with open arms.

Hell we trained you sooo well you flew into three of our buildings. But we still allow you to come over and we still let you get treated with the utmost respect.

but for a US citizen to go over there and fly all of a sudden your up in arms.

So before you start running your mouth about how bad americans are maybe we should look and see that quite a few of your countrymen are over here working. Yes they are taking jobs from americans. You don't see us getting all up in arms.

Kopeloi

24th January 2005, 00:46

Snowpilot,
There is quite a few americans flying in Europe. We don't have any harder objections for that than you have for foreigners. We don't even request visa from you when you visit in Europe as crew, like you do from Europeans.
What most countries, like US, are requesting is a licence. That you do not seem to have yet. Get a European licence as Europeans need to do US licence and that's half of the battle.

v1r8

24th January 2005, 02:34

Snow,

Get your workpermit for a western-european country, get your JAA license and I will welcome you with open arms. like you guys have done for me, when I did the above in the states. Heck I'll even buy ya a beer.

But.. And i quote:

"Hell we trained you sooo well you flew into three of our buildings. But we still allow you to come over and we still let you get treated with the utmost respect."

These guys where from the middle-east.. And where moslim extremist.. Not your average western-european christian..

Regards,
V1

NZLeardriver

24th January 2005, 02:56

SnowPilot

I find it kind of ironic that the US airlines hire all types of foreigners. You guys come over here, train and then fly for the regionals or the airlines. WE welcome you with open arms.

Not true. It is illegal for a foreigner to train in the US then work in the field for which they trained there unless it is done under a J visa, then they are strictly limited for whom they can work and time limited in how long they can remain in the US. They then cannot return to the US for a set time.

mutt

24th January 2005, 04:09

Snowpilot.

I find it kind of ironic that the US airlines hire all types of foreigners. You guys come over here, train and then fly for the regionals or the airlines. WE welcome you with open arms.

You really need to do some more research on this, foreign nationals are not allowed to train in the USA without the proper VISA, they certainly are not allowed to fly for an airline without the proper work visa. So please come to Europe, we WILL welcome you with open arms, provided you have the proper VISA.

Mutt.

V1 Rotate

24th January 2005, 10:46

Zombieaa wrote:-

"If you had any kind a relible knowledge of the history you would know that during the first worldwar America was not involved"

Well Mr. Zombieaa, Read up on your aviation history and you will learn that a Gentleman by the name of Edward V Rickenbacher became one of the highest scoring fighter aces in WW1. He was very much American and went on to found Eastern Airlines, which in it's day was the largest airline in the world.

V1
:cool:

AA717driver

24th January 2005, 21:48

Let's all back away from the nationalistic bull$h!t, ok?

We're all a little old for the "my dad can beat up your dad" stuff.

The impediments for anyone wishing to fly on the other side of the world are not too great to overcome--it just takes some effort.

The bureaucrats are the enemy. Not other pilots.TC

DA50driver

26th January 2005, 19:53

But my dad can beat up your dad. OK, not anymore, but when he was young he could have.(I think).

Getting back to forcing our beliefs on anyone, have anyone realized that the middle eastern radicals think DEMOCRACY is immoral? Democracy elevates a person to a godlike status in their opinion. This of course is wrong, but a few Mullahs running things is o.k. Who elected them? It defies my sense of logic. So, if you have ever gone to a polling station, watch out.

The radical religious problem can be dealt with now, or we can wait 10 years when it might be to late.

zombieaa

26th January 2005, 20:00

America was not officially involved in WW1, however, there were many Americans who came over to Europe to fight under the English flag, not the American flag. Edward V Rickenbacher was one that came by his own free will. The graves in Flanders are presumably filled with these bodies.

President Yeltsin gave independence back to the other republics of the former USSR. What the US had to do with that maybe you can explain Ferryman.

DA50

How can you say that what someone else grew up and has belived in all his life is wrong??? Yes, Muslims do think democrazy is wrong and then the Americans try to force it upon them, as I said before; it will fail. What if they came over to our part of the world and said we had to live by their beliefs, would you like that???

I would have to agree that the radical religous problem can be dealt with now, however, that problem includes more than radical Muslims, it also includes radical christians, for example George W Bush who is the real threat to world peace along with twisted minds in Israel

DA50driver

26th January 2005, 20:28

Just had a chance to read your slam on me. I came to the US because I am afforded opportunities here that I do not have at home. All my friends from home that learned to fly are now bartenders.( A noble profession, but the student loans seems to high for it).

Also, I saw what high taxes can do to someones drive and passion. My dad started a trucking company when I was very young. While he was working long hours trying to get his business going I did not see him much. It took a few years before it started to pay off and when he finally had success and made some money he was hit with 84% income tax. If you never have seen anyone totally demoralized, I can tell you all about it.

The USA is not for everyone, especially if you feel like you are entitled to everything in life. It is quite obvious that I take offense to all the US bashing coming from my fellow europeans. Wait until they start bombing the s... out of you, we will talk again then. Maybe you will see that the US is not the only problem. It takes at least two parties to have a disagreement.

I love going to work every day. If flying wasn't my job, it would be my hobby. That would not be afforded to me at home.

By the way, there is a book coming out detailing the Iraqi nuke program. It will be out in english pretty soon. Get a copy.

Sincerely,
DA50 DRIVER

ferrydude

26th January 2005, 21:04

H.Finn

27th January 2005, 06:07

So as I understand, back in the WWI days, it was much easier for americans to do some freelance flying here in Europe. That's what Rickenbacker & Co were doing?

PorcoRosso

27th January 2005, 18:33

Americans not involved in WW1 ???

Zombiesaaa .... You are a shame to Europeans .

Below is the official declaration of war by USA

Whereas the Imperial German Government has committed repeated acts of war against the Government and the people of the United States of America; Therefore be it Resolved by the Senate and the House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress Assembled, that the state of war between the United States and the Imperial German Government which has thus been thrust upon the United States is hereby formally declared; and that the President be, and he is hereby, authorized and directed to employ the entire naval and military forces of the United States and the resources of the Government to carry on war against the Imperial German Government; and to bring the conflict to a successful termination all of the resources of the country are hereby pledged by the Congress of the United States.

Not convinced yet ? ..... well I guess you will speak about alien abduction, Roswell whatever ....blah blah

We may not agree with today's US policy here and there , but it doesnt prevent from reckoning teir contribution to free Europe in WW1 & WW2.

4HolerPoler

27th January 2005, 20:45

Guys please get this thread back on the centerline or I'll steer it into cyberspace.

Thanks.

4HP

zombieaa

28th January 2005, 11:56

This proves that by denying something truthful I have managed to annoy the people I have denied. If they could only look at this in retrospective.

Zombie

meatball

29th January 2005, 10:56

IN THE END OUR SWEDISH-AMERICAN FRIEND WILL DO WHAT HE SEES BEST TOWARDS HIS FUTURE AND LUCKILY HE HAS THE RIGHT BACKGROUND TO CHOOSE BETWEEN USA OR EUROPE OR ELSEWHERE...BEST LUCK TO HIM:ok:

Bumz_Rush

30th January 2005, 08:44

The differences between ICAO and the FAA standards should be averaged out, like the JAA attempted to do...then....we will all have one standard licence/certificate....

Then the fun starts, ues it is a problem getting trained, as most of the business sims are US based.....BUT have you tried to get a slot at CAE in Dubai...I needed to forward more scanned documents to them , than I have ever sent to SIMULFITE in DFW, or even FSI.....

As a slight aside, I have been having problems explaining to an American brother, that we need two type-rated crew in a Challenger or Gulfstream cockit, once outside the USA....where is this written in bold print, when you arrive in Le Bourget, or Luton for these guys to read...

So it is harder to be trained by an AMERICAN organisation than a non AMERICAN. whic brings me to my last point, is there a NON AMERICAN training organisation for corporate aircraft.....Bumz

H.Finn

30th January 2005, 09:33

Flight Safety at Le Bourget. Much less hassle to get there, not to mention the travel time from Europe. But, to my liking, it is very "French", unefficient, disorganised, working only weekdays etc. I think the normal French working week is 36 hours or something like that. But isn't FSI opening a new center at Farnborough shortly? Does somebody know which sims will be available there? Also heard something about Simuflite and Prestwick, anybody else heard about this?

Bumz_Rush

30th January 2005, 11:59

It does not matter that you are using PLB. the problem is that you are using an american company......unless you have hard proof of being able to turn up at FSI PLB without all the TSA paperwork completed.....please let me know.... Bumz

H.Finn

30th January 2005, 12:17

Bumz, you could be right. Haven't been to FSI at Le Bourget since 911. There seems to be no way to avoid the TSA hassle then.

727 exec

30th January 2005, 13:17

There is one enormous benefit of FSI Le Bourget (ok - there may be others - but...)

They are the only place in Europe where you can get the fingerprinting done for the TSA training clearance. You can get them done somewhere in the Middle East, but otherwise it's a quick trip to the US of A...

Just one word of warning...book in advance. The very kind Lady who helped me the other day by doing my prints was fully booked for days and days.

JJflyer

30th January 2005, 17:06

I did my share of flying on the western side of Atlantic. It was time consuming and a paperwork nightmare to get all the paperwork done to be able to "Work" in US. This was based on a J1 visa where I was allowed to work as "Flight Instructor only" or related fields.
To work for a 121 or 135 carrier or to freelance in US since 911 is just not possibe unless you are either a greencard or a passport holder and actually has never really been possible on a visa.

To obtain either of the above is a hassle and very time consuming. No offence meant. I believe that US citizens should go through same if the wish to work in Europe.

EU members should be doing more to prevent illegal immigrants, be it temporary "Freelancing" or permanent from entering as well as requiring that employers are verify the immigration status of an applicant.

Just as a side note. There are if not hundreds but tens of non Eu citizens based in Europe flying for European airlines and foreign carriers as well as corporate operations based in Europe without legal right to be here.

JJ