EK Notification

[GTP]

Any idea how long it will take to get a yes or no back from EK recruitment after going through the interview. and what procedure do they follow checks reff etc after the interview.. I got the medical done as well i hope thats a good sign.
Thanks anyone.

[thrustidle74]

Hi,

I had the interview 4 weeks ago.I got a job offer this morning.A friend of mine in the same interview group got the answer last week.So I think it depends.
About the medical as far as I know everybody gets the medical if time permits.
Good luck.

Cheers

Thrustidle

[thrustidle74]

Oh,I forgot...About the refrees they do contact all of them.(By phone in my case)And if they contact within 10 days its a good sign that they are intrested in you.

Cheers

[palm]

i came back from DXB the 18 of November and had a "yes" 11 days after....

Really fast?

[Smoozesailing]

It's been 4 weeks since my interview, and still no joy. So far none of my refs have been called. Feeling very small right about now.:ugh:

[BDD]

Palm,

Can you check your personal messages.

Thanks
BDD

[bugs bunny]

Check your PM, pls.
Cheers,
Bugs

[GTP]

Interviewed 3 weeks ago. One from my group got the ok the rest havent heard yet ? Is this a bad sign for the rest of us?
any one with insight.

[Smoozesailing]

The last advise I got was "No news is good news". If they wanted to cut you, they could do it very fast.

A friend of mine just got into the next Airbus course which starts in May 2005. B777 might get it sooner.

[Zomp]

good luck to you all, 6 month after you start you will all be crying that you have to wait 7+ years for your upgrade.
I hear on every flight :If I would have known I would have never left my previous job.

[ratpoison]

Such excitement for all. Let's all see how long the smile will stay on your faces after the sand settles. Do some serious homework lads before you make the move. Big shiney planes, max 8 days a month off and requiring permission from the headmaster to leave Dubai on these few days and total dictatorial rule. It will be a big ask for Pilot's to do, but start and pull the bloody blinds off your eyes.

[Mick Jagger]

It just never ceases to amaze me. We have Captains leaving to join the likes of Ryan Air ( no offence) We have guys giving up their commands to be Fos in other companies. We have pages of information about the demise of EK and STILL THEY COME!!!
Are you guys from another planet? If our guys that HAVE commands here are leaving what makes you think you are going to be so different?
Sometimes I despair! As a professional body we sometimes act like a bunch of bemused schoolkids.

Sit on your hands assess the facts then make an informed decision for you will certainly have time later to regret it.

Sorry didnt get layed last night;)

[flybystring]

Let me get this, GTP lives in the UK must have over 4000 Hrs a jet type rating and 2000 Hrs on Comercial aircraft. He is leaving his job to take up a position with EK to earn GBP 2319 per month or GBP 27800 at todays exchange rate. which he can earn in any UK jet operator and a few Turbo guys + approx a minimum of 600 quid a month flight pay. He is happy to wait 7+ years to get a command and does not mind working upto 50% more than he would be legaly allowed to do so in the UK for the salary. !

Oh add to that the 7 years may be optomistic because as the airline goes down the !!!!ter monthly in terms of the way its being run ,that he might be lucky if half the aeroplanes on order are not sold on to other operators as they were bought so cheaply, since all the US plans have been postponed maybe never to return.

I just dont get it myself, !

Just thought Id add the differance in pension contributions alone between EK and the average UK operator at 42K for an FO is 3100 GBP per Year as an FO and 5.9K as a CP on 66K .

[dicksynormous]

At last another thread goes down the emirates slagging route.
Dontya love em.;)

wise words mister jagger, ratpoison.

[Zomp]

during the last month a few EK captains left to be F/Os with virgin and dragon air. one left for a command with ryan.
a few EK F/os are leaving as well after they found out time to cammand is at least 5 years for them who joined a year ago, new joiners are looking for 7 years.
ek will continue to hire DEC because its much cheaper.
do your maths before you come guys.
EK was good untill 4 years ago then TCK came and had no union to fight with and he loved that.

[Badda Bing]

Anyone interviewed in December or January heard anything yet, and how long did it take ?

[Badda Bing]

Oh i forgot, they called all my references the week after my interview.

[BBJ King]

By all the negative posts towards EK it is quite obvious that many pilots are unhappy. BUT! Let's stick to the facts instead of talking garbage:
Fact. EK has about 1000 pilots and would like to have 2000. 1000 Capts/ 1000 FOs. Most Capts are 35-45. Few retirees. 3 years to upgrade?
T/C are constantly changing - unfortunately for the worse. Nothing you can do about it since you have a US$26000 bond + +,
Roster - Expect no more than 8-9 days off pr. month and lots of flying with very little rest. (double rest/ minimum rest)

My advice - Unless you are desperately looking for a job. At least talk to somebody down there before joining.

[Badda Bing]

Ok..let's stick to the facts...

I don't regard Ek as an airline that one has to be desperate before applying. I think each person is motivated by different reasons. It's not all about the upgrade and pay. Speaking about upgrades, there is no cross bidding for upgrades, so if u are on the Bus or Boeing, the upgrade depends entirely on the expansion of that particular fleet which may vary. Quality of life is different for everyone as well...definately depends on whether you are single or married/with kids. I have thought this through and think it's a good fit for me if the opportunity presents itself. And lastly out of the 1000 pilots at EK, how many post here? It seems that no airline in itself is the "best " place to be. Each has pluses and minuses. Seems that most people vent their frustrations on these forums just like my own airline's union website, but i think the bottom line is EK is not for everyone. I look at the opportunity to see if it works for me, having said that, if offered a job, i go in with an open mind and make the best of it. Despite the negatives, i think i'll enjoy it :) we'll see

[Mistah Kurtz]

Generally when you get the experience to move to the airlines like EK etc most pilots are looking for lifestyle, upgrades and other things may be secondary considerations.

What lifestyle do you get with the minimum eight days off each month? working 100 hours plus through the middle of the night? Having to ask permission to leave Dubai?

Roster stability, forget it! By the end of the month your roster will bear no resemblance to the roster that you bid for and were awaded at the start of the month.

The latest blow is despite being rostered for 100 hours or so of flying, instead of well earned days off, seemingly frivolous Reserve days or standbys are inserted into the roster because they no longer count towards your monthly productivity pay.

Ideally I would like to work in order to live the life I want, not the other way round living around work, constantly called by crewing on days off and trips always changing. Think hard

[Check 'Six']

Badda boom badda bing!

Enjoy the honeymoon period once you get accepted. Once you have settled in my friend, I give you anything from 6months to 18 months MAX. You will probably not post anything on prune, like most of my friends and colleagues. But unless you are joining as a DEC (Definately Not) you are in for an interesting time in your career choice.

Check your Six:ok:

[fullforward]

Is the coments above valid for Fos and DECs?
Cheers:confused:

[brette]

I must have been applying to the wrong companies can someone post a list of places I can upgrade in less than 7 years. I'm pretty sure it won't happen at Cathy, Dragon or even Virgin.Dosn't seem like Delta , AA or United will even hire in the next 7 years.

[Check 'Six']

The comments are for all unfortunately.

1. Is EK a good company? Yes. The majority of the people are really an excellent group of folks to work with. EK has the potential of being no 1 in the world because of it's employees.

2. So what's the problem? An epidemic that seems to plague many airlines today. Ill management! This comes in a variety of forms.

Just dont come here expecting the world! come here to get flying my friends, plenty thereof and then some. And as far as pay is concerned? Well, we used to earn significantly more with the overtime scheme in the past. But when the airline had to start forking out serious money in overtime, guess what? It changed. How convenient? Does this remind you of anything you might have experienced before? I am sure it has.

At least the housing is subsidized, it use to be provided but has since become subsidized. Why? Because rentals in Dubai have shot up significantly, and some of our colleagues here were told that they had to vacate these villas and move at their own expense. Or if they did not want to disrupt their families, they could stay, but!! Ah yes, the but and the if! Pay the difference, which is what most of us do for schooling as well. Schooling was once upon a time also covered, at least when I signed my contract.
Which brings me to an interesting point, the contract you sign is simply an exercise in wasting your time trying to convince them at some point in the future, that this was not in the contract you signed. Good Luck.

But, hey! Things can only get better!! My friends have grown tired of hearing me say that and quite frankly, so have I!!

Check your six.

[Jim Morehead]

this thread is interesting because it baffles me how so many people can come up with some many answers about EK. Even at China, the best of the grumblers could come up with some of the reasons why they didn't like it. There were many reasons to complain, but at least you hd facts.

Anybody want to jump on these observations?

I thought I read that EK had less than 1% of Americans. I think the reason is that most do not want to live in that part of the world for safety fears. Now how, do you tell an America and why would they be good targets?

When in CAL, there were Brits, Aussies, Canadians, Brazilians,etc. and now one could tell until they began to use the English language.
We all got along well. perhaps speaking English out in the streets may be a dead giveaway and the accent narrows it down further. So I am not sure if that is why so few Americans have an interest in being there. Obviously, you are just as vulnerable on a layover anywhere in the world if someone wanted you that badly. I just saw on TV where Suadi Arabia has a PR campaign to tell the world that we are "good guys" with a few bad terrorists here and there.

Now on the comment of not being able to leave on your days off, is that true? Is any permission needed if you buy your own ticket?

One of the negative things about Taiwan is that there is no system there and other places in the world to use the North American jumpseat program. Pilots of the US and other places believe that the jumpseat belongs to the Captain and its use is a right. In defense of Taiwan and other places, there are customs rules to follow,but these always could be worked out. Even a mandatory uniform requirement is a pain,but often it makes things go smoother after 9-11.

One of the most frustrating things about CAL is that it took a Congressional Amendment to leave on a jumpseat (non-existant), but a reduced fare ticket, or have passes what most airlines in the world seem to have as unlimited passes (with or without a service charge) and ZERO problems writing on a blank company issued ticket with no preparation necesssary. One should not have to buy a full fare ticket to leave and there should be no permisssion required. is that true at EK?

Now I don't know what EK has for a physical, but Taiwan has an extensive initial physical and fairly strict by world standards after the first one. The government did them.

At least one Japanese carrier requires cholesterol under 200 as a condition of emplyment. Now many people can NEVER meet this requirement unless they existed on a water diet and even that may not be possible. The rest of us have no interest in aiming for some arbitary goal. As you get older, everything gets different for when you were 21. I'd sure rather have a 50 year old Captain with a 250 Cholesterol than some 21 year old with 150 flying my jet.

I thought I read where EK had a bidding system. I find it interesting and really sad where places in the world have not discovered seniority and a bid system. One of the thing that dooms places like CAL is that they wouldn't put Americans back to America, Canadians to Canada, Brits to EUROPE, and things like that. They claimed a pilot shortage and when you want to work and the you get 65 hours of pay instead of 90 when sitting around days at a time. I always wanted to work (and get paid) rather than sitting around unproductive with my time. The 8 days off per month were very dear when they came especially when you couldn't get back to your country for 22 or 23 days. That was fixable easily.

I am not sure what EK did. They told me I was too old at 55, so I went nowhere with it. At 56, I am probably too old too! DUH....

On the upgrade issue, why aren't people being upgraded? Perhaps this is one reason to not take a job as a F/O unless you have to. There are jobs I am looking at now, that say, "c'mon, its only for a little while that you'll be a F/O". Most of the ex-pats I saw at CAL were Captains in their former lives although on different airlines and they were likely just as qualified as I was and certainly in a few years.

Is the complaint of NOT upgrading at EK, real or do some really have to make a self assessment of why they aren't getting upgraded?

Anyway, it should be really easy to reach some conclusions about EK from those who know,but the facts seem very elusive to this casual reader.

[BigGeordie]

To answer Jim's questions:

You need permission from the company to leave Dubai on days off (but not for annual leave) regardless of the type of ticket you are travelling on, or the airline you are travelling with. In practice permission is (correct me if I'm wrong guys) almost always granted. For now....

There is no jumpseat travel at EK. Only operating crew are allowed on the flight deck from pushback to chocks on.

Hope that's clear.:D

[Jim Morehead]

BIG Geordie...thanks for the info...Are EK worried about where their pilots are from a staffing point of view? Junior manning? Drafting? Extra Flights? is it a safety point of view?

<<<Only operating crew are allowed on the flight deck from pushback to chocks on.>>>

It is slightly off the subject, but you mentioned pushback to chocks on.

At China, they lock (electric on 747-400) door the minute the crew shows up to do a preflight and after the final checklist. I have never seen any carrier do that. Even the F/As have to knock or buzz to get in even :45 before DEPARTURE. You have to even buzz your own crew to get back to the cockpit :45 down to departure just to go to the bathroom.

Although my background is YANKEE,I have ridden on at least 15 international carriers. At all of them, most pilots like to stop in and say hello to pilots of another airline or country. Anyway just an observation

[CptKavla]

Badda Bing,
all I can say is that if you realy have good friends on the inside and if they realy like you, and want what is good for you, they will tell recruitment that you are totaly inept and make sure you are not recruited. In the long run, and even in the short term you will be better off staying were you are. I also came here and expected a great experience but instead I got to fly for Emirates.... What is consistent though within the airline is the new corporate marketing logo.... "Keep Discovering". You definetely are in for discoveries but unfurtunately they are not like the glossy pictures on the walls. You are completely on your own when things do not go as planned in all departments. Emirates is like all of Dubai in respect to after sales service, there is none since it is run by Subcontinent employees for Subcontinet consumers.... with Subcontinent expections and Subcontinent understanding. (I know I am politicaly incorrect but some times you have to call a spade a spade....)
As "Check Six" said great people to work with, good fun on the line (Maybe you can get lucky and get the cabin crew to come out and socialize, since most stay in their rooms to save their money, but hey EK management are about to introduce a new per diem system like the airlines in the former Soviet block with meal vouchers so the good thing of this new system might be that since no money can be taken back home we will all meet for a pint in the bar....) The aircraft are almost new so good fun there, you might get to fly the airbus and if you are as good as I am you will fly it in managed mode so that you do not get confused with the French version of aviation...
The Boeing Fleet is also good fun, though most of our real aviators are on that fleet.....
Emirates is going towards JAR OPS certification and though we cannot implement the FTLs or other aspects of JAR OPS right now since that would require additional pilots we have started with a JAA compliance look (Just Another Airline) to get people in the swing of things...
The two things I can quote to you come from the Book "All I realy need to know I learnt in Kindergarden" and the song "Sunscrean" "All that shines is not Gold, and the only realy good advice that I can give you is wear sunscrean"
So if you still want to join the award winning airline with the award winning service do not say that you have not been warned by those on the inside.
We all live here with the belief that one day soon things will get better and that management will understand what they are doing wrong and compensate us for what we are realy worth. Generaly people already here see Emirates for what it is but still expect to be treated for what it should be..... and are disapointed everytime they get what is coming and not what we diserve....
Cpt Kavla out
PS Some are talking about a 20% increase in salary,..... well if it does happen I would definetely welcome it, as that might start putting things on par with other airlines around the world but that will be the day Santa Claus comes and visits us in Dubai....:cool: :cool:

[uplock]

Sorry BigGeordie

Had Leave booked last year, had the misfortune to become ill longer than 2 days company would not let me leave Dubai until a clearance was received from the EK clinic, even though the Dr said it was fine to travel.

Clearance to leave Dubai for my leave was received at 4pm on the day before my leave was to commence.

Not what you really want when you book and plan leave, accommodation and travel arrangements months in advance with you and yours only to be told you can not leave Dubai until the company says its ok.

Keep Discovering

[ratpoison]

Cpt Kavla,

Just sweet wine from thy finger tips. Bloody well put.
Yes, 'KEEP DISCOVERING' Ha Ha ha Ha Ha

Rat

[typhoonpilot]

I thought I read that EK had less than 1% of Americans. I think the reason is that most do not want to live in that part of the world for safety fears. Now how, do you tell an America and why would they be good targets?

Hi Jim: Where have you been hiding the last few months ?

EK has just over 2% American flight crew right now with more coming. You can easily tell an American walking down the street, he'll be the one with Levi's blue jeans, a t-shirt, and white tennis shoes :D

On the upgrade issue, why aren't people being upgraded? Perhaps this is one reason to not take a job as a F/O unless you have to.

Guys on the Airbus can not do transition upgrades to the Boeing and vice versa. This is an edict by the SVP E&O. As EK are getting mostly Boeings this year, the guys on the Airbus will not upgrade while the guys on the Boeing do. What makes this really bad is that EK will run out of qualified Boeing F.O.s before the end of the year. They will then resort to hiring Direct Entry captains while the Airbus F.O.s must sit in their seat and wait a few extra years until an Airbus upgrades comes along. Hopefully sanity will prevail and transition upgrades will be allowed, otherwise there are going to be some really unhappy campers in the right seat of the Airbus.


TP

[rainforest]

Guys, the transition upgrades was stopped during TCK's time. At that time , a lot of guys on the Boeing were left behind for the upgrades. Now, it seems that the opposite will happen. Well, I think this is not foreign in big outfit like EK, the only thing missing from it is the by-pass pay ( my previous company have them ).
With 48 upgrades this year, I don't think we will run out of experienced FOs on the Boeing as yet. Lots of rated guys just joined recently........thats why its been very quiet on the DEC front !

[Check 'Six']

Cpt Kavla,

Very well put Sir. Very well put.

With regards to Santa Claus visiting Dubai, he did once. He dropped off a note with a code written inside. The code read "B.O.H.I.C.A" Any idea what this means? :E

And 20% increase. Well the government employees will definately get that. And good for them. :ok: We will be told that we are lucky to have a job by some management types and by the management aswell! The only increase we will get my friend is in blood pressure!

Yes, so we were once known as the 'Finest in the Sky' and today we are told, "keep discovering" new ways to make you "lazy pilots" work.

Check Six Chaps, tally ho!

[papara]

Cpt Kavla you are simply kavla!Dont you agree Check "Six"?

[Badda Bing]

Capt Kavla and the rest of the guys,

I just want to thank you for your candidness and honesty, I don't think it's a great situation either, I am really thinking about my decision. I didn't mean to reenergize the topic of EK when i asked if anyone had heard from recruitment regarding DEC and JAN interviews :) I am seriously weighing my options, and i thank each of you for your input, i appreciate it! I guess if iam offered a position and a comitted decision has to be made, i'll do the right thing for me and my personal circumstances.

[Oblaaspop]

Ok, a few facts and a different point of view perhaps!

It is certainly true that your personal situation makes a big difference to the package when considering whether to move over to DXB.

I have a missus and 2 kids, the company pays for the schooling (and yes the education allowance does cover all the fees), I live in a huge villa (5 bedrooms/7bathrooms - yes we were lucky!) wich the company pays for (all of it!) and I dont pay for electricity, water, gas, or phone (EK pays), I get driven to and from work which means we only need 1 car (unlike the UK!) and the staff travel system is far superior to anything I've seen before!

Yes it is true that on face value the pay is crap for F/O's (about 2500 quid pm at todays exchange rate), however given the info above (ie what you earn is essentially spending money) you'd have to be a moron to think you are better off in the UK, as back home I reckon I had about 8 quid left at the end of the month! (not to mention the very low cost of living here compared to the UK)

With regards to days off, and I can only speak for myself on the Airbus, in Jan (I was top bid group admittedly) I had 16 days off (no leave just days off). This month I am bottom bid but still managed 10 days off (I think you other guys better learn to bid properly!). And anyway, what amazing airline did you guys all spring from where you all got considerably more than 8 days a month off (a non profitable one no doubt).

On the subject of profit, before I joined EK, I was with MYT, a company we all know has been teetering on the edge of self destruction for the last couple of years, and believe me it was not a nice feeling for me and my family, not knowing if the mortgage was gonna be paid at the end of the month! Its nice now to work for a company thats actually expanding.

Commands: it is true that time to command has increased signifacantly (forget the 3 year commands of old), but this is purely a function of the airline taking longer to double in size. Traditionally EK has doubled in size every 2 years, hence the quick commands, but with 80 a/c currently, its gonna be another 7 years before its twice the size it is today! Just pure mathmatics, so guys who joined last year are probably looking at 5 years to command...FACT! BUT, as someone already stated what fictional MAJOR airline (appart from Ettihad before some smart arse say's it), could you get a wide-body command in less than that time???

(BTW whoever said it is cheaper to employ DEC's than upgrade F/O's obviously doesn't have a scooby! DEC's start on at least capt payscale 4, so everything about them is considerably more expensive- including the training)

All I will say to the wingers (and trust me EK has its fair share), please do try and remember what it is like in the real world, as obviously you have forgotten!!

Before I get shot down in flames by the perpetual moaners (I doubt they'ed be happy anywhere otherwise surely they would have left by now??????). This post was just to redress the balance a little. EK is NOT without its (minor) problems, and as I mentioned it depends on your personal circumstances as to whether you can 'milk' as much as you can out the company.....Family guys win, single guys loose (appart from the shagging of course in UP towers!) simple as that.

Good luck to all the guy's (and hopefully girls some day), who have interviews, dont let the miserable gits get you down!!

Right, I'm off down the beach!

Cheers

BTW. did I mention the sun shines a lot here???

[max AB]

OBLAASPOP...no you didn't mention the sun...but next time you're out in it, try wearing a hat...

[Dropp the Pilot]

Dear Max:

Oblaas rightly judges it would take a moron to think you would be better off in the UK.

From the incisive brillliance of your riposte may we assume you are moving to blighty in the near future?

I think we should be told.:cool:

[Mistah Kurtz]

Oblaaspop don't know how long you've been here but whatever chemicals they're pumping into your Air Conditioning, it must be good stuff:D :D :D

[Badda Bing]

Come on Guys! Every positve opinion ( and that's what it is, some individua'ls opinion) is shot down but the negative ones just seem to breed more negatives. Some may not agree but give the guys that do enjoy working at EK a break, like i said before everyone's situation is different and one man's garbage may be another's treasure, simple as that.

By the way.... I got offered a job !

[Check 'Six']

Opblaas pop, dit klink baie lekker!

One question only, how long have you been here? I just want to ascertain whether the honeymoon period is still in progress or not?

And whilst you are out there riding your white horse like St George! Remember this, Far greater a man has walked this path before thee and for a lot longer! So wind your neck in a few inches when refering to other colleagues' past lives. Ek only wants experienced people and that has always been the case. Most complaints about the company do not refer to money matters only. Yes a salary increase (20% plus) is well overdue, however a little bit of goodwill goes a long way. Of which there is none forth coming from this lot over here.

Check Six Boet!!

[Oblaaspop]

Check Six...

Perhaps I am still in the 'Honeymoon Period', however having 'been around a bit' in this industry, I do feel quallified to give a balanced judged 'oppinion'. But I do of course bow to your vastly superior knowledge of EK (You didnt write the SOP's by chance did you, seeing how worldly wise you are and all).

I DID say that EK wasn't without its problems (and neither is Dubai for that matter), but compared to many other airlines, these probs are miniscule, just ask the guys in any US carrier, Air Jamaica, MYT etc.......

Before I 'wind my neck in' after my balanced post, may I respectfully suggest you introduce some more balance in to your life, and place a chip on the other shoulder!!!!!!!!;)

The point remains, if it is so crap here, then bugger off somewhere else so I can move 1 place further up the seniority list and get an upgrade a month sooner. (Trust me we'd all be a lot happier)

See ya.

[ratpoison]

Obla,

Please tell us all what a deal you have so that " the company pays for your phone". And by the way, what school does your kids go to where one is not out of pocket and the "company pays for all that too". Sounds as though you aint on the same deal as the other 1100 or so !!!!!!!!!!!

[Check 'Six']

Well, well opblaas. Your suggestion for me to pack my bags and leave so that you can move up in life explains it all for me! And if you would like to compare notes on experience sometime, I would be more than happy to put you in your place, anytime.

SOP writting? No I cant say I have had the pleasure.

So enjoy your honeymoon, and as long as you are happy with your lot in life, that's good. I will just make sure that you dont walk behind me, whilst crossing a busy street!

I'll be Checking my Six from the likes of you!:ok:

[Oblaaspop]

Rat,

Company pays phone line rental charge, and all local calls are free anyway. Long distance/ international we pay for, but then I wouldn't expect EK to, would you??

My kids go to Horizon...... Next Question????????????

Check,

The whole point is, I'M NOT THE ONE COMPLAINING, I'm sorry you dont seem to think anyone is entitled to be happy out here. True I've only been here for a year or so, obviously nowhere near the 106 years you have been and I dont have 26 million hours in 47 different airlines like you, I merely stated that if you really are that unhappy with your lot then go somewhere else, very simple really!!!

If you can't stand the heat then get out the desert!!

I really dont want to get into a slagging match with you guys, we all work for the same firm and we should all be able to get on, however I feel it is very unfair to peeps who are looking at comming out here to only see one side of a very long complex story hence I offer my point of view. The fact is the VAST majority of the guys I fly with are happy here (although you're bound to dissagree-now there's a surprise!), and the very person who persuaded me to come here in the first place has been here 7 years!

Also why the hell would I want to sit down with you and listen to your worldly experience, I might end up as bitter and twisted as you....:cool:

[Check 'Six']

Much better amigo!

I agree that all the folks out there who wish to come here are welcome. However, they must know that with time spent here, certain realities and facts of EK life must be known. These are not complaints but experience that comes from coming here myself "106 million"years ago as you put it, and also being in the honeymoon phase. Oh yes! Big time honeymoon my friend and esteemed colleague, I was over the moon to be here. Now having always been a very optimistic and positive person, I have become rather cynical. Why?

Simple really, I did not consider myself as a contract pilot when I came here 11 years ago (My fault). And now I look at how greed and fear motivation has set in with the whole set up here, that it concerns me very much. Hopefully our leaders will hear our concerns, but as has been proven time and time again, it falls on deaf ears. The standard reply is.....If you dont like it leave! Yes I would very much like too. And there are always options in life.

Okay!?

Time will tell! Once again, enjoy the honeymoon. Mine lasted 6 years!! I hope yours lasts for ever. And I sincerely mean that! ;)

No hard feelings! I mean, after all we will at some point be sharing that little office of ours in the sky sometime! See Ya!

Check Six :cool:

[Oblaaspop]

Indeed no hard feelings, and your point is taken on board.

I too hope that I continue to enjoy it here (after all I do have well over 2 decades left until retirement), and I am genuinely sorry that you do not like it here as much as you once did. Lets hope the supposed huge pilot pool dries up and no-one joins, only then will the T's and C's improve back towards where they should be! Unfortunately it will mean harder work for us all in the short term!

Take it easy!!

[Check 'Six']

I hope so too my brother!

All the best!

Check Six!

[ratpoison]

I believe I'm getting all emotional.

[Check 'Six']

We love you too rat!:}

Cheers:ok:

[CptKavla]

Oblaaspop,
I am very happy you are having a ball here and it is great to hear that you are enjoying Dubai life.
You are however comparing apples with oranges. MYT is a littlle outfit in the UK with huge financial problems flying holidaymakers around the med and other holiday destinations some where in the world for specific tour operators for minimal money. This probably explains why you have such low expectations from Emirates and for lifestyle all together. Emirates cannot be compared with the likes of MYT, Monarch, Britannia, etc, although some of the above are much better to work for...... Emirates is an ""award winning"" airline with global aspirations, with aviation world firsts with massive orders and with huge profits. (So they say, so I will go along with it) If Emirates is treating us like they do today, Imagine what is going to happen when they start losing money....(and trust me it will happen as it happens to all airlines eventualy)
You might be lucky as you say and have a great villa and all is rosy for you, but what about the guys who were kicked out of their villa over the holidays with one months notice and no financial backing from the company? (They had been here for a long time, and these guys did not write the SOPs nor did they deserve this treatment for good loyal years to Emirates. This would have never happened in a realy good company, but then again we are almost in the Subcontinent.....) Do you think it is not going to happen to you? What about the Exchange rate protection that used to be with no upper limits and it changed for all of the guys overnight who were here before you? Do you seriously believe that they will not change the contract in the future to suit them? What about the new terms and conditions regarding overtime? Do you seriously believe that the new system is fair and just? Do you think we should not get credit for standby days? Do you think we should not get credit for working in the office? Do you think you should not get paid when you are called in to do support simulator? Do you think that working 900 hours block time and getting 35 % less with the new systemthan the old system is the way forward? Do you seriously believe that the way forward is working your ass off to get what you earned 5 years ago with less work? Do not tell me that this is the future in aviation because it is not the way most of us see it. You on the other hand might like to torture yourself and enjoy flying 900 hours on the back side of the clock in which case you should request all the subcontinent flights... Hey it will be part of your corporate induction of "Keep Discovering". Maybe this is the future for the likes of MYT or Easyjet etc, but that is why most of us did not join those outfits, nor do we want to join those outfits. Emirates attracted us here because they claimed to be on par with the other true global players of aviation. BA, Virgin, Cathay and others have changed their T&Cs for the new guys not for those who joined the airline earlier. (Virgin by the way has improved their T&Cs as they expand and get bigger, so employees enjoy the benefits of their hard work...)
If you want to come down here and fly for free I could care less. If you love sleeping on the airplane and you are happy to work for less go ahead (While you are at it give us your profit share this year, and get those guys who you claim are enjoying Emirates to pitch in <they might of course be DECs so pass, or of course if you tell them how great it is here they probably see in you the nect TCK so they do not need to get hauled in to the office to facilitate your way up the corporate ladder>).
What those of us who have realy been around are saying is that Emirates might look like a national flag carrier, it might claim to be one, but it does not treat it's people as one. You do not know what it means to fly for a Flag carrier as you have only flown for the likes of MYT. You are not an expert on conditions of carriers like BA, Virgin, Cathay, United, South African Airways, Airfrance etc.
You can only compare apples with oranges, so before you get all excitted and have an opinion about what aviation is all about go back to the UK (On your 15 days off, and ask one of the BA or Virgin long haul pilots to tell you what it is all about)
You might have airplane experience, you might be good with reading manuals and SOPs (Hey I am sure you are much better than me at airmanship) but you are an adolescent when it comes to knowing what is good and what is bad because just like teenagers you have seen a little bit and you think you know the world.....
Either arrogant or naive, but too stuck up to see it, and so you will go on and learn the hard way through University of Hard Knocks what Emirates career holds for you.....
:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

[BusyB]

CptKavia,

Your words

"Cathay and others have changed their T&Cs for the new guys not for those who joined the airline earlier"

only go to show

"You are not an expert on conditions of carriers like BA, Virgin, Cathay,"

I'm not an expert on EK but I can assure you CX have broken my contract, for the worse, 3 times since 1993.
I hope your facts about EK are more accurate!

[Shake]

BusyB;

Breach of contract is one thing, the bottom line is the other and EK is at the bottom of any of the payscales of the carriers you mentioned.

As far as I am aware both BA and Virgin have not breached any contract made with their pilots, to do so would lead to legal repercussions. This does not mean that changes have not been made but any that have have not been made arbitrarily without consulation with the pilot body...unlike EK which can, has and continues to impliment changes as and when it likes.

Well said Kavia.

[CptKavla]

BusyB,
Emirates never has and never will pay what Cathay A scale or even B scale pays. My next door neighbour in the Uk is ex Cathay A scale and earned around 20000 GBP back in 97. Back in 97 Emirates Captains were earning just over over 20000 Dirhams so a huge difference there.... He also left with a golden hand shake of 3 million pounds..... Ah I only wish..... it probably explains why some of our guys who have the balls to make a move are going to Dragon Air as F/Os and leaving a current Command with Emirates.....
I am not expecting these guys to make a difference here, nor will things change for the better because these guys are leaving. I, just like so many others here are looking for better opportunities, and believe me they are popping up, so I guess one of the good things about the future is that command might be quicker for those joining not only because of expansion but also because of attrition.... But if you think that getting your command with Emirates will solve all your problems, or that it is career long move then seriously good luck with your thinking...:cool: :cool:

[BYMONEK]

CptKavla

Why do you have to 'believe' what Emirates tell you when they 'say' they're making record profit.Surely you were able to see it for your own eyes last year when your bank balance increased by an additional 10 weeks pay? That is probably why your 'next door neighbour' from Cathay who earned the big bucks is....your next door neighbour! If things really are as bad as you say then why are there guys here from the wonderful world of Virgin and B.A and SAA and i'm not talking DEC's either.You criticize Oblaaspop, rather rudely, for being arrogant or naive yet it is you who are both. Arrogantly believing that you are entitled to earning the big bucks like your Cathay friend and naively believing that there are Airlines out there that pay them.
Oblaaspop may have only been here a year and having worked for MYT,may not have enjoyed the best T & C's but at least he had the guts to do something about it and leave an Employer that wasn't meeting his expectations.
Perhaps YOU should take a leaf out of his 'less experienced book' and do the same.

[tupac]

HI ALL

I HAVE JUST GOT STBY INTERVIEW FROM EMIRTES CAN ANY BODY TELL MEWHAT TO EXPECT FROM EMIRATES.

I APPRECIATE ANY ASSISTANCE.

THANKS

[ratpoison]

Tupac,

I think you better hit your back button and have a read.


Check Six,

Ta for the expression of love, I'm heading off to the Souk for an engagement ring !!!!

[BusyB]

Shake and CptKavia,

Just read what I wrote. I'm not telling you about Emirates, BA or Virgin. I'm telling you that what you said about Cathay is wrong.

Thats it. Simple.

Bye

[Shake]

BB:

Realise that Cathay was/is the exception...sorry.

[SecurID]

Despite the ramblings above, the facts are that over the years it has got more expensive to live here in Dubai. We are getting less money in relative terms than ten years ago, the only pay rise being dependant upon promotion, and I am working nearly 40% harder to earn the pay these days. I am constantly tired and get sick more frequently. These are the facts everyone, which is why many are saying here that things have changed for the worse for those of us that have been here a while, therefore why would it not be any different for those wanting to join?

My personal advice to any prospective new joiner is take note of all of the above comments by EK pilots and then consider that the positive comments seem to be coming from relatively new joiners, the negative from old timers. Sorry if that phrase offends any of my colleagues! It is only a contract job, despite the trimmings, and there are better jobs now available so bear that in mind when you apply, the goalposts do seem be on a sliding track here and they move with incredible regularity. But should you get to the interview stage, be prepared and when asked if you have any questions, you could ask about the 15 Airbus training captains effectively fired, despite the airline advertising for Boeing trainers. Also ask why so many of the recruitment team have resigned and enquire after the status of the standards group and why their pilots have resigned as well. All is not happy in this particular ship, believe me.

Comparing any airline to another is fraught with problems, what we can compare our terms and conditions with is what they used to be like here!

The proof of the discontentment will always be revealed by the numbers leaving, it seems that this may have begun. This may not worry Emirates at the moment as not that many will actually leave and in any case Emirates seems to attract pilots like bees to a honey pot, but just remember that we were those bees once. But I can't help but wonder who the 17 pilots are that applied to VS this year so far? Are they the same pilots on the hold list for interviews with Dragonair? But then what do expect as when you discuss the possibility of moving on with management, they just shrug and say that they can't blame you!

It may not be long before the competition / the falling revenues / the fuel prices / a catastrophic event put paid to the dream and the belts start to really tighten. So in this year, another year of record profits, do those of us here really see our employer as benevolent and caring? What will happen when the belts really tighten?

We used to be Emirates, The Finest In The Sky, The Award Winning Airline. Somehow we have become just another airline. And that is a massive shame as almost without exception, we were once all very proud to work for Emirates.

[helen-damnation]

An interesting aside!
Allegedly - a pilot recently called crewing saying he was fatigued and could'nt do a flight. Crewing said 'we'll mark you sick'.
No, I'm fatigued!
Que - AAR doing the wall of death around his office screaming 'Fire him, Fire him'.
Seemingly, some delicate words and his job was saved.
Can't prove it, but in the present climate it's VERY possible.
Not a nice feeling here at the moment.:sad:

[Check 'Six']

Rat, you had better wait before you go shopping for that ring darling. The news thus far on profitshare is not looking all that rosey! I mean really, what can you buy on only 2weeks bonus?!

Okay now, let us summarize what has been discussed so far.

We have the "newly weds" and the öld timers" on "honeymoon" all carrying a basket of "apples and oranges" living in DisneyLand" Arguing about who is right or wrong! And along comes the "Global Nomad" bringing with him Mr. "Reality" and summoning upon the Grim Reaper himself to appear, none other than "411A". Man this is good stuff!

:}

[donpizmeov]

So in the last 12months, we have had:

1. Flight duty limits change;
2. Most of the Bus fellas now MFFing on three different aircraft,
3. New bid system; and
4. New way of calculating pay.

Now none of these were for the better. Points 1 thru 3 are saving the company bucket loads of money. They reduce the numbers of pilots required to get the job done. But if you chat to any of the drivers after returning from PVG, MNL or HKG Via Bkk with only two up the front, you will see that legal does not always mean safest.
But as a way of thanking the pilot body for taking all these changes on the chin. Along comes point No.4, a pay cut. Excellent. Luckily no-one else in the EKgroup has also had to have the pay cut enforced. I guess this goes hand in hand with the pilot meeting quote of quotes stating that pilot pay would not be considered in isolation to the rest of the group. But we can all feel warm inside knowing that our pay cut is now funding the record profit for the company. We are all soo proud.
Now, whenever anyone mentions that they are a bit peeved at how the company has done this to the pilot group, we get some response stating that we are malcontents. This seems to come mostly from those who have just finished unpacking after arriving, and are who still trying to prove to themselves, and former work mates family etc, that they did not make a mistake from coming over to the sand. Then again it might just be from drop the pilot who is still a bit upset on how an airline in Canada did not drop everything and offer him a job, because, after all, he does fly seriously large aircraft!
Facts are that being a pilot with EK is just another job. Better than some it would seem, and maybe not quite as good as others, but very hard to decide. I would think that an FO would have to think very hard before coming here now, as a command, although quicker than established flag carriers, will lag behind the airline down the road, where joiners will have a seniority number in the low hundreds as opposed to the low to mid thousand here.
Yes workmates are top class, and yes the equipment is all shiney, and yes the route network is good fun. But with conditions being eroded at the present rate, it may soon be well pass its useby date.
Don

[ratpoison]

Check Six,

Ha Ha Ha, good to see a few of the lads can still have a laugh eh.

[Check 'Six']

Very good post Donpiz!! :ok:

Hey Ratpoison! :ok: Absolutely my friend, without humour in this business and we would all go off the deep end!!:}

By the way, the profit share rumour network has worked it's way up to 4 weeks now!! hehehe!

Check Six lads, BOHICA is on it's way again!!

[SecurID]

But Only Had I Caught Arthritis?

Babes On Hand In Cabin Attendants?

Bad Odour Heading Into Cockpit Area?

Bus Or HGV If Certifying Again?

Breathless On Hearing Initiative Cast Aside?

Bidding Only Happens If Company Allows?

Aaaah, Could this be it....

Bend Over Here It Comes Again?

[Check 'Six']

BINGO!!:ok:

It's that time of the year again I'm afraid!

[sluggums]

Time to nip off to HQ and get your EK sponsored, in Arsenal colours of course, jar of Vaselene:E

[SecurID]

C6 and Slugs, are you hinting at possible ammendments or alterations to out Ts & Cs? If so, please enlighten us all in order that we may make informed choices.

BINGO??

But I Never Got Offerred! Well aren't you the very lucky ones!! :}

[Check 'Six']

Secure ID my friend,

The government staff are to get 20 %, we are going to get stuff all!!

The payroll section is guessing a 2weeks bonus minimum!

And our friend TRIMOTOR has a very good point, I have heard the same. Brimg in low time pilots, just like we were once upon a time! When we first started our careers.

Not looking good for the bank balance this year AGAIN!

Cheers.