Al-Khobar Killings

[mutt]

My thoughts and prayers go to the family and friends of the people killed in AlKhobar this morning. :(


Mutt.

[bluesafrica]

It sure starts to look that time to leave has arrived...
Blues

[Engineer]

Personal view is that the Bush Blair team should leave the political stage

The so called war on terror is not working and for the common man on the ground this is the true reality of what their policy generates.

[HE SLAM!]

Engineer,

Why do you say that? To leave more room to those barbaric guys to legitimate terror and finally recognize Al Queda as a winner?
:mad: :mad:

[mutt]

Engineer,

It has nothing to do with UK policy, a German national working for Saudi Arabian Airlines was gunned down in Riyadh last week. These terrorists want to destabilize the country, they dont ask for passports before they kill people. :(


Mutt.

[JonBoy80]

Terroism doesnt choose who to kill, they choose what makes political leaders tick. Obviously its working, but at the death of innocent workers.. I would admitt, all govts are the same. They want power and they are playing with fire at the moment..

[Loc-out]

You may think things are bad now. Give in (capitulate) to terroism and things will be 10 times as bad, believe me.

[MD11Flyer]

Well in the first Gulf War my friend (from Greece who was living in Kuwait City) had his home invaded by Iraqi's. But was not killed because he produced a passport saying he was Greek. These are terrorists they work differently. They take no hostages and show no mercy and I don't think the US or UK should either. Why follow the Geneva convention when your enemy isn't even part of it!

[maddog62]

Why follow the Geneva convention when your enemy isn't even part of it!

Because we are better than them..........

[StressFree]

Mad Dog,
We are of course better than them but sometimes that isn't enough.

These people are extremists and maybe the only way to beat them is to be more extreme than them, clearly us playing by the rules and hoping that we will prevail isn't working.
Personally I've found that allowing people to preach hatred against the nation that gave them sanctuary, as happens in London, utterly ridiculous. I don't care about all the lefties who bang on about free speech, these people and any who support them should be locked up.............

:*

[bugg smasher]

Mutt,

What's the mood like around Saudia City at the moment? Is everyone gearing up to leave, or do expats still feel relatively safe in Jeddah?

[desert_knight]

I never cease to be amazed by the ignorance of people to the situation in the Middle East - but all feel free to give their expert knowledge on how to deal with it.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, the current policy of the Bush administration is doing more to support recruitment and de stabalise the region than Al Queda could ever have hoped for.

The American's and Britis fought a fine war but the politicians appeared to have no game plan as to what they would do afterwards.

Until the Americans get to grips with the real problems in the Middle East and stop pandering to the Israeli Lobby then little will change.

Ask yourself just how desperate you would have to be to strap explosives to your chest and blow yourself apart? I do not condone it or claim to understand why they do it, but it does make me ask the question why??

As for the Geneva convention, it is not clear to me that EITHER side are sticking to it............

Anyway, enough of my inane ramblings, i've only been here 12 years, what do I know.

[MD11Flyer]

Not good for Saudi, since 60% of those working in the oil industry there are foreign.

[Fox3snapshot]

The problems in Saudi have been festering since they day it was conceived, and if you know your history books you will know who installed Ibn Saud and the House of Saud as we know it know today. For those who don't know its worth reading up on as a lot of the anti Western sentiment that exists today was a result of the manipulation by the Brits and the US of the politics in this region, and importantly the nuts and bolts of Osama Bin Laden's grievences.

Know before anyone bleats that I am sympathising with the militants, think again I am merely providing some background to the current crisis. The way Osama and his thugs have dealt with the problems are of course disproportionate.

The Saudi attacks have been going on in one form or another for decades, not always on such a scale and certainly not always against western interests, but certainly the opression that the Saudi Government has placed on their society has at times come back and bitten them on butts.

The militants are now using the current crisis in the Middle East and its global implications, to maximise the effectiveness of their campaign and this recent tradgedy will not be the end of it.

:(

[Deske]

Can these attacks appear in other gulf countries in the future?

I mean Dubai,Qatar,Bahrein

[Fox3snapshot]

As the world found out, the arm of terrorism can reach anywhere in the world at anytime.

There are travel warnings and expat resident warnings active for all of the Middle East countries issued by most western embassies, the most recent from Oz specific to UAE. Sometimes they are a kneejerk to a particular event, but often they are based on information provided by the relevent government INTEL gathering mechanisms or by government sponsored global security groups.

It always pays to be a little careful and keep a low profile regardless of where you are in the Middle East at the moment.

:ooh:

[Loc-out]

desert_knight

Read your post with interest. However as US President GW put it and I quote "you are either with us or against us". When you come down off the fence, which side will you come down on?

Forget about rules. There are no rules in war, when an enemy will not ware a uniform. They should be treated as spies, pure and simple.

[MD11Flyer]

Well UAE has already declared that it is against what these terrorists are doing because it is against the islamic teachings. Truth is many terrorists sought by the US were originally from the UAE. So in my opinion UAE should be the safest city in the world (don't know if it is or not) I heard Bin Laden was in Dubai a while ago or is he still hiding in cave 23?:)

[mutt]

Bugg Smasher,

Enjoying a long vacation, havent seen the place in six weeks. But i certainly do not believe that people are running from Jeddah.

SV City, like many of the compounds in Jeddah are protected by armed military. I'm therefore surprised that this wasnt the case in Khobar.

Unfortunately the American killed by related to a colleague :(


MD11Flyer,

Thought that the US were looking for Saudi nationals, not UAE nationals.

Mutt.

[BahrainLad]

However as US President GW put it and I quote "you are either with us or against us".

Unfortunately this simple statement strikes right at the heart of the "sit on the fence" mentality that makes up the foundation of society, politics and economics of the entire Middle East.

[MD11Flyer]

Well I remember a few times where the US were looking for terrorists from Egypt, Saudi, Syria and UAE

[Deske]

What about Qatar?

:uhoh:

[MD11Flyer]

Never heard of any people being sought from Qatar or Bahrain

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

If its a choice between sitting on the same side of the fence as George W, and sitting on the other side with the terrorists, I would have no choice but to sit on the fence. Both sides of the fence are distasteful. I am never one to blame the people of a country for the policy of ones government, but I am constantly astounded that Americans still think you can defeat terror by engaging in state sponsored terror, or supporting implicitly state sponsored terror (ie. Israel). There is outcry at a terrorist attack on an Expat compound in Saudi (and rightly so), but where is the outcry from those same people when a raid on a Palestinian town, "accidentally" kills women and children, while seeking out "terrorists". Oh sorry that is considered to be "collateral damage".

[HE SLAM!]

AT LEAST THERE IS A"oups sorry, mistake we will investigate that mistake"
instead of dancing and singing around mutilated body....and appealing for more carnage... :confused:
are you guys blinds????????:(

[Deske]

The Guaridian,Friday May 21 2004,page 17:

War on terror-Lies about crimes

"....when Iraqis are blown apart in Baghdad by a car bomb or Israelis in Haifa by a suicide bomber these are instantly and correctly labelled as terrorist attacks.However when American helicopters or Israeli tanks cause death to innocent civillians on a similar case,there is always an alternative version on offer."


"...at least in this week's pronouncement by Rabbi Dov Lior,head of the council of rabbis in the occupied territories.This spiritual leader,quoted in Ha'aretz,has declared that Israeli lives are more precious than Palestinian ones.The Jewish faith ,he says allows killin 'allegedly innocent civilians ' in battle."


Anyone can check it.I am living in an East European country where to say the same ,I can get the cause of "anti-semitism" as our great Prime Minister (KGB agent 20 years ago) signed the U.S. supporting letter together with 7 other government ,before the Iraqi war.

And yes,I know you get bored,but I have got an offer from Qatar Airways,but I am afraid to accept it as I don't know if these attacks might be happen there in the future.I have to resign from my job to go to QR and I am very desperate about the coming years in the Gulf Area.

The key factor to the so called terrorism is the palestinian conflict for more than 50 years.As all of You,I also dont want to be a victim of unjustified occupation that is NOT my interest.The small nations (including mine) has experience about the given word of the "Free World". :yuk:

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

are you guys blinds????????

No last time I checked I was not "blinds" or any other variety of window covering. :hmm:

Yes, there was a full and comprehensive investigation when the unarmed protester dressed in a fleurescent orange vest to identify him as such, was shot by an Israeli army sniper and killed in the West Bank. The Israeli armed forces did an internal investigation and found that the protestor was seen to be armed and a threat, when all eye witnesses said he was in fact running out unarmed to try and save a child from the gun fire.

Terrorism is never right, whether the orders are signed by Osama Bin Laden, George W Bush, or Ariel Sharon.

[Fox3snapshot]

Just trying to remember who trained Osama and quite a few of his cronies....ummm oh that's right I remember now! and weren't the Taliban the good guys at one stage and didn't the US support Saddam in the Iran/Iraq war....well I'm a little lost!

:ugh:

[Engineer]

Mutt

Yes I know about the German in the drive by shooting week last Saturday as well the the raid that resulted in the death of three people in Northern Riyadh. It is because of these incidents that I find myself unable to walk in the streets there.

You said that they did not ask for passports but in Al Khobar they asked if you were arab and muslim. This was confirmed by checking the Iqamas of each person and making them recite a surah from the Qur'an. That is very selective.

Wonder if GWB or TB will remember these names in the next move in the war on Terror

Lawrence Gregory
Pradeep Kumar
Jain Jose
Clephen Carlos
Andhra Pradesh
Joe Fernandez
Suresh Kumar
Tola Ram all Indian

Chandana Pradeep Anthony Sri Lankan

Magnuss Johanssson Swede

Felician Dizon
Joel Guiray
Mariano Cabasag all Filipino

Michael Hamilton British

or the 10 year old Egyptian boy along with an Italian, South African an American another Sri Lankan plus the 3 Saudis.

Sure these two guys will stand up in their respective seat of government and send out sympathy to the families of the above then get right back to business

Such crocodile tears but the above deaths can all ways be attributed to that eloquent phase Collateral Damage.

[HE SLAM!]

Yeah ! They will remember those names !!! And all those 3000 other names that were in the World Trade Center. You guys are talking a lot about Palestine conflict, why don't you talk about the Arab militia's doing in Sudan !
:suspect:

[doubleu-anker]

HE SLAM

Quite right. OBL and his cronies started this war on 9/11.

If war is what they want, war is what they are getting. Keep it up GW and TB.

[ijp]

My belief is that we are going about this wrong. Look back at the japs in WWII, the suicide Kamakazi. Look what stopped them! these people are not afraid to die, they look foreward to it! Things that they treasure mut be threatened. We could start with all the holy sites. The first to go would be the large mosque in Jerusalem, then maybe the Kaaba in Mecca, then one by one until certain criminals were turned in, and all this BS stopped, systematic elimination of all holy sites. Not one soul need die.

[MD11Flyer]

Well this isn't a holy war, although the idiots think so. Why eliminate all the holy sites? You think non terrorists are gonna let you just take away their place to pray... that would start a holy war for sure. People have every right to pray to their God and build whatever they want. Its not the building that is causing this... its the minds of a few individuals who have lost some screws over the years. Many of them taught to hate from birth.... If anything, we should sterolize those doing so, preventing them from infesting the world with more idiots.

[Deske]

ijp


Yeah what a great idea!Go there and destroy the whole islam culture!

You are very soft my friend.Drop the nukes down ,destroy all the muslim cities one by one!

Death to all who dont want to live according to the standards of the "Free World"!

:yuk:

You should be an adviser for GWB as well as Sharon ,the job is open for You or even the next President in the US.

Nice,new world!Everything started,they hit back.

It is not a surprise,if any other country comes to my land,destroying my house,killing my family,yes it would be not so hard to teach me to hate from heart and the purpose of my remaining live is to take as manyas possible with me.

Apart from your opinion(hope if you are pilot ,there is some mental test)no excuse for this massacre ,for burning the house of the french family as well as that is happening in Israel for 40 years.
"Weighting on double way" should be cancel in our mind.
Why I am not surprised that no one opened a forum about the last week israeli operations in the "occupied territories"?

[Engineer]

If anything, we should sterolize those doing so, preventing them from infesting the world with more idiots.

Could start with a few world leaders first. If you start at the top it is easy for the water to flow down rather than up

[Panama Jack]

ijp,

Sorry, but you're a Big Zero in my books for saying something so arrogant and naive. :yuk:

Not much more that I can say about your position. Have a great day cowboy.

[Comical Ali]

ijp,
People like you are for no good. Please, think again before you write more stupid things.
Ali

[ijp]

Not one person need die using my method! None! I must have struck a nerve! Maybe with the threat that I suggested, people will be encouraged to turn over these savage militants, and make others think twice before commiting these outragous acts. If they don't want the "holy" sights destroyed, simple, do not commit acts of terrior. How much easier can it be.
All these middle eastern arguements, someone always brings up Isreal. People must face the fact that 56 years ago the land was taken and it is gone forever. Tell me, please, of any land on this planet that wasn't taken from someone else. The policy that I suggested is not new it was used with success by the Romans, and many others since. Incidently, do you know what county contributes more money than anyone else to palestine?
It is costing a fortune, in money and human life to protect the innocent from these people. There is a profile and we should use it. When has an American housewife or English businessman or a German stockbroker ever hijacked an airplane. Your arguement that the innocent should not pay is understood, so why are we in the west having to pay for the barbarian conduct of the middle east. Another solution might be to keep anyone of middle eastern origin off of airplanes, and out of the skys, end of problem! And certainly out of civilized nations. As for the oil, use the multi national force to secure the oilfields for the benefit of industrial nations.
I bet this message gets some attention.

[MD11Flyer]

Well what do u expect from a Yankee... "I'm AMERICAN I'm AMERICAN F*** the arabs!" Even though most Americans don't even know who their president is.

[ferris]

So what country produced Timothy McVeigh?


When has an American housewife or English businessman or a German stockbroker ever hijacked an airplane I seem to remember a couple of guys riding around with a sniper rifle shooting people from the boot of their car recently. Where was that? Washington?

There were plenty of Germans involved in an organisation called the 'stasi'. Fairly terrorfying.

the barbarian conduct of the middle east I assume you are talking about Israel, here?

I suspect, however, that you really aren't a moron, just a troll.

[doubleu-anker]

ijp

Agree with you 100%

About the Israelis. Let us just get one thing straight right hear an now. They are there for good and they are there to stay. They have over 200 nukes to back it up and if necessary they will be used.

[MD11Flyer]

Please don't bring up Israel.. it makes me sick just hearing it. I am sorry but all they do in Canada is bicker and whine how they got killed during the second world war. What about the millions who died and were European? They want everyone to feel sorry for them, they run America and thats why the terrorists hate America. I couldn't spell it out any clearer, thats the main reason. I lost great grandparents and even my last name because noone knew who my grandma was (she was too young to speak). I think people suffered to. I hope Palestine kickes their ass!

The best, most honest and kind people I know are arab. And its a shame a few terrorists make the americans think so low of them. I'd rather trust my life with an arab than an American any day.

[Diesel8]

It is easy enough, being a monday morning quarter back, or for my british friends, coach.

I see a whole lot of whinning and hand wringing, but very little constructive criticism vis a vis the war on terror.

Now, I am far from an expert and really have do not have much of an idea of what needs to be done. It does however appear, that fundamentalist Islamic teachings are the cause. It appears to me, that they wish to go back to the stone age, or close there to, with women being second class citizens and life must be lived under the most strict interpretation of the Koran. Sort of like when the Taliban ruled Afghanistan or Khoemeni in Iran.

Further, there is no appeasing these terrorist, if you give an inch, they will only seek more. They can only see their side of the coin and will not engage in diplomacy.

Yes, Israel has not exactly done well with diplomacy and for that I am saddened. On the other hand, they live under constant threat from terror. None of the ME countries recognizes Israel as a state, not to mention, the ME countries are happy to band together to destroy Israel, six day war comes to mind.

So what do we do? As I said, I am no expert, but obviously, we cannot live in a world, where the next second may be your last, due to some suicide bomber who considers all non muslims infidels and there for are inclined to kill us in the name of Allah.

The world would be a better place, if we could learn to respect each other, but sometimes, the idea of that seems to be beyond our reach.

[MD11Flyer]

My friend came to visit me from Kuwait, he brought with him a magazine. Inside were pictures of Israelis storming a lebanese camp killing people. There was a mosque and they went inside and killed people and hung them from the lines on the phone poles.

Suicide Bombers? They are young people 16-24, who parents have been murdered by Israelis, homes destroyed, lives shattered. Why does the news only show Palestineans doing s*** cause the T.V. networks are all owned by Jews, CNN, ABC.. you name it. They want to cover their a** so they can look like the victims, but I know the truth.

If someone came into your land, told you what to do, killed your parents, destroyed everything you have ever owned, you are telling me you wouldn't be pissed?!?

[Diesel8]

Oh, you mean like the British did with their colonies?

You are correct, in that the news services leaves a lot to be desired. But from there, to a giant zionist propaganda machine is probably too far.

I wish there could be some kind of resolution to the palestinian issue, but as long as their rhetoric is: "Israel must be wiped of this earth", nothing will ever be accomplished. For a while, it did seem like something good was happening, but the powers that be, in particular Arafat, was adamantly opposed to any form of reconcilation.

Before this turn into a slagging of the US, I need not point out the problems with terror in N. Ireland, the separatist in Spain etc.

Instead of whinning, why not present a solution?

[Deske]

Dear ijb,

Your sentence:

"so why are we in the west having to pay for the barbarian conduct of the middle east."


Mine :why are we in the whole world having to pay for the brutal existence of Israel?why are in the whole world having to pay for the U.S. support to Israel?

MD11,

In my country we can hear everyday that my nation has to pay them MONEY for more than 3 generations later.

The media has cancelled a document movie about the AVH (local version of the Soviet KGB) because there were to many "israeli" names (70% about) among the members.

[Diesel8]

Deske,

So your assertion is, that if Israel was no more, acts of terror would not occur?

You are saying, that the Al Quaida attacks on 9-11 was in support of those who wish Israel to disappear?

[MD11Flyer]

On 9/11, many jewish executives did not go to work because they were warned something might happen.... I don't think the israelis deserve retribution, only a swift kick in the a**!

[Diesel8]

You have sources for this, or just the normal conspiracy theories!

[Deske]

Something misunderstanding:

I am talking about that the terror is primarly supported by the cionist politics in the M.E. and in the US.

And the superior behavior of the Israelis.How many United Nations" Resolutions are not in order in Israel?

I am sure as well that the brutal attacks 9/11 were not a surprise to some people holding other passport than arabic.

Do You remember when the "Reichstag" (German Parliment Building) was in flames in the 1930's? I think You all know the story.The nazis burnt it then destroyed the remaining political parties in Germany.

[Diesel8]

Who would spread the rumours, that jews were notably absent 9-11. Perhaps those who wish to deflect blame?

"None of us needs any
reminders after the events of September 11 about what an ugly place the world can be, but we continue to receive those reminders nonetheless. In this case, there are plenty of anti-Semitic, anti-Zionist, and anti-Israeli groups eager to use the horrors of September 11 as fodder for propaganda to serve their own political ends.

The pieces quote above scarely merit the dignity of a rebuttal. One need only have read newspaper accounts of the thousands of deaths, viewed TV news interviews with grieving families, and scanned the lists of the dead and missing to know that the terrorist attack on New York City claimed the lives of Christians, Jews, and Muslims; agnostics, atheists, and the non-religious alike. No religion was spared, no denomination singled out. Ordinary people of all nationalities suffered. No miracles, human intervention, foreknowledge, coincidence, or vagaries of fate saved more than a few World Trade Center workers from meeting their deaths that day.

Nonetheless, those with something to gain by sowing the seeds of divisiveness would have us believe that Israel had advance warning of the World Trade Center attack, that they managed to notify 4,000 Jews who worked in the two towers, but that they left the U.S. completely unaware of the danger. ("Hello, David Rosenberg? This is the Mossad. Listen, don't go to work on Tuesday. Yeah, another terrorist attack on the U.S. . . . call in sick. And remember, not a word to any of your gentile relatives, friends, or co-workers.") And even though this scoop to top all scoops is now winging its way all over the Internet, the American press apparently still remains completely in the dark about the nefarious scheme. Is it any surprise that this story emanated from Pravda and Al-Manar Television, the pro-Palestinian "Channel of Arabs and Muslims"?

Why would Israel follow such a course of action, betray its staunchest ally, and doom thousands of innocent Americans to death? There are no rational answers to that question, only ugly propagandistic ones. "Israel wants to draw America into a final showdown with its Arab enemies, so they didn't warn us" — the same conspiracy theory that posited our leaders knew about the impending Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor allowed it to happen in order to galvanize public support for a war. Old theory, new clothes. Even darker is the implication that Israel, not content to wait for an attack which would embroil America in a Middle Eastern war, forced the issue by pulling off a monstrous act of terrorism again the USA themselves.

"It is clear to all that the Jews/Israel have most to gain and should be considered as a possible source behind this act," we're told. We hope what's clear to all is that those who author and disseminate this kind of garbage are really the ones with the most to gain.

Last updated: 21 September 2001




The URL for this page is http://www.snopes.com/rumors/israel.htm"

[Deske]

Dear Diesel8,


Read the Tora a little bit.I have done it.

[Diesel8]

Deske,

It really is not a question of reading the Tora or the Koran, both with preaches peace and coexistance.

The question is more, that some people wishes to twist these religions into things that are detrimental to us all.

Let me know, how we can adequately contain those, who wishes to use religion as a cause for evil doing, because all this finger pointing gets us absolutely no where!

[4HolerPoler]

Hoo boy, you guys are beating this one to death!

Somehow this one is still teetering on the rails - please keep it that way. There is no aviation related content in this thread but as it does affect those of us who live in the region we'll keep it going in the interests of free speech - just keep it nice, no radical statements or xenophobic statements will be tolerated.

It's interesting to note that virtually none of the folk involved in this discussion live anywhere near the region. But please, carry on if you will.

4HP

[Diesel8]

4holerpoler,

Of course it teethers on the rails, most of these "ugly" discussions tend to do that. Does that mean it will get out on control, I certainly hope not.

As for me, I live in the US, although was born in Europe. Needless to say, the events of recent, has been rather trying and very sad.

If you live in the ME, I would be very interested in hearing your views as to what can be done and how we may go forward. I am sure you would have some ideas.

Kind regards,
D8

[Deske]

4Hole,

Aviation content?

Well,I have got the offer from Qatar Airways and my wife and me are arguing about to move or not for more than a week.

And I am also not sure about it now,cause I am afraid if these actions would cross the border let's say in the next year.



:ugh:

If You live in the region,please advise your opinion about my fear.

[MD11Flyer]

I think this is a perfect thread. This has everything to do with aviation, because its issues like these that people have to look at when thinking about pursuing a career in the middle east. This sort of thing may stop people from wanting to move down there, and I doubt any airline would let you argue this sort of thing in the cockpit :p

[411A]

Deske--
Personally lived and worked in the ME for over twenty years, and was always treated with respect...and did likewise.
If you have a job offer...take it, providing the cash and conditions are to your liking.
Who knows, you may actually enjoy it.
Yes, the cash isn't what it used to be, but hey, the same can be said for many other areas.
Go with the flow...for the least 'problems'.
OTOH, don't expect a rose garden either:ooh:
Life is a challange, and those who never accept the challange generally live to regret it, later on.

[HE SLAM!]

You know what the basic difference is between westerners and arab's world? In the western world, when they have critics to make, they make a movie and get awards (Moore) and in the arab world when they have critics to make, they write a book and then there life is threaten. (Rushdie)

Since nobody wants to talk about Sudan, here's some facts : 2 million people have been killed and millions more have been removed from their land and put in a refugee camp by THE ARAB MUSLIM FROM THE NORTH IN SUDAN.

Worst conflict than in Palestine but it seems no one wants to talk about it. Double standard again.

:rolleyes:

[MD11Flyer]

Well thats Africa my friend, and it happens alot there, government reforms, rebels, Christians vs. Muslims. Just looks at Angola, Congo and Rwanda, 2 million slaughtered in the Rwanda genocide. And then 2500 people die on 9/11 and the world stops to mourn. We need to quit being so ignorant, the US is not the world and s*** like this happens every day and in some parts of the world its like a normal event.

[Panama Jack]

Aviation content?

So there I was, nervously sitting next to a fellow pilot in uniform who is waiting to head out to the airport to do his flight in an Al Khobar hotel not more than 3km from the Oasis compound and the day after the events . . . . . nervously sipping coffee- nervous because of rumours that there is more gunfire going on somewhere in the city, wondering if guys with AK-47's will be rushing into the lobby at any moment asking where we are from or what interpretation of God we subscribe to. Or whether we might get popped off on our way to the airport, or coming from. Or whether they will coming to our front door during our day off. Has this got anything to do with aviation? Welcome to our world. :sad:

[EuroATC]

MD11, your comment about jews being warned not to go to work on 9/11 are nothing but rumours This is has been investigated with no conclusions. All I know is a friend of mine who was a big shot at Goldman Sachs (a jew) happened to be at work that day.

Diesel, you are very well informed and I share alot of your views. I DO live in the ME, Bahrain and my wife and I are leaving in July for good. In my opinion this is no longer a safe place to live, this is not the only reason we are leaving but a big part of it. It is only a matter of time before attacks like these spread to other countries in the region.

So much talk about Isreal and Palestine. I don't think this problem will ever get solved but here is some food for thought.

The UN gives Isreal a territory, the arab states are not happy (rightfully so) and decide.. hey we will take them by force. This plan doesn't work and they end up losing more ground to the Jews. Then they turn to the UN and cry foul. Would they have cried foul to the UN if they would have beaten Isreal? Of course not.... a total double standard. Your plan backfired guys, they did to you exactly what you were trying to do to them!

Alot of talk about Saudi aswell, this has nothing to do with the US. Countries in the ME cannot survive without the expats. Sad but true. Saudi is not different. The militants target expats mostly to try and destabilize the country. If Saudi stops pumping oil out of the ground it's game over for them. In Saudi, 95% of the money goes to 5% of the population. The people are tired of this and it's only a matter of time before the royal family is taken down. The recent attacks by the militants is just the start of this whole process.

Coming out to work here was a great experience and I pocketed a bucket full of cash. But they say, when you come to the ME, you come with 2 buckets.. one for money one for Bullsh**. Once one is full, you leave.. well both are full right now and we're leaving.

[MD11Flyer]

My sources were NBC, and there was even an executive who lost all of his workers when that one day for the first time he decided to take his kid to school and showed up an hour after it happened. Not rumors, because alot of people here know about it cause they watch the news.... don't rely on the internet.

[EuroATC]

one isolated incident?? all of a sudden there is a conspiracy where people got messages on their answering machines, pagers etc?? come on....

why didn't my friend get the message? or why didn't many of his jewish co-workers get these phone calls...??????

[MD11Flyer]

Apparetly the Jewish ORganization "Mossad" had warned several Israelis (not all) about going to work that day. And when the towers were falling many saw a Israeli film crew nearby cheering, this is why many thought Israelis were the ones who did this to tarnish the image of the arab world. Of course no proof of this but there was a documentary and it showed very good proof that the Israelis knew that the attacks were going to happen and I can't remember if they warned the US government or just warned their own people... it was in early 2003 when I saw this documentary

[Muttley Crew]

saw a Israeli film crew nearby cheering Yeah they were holding their cameras AND a flag that said, "ISRAELI FILM CREW".

Get real.

Sympathies to the familes and friends of those killed in Al Khobar and other places over there.

[MD11Flyer]

No they were actually shooting a movie in New York, so when you see cameras, trucks, lights, I guess you could assume they are making a movie, afterall its New York

[HE SLAM!]

When the time comes, to justify all your hatred (you arabs) we can hear so much funny stories.

I've got a couple of stories for you....Elvis is alive...JFK has been shot by the mafia...Washington is controlled by an extra-terrestriel from Roswell.....and the best one for you, the world is controlled by a group of 11 powerful jews, hide underground in a secret place!!!!

Now put that in your "true story files" and use it when you need it!:}

[Diesel8]

I find the idea of Israel being behind the attacks on 9-11 quite ludicrious. One because why attack your staunchest supporter and two, if that was the truth and it was ever to come out, it would be buhbye Israel, absolutely, positively no doubt about it.

Cannot say I have ever seen the Israeli film crew you talk about, I did however see large crowds on Muslims celebrating and cheering. Perhaps the documentary you saw, was made by Al Jazeera? (sic)

The ME news have been trying to deflect blame for quite a while, but I think most people can see through the intent of this. As I write this, I must remind you, that terrorist attacks are now taking place in Saudi Arabia. Am I too believe, the Israelis are behind that too?

I think, it will get worse before it gets better, because it appears those who wish evil are getting desperate as the world closes in on them. Hopefully, a democratic goverment, who will fight terrorism, will be successful in Iraq and perhaps that will lead to democracy spreading in the ME or at least a bit more stability.

[Panama Jack]

I did however see large crowds on Muslims celebrating and cheering.

Where did you see this? Time and location?

OR are you saying you saw it on CNN? I understand that much of the footage of people cheering and celebrating was taken months before Sept 11th. :hmm:

[mogley]

Panama Jack,
You are 100% correct. As the footage that CNN aired was actually shot during the first Gulf War when Saddam launched some scuds towards Israel.

[Diesel8]

"Reuters rejects as utterly baseless an allegation being circulated by e-mail and the Internet claiming that it circulated 10-year-old videotape to illustrate Palestinians celebrating in the wake of the September 11 tragedies in the United States. Reuters welcomes a statement by the Universidad Estatal de Campinas-Brasil (UNICAMP), one of whose students was the author of the original e-mail, setting the record straight. The videotape in question was shot in East Jerusalem by a Reuters camera crew on September 11 in the immediate aftermath of the attacks on the United States. The footage was broadcast by CNN and other subscribers to the Reuters video news service."

"CNN did not air decade-old footage of Palestinians dancing in the streets. Eason Jordan, CNN's Chief News Executive, confirmed that the video used on CNN was in fact shot on Tuesday, 11 September 2001, in East Jerusalem by a Reuters TV crew, not during the Persian Gulf conflict of 1990-91 — a fact proved by its inclusion of comments from a Palestinian praising Osama Bin Laden (whose name was unlikely to have come up ten years earlier in connection with the invasion and liberation of Kuwait) as well as the appearance in the video of post-1991 automobiles."

I am saddened, that conspiracy theories abound, wrt the WTC and the attacks against the US 9/11.

If OBL is not behind 9/11, then why not have Al Jazeera run a video tape of him, denouncing these events. They certainly seem to be given access to info. Instead, we get this: "In 1998, several al-Qaeda leaders issued a declaration calling on Muslims to kill Americans—including civilians—as well as “those who are allied with them from among the helpers of Satan.”

Further, after 9-11, the arab talkings heads, were quick to point out, that while the attack were horrendous, that the US was perhaps partly responsible for repsonses against the US.

I find it incredolous, that respected news organizations, who reside in parts of the world, where free speech is a right, is disregarded and information from sources like Al Jazeera is held in higher esteem.

Wonder who they will claim did the attacks in Saudi, Spain, Khobar Towers, UN Building, Bali Disco, WTC bombing 1, US embassy in Nairobi ? I know, it is a vast zionist conspiracy!

Honestly, I understand, that the vast majority of people on this earth wishes to live in peace, whether they are Muslims, Christian, red or Blue, but there are those that do not wish this to be. Turning a blind eye to this fact, is not a prudent thing for us to do!

[Captain Sand Dune]

HE SLAM! - like it. :ok: Surprised that your post made it on.

PJ

I did however see large crowds on Muslims celebrating and cheering.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Where did you see this? Time and location?


I did. September 11 2001 in Riyadh.

[Tristar]

All I can say is that this thread shows, how deep rooted is the hatred and prejudice of most westerners towards Arabs and Muslims, on the other hand I have never had this in me, and I look at everbody as friends and colleagues.
It is also very obvious that a lot of Jews are among the people who live in these Arab/Muslim countries who also love this thread.
May god bless all of you with love and goodness?
:confused:

[MD11Flyer]

I missed someone saying they hated arabs, I don't. Where I live its 80% arabs, most of my friends are arabs and they are all good people. No problem here!

[Flip Flop Flyer]

I've recently accepted a position in Bahrain, having visited this fine Island numerous times over the past few years. From speaking to my Bahraini friends it is plainly obvious that the main problem here is not so much Israel, but rather the complete and total lack of understanding Arab mentality on behalf of the western world, especially the US.

Basically, these people are not interested in having our way of life imposed on them, just as "we" would not be interested in having their way of life imposed on us. The sad part is that your average American cannot fathom that the US way of life has very little in the way of appeal here, and I will venture the proposition this is also valid for a large part of the rest of the world.

Until such time that the US realises that people from different parts of the planet have no wish to live like Americans, but would rather perserve their own culture and way of life, there is litttle hope that the deep distrust and even outright hatred against the US will diminish, and thus terrorism will continue.

As you will probably know there is a very large US presence here in Bahrain, and I've meet quite a few people from the US Navy, Army and Air Force. To a man, they are utterly incapable of understanding that neither Europeans nor Arabs have any inclination to become "Americanized" - they fully belive that the US way of life is the end all and be all of civilization.

So when the US fails to win hearts and minds, they resort to bullying tactics thereby further alianting both supposed allies and adding fire to an already burning hatred. One is inclined to put the present US government in the same basket as so-called Muslem fundamentalists - their simplistic and narrow minded views of the world, although directly opposed, bears many similarities.

The fact of the matter is that somewhere around 99% of the poulation, both here and in the rest of the world, wants nothing more than to live a peaceful life, raise their families and succeed to the best of their abilities. The problem is the 1% who are fundamentalists, whether they are Muslem, Jewish or Christians. And yes, I will list the present US government among the fundamentalists.

Is there a solution to this problem? Well, of course there is. The House of Saud needs to be replaced by another form of government - the US support for that family of deep corruption and dictatorship is another cause of hatred. The Israeli / Palestinian conflict needs to be resolved - again the unilateral US support to Israel is another source of hatred. To put it in a nutshell, the US will need to stop messing around with the politics here and get to grasp with the fact that the US way of life is not wanted, nor needed, in this and many other parts of the world.

Finally, no matter how well we mean it this place is not yet ready for the sort of democracy we enjoy in the west. A strong leader is needed to handle the "big issues" like security, defence and foreign policy. Domestic politics can be handled by a democratically elected parliament, but there neeeds to be a top dog. Arabs have little in the way of respect for touchy-feely democracy and that is exactly why the mission in Iraq is bound to fail.

[Danny]

Well, this Jewish website owner must be part of the great Zionist conspiracy that md11flyer is ranting on about. It is a conspiracy, which is why I have decided to remove his rantings from this website.

Thanks to the ignorant spoutings of twisted minds like his, we have to suffer accusations that are so preposterous and infantile, but with serious under and overtones, and some people wonder why the problems exist. If anyone on here is not happy with the fact that this website owner is Jewish and has served in the Israeli military then you are fee to go elsewhere and spout your rants. you will not, however, be given free reign on this website to pass off Goebbels type lies and false propaganda.

Fair discussion is OK and I have no problem with both sides of the arguments being put forward but the type of utter rubbish that is designed to raise the ignorant fears and ultimately designed to produce hate will not be tolerated. Anyone supporting those views will also be subjected to the Zionist power. :rolleyes: Eejits such as md11flyer are welcome to go back to their own websites and leave this bastion of Zionist media control to the rest of us who are prepared to act like the professionals we purport to be and discuss contentious issues without resorting to outrageous lies put forward by those trying to take the heat away from their own guilt.

Feel free to start again but keep it reasoned.

:*