'A plane has crashed in Uzbekistan'

[hostie]

Link to Sky News story (http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1119102,00.html)

[747FOCAL]

TASHKENT, Uzbekistan (CNN) -- A passenger plane has crashed in Uzbekistan's capital of Tashkent, killing all aboard, airport officials told CNN.

The ITAR-Tass news agency reported 37 people were killed, citing Interior Ministry officials

The Interior Ministry said the plane crashed while coming in for a landing among heavy clouds, according to ITAR-Tass. President Islam Karimov went to the accident site, ITAR-Tass said.

The news agency identified the plane as an Antonov-24. Another agency, Interfax, reported it was a Yakovlev-40. The reports did not state which airline the plane belonged to.

Roads around Tashkent's airport were blocked and it was not immediately clear whether the crash had taken place at the airport itself or in its vicinity, local residents told The Associated Press.

The An-24 is a twin-engine turboprop plane with a capacity of about 50 passengers. The Yak-40 is a small jet with a capacity of 32 passengers and three crew.

[Boss Raptor]

Uzbekistan A/L Yak 40 Termez-Tashkent

[LatviaCalling]

I guess it is hard to report from some of these outlying areas.

Reports were that it crashed in light fog and then again in heavy fog. Reports were that it hit a light stanchion coming in, then again not. Reports were that all 37 souls -- 32 passengers and five crew were killed. Reports were that there were five survivors.

I guess we'll just have to wait until the reports weed themselves out. And yes, it was a YAK-40, apparently packed to the brim.

Sympathies to relatives and friends of those who perished.

[Timothy]

It seems only yesterday that I was standing around on the apron at Tashkent chatting with a YAK-40 crew swapping our Cadbury's Dairy Milk with their catering (un-gutted fish wrapped in newspaper and bruised apples :yuk: )

They were telling us of the conditions that they had to fly in during the Siberian winter, and, to us, every one of them was a hero. That was "real flying" alright. And the equipment was really primitive. They said that it didn't make a lot of odds, because the ground aids were so often out of commission in the places they went to, it didn't make a lot of difference what you had in the cockpit.

I suppose that was ten years ago, and aeroflot, maybe things have got better since :hmm:

Will

[B737NG]

Will,

in that part of the world it takes a while until the changes and
improvement arrives. I was there just recently and it lookes
like the same then years ago. Only a few A310 in Uzebek`s
livree shown the first imagination of modern aviation.
Sorry for the losses. That is not a good start for 2004....

NG

[RASTAMIKE]

Date: 13 JAN 2004
Time: ca 19:40
Type: Yakovlev 40
Operator: Uzbekistan Airways
Registration: ?
Msn / C/n:
Year built:
Engines: 3 Ivchenko AI-25
Crew: 4 fatalities / 4 on board
Passengers: 32 fatalities / 32 on board
Total: 36 fatalities / 36 on board
Airplane damage: Written off
Location: Tashkent (Uzbekistan)
Phase: ..Approach
Nature: Domestic Scheduled Passenger
Departure airport: Termez Airport (TMJ)
Destination airport: Tashkent-Vostochny Airport (TAS)
Flightnumber: 1154
Remarks:
The Yakolvev 40 passenger jet crashed while approaching Tashkent. Weather at the time of the accident was poor with a visibility of 200-350m and a runway 08L RVR (runway visual range) of 600-900m in fog.
UTTT 131400Z 23003MPS 180V250 0350 R08L/0900N FG VV001 01/01 Q1026 TEMPO 0200 FG VV001 08CLRD70=
UTTT 131500Z 22002MPS 0200 R08L/0600N FG VV001 01/01 Q1026 NOSIG 08CLRD70=

[RASTAMIKE]

and now AFP reports that the aircraft had not its landing gear lowered when it slammed into concrete blocks just short before the runway. The aircraft had 37'000 flight hours.

[Skunkie]

:* I started flying during URRS and when became CSI all aircraft had no more controls....all Aeroflot aircraft had ben sold to the new provinces, and at least one every 1 or 2 months is falling.......

[5 APU's captain]

Latest:
The domestic prosecutor is saying:
The aircraft had flown at 2 meters over the RW, then beyond the RW striked the concrete fence, crashed and burned...

[mini]

5 APU's description seems to fit the images on BBC News, a/c came down upright and wreckage seemed to be contained in a short area.

What an awful start to a new year this has been, thoughts to all affected.

BTW BBC also reported that the UN's top official in Uzbek. was on board.

[swish266]

As far as I can remember a few Yak-40 were sold to Canada while Bombardier was still making snow-mobiles.

I flew 4 Russian types before switching to Boeing's moneymaking machines. I can tell you one thing: we never wore harnesses, only lap belts - ride was always so smooth (unlike the 767 I fly now - strap in tight). We could do .91 on the Tu-5 and it was big fun!
So sorry I can't do it these days.
Wonder why a lot of people want Russian frames with Western fans?!

I did my CPL on Yak-40. Nice starter!

Blame it on the obezians that should not go anywhere near a flying machine... You can find them all over the world!

"obeziana" - Russian for all types of stupid animals that feed mainly on bananas.

Follow up on obeziana:
Date: 09 JAN 1993
Time: 04.08
Type: Tupolev 154B-2
Operator: Indian Airlines
Registration: 85533
Msn / C/n: 82A-533
Year built: 1982
Crew: 0 fatalities / 13 on board
Passengers: 0 fatalities / 152 on board
Total: 0 fatalities / 165 on board
Airplane damage: Written off
Location: Delhi-Indira Gandhi International Airport (DEL) (India)
Phase: Landing
Nature: Domestic Scheduled Passenger
Departure airport: Hyderabad-Begumpet Airport (HYD)
Destination airport: Delhi-Indira Gandhi International Airport (DEL)
Flightnumber: 840
Remarks:
Because of a pilot strike at Indian Airlines, a Tupolev 154 plane and crew were leased from Uzbekistan Airways. The Tupolev was operating flight IC-840 from Hyderabad to Delhi. Visibility was poor at Delhi when the airplane approached runway 28. The aircraft touched down slightly outside the right edge of the runway, collided with some fixed installations on the ground, got airborne again and finally touched down on kutcha ground on the right side of the runway. At this stage the right wing and the tail of the aircraft broke away and it came to rest in an inverted position.
PROBABLE CAUSE: "(a) The failure of the Pilot-in-Command, Capt , to divert to Ahmedabad when he was informed that the RVR on runway 28 was below the minima applicable to his flight. (b) The switching on of landing lights, on the instruction of Capt , at a height of only about ten metres, resulting in the loss of all visual references due to the blinding effect of light reflections from fog. (c) The failure of Capt to carry out a missed approach when visual reference to the runway was lost."a Tupolev 154 plane and crew were leased from Uzbekistan Airways

[HotDog]

Tashkent: An Uzbek airliner that crashed in thick fog at Tashkent airport tried to land before hitting a fence and exploding in flames, killing all 37 on board. The crash of the Soviet-era Uzbekistan Airways Yak-40 plane on a domestic flight from the border with Afghanistan killed the UN's top official in Uzbekistan. Reuters

[DaRus]

Preliminary report says pilot error. While approach in low vis condition and fog, they’ve made one go-around and second attempt was too close to airport, they’ve turn final between OM and IM and deployed reverses airborne at about 60 meters altitude. They’ve overblown almost all runway at about 10meters and slightly off when they’ve decided to go around realized that they’ve missed (it takes about 30 sec to spoolup if thrust revers was applied), but come into collision with some obstacles and antennas followed struck with fences and came to rest with fire.

[RASTAMIKE]

if it was below vis minimas, why did the crew not decide to divert? was there no fuel for the alternate? The Yak-40 is a short range and when utilised on longer routes, there is no much underload left with full tanks. Has anybody infos on the aircraft performance?

[swish266]

The Yak-40 has huge single low press tyres. Normally it is used on unpaved rws. They could have gone any place, the rubber heads!

[RASTAMIKE]

it was not their first time:

Date: 26 AUG 1999
Type: Yakovlev 40
Operator: Uzbekistan Airways
Registration: UK-87848
Msn / C/n: 9331730
Year built: 1973
Engines: 3 Ivchenko AI-25
Crew: 0 fatalities / 4 on board
Passengers: 2 fatalities / 29 on board
Total: 2 fatalities / 33 on board
Airplane damage: Written off
Location: Turtkul (Uzbekistan)
Phase: Landing
Nature: Domestic Scheduled Passenger
Departure airport: Tashkent-Yuzhny
Destination airport: Turtkul
Remarks:
On the second approach to runway 20 another go-around was initiated. After raising the gear the Yakovlev struck power lines at a height of 10m/30ft, 2000m/6500ft past the runway. The aircraft belly landed and slid for 130m/425ft before coming to rest against an embankment.

[DaRus]

if it was below vis minimas, why did the crew not decide to divert? was there no fuel for the alternate? The Yak-40 is a short range and when utilised on longer routes, there is no much underload left with full tanks. Has anybody infos on the aircraft performance?

There was actually 60 x 800 meters, and it is still above minimum for ILS approach they've did. But on first attempt they've found that ILS indication didn't match (there are rumors that ground facility and equipment is really in very bad condition). To clear the things, let me clarify, ILS approach used was flown by hand and they've used ILS deviation indicator similar to western HSI, and pilot could use further ground landing aids if available to control instrument approach, in mentioned case NDB/markers were used (couple NDB approach is regular things for exUSSR countries), and they've said that crew miss OM/IM NDB frequencies, thats why aircraft turn final so close to treshold of runway and so high, they've thouth aircraft headed to OM but insted they went to IM, and having trouble with ILS on first attempt they've discard ILS indication and considered it as wrong and having reverser applied while airborne they got really trouble to initiate go around at the time they've realized that everything was wrong.

[swish266]

Good feedback Vania!
Anyway think twice b4 boarding an Uzbekistan Airlines flight - most likely u end up splattered on/around the rwy...

[DaRus]

Anyway think twice b4 boarding an Uzbekistan Airlines flight - most likely u end up splattered on/around the rwy...

well, not sure it looks so horrible.

There are lot of professional pilots flying muli types at Uzbekistan and you would pretty sure of their skill.

Just like most of such accidents, there was a few VIP’s onboard and crew was really under heavy pressure bring everyone in time and you could not even say a word you’re looking for closest diverting airport. Of course, it is not a point, captain choice and responsibility, that’s no doubt, but those things happen often on local flights with some VIP’s onboard.

BTW, a few years ago I’ve heard a tale. It was happen while war crisis in Chechnya, was at the height of war all around, and they’ve made and applied temporary changes to upper airways to avoid dangerous war area. Of course no new charts/maps were issued, neither ground facilities and beacons, just “fly direct to point (fix) 40 miles north to Grozny (capital of Chechnya)” And it was happen that Uzbekistan A310 was bound that route and was instructed by ATC to fly to above fix, crew yelling roger, and… start looking for this point in FMC NAVDATA <VBG> well, this fix was missing in database for sure and crew was very confused, finally they’ve got luck chatting one navigator from Tupolev –154 headed the same way and on the same frequency, he gave them range and bearing from their present position (big Gee)…

[RASTAMIKE]

I agree with Darus, the UZ pilots are good and under the circumstances and environment they have to fly, they are better than a JAA-FCL rated EU pilot that is used to fly routine routes in Eurocontrol zones when put in same situation.
On the other hand, the Yak-40 must have been the worst built jet in the world...

[Aesir]

"Rastamike" I agree the Eastern world pilots are really good considering the equipment they have.

However you say the YAK 40 must be one of the worst built jets around? I´m just curious as I have no know how of the aircraft. What is the biggest problem with YAK-40, I would appreciate comments from fellow PPRUNERS regarding this.

It sure looks good, similar to Falcon 900 in my opinion.

Friend of mine that has loads of cash is considering buying a private jet and I am interested in the YAK 40 and learning more about it.

[RASTAMIKE]

Aesir,

It is heavy, underpowered, huge fuel consumption, bad field performance, short range.
One good thing as said before are the low pressure tyres, good to go into unpaved runways, but beware of high altitude airports, it doesn't perform.
I'm sure an Eastern European PPruner might be able to tell you more on the aircraft. A colleague of mine died in a Yak-40 sitting in the last row (it rolled rolled rolled, never took-off and ended up in a river bed. Cause of the crash: overloading).

[Timothy]

The advantage that the locals have when told to fly to an apparently non-existent waypoint is that they can at least question the controllers in Russian.

My experience in that part of the world is that the controllers' English merely extends to "Callsign Route direct Xray Yankee Zulu". Any entreaty you make (such as can you give a heading, a frequency, an alternative waypoint, the name of a nearby feature or anything else) ends up on uncomprehending ears, and you get "Callsign Route direct Xray Yankee Zulu" repeated as the answer to anything you say.

It seems that the only solution is to point directly at destination and hope that they don't notice, which they never seemed to.

Timothy

[swish266]

As mentioned b4 I flew the Yak-40 in the mid eighties. A lot of eastern Eu pilots got their kick-off on it.
It is a good a/c, but it is 1965 tech. 800-1000kg/h in cruise. Cat I avionics, very good radar. Absolutely reliable engines. L-39 uses the same Ivchenko engine but a bit uprated. MTOW about 16t. Needs about 1200 m at MTOW for t/o and 500 m for landing. A bit tricky on landings in x-wind for the narrow base and pronounced V on the wings. Reveser on the center engine can be deployed in the air...
Has intelligent a/t - flight engineer!
Good workhorse. Aeroflot used it for many years as inter-village shuttle in Siberia...

[Aesir]

Swish 266

Thanks for the reply, We are thinking using it only as private jet, lightly loaded, 10-15 pax max.

Its definetly worth to take a look a at, another friend of mine is a share owner in one in Sweden, so I´ll take a look at it.

Seems to me to be a lot of aircraft for around 500.000$ Sure you can get a Lear or Sabreliner for around the same or less, but we want to land at unprepared runways and it will not be flown more than about 100 hrs a year so the cost per hour is not so important.

I would like to mention that we have about 40.000 hrs experience between us so we know what we are talking about, but we do not have much experience with Russian jets. I have some experience with Mi-17 helicopters and like them.

[RASTAMIKE]

It was built to replace the AN-2 !

Half a million seems a lot for that aircraft ? you must be able to find for less as it was priced USD800'000 coming out of the factory. Have a look on that page:

http://www.dragonaviation.com/an284sale.html

You can lease one for $450.--/hour, easily available on the market. You get for what you pay.

What about the AN-74. This is a superb aircraft with STOL capability.

[Aesir]

Thanks RASTAMIKE.

Yes I actually found someone who will lease them for 450$ pr/hr, but now I heard that they are not allowed to overfly or land in North-America? Is that right.

Although we would not plan on trips there, it is a restriction on the use of the aircraft.

I also hear that Range is about 1100 Nm, but can´t find if it´s with full tanks or full payload, I need more range, don´t need that much payload!

The AN-74 hmm.. only its mother could love it :p

[Timothy]

Aesir

Would the YAK-40 not be banned from many Swedish airports on noise grounds alone?

Timothy

[RASTAMIKE]

and RNAV, TCAS etc etc.... and you will not be able to register that aircraft with that certification...

[Aesir]

It turns out that the YAK my friend has share in, in Sweden has been in Russia for overhaul for a year now, he had plans installing TCAS and so on, but this is starting to seem like to much trouble to me.

I´ll start a new thread, to get suggestions!

Thanks guy´s for all the information.

[chippy63]

I used to fly on the Yak quite regularly when I lived in Bulgaria. What struck me was the (apparent) solidity of the beast. Example: the passenger tray table was made of machined aluminium. I imagine any cabin equipment designer at Airbus or Boeing who came up with that idea would quickly be shown the door.

[wes_wall]

Well, it did not take long. Pilot error. This from "Airwise."

Uzbekistan said on Tuesday the crash of an Uzbek Yak-40 passenger jet which killed all 37 people on board earlier this month had been caused by mistakes made by the crew in conditions of limited visibility.

Details: http://news.airwise.com/stories/2004/01/1075196965.html

[peterperfect]

Anyone out there with Yak 40 experience, I have a question:

I looked inside a Yak 40 recently, can anyone explain the difference between say ILS and the Russian SPS 50 instrument approach aid. The Yak 40 has both I believe. Thanks.

[DaRus]

I looked inside a Yak 40 recently, can anyone explain the difference between say ILS and the Russian SPS 50 instrument approach aid. The Yak 40 has both I believe. Thanks.

I have not any experience with Yak 40 however would like to drop comment, there is not any particular SP-50 indicator, since SP-50 (SYSTEMA POSADKI/LANDING SYTEM) is just old precision landing system and it’s completely different from typical ILS, however NKP indicator at Yak 40, located just below AGD (similar to Mechanical HSI Western type) has ability to work from ILS receiver and SP-50 receiver, there is special mode selector ILS/SP-50 and you could chose which type of system to be used following with deviation indication on your NKP (HSI)