Ok, now for RAF Northolt.

[con-pilot]

Ok, we tried Farnborough and now the boss wants to know all about RAF Northolt. Just how restrictive is Northolt?

1. Hours of operations?

2. International arrivals from non-EU countries?

3. Catering availability?

4. Private auto access to the aircraft?

5. Slot availability and/or reservation requirements?

6. Anything else that would affect corporate operations good or bad?

I have looked at the website for Northolt and it was not very encouraging. Hopefully some one has some newer and more encouraging information.

The aircraft will be a Falcon 50EX and will be arriving from and departing to North America.

Thank you in advance.

Con-pilot.

[Check 6]

Con-pilot, I will try to answer some of your questions, as I am in California right now and do not have my reference matl.


1. Hours - a guess but 0700-1900Z. Closed weekends.

2. I believe HM Customs Service available.

3. Catering - not positive, but there is a deli there in the term.

4. No private auto access to aircraft. Also, all Crew must wear high visibility vests! You may purchase in line service office.

5. Landing slots are limited, so you must have a reservation.

Call +44-208-845-2300 (switchboard) and ask for Northolt Operations for specifics.

6. ILS and PAR approaches. Excellent ATC. Turn to final is very close in due to proximity to Heathrow. BE CONFIGURED EARLY.

7. The departure procedures are very tight. Spend some time studying and briefing them, as an altitude bust is very easy there.

8. No engine start without block-out crew present. This is a working RAF base.

9. Security is very tight there, because RAF base, and also the Queen's Flight is based there.

10. Fuel service is very prompt, helpful and professional, as are the ground crews, Ops Office personnel, and WX briefers.

11. Check in with Air Ops (upstairs above deli) upon your arrival. Pay fees there, and leave your contact info in a log there. You can also put in your WX request for your departure.

12. Lastly, the field is popular with people who do not want to be in the public eye, i.e. celebs, and other high vis. figures. This can be an advantage if you have security or privacy concerns. This is why we use it.

I wish I could pass on more, but if you call they can fill in the blanks for you.

Check 6

:ok:

[flaps8]

It cost us £750.00 to land and park a Kingair overnight , with handling.
The place is a pain, especially when tasking cancel your landing permission at the last min, or the fuel stops pumping because met has detected lightning within 100 miles, or you can`t start because the start crew is on another plane, or the LHR director is too busy to either release you, or to work your approach, etc,etc.
I am not criticising the guys and gals there, after all they have a difficult job these days, in what is a very sensetive place, all i am saying is for a GA operation there are far easier places to operate from.
My man finds it as easy to get to the west end from Farn or Luton!

[Bright-Ling]

Flaps8

I agree with all you have said re operating at Northolt... but in terms of ATC in the TMA...

1. You are worked by LHR Director Inbound. 99% of the time you breeze through (or below!) the 4 x stacks with no delay. Then you are given to Northolt Director.

2. The runway config has to align with LHR, so you may find yourself landing on ILS 25 with a tailwind of up to 5 kts, as 27L/R is always the preference at LHR, and up to 5kts tailwind can be expected before Easterly ops.

3. If on runway 07 (and 09L landing at LHR) the talkdown (PAR) dogleg on short final gets 3.1nm from the 09L approach - so as said an earlyconfig is essential! (as is of course listening intently to the controller!!!!!!)

4. Departure wise, Northolt tower get the release from the TMA, and you may get delayed if LTN/STN/LCY have anything released ahead of you via BPK/CPT/CLN etc

Con-pilot....

what was wrong with FAB?? Pricey fuel perhaps!?!!?!?!?

B-L

[Check 6]

Another option, go into Stansted and take the train to Liverpool Station, or hire a car.

;)

[con-pilot]

First off I would like to thank everybody for their replies. The boss hates not being able to come and go, as he likes, so the hours of operations will probably dictate that we will not be using Northolt.

No real problems with FAB, just a real long drive into central London as compared to Luton, but we did land during the evening rush hour so I guess it was to be expected. We left for the US on a Sunday morning and the drive only took 45 minutes compared to the nearly 2 hours when we arrived Wednesday evening.

I guess the slot issue at FAB is most troubling thing. We asked for a 10:00 slot and were not told until we arrived at FAB, Sunday, the earliest time was 11:15. I suppose I really do not understand the slot system for FAB. We arrived at the airport at 08:00 and until we took off there was only one airplane that landed and no departures. So why no slot time until 11:15? However the boss showed up at 09:15 (damn near had a heart attack I did, him early!) and airfield operations told us that we could leave when we were ready. Guess what? We took off at 10:00, go figure.

Anyway there are a lot of very nice people working at FAB and they did everything in their power to assist us. I did notice a lot of light aircraft traffic around FAB, the TCAS was going crazy when we landed (clear wx).

We have checked into Stansted, but way too long of a drive for the boss. His houses are in Chelsea. Thanks anyway Check 6.

[flaps8]

Bright-Ling
Thanks for that, i was not critcising ATC either but just venting frustration of the system at Northolt but as somrone said it is a working RAF base!.
If you are either a Northolt or LATC person then as always i take my hat off to you and wish all you guys a happy and safe New Year.

[Bright-Ling]

Northolt person?? Pah! http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/ZZZsleep.gif

http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/ssst.gif

B-L

P.S. Come and visit TC and see how you get in and out of Northolt if you are a regular

(and the best to you too old chap!)

[StressFree]

Gentlemen,
The worst problem with NHT is the lack of slots, especially if your trip has come up at short notice. Also its very expensive, I used to take a G IV in there, £1100 just for landing and short term parking. As mentioned in previous posts it can be irritating to have to wait for a start-up team to arrive, especially when you're on a tight slot. I was there once and just about to depart when I was ordered to totally shut down (including APU) and delay the flight due to an arriving foreign dignitary. Apparently its standard practice to silence all noise so that when the VIP arrives he won't be disturbed..............

I'd better not complain too much though as my boss reads this forum and used to be the boss of NHT. Hard hat deployed.

:cool:

[Dumbledor]

Catering for Northolt

I would recommend
Bonsoiree

Tel - 01442 874076
Fax - 01442 874077

or

Emily's

Tel - 0845 0510 155
Fax - 0845 0510 156

There are no catering companies on the airfield. The little shop in the terminal is not a deli although you can get a coffee there and a sandwich while you are waiting for your pax perhaps. They do not provide top class catering for aircraft.
It is possible to get hot water and ice from the RAF kitchen though.

D

[Paterbrat]

Yes Con know the feeling, arrived a little while ago in Farborough and mentioned that we wished to depart on Sun was informed I probably would not get out as I would be something like 11th on the waiting list. Aparently towards the end of the year the weekend slot numbers were getting a bit thin. We rescheduled for Mon morning. Slots do seem to depend on outbound traffic not just from your airfield but the surrounding majors and the direction you are going in at the time you wish to depart, have found that it is a variable and fluctuates, certainly out of Milan Zurich Cannes and a few others.

[Miles Magister]

Worst problem with Northolt is that your slot is not confirmed until 2 days before, or even later sometimes. You may then have to find somewhere else at short notice.

One other alternative is Cambridge, I know it is just a touch further out than Stansted but 24hr availability, no slots, no delays, catering available and helo transfers to Battersea (right next to Chelsea) are available.

Edited to add:-

I have used Heathrow instead of Northolt, suprisingly easy to get in. The Exec handlers will get you a slot. Getting a takeoff slot is much harder though. However don't use rev thrust too early or you could make a 744 go around when you don't clear the runway fast enough, Oops sorry KLM!

[SonicTPA]

From what has been said above, there seems to be some confusion about slots at Farnborugh. There are a couple of different types of slots.

The local council have limited the annual weekend movements to 2500. In order to make that last the year, TAG have introduced "Airprot slots". If you want to come in or go out at the weekend, you'll need one - but it's not time restricted. It applies for the whole day. It's basically permission to use the airport on that day.

Then there is the CFMU air traffic slot, that is applied by Brussels, if a particular area or route that you are flying in is getting busy. It's normally pretty close to your flight plan departure time unless there are real problems on your route, or bad weather at the destination. You are allowed to depart within a 15 minute window, -5 to +10, on your slot time. And should you be ready before the slot, then ask ATC for a ready message. Ops can only put in a 'ready for improvement' message, which doesn't have as much weight. (You prob already know all that!)

As for weekdays, there are no airport slots. And as was said earlier on - avoid the rush hour traffic and the M3 isn't too bad into London.

Hope that clarifies things...

Sonic

[ANOrak]

Con-pilot read your private messages.
Regards ANOrak

[TD&H]

Con Pilot

Have you considered Biggin Hill? Operating hours similar to Farnborough, but no slot problems. A good driver will get your man to Chelsea as easily from Biggin as from any other London airport. The natives are friendly too. Far more practical than Northolt.

[Bright-Ling]

Only potential problems for you at Biggin is the high field elevation and the weather.

Couple that with only an ILS on 21 means there are times when you won't get in - especially when there is a Northerly wind and it's 600 ft elevation means that it is now OVC at 300agl.

That said, excellent ATCO's would get you in there when they can!http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/roflmao.gif

B-L

[SATCO Biggin]

...but then again sometimes our elevation places us above the fog that wipes out Farnborough, Northolt etc.

B-L...why the rolling about laughing smily face at the end of your posting??

Regards

SATCO Biggin