I spy with my little eye......

[747FOCAL]

Who was the pilot who spotted secret Bush flight?

CRAWFORD, Texas (Reuters) --One of the most suspenseful moments during President George W. Bush's secret flight to Baghdad, according to the White House, came when a British Airways pilot spotted Air Force One soaring over the Atlantic.

The mid-air encounter, which aides say nearly prompted the president to call off the trip, became an instant news sensation, memorialized by tourist pins which went on sale at a store in Crawford within hours of Bush's return to his Texas ranch.

But days after the sighting, the identity of the pilot remains a mystery, even to British Airways.

An airline spokeswoman said this weekend that no crew member had come forward to report the unusual encounter, as is standard practice.

Bush aides recounted with excitement the moment during the flight to Baghdad when the BA pilot thought he spotted the president's blue and white Boeing 747 from his cockpit.

"Did I just see Air Force One?" the pilot radioed.

There was a pause. Then came the response from Air Force One: "Gulfstream 5" -- a much smaller aircraft.

As one of Bush's aides recounted, the BA pilot seemed to sense that he was in on a secret, and replied: "Oh."

With three hours to go, Bush had the Secret Service check if his mission was still secret.

"They assured me that there was still a tight hold on the information, that conditions on the ground were as positive as positive could be," he said afterward.

Bush's Thanksgiving trip to Baghdad captivated people in Crawford and tourists, who came to its tiny downtown to buy up mementos of the trip.

Large pins featuring the president's plane and the BA pilot's words -- "Did I just see Air Force One?" -- were sold out by mid-day Saturday.

In response to press inquiries, British Airways checked with its crews. But so far, no one has come forward.

"It is normal practice for our crews to report anything out of the ordinary," the airline spokeswoman said. "Despite the amount of media coverage, we can't confirm this."


:ooh:

[AdamCG]

There was a pause. Then came the response from Air Force One: "Gulfstream 5" -- a much smaller aircraft.

Translation: "These are not the 'droids you're looking for...."

[B Sousa]

Urban Legend.......................(15 Characters Required)

[Buster Hyman]

I would've thought that AF1 should have replied honestly.

"Yes, this is Air Force One & we're on a secret mission to take Pres. Bush to Baghdad!"

No more questions, surely!

[Airbubba]

Oh no, here comes the forbidden Air Force One thread again...

[frangatang]

Was !!!!!!!! one not on a correct track then?

[av8boy]

Translation: "These are not the 'droids you're looking for...."
Perfect. I wish I'd thought of that.


Dave :D

[Tony_EM]

Translation: "These are not the 'droids you're looking for...."


And the obvious reply from our eagle-eyed BA pilot; 'You want to go home and rethink your life'

[Airbubba]

No pilot comes forward on spotting Bush's plane

From Dana Bash
CNN Political Unit

Tuesday, December 2, 2003 Posted: 10:54 AM EST (1554 GMT)


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- One of the most suspenseful moments told of President Bush's covert Thanksgiving trip -- that a British Airways pilot spotted Air Force One as it secretly made its way to Baghdad -- has not been confirmed by any BA captains in the air that day.

A British Airways spokeswoman says none of its pilots has yet reported seeing or contacting anyone by radio about Air Force One.

According to a pool report from aboard Air Force One, reporters were told a British Airways pilot spotted the president's plane and radioed, "Did I just see Air Force One?"

Then, according to the report, after some silence, the official said the president's pilot, Col. Mark Tillman, responded "Gulfstream 5," a much smaller aircraft than Air Force One.

After a long silence, the British Airways pilot, seeming to get that he was in on a secret, said, "Oh."

British Airways says none of its hundreds of pilots flying that day has said he made contact with Air Force One or anyone else during the president's covert Thanksgiving trip to Baghdad.

"Only two British Airways flights were in the Mideast at the time," Honor Verrier, a spokeswoman for the airline, said Monday. "We spoke with the two captains. Neither made comments to Air Force One, nor did they hear any other aircraft do so over the radio."

When asked if the exchange could have happened somewhere else en route to Baghdad, Verrier said that while other pilots were not asked if they were the pilot the White House talked about, none has come forward.

A White House official now says the story the president's pilot told was of an exchange between the British Airways plane and the control tower, about Air Force One, and there was no direct contact with Mr. Bush's plane directly.

Claire Buchan, White House spokeman, says she did not know where the tower was contacted during the 11-hour trip.

The story was told as an example of the suspense and secrecy of the trip, which the president said was essential to keep under wraps. He said he was prepared to abort the journey if anyone found out.


http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/12/02/sprj.nirq.bush.pilot/index.html

[lomapaseo]

Could this be a hoax?

With all the BA pilots on PPrune it would seem that it wouldn't be too difficult to at least figure out track times of AF 1 vs BA flights and at least narrow it down to about 3 BA crews. Knowing how talkative pilots are certainly somebody would at least could confirm something even if names and flight numbers aren't used

[Tony_EM]

Ah yes! That familiar smell of bovine doo-doo.

I'm sure there's more to come, like how 'pilot potus' had to bravely wrestle the plane down himself, dodging missiles and suicide camels in the process. :rolleyes:

Am I the only one who thinks the Bush camp got their PR training from a certain Peckham wideboy? :E

[RogerTangoFoxtrotIndigo]

Hey guess what, it was just another "war story" from the people that brought you "Mission Accomplished"

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - British Airways said on Monday that none of its pilots made contact with President Bush (news - web sites)'s plane during its secret flight to Baghdad, contradicting White House reports of a mid-air exchange that nearly prompted Bush to call off his trip

Honor Verrier, a spokeswoman for British Airways in North America, said two BA aircraft were in the area at the time and neither radioed the president's plane to ask if it was Air Force One.


"We have spoken to the British Airways captains who were in the area at the time and neither made comments to Air Force One nor did they hear any other aircraft make the statement over the radio," Verrier said in response to a question from Reuters.


The White House had no immediate comment on the discrepancy.


Bush aides recounted with excitement last week the moment during the flight to Baghdad when they said a BA pilot thought he spotted the president's blue and white Boeing 747 from his cockpit.


"Did I just see Air Force One?" the pilot radioed, according to the White House.


There was a pause. Then came the response from Air Force One: "Gulfstream 5" -- a much smaller aircraft..........

[Airbubba]

Yet another version of this tale, they called the "tower" in London:

Bush's Baghdad - Bound Plane Was Spotted

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Published: December 2, 2003

Filed at 5:39 p.m. ET

WASHINGTON (AP) -- In a footnote to President Bush's surprise trip to Baghdad, the White House identified the location and time when Air Force One was spotted en route to Iraq last week by a British Airways pilot.

The sighting occurred Thursday morning, just after daybreak, off the western coast of England, said White House communications director Dan Bartlett. If it had led to public disclosure of Bush's trip, the mission would have been scrapped, Bartlett said.

He said the pilot of the British Airways plane radioed the tower in London and reported the apparent sighting of Air Force One. The tower, apparently relying on phony flight-plan information filed to protect Air Force One's identity, radioed back that it was a Gulfstream Five, a much smaller plane.

Bartlett said he had left the wrong impression Thursday that the conversation had taken place between the British Airways pilot and the pilot of Air Force One, Col. Mark Tillman.

British Airways spokesman Jeff Angel said the airline has hundreds of planes in the air in the United Kingdom and around London and none of their pilots had come forward indicating they made the comments or overheard them. ``We are not going to be asking every single one of our pilots'' about the exchange, he said.

Bartlett said Bush and his senior aides were not aware of the spotting until Air Force One was on its way home from Baghdad.

[Buster Hyman]

Maybe it wasn't BA. Perhaps it was a RAF Tornado pilot with an itchy trigger finger?

[M.Mouse]

Yawn,zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..........................

[Funky Me]

Well, I think it just shows how utterly stupid they are trying to fly about on a "secret", "mission" in a huge aircraft with airforce one emblazen on the side of it.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear - how thick can you get. (If it is true that is !)

Who gives a F:mad:g f:mad: k about some turkey on a "secret" "mission" to hand out more turkey anyway.

[Wino]

Ummmm.,

Funky me, It doesn't say Airforce one on the side of it. It says UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. And there are dozens of aircraft of all sizes that say that, including several 747s...

Airforce One is a PASSENGER, not an airplane, and if I read pprune later, I would be pretty embarrassed at having revealed my ignorance.

I suspect that the pratt who came on frequency is too embarrassed to admit it...

Cheers
Wino

[Airbubba]

>>Airforce One is a PASSENGER, not an airplane, and if I read pprune later, I would be pretty embarrassed at having revealed my ignorance.<<

Well, don't worry about your ignorance <g> but actually Air Force One is the callsign of a U.S. Air Force plane carrying the President. I think this is what you were saying. And the current livery with "United States of America" on the side that you mentioned was originally approved during the Kennedy administration.

If you catch AF1 on the ground doing clear voice preflight HF radio checks with Crown (the White House Communications Agency), the radio operator will use SAM 28000 (or whatever) until the President boards. At that time, the radio operator will make the traditional announcement "SAM 28000 is now Air Force One".

________________________________________

Some online references:

"...When the President of the United States is aboard either aircraft, or any Air Force aircraft for that matter, the radio call sign is "Air Force One". "

http://www.theaviationzone.com/factsheets/c25.asp

"...Among the most important military callsigns, there is of course "Air Force One", which identifies any aircraft carrying the President of the United States. In the case of a [Marine]helicopter, it becomes "Marine One". Other presidential callsigns include "Air Force Two" for the Vice President, and "Executive Foxtrot One" for the First Lady. "

http://www.airodyssey.net/reference/radiocomm.html

"...Air Force One is the callsign of any United States Air Force aircraft carrying the President of the United States of America. "

http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_One


And, the S-3B that President Bush rode aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln had a callsign of "Navy One":

http://www.thesunlink.com/redesign/2003-05-01/local/136651.shtml

[LatviaCalling]

Airbubba,

Great job in gathering all those URLs together to finally make some sense into this whole thing. I, for instance, did not know about the First Lady plane, or that the carrier landing was, indeed, "Navy One." I believe that was the first time in history.

Even on this sneaky little post, I see that some others can't keep their knives sheathed.

Cheers

[747FOCAL]

Hehe I always "sheath" my knife before I attack.......:E

[Col. Walter E. Kurtz]

Maybe it was an Aussie/Kiwi/Springbok pilot!

Americans couldn't tell the difference in the accents anyway:E

[Hippy]

Any chance of withdrawing the american governments operators certificate, for knowingly entering incorrect aircraft type on the flightplan?:E

[Paterbrat]

In this gender confused tree hugging politicaly correct bend over backwards till we snap our spines day and age Hippy it would be quite likely that some prat would suggest that.

[jodok]

Great. A lot of info I never heard before. But you guys forgot 'general aviation one' while aboard Piper's, Cessna's, hanggliders and hot air balloons, 'experimental one' while underway with the Rutans and of course 'stupid one' when outside of any means of transport.


---------------------------------------------------
you need not clap your hands, we have a drummer

[RiverCity]

Hey, guys -- Journo One was in my newsroom once. No joke; Slick Willy and his entourage (Secret Service, FBI, White House advance team and assorted sycophants).

[Agaricus bisporus]

All sounds a bit odd to me.

BA pilots, as are most Professional pilots, are very reluctant to make non standard RT, particularly self instigated calls such as this. I'm surprised to hear anyone would have done this.

Secondly, why on earth would someone have felt it necessary to ask if AF1 had just gone by. So what? I seriously doubt if anyone would be so consumed with curiosity that they would bother to make such an RT call. No one automatically assumed that the red and white 146s had to have HMQ on board, did they? Why assume the US Govt's VIP flight has to contain G Dubya? It isn't very logical, is it?

Thirdly, most of us have some idea about security, commercial confidentiality and so on. It just is not like a Professional pilot to do such a thing. When we saw big ugly swept wing things pulling far too many contrails over Europe no one yelled, "hey, Go the Buffs!" did they? Leastaways, I never heard them if they did.

Is there any proof, and I mean solid proof that this actually happened and is not just another silly urban myth?

[RiverCity]

I can see you folks noticing "AF1" (the plane, contents unknown) and, perhaps --maybe perhaps-- making a comment. Maybe. But you see far too many a/c for that to be a novelty. If I were a pilot, I'd probably make a cabin announcement: "For all of you folks who just got to sleep..."

I could stretch it a bit and maybe understand a pilot realizing that something was up. Ok, stretch it an awful lot. But just for argument's sake let's figure he saw the plane and said, "By golly, there goes the President of the US of A and he's heading to a secret mission."

But we're not talking about Deep Throat here. If any pilot did realize that he saw AF1 and talked to it while on its was to some sort of Big Important Top Secret Mission (in the most recognizable plane anywhere) -- after it had already taken place and was now over, he'd probably mention it within the trade and word would have gotten out.

More White House baloney. Like the fake turkey he picked up in the photo.

[Diesel8]

What I do not get, is who gives a darn if this R/T happened or not. Must be a slow news day.

I frankly could not care less, but if it happened it is funny, "super secret" yet seen by quite a few. But again, who cares?

[MasterBates]

Why the hell didn´t "Stupid One" post a NOTAM stating that on a forthcoming secret mission to Iraq no one would be allowed to mention the sighting of "AirForce One". :}
Perhaps the poor BA chaps didn´t know this was a secret mission.


Anyway, this trip was just a ignorant showoff and hopefully in about one year from now, the civilized world will have forgotten about GWB. :E

Now The CIA will probably hunt me down in the shade of article 215 of the Patriot (ignorant) act!:yuk:

[Wino]

Shocking displays of hatred and ignorance, mixed in with virtually NO aviation information. However, that has become the norm I suppose...

:sad: So I guess the latest Rumor is that a lot of people don't like our president. Oh boo hoo.

Cheers
Wino

[RiverCity]

Must be a slow news day.
Didn't come from us journos. Came from the spokesperson of The Only President We Have. Question is: Why would the staff of TOPWH need to send out something like that? (a) Maybe to show determination in the face of danger. (b) Maybe to show how pilots from other nations will keep their mouths shut, unlike those from a certain English-speaking superpower. (c) Maybe to show how WE can fool THEM.

[White Knight]

M.mouse - well said.

And the whole useless point of this thread ???

[Grandpa]

Yes Wino, we love him...

But I personnaly prefer Charlie Chaplin (you remember that scene, when he juggles with the globe, in "The Dictator"? Don't you?)

[Sleeve Wing]

Come on, Moderator, isn't it about time you closed this thread down.
A large number have already expressed the comment that this is making a mountain out of a pimple.
Who the hell cares if Dubya takes a two day hol. in the MidEast ?
Wind it up and let's get on with some real business !!

Regards, Sleeve. :yuk: :yuk: :ok:

[RiverCity]

Who the hell cares if Dubya takes a two day hol. in the MidEast ?
5284 views as of December 7. Some people sure care! It'll die in here of old age, but the count will still go up for a while.

[Sleeve Wing]

Sorry, RC, but only 34 even bothered to reply.
Couldn't be that all those views were prompted by the curiosity created by using a smart title ??

Rgds, Sleeve.
:confused: :confused:

[RiverCity]

In my biz, we go by how many reads we get (newspapers) or how many eyes (tv). When I came onboard, I was wondering about the "event," as I had heard, elsewhere, that it was a little fishy. This subject line made no sense, but neither did the others, so I checked here as a last resort and --sure enough-- it was the topic I was looking for.

Let me tell you, as one whose office was used by POTUS ("Journo One") because it had no windows, those FBI, Secret Service and White House Advance people are thorough, professional and really neat folks to work with. Absolute pros in every way. They also pack a lot of heat under those jackets. When AF1 is wheels down at the local airport, all friendlinesss vanishes and they go into "no bull!!!!!" mode until it's wheels up again, at which time they relax.

I accidentally appeared at the wrong outside door and had two rifles pointed at me. I could see the posting here now: "Journo shot by Secret Service team; pilots celebrate for three days."

[Zlin526]

I heard it was a bespectacled plane spotter with binoculars and an ICOM?:O

Anyone who flies into Iraq in a big shiny aeroplane with "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" emblazoned on the side is certainly not going on vacation!

[RiverCity]

ICOM? As in ham radio?

[PPRuNe Pop]

I don't think it is time to close the thread yet! But I do agree it may be running out of steam so I will see if someone can generate a new level of interest - if not, then I'll get the key out! :p

[RiverCity]

On a cruiseship message board I use (same format as this one) topics die simply by falling off the bottom of the page and ending up on page 2 or 3 or as many as the board supports.

Me, I'd rather a time limit. Like making popcorn: No pops in a week, it gets dumped. Archive the good stuff, get rid of things like this.