perils of air freighting live animals en masse?

[newscaster]

What would be the problem is transporting say 60,000 live sheep to Saudi Arabia from Australia? in batches of course, rather than them endure the fiasco that the last batch did in August not only having to bear a two week trip but also to stay on board in cramped space in the torturous heat ogf the Gulf region, also why cant pets being shipped by air freight be allowed on the main area of a freighter?because I once saw a pet being transported in the suffocating confiens of the under belly hold when there was ample space on the main deck of the 742F, did'nt make sense for the poor animal to be down there.

[Intruder]

First, the belly hold is not necessarily a "suffocating confines." Though it may be dark and noisy, it is pressurized, well veltilated and temperature-controlled when perishible cargo is carried in it. A dog in a crate wouldn't necessarily be able to tell what's [not] surrounding the crate, and surrounding stuff may help with noise insulation. Many years ago my Lab survived the round trip from Seattle to Tokyo without any lasting trauma.

BTW, pets CAN be carried on the main deck of a freighter. I don't know if forwarders will allow you to specify, but you can always ask...

Second, any number of air freight carriers will carry livestock. Some of them, if small enough, will be carried (amazingly enough) in the belly hold! Pigs can go in the belly of a 747, so I expect sheep will fit, too.

I've carried as many as 126 horses (draft/work horses, not skittish Thoroughbreds) from SEA to Okinawa on the main deck of a 747F, without injury to a single one. Thoroughbreds are carried in lots of 2-6 all the time between big-money races around the world.

Cost would be your major downside. All the rest takes the form of "been there; done that."

[Nineiron]

I have flown many consignments of cattle restrained by purpose built penning in the aircraft. The secret is to load them close enough so that they remain on their feet and anticipate the high temperature and humidity with the air conditioning. Large consignments of goats were often flown into the Middle east post Ramadan. An amusing incident at Dubai was when an inexperienced loadmaster, while waiting to offload, opened a DC8 overwing hatch to improve ventilation. The inevitable happened and within a minute or two just over 500 goats could be seen patiently waiting out on the wing. There were a lot of confused faces at the windows of passing passenger buses.

[JW411]

Unless it happened twice it was a Convair 880 and it was at Sharjah.

[Muppet Leader]

Moved a load of ostrich(s)once.
No problem in flight.
No problem unloading either.
All birds carried in specially designed pens.

Problems started once inside the freight shed, as the inspecting vet wanted to take a blood sample from several birds.
For some reason all the pens were linked and once the first pen door was opened, with many lads standing by to restrain the birds in the first pen,
All the other twenty pen doors opened simultaneously, and over 200 birds saw freedom, and decided to leg it round the facility.

I think the next couple of hours were spent by the warehouse lads shouting “round ‘em up cowboy” as they mounted
fork lifts, bicycles and pump trucks and proceeded to chase after the ostriches
:ok:

[newscaster]

So how many 747s would it have taken to fly 57,000 sheep Fremantle-Dhahran nonstop?

[Intruder]

Only one, if you have plenty of time... ;)

You'd have to find someone who knows how many sheep they can fit in a pen on a standard pallet. Off hand, I'd guess you could fit 300-400 in one load.

[CR2]

Just been scanning through IATA Live Animal Regulations & Boeing's "Live Animal Cargo Environment in Model 747-400 Freighters" (typically useless Boeing document)

Short answer is that based on above, haven't a clue. Based on gut feeling, Intruder is probably right.

[Propbladerunner]

My company tried it only once. Problem is heat and humidity. Condensation damaged the electrical system.

[Intruder]

Largest livestock load I've hauled is 126 draft horses. One of our 3 A/C packs was inop. Even with the other 2 in high flow, the main deck was W0X0F in horse-sweat fog for the entire flight -- literally no more than a few inches visibility. OTOH, the temperature was under control, and none of the horses was hurt -- they all walked off (handlers in Naha opened the pens on the loader and the horses walked directly onto truck beds!).

Since then, our FHB has been revised so that no livestock can be hauled with an inop A/C pack.

I've heard of loads of pigs that outnumbered those horses, but have no firm number.

The only systemic damage I've seen is contamination of the main deck fire detection system with ostrich dander, which caused numerous false alarms until the real cause was discovered several weeks later.

[Nineiron]

Trucking regs for livestock give the average sheep 3sq ft of space, so 25-30 on a pallet would be about right.

[Intruder]

Trucking regs for livestock give the average sheep 3sq ft of space, so 25-30 on a pallet would be about right.

That would allow for over 1000 sheep on a 744, including lower deck. Sounds like a lot of lamb chops...

[mutt]

The value of that sheep in the market is around US$160. Based on a 28 hour roundtrip with little chance of a return cargo load, it would be very difficult to fly 1000 sheep and still make money selling them.


Mutt.

[john_tullamarine]

Actually, chaps, you are missing the point of the question.

If one forgets the horse etc., charters (and they are fun, are they not ?) the best tale I can recall relates to a since defunct freight operator .....

The then Chief Pilot, a wizened and wiley old campaigner, when challenged by the Regulator regarding his non-carriage of a firearm whilst transporting "wild animals", to wit, 10 or so tonnes of oysters ........ replied, in his lovely drawl, along the lines of ... "I know that there is a risk ... but I think we'll be all right if I take along a plate, knife and fork, and a crate of appropriate condiments ..... "

[CR2]

Fun??? We used to fly 742s down to KWI after GW1 with full loads of pregnant cows. The state of the airplane afterwards... been p*ssed on, !!!!! on....

Can think of plenty of other ways of having fun...

[Intruder]

whilst transporting "wild animals", to wit, 10 or so tonnes of oysters ........ replied, in his lovely drawl, along the lines of ... "I know that there is a risk ... but I think we'll be all right if I take along a plate, knife and fork, and a crate of appropriate condiments ..... "

The plate & knife may be practical with the load of oysters, but prolly not with the "mountain oysters on the hoof"... ;)

[Nineiron]

Intruder
1000 sheep on a 744 would not be excessive. We used to fly 5- 600 sheep/goats in a narrow body aircraft (Ten 108x88 pallets fitted with double deck penning). With the aircraft properly protected - tarpaulin, ply floor, plastic sheeting and a good depth of moisture absorbant material, the clean up is rapid and relatively simple.
JT
Is there any truth in a report that oysters open and close in flight in sympathy with what would be the local tide?

[john_tullamarine]

... nineiron ... can't say .... I flew for another operator which didn't do oysters ... we, however, often had conversations in the wee hours en-route about how we were going to have to line up a million day old chicks in order to use the .38 as we only ever had a few rounds with us ....

[Flightmech]

Done several trips with livestock on the MD11F.(3 packs in full flow configuration with econ off and cabin alt kept around 9000' to reduce cabin temp further, not forgetting to exercise the outflow valve now and again to prevent it freezing due to the animals sweat & moisturein the cabin air!)

Hamburg-Sharjah, Cologne-Sharjah, Cologne-Kuwait with 165 pregnant dairy cattle.

Jo'Burg-Recife-Orlando with 13 fully grown male Rhino's (p**s like treetrunks!)

plus the odd one with monkeys etc. All charters.

Good for the fun but not for the smells!

[Black Baron]

In a previous life I used to harass sheep around the great West Australian plains on a Yamaha AG200, and can tell you that a single merino ram lamb, weighs on average 20 kg.

So if my calculations are correct, you could fit around 5000 of the maniacs inside a 744's hold, and you would have to sell each one a ticket for around $20.
It would be some stampede if they all broke loose on the apron.
Love the story about the goats on the wing, and mercy shootings of chicks and shellfish!
:ok: