"First Officer Programs"

[Chippie Chappie]

Hi folks,

I'm looking for comments from corporate pilots regarding how they view job applicants that buy hours thorough one of the various "First Officer" or "Turbine/Jet" Programs that are bassed in the States where at the end of it, you walk away with 250-500 hours SIC. Is this viewed with the same distain that some associate with buying type ratings for jobs with airlines or does how the hours are obtained not really matter?

Also, are there any pilots out there who have done the program and returned to the UK to fine gainful employment?

thanks in advance,

Chips

[The Jetlag Kid]

I can only give you my STRONG personal opinion - I wouldn't do it! Companies (and pilots) who use "paying" occupants in required crewmember seats are considered by many to be little better than pimps. Fortunately, there aren't very many of those type out there - they tend to come and go quite rapidly. I could discuss this a lot more, but all I would be doing is adding exclamation points behind my original statement.

There was a popular trend a few years ago where you had to pay for your training in order to get a job. This tactic was used by the folks at NetJets. The thinking was that it would lower costs by eliminating the loss associated when newly trained pilots left for "greener pastures" soon after their training was completed. Fortunately, this trend too, has pretty much gone away.

There is another variation on the same theme - paying for a type-rating. Personally, I believe that is a slightly different situation. In the past, companies wanted pilots with a lot of experience "in type". This implied a type-rating. It was the old "Catch 22", fortunately, there is an ever increasing number of companies that realize that it's the overall experience level that is most important, not the specific number of hours that a pilot has in a specific make and model. Would I buy a type-rating? Perhaps, but I would only do it as a last resort. There is no stigma associated with it like there is with a "paying for training" job.

My personal recommendation for corporate pilot wannabes:

(These are in no particular order.)

Get a 4-year degree in something that will allow you to support yourself and your family in the event that you lose your medical at some point in your career. Avoid "airplane flying" type degrees in aeronautical science. They don't enhance your desirability or employability when you're looking for a job and they won't really help you much if you end up working outside aviation. Get a degree in a field that you could enjoy working in if a push came to a shove.

Spend some time as a flight instructor. As in any teaching situation, it's always the teacher who learns the most. The same thing applies in aviation. Getting your CFI and actively instructing for a while will teach you things about flying that you will only learn through instructing. In my case, I had an ATP and over 3,000 hours before I got my CFI. I thought that somehow I had "dodged a bullet" by being able to go directly into Part 135 (charter) flying after I got my commercial and instrument rating. I was wrong. I ended up getting my CFI certificate so that I could keep my hand in flying while I went to school full time to finish up my degree. I learned a lot and to this day the lessons are very valuable and useful. Don't avoid becoming a CFI, in my opinion it is a valuable step in your aviation career.

As to how long to be an active CFI? That's a very good question. My personal opinion is that you'll probably get about all your going to get out of flight instructing after 500 to 1000 hours. Remember, there is a big difference between 1,000 hours of experience and 1 hour of experience repeated 1,000 times. CFI's tend to fall into the latter category.

Most employers look for a pilot who has "been around the block" a few times. In other words, someone who "been there and done that". How do you get that initial experience? There are as many ways as there are pilots, but unless you’re military or very lucky it will mean that you’re going to spend some time flight instructing, then on to flying freight or charter, single-pilot, in clapped out Navajos, twin-Cessnas, or heaven forbid, twin-Beeches. Just as good, if not better, is flying for a commuter. Although these are definitely not the glamour jobs, those guys quickly learn what it is to go around the block a few times. A few years of that kind of flying and they're ready for almost anything else that comes along. It only gets easier from that point.

To make it in this business you have to be very focused, almost fanatical. It's rare that you ever hear of anyone having a successful aviation career who stumbled into it because he/she didn't have anything better to do.

Bottom line is this - if you're definitely not going to walk up to a corporate chief pilot with a "wet" commercial license or ATP and get a job. Like anything else, you've got to pay your dues and get some experience. This isn’t the military and we don't do "ab initio" training. There aren't very many, if any, "thousand hour wonders" in corporate cockpits these days – the insurance companies have made sure of that. Same thing goes for “cheapie” type-ratings. You better have something issued by FlightSafety or Simuflite or you’re just kidding yourself.

You will have a lot of career options to choose from. Take your time and investigate them all. Although many people focus on airline flying, it isn’t the only game in town. The post 9/11 world will be very challenging for airlines and I believe that it’s going to get much worse before it gets any better. As far as any new hiring by the airlines, there are a lot of pilots out on furlough with more on the horizon. It’s not a very pretty picture right now. Will things improve? Of course they will, but it isn’t going to happen over night.

On of the bright spots in aviation right now is the corporate segment. At one time corporate salaries were significantly lower that the airline's. This isn't necessarily true any more. Granted, there are a few individuals with each major airline who will make a quarter million a year; but we have those too – just not as many. I know of several pilots who were flying for 121 carriers who left their airlines and went corporate. For qualified pilots starting corporate salaries are in the high $90K’s and I know several friends who started at over $100,000. In my case, I make about what an experienced Southwest captain makes. Today the major differences aren’t necessarily financial. Personally, once the novelty of flying “big” airplanes wore off, I found airline flying boring; but, to each his own.

Bottom line is you will be in a very good position if you take the time to make yourself marketable.

The Jetlag Kid

[Flintstone]

Er Jetlag .

How can there be two "bottom line"s?:=

[Chippie Chappie]

Flintstone - when you hit bottom and then rock bottom (some even hit rock bottom and then proceed to dig so that's 3 bottoms) ;)

Jetlag Kid - Thanks for your views. Pesonlly, not looking for the easiest way into a job, just any way - that works. I too like to think of aviation as a nobel profession (naive, huh?) and hate the idea of paying for it, so if it's frowned upon by those that do the hiring and firing that's that!

Incidently, I already have a bit over 1000 hours instructing with around 1600hrs TT (only 60 ME though :ugh: ) and would love to fly anything - freight, night, even Michael Jackson. The thing is, I haven't flown professionally for 4 years now (at 28 years old) and that doesn't look good on a resume. I also lack that coverted Green Card (I have British and Australian passports though which leaves a few doors open).

Bizjets is where I want to be though and will keep plugging away and exploring options to make myself that marketable person that all you experienced guys want to hire :)

Cheers,

Chips

[The Jetlag Kid]

Sorry about the "two bottom lines". But hey, you have to take what you get when it's early in the morning and I've just waken up - like right now for example.

Don't give up your dreams. You've got exactly twice the total flight time that I had when I was 28. I wish that I could offer you some meaningful advice, but I have little (read: no) understanding of how one breaks into the game on your side of the Atlantic. You said that you have cards for England and Australia? What about Canada? I would guess that there would probably be a better option.

Oh well, I've got to run.

The Jetlag Kid