Practice PANs on 'Guard'
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Practice PANs on 'Guard'
ATC825 – Use of Guard channel for practice PANs
Historically, I believe the RAF set up the Distress and Diversion Cell (D&D) in the UK to aid the larger number of inexperienced Military pilots flying less reliable aircraft around the UK, when there was less coverage on regular frequencies. This might be unique in the World. They chose to use the International emergency frequency of 121.5MHZ.
The complaint from the rest of the World is that this frequency is monitored by all airliners 'on Guard' and that this distraction causes loss of comms and annoyance.
One suggested solution is a second frequency for practice, as the RAF already use on UHF. Not only is this going to be expensive but also it's just not actually using the emergency frequency. You might just as well use a local frequency, which brings me to my point.
Locally the Royal Navy aircraft use both their own station Approach frequency and our local airport Radar frequency for practice PANs, As far as I am aware, they don't use D&D. In discussion with our local RN ATC, they correctly pointed out that the first port of call if you have a problem should be the unit you are already working.
Now, I teach all our students to always be in contact with an ATC unit and obtain either a Basic or Traffic service. In the case of our long cross-country, we may get out of range of a local Lower Airspace Radar Service (LARS) in which case there is an excellent Nationwide service called London Information - not Radar (though there are suggestions they have access) but used properly a great resource.
So, contrary to the advice from the RAF, I'll now be teaching my students how to make a practice PAN with our local Radar units. They both indicate a willingness to participate (subject to workload).
Maybe it's time to either disband D&D altogether or if the RAF think they still need it (really?) then at least have a sea change in how we teach practicing emergencies.
TOO
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I’m surprised that professional aircrew complain about the correct and legal use of the distress frequency. If a practice transmission is intrusive (and I agree that sometimes it can be), it’s the mere flick of a switch to temporarily deselect 121.5. Another flick of the switch re selects it. If it causes a temporary problem whilst working another frequency on another radio, arguably there’s no need to listen on 121.5 anyway.
Perhaps some long haul crews don’t like their afternoon nap being unnecessarily disturbed, or find that correct use of the guard frequency causes an interruption of the football/tennis results that they’ve asked for, or blanks out the puerile animal noises and belching that some seem to amuse themselves with on the frequency.
Perhaps some long haul crews don’t like their afternoon nap being unnecessarily disturbed, or find that correct use of the guard frequency causes an interruption of the football/tennis results that they’ve asked for, or blanks out the puerile animal noises and belching that some seem to amuse themselves with on the frequency.
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As a long time FI, the various schools and clubs I've instructed at have all received phone calls from D&D to make practice calls on Fx to help their staff with training. It's use for a position fix for students is paramount, airspace in the UK is complex and the CAA encourage it's use to prevent incursions before they occur. I've encouraged my students to use it sooner rather than later to help, and not to be afraid of using it.
Moody airline crew having their naps interrupted by training is a rather pathetic excuse to disband or ban training on 121.5. What's even worse is morons saying "GUARD, GUARD" on Fx during a call, thankfully only a few times in many years, but I'm sure it will happen again.
So in short, no. Training on 121.5 is required on both ends, and is a very useful tool for both commercial and GA.
Moody airline crew having their naps interrupted by training is a rather pathetic excuse to disband or ban training on 121.5. What's even worse is morons saying "GUARD, GUARD" on Fx during a call, thankfully only a few times in many years, but I'm sure it will happen again.
So in short, no. Training on 121.5 is required on both ends, and is a very useful tool for both commercial and GA.
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I would use D&D and also Birmingham radar for fix and qdm back home, until one day Brum said can't help you, so thought sod em, shall not bother again. Haven't for 6 years now.
There was a time when most UK ATC towers had VDF available and very useful it was too - not least when D&D would sometimes telephone local towers when their own DF couldn't raise an adequate fix. Unfortunately the accountants couldn't justify it and most were withdrawn.
Sadly there is always a suspicion (stronger in some instances than others) that solo studes or PPLs lost on cross countries sometimes abuse the system to find their way home or get a position fix. I've heard many where we looked at each other and said "that isn't a legit Practice Pan!".
The Guard! Guard! police are seldom British who recognise the system, much more often Europeans to whom it is not familiar.
The Guard! Guard! police are seldom British who recognise the system, much more often Europeans to whom it is not familiar.
"that isn't a legit Practice Pan!".
Please practice as much as you want. It is free and one day it may save your or another person’s life.
One thing that I recall was that, years ago in Canada, folks used 123.45 to talk to another aircraft without cluttering up an ATC channel.. “ABC for XYZ meet me on Numbers Victor”. Most useful.
Then the DOT/MOT got all upset and said it was forbidden due to the requirement to use the freq for “Operational Needs”.
We never saw any facility using 123.45.
We asked some DOT/MOT inspectors where this sudden change had come and from whom. The answer..”We don’t know it just suddenly came down from ‘The Very High Priced Help’ with no explanation given.
Requests for a new air to air channel sank without a bubble into the bureaucratic morass.
Then the DOT/MOT got all upset and said it was forbidden due to the requirement to use the freq for “Operational Needs”.
We never saw any facility using 123.45.
We asked some DOT/MOT inspectors where this sudden change had come and from whom. The answer..”We don’t know it just suddenly came down from ‘The Very High Priced Help’ with no explanation given.
Requests for a new air to air channel sank without a bubble into the bureaucratic morass.
I think 123.45Mhz was used Internationally as a chat frequency however; the fact is that it was not allocated for that purpose and could have been allocated to another Service. Whether or not it was is a different matter. Radio requires a degree of discipline and if everyone chose a frequency for their own specific purpose the whole thing would degenerate into chaos. That said, the Military were very good at picking their own frequencies and GPS appeared in unallocated bands. At the start of GPS, the UK Post Office offered to supply licences for £5 each!
ICAO Annex 10 states that “123.45 Mhz shall be designated for use as an Air-to-Air communications channel to enable aircraft engaged in flights over remote and oceanic areas, out of range of VHF ground stations, to exchange necessary operational information and to facilitate the resolution of operational problems“.
Regrettably, at least on the North Atlantic, it was often plagued by anything but 'necessary operational information'!
Regrettably, at least on the North Atlantic, it was often plagued by anything but 'necessary operational information'!
One thing that I recall was that, years ago in Canada, folks used 123.45 to talk to another aircraft without cluttering up an ATC channel.. “ABC for XYZ meet me on Numbers Victor”. Most useful.
Then the DOT/MOT got all upset and said it was forbidden due to the requirement to use the freq for “Operational Needs”.
We never saw any facility using 123.45.
We asked some DOT/MOT inspectors where this sudden change had come and from whom. The answer..”We don’t know it just suddenly came down from ‘The Very High Priced Help’ with no explanation given.
Requests for a new air to air channel sank without a bubble into the bureaucratic morass.
Then the DOT/MOT got all upset and said it was forbidden due to the requirement to use the freq for “Operational Needs”.
We never saw any facility using 123.45.
We asked some DOT/MOT inspectors where this sudden change had come and from whom. The answer..”We don’t know it just suddenly came down from ‘The Very High Priced Help’ with no explanation given.
Requests for a new air to air channel sank without a bubble into the bureaucratic morass.
Go Canada 118.67
Go Company your company frequency
Then go ***** plus a nickel lots of frequencies to gossip about the weather on
Use of either of these when actually lost wilfully obscures the fact that this isn't a training exercise in good weather where everyone knows perfectly well where they are, but in reality it's at best an urgency situation that could rapidly escalate. That dishonestly puts the controller in quite another mindset and the perpetrator in a self-inflicted increase of hazard.
So no, not all calls are legit at all.
btw, the reason we have no air-to-air freq in UK is because aircraft radio installations are subject to strictly controlled use by the licencing regulations which state categorically that they are authorised for air to ground and ground to air comms only. As every UK pilot with a RT licence ought to know from basic air-law and radio training...(probably a carry-over from early Post Office regulations on radio transmissions which were exceedingly restrictive),
Last edited by meleagertoo; 8th Mar 2023 at 13:54.
Meleagertoo
“btw, the reason we have no air-to-air freq in UK is because aircraft radio installations are subject to strictly controlled use by the licencing regulations which state categorically that they are authorised for air to ground and ground to air comms only. As every UK pilot with a RT licence ought to know from basic air-law and radio training...(probably a carry-over from early Post Office regulations on radio transmissions which were exceedingly restrictive),”
Please forgive a stupid question:
Since radio frequencies are to be used only for Air to Ground and Ground to Air Purposes only.
If I hear a Mayday or Pan call from another aircraft while I am airborne does this mean I can not respond to it?
If I am intercepted and Ace McCool in his pointy fighter is threatening to turn me into falling debris on 121.500 I can not respond to his calls? Is he not in violation of the same regulations? I assume as he is military he is not limited to solely A>G and G>A comms otherwise he could not berate his long-suffering #2.
The Mother Country sure have some strange rules and regulations. I assume these date from daze when you only had radios with 2 or 3 crystal controlled frequencies to transmit on.
As an aside: Well I remember when car/truck CB radios became popular in North America in the early 70’s and we started to hear folks using terms like 10-4, What’s your 20? and See you on the flip-flop. Fortunately a short lived habit. The memory of the berating that one tower gave to a miscreant silly enough to use such terminology still makes me smile.
Cheers.
“btw, the reason we have no air-to-air freq in UK is because aircraft radio installations are subject to strictly controlled use by the licencing regulations which state categorically that they are authorised for air to ground and ground to air comms only. As every UK pilot with a RT licence ought to know from basic air-law and radio training...(probably a carry-over from early Post Office regulations on radio transmissions which were exceedingly restrictive),”
Please forgive a stupid question:
Since radio frequencies are to be used only for Air to Ground and Ground to Air Purposes only.
If I hear a Mayday or Pan call from another aircraft while I am airborne does this mean I can not respond to it?
If I am intercepted and Ace McCool in his pointy fighter is threatening to turn me into falling debris on 121.500 I can not respond to his calls? Is he not in violation of the same regulations? I assume as he is military he is not limited to solely A>G and G>A comms otherwise he could not berate his long-suffering #2.
The Mother Country sure have some strange rules and regulations. I assume these date from daze when you only had radios with 2 or 3 crystal controlled frequencies to transmit on.
As an aside: Well I remember when car/truck CB radios became popular in North America in the early 70’s and we started to hear folks using terms like 10-4, What’s your 20? and See you on the flip-flop. Fortunately a short lived habit. The memory of the berating that one tower gave to a miscreant silly enough to use such terminology still makes me smile.
Cheers.
Looking at a Practical Guide to the use of D&D services:
Practice Pan and Training Fix requests
The D&D actively promote pilots to use the facility to conduct Practice Pan and Training Fix scenarios under normal flight conditions, so that they are familiar with the service that can be provided, should a real emergency occur. The D&D are there to help aircrew and conducting a Practice Pan and Training Fix also provides D&D controllers the opportunity to hone their skills too.- The system can be used for any pilot within the UK FIR and it is a free service
- The service is available 24 hours a day, 365 days a year
- The service is available for pilots who are lost or who are unsure of their position
- The service is available for practice/training fixes whenever requested
Since radio frequencies are to be used only for Air to Ground and Ground to Air Purposes only.
If I hear a Mayday or Pan call from another aircraft while I am airborne does this mean I can not respond to it?
If I hear a Mayday or Pan call from another aircraft while I am airborne does this mean I can not respond to it?
CAP 413
Relayed Emergency Message 8.24
Any aeronautical station or aircraft knowing of an emergency incident may transmit a distress message whenever such action is necessary to obtain assistance for the aircraft or vessel in distress. In such CAP 413 Chapter 8: Emergency Phraseology 8 June 2020 Page 9 circumstances, it should be made clear that the aircraft transmitting is not itself in distress.
You may find this elsewhere under the heading called; 'common sense'
btw, the reason we have no air-to-air freq in UK is because aircraft radio installations are subject to strictly controlled use by the licencing regulations which state categorically that they are authorised for air to ground and ground to air comms only. As every UK pilot with a RT licence ought to know from basic air-law and radio training...(probably a carry-over from early Post Office regulations on radio transmissions which were exceedingly restrictive),
CAP 413
Relayed Emergency Message 8.24
Any aeronautical station or aircraft knowing of an emergency incident may transmit a distress message whenever such action is necessary to obtain assistance for the aircraft or vessel in distress. In such CAP 413 Chapter 8: Emergency Phraseology 8 June 2020 Page 9 circumstances, it should be made clear that the aircraft transmitting is not itself in distress.
You may find this elsewhere under the heading called; 'common sense'
As you say “Common Sense” should prevail. Besides in an emergency you may do anything necessary to save life be it your own or someone else’s.
Article 45 of the ITU General Radio Regulations makes it clear that communication between aircraft stations is possible and gives the ground station the right to intervene:
45.4 § 4 If an aeronautical station finds it necessary to intervene in communications
between aircraft stations, these stations shall comply with the instructions given by the aeronautical
station.
between aircraft stations, these stations shall comply with the instructions given by the aeronautical
station.
However should I be stupid enough as follow the word of the law I could not enter into air to air comms to advise the aircraft that I have relayed the distress message for or initiated one on his behalf nor advise him his wing is, indeed, actually on fire or that there is a suitable airfield in the vicinity of which he may not be aware.