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Old 16th Jun 2017, 07:21   #1 (permalink)
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Quick CPL(H) question for instructors (UK)

Please bear with me, I'm trying to find a definitive answer to this. For me, the extracts below shows me that the CAA appear to not be able to differentiate it's arse from it's elbow, or it knows exactly what it's doing and doesn't give a toss.

In theory, if you have a CPL(H) and therefore require a Class 1 medical, you can "fail" the medical with colour vision deficiencies. However, the CAA will grant a licence with restrictions, as per:

"Class 1 applicants who fail advanced colour vision testing can request individual assessment by the Authority under MED.B.001 (“issued by the Licensing Authority”) and consideration will be given to restriction of privileges to “valid by day only” and “no public Commercial Air Transport” (VCL + SSL-ILA + SSL-NCAT)."


HOWEVER!

In order to obtain a CPL(H) in the first place you must compelte the CPL(H) training and pass the assessments/exams. So therefore must complete the following:

"Total flying training - at least 135 hours, including all progress tests, of which 5 hours may be instrument ground time If you hold an ICAO compliant PPL(H), 50% of the hours flown can be credited, up to a maximum of 40 hours, of which up to 20 hours can be dual instruction if you have a helicopter night rating, or 50 hours, of which up to 25 hours may be dual instruction,
The total flying training requirement (above) must include the following components:

Dual instruction
Visual instruction
Instrument instruction
MCC
PIC
Cross-country flying
Night flying
Instrument time"


This requirement includes the 5 hours of night flying.

So my question to instructors is:

Is there any form of dispensation available to allow completion of the CPL(H) but not complete the Night Flying element of the CPL(H), allowing the issuing of a restricted CPL(H) as per the CAA recommendations?

If the answer to the above question is "no". Then I don't see why the CAA would include the option for restrictions on a CPL(H) licence, due to colour vision issues, if you can't obtain a CPL(H) (or even do the course) in the first place!
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 08:38   #2 (permalink)
 
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You may pass an initial Class one medical , go on and successfully pass the skills test and be awarded a CPL H.

The next year you may fail the Class 1 medical on colour deficiency , thus giving you a restricted medical ...thus a restricted CPL H.....
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 09:11   #3 (permalink)
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This is a bit ridiculous though. So, those found with a colour deficiency who hold an existing CPL(H) can continue to operate (albeit in a restricted capacity), but someone who has exactly the same medical results cannot obtain a CPL(H) in the first place?

That's quite distinctly discriminatory. Unless, of course, the answer to my question is "Yes", and that a CPL(H) can still be obtained with a restricted medical.
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Old 16th Jun 2017, 09:21   #4 (permalink)
 
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its not discriminatory , as you have been awarded the license . To get the licence you need to pass an initial medical......your medical standards can reduce over time, but there is a limit .

Just get a PPL ?

Last edited by ersa; 16th Jun 2017 at 09:33.
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Old 17th Jun 2017, 07:40   #5 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Then I don't see why the CAA would include the option for restrictions on a CPL(H) licence, due to colour vision issues, if you can't obtain a CPL(H) (or even do the course) in the first place!
You seem to be under the impression that the CAA have some control over this, it is European Legislation that they are obliged to follow and have little or no authority to change anything.
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Old 17th Jun 2017, 18:25   #6 (permalink)
 
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Things may have changed a bit, but the CAA allowed me a CPL(A) despite having a restricted Class 1 medical due CVD and no night qualification/rating. I am restricted to day only and no public transport, but these restrictions are on my medical, not the licence.
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Old 18th Jun 2017, 09:52   #7 (permalink)
 
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The CAA allowed a good many in the past, but EASA is not as flexible.
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Old 18th Jun 2017, 10:35   #8 (permalink)
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Do any CPL(H) instructors reading this have an answer to my question though? Is the night element of a CPL(H) optional in any way, shape or form?
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Old 19th Jun 2017, 10:11   #9 (permalink)
 
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If your not convinced send the caa an email
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Old 19th Jun 2017, 11:28   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ersa View Post
If your not convinced send the caa an email
Convinced by what?

I thought my question was quite a straightforward one. Can the CPL(H) be completed without doing the night flying element of the course?

Surely it's a straightforward yes or no answer by somone who teaches CPL(H)?
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Old 19th Jun 2017, 15:53   #11 (permalink)
 
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The answer is no, you cannot complete a CPL(H) course without the 5 hours of night flying unless you already hold a night rating.

Quote:
Appendix 3 K. to Part-FCL, para 10

Applicants without a night rating helicopter shall be given additionally at least 5 hours night flight instruction comprising 3 hours of dual instruction including at least 1 hour of cross-country navigation and 5 solo night circuits. Each circuit shall include a take-off and a landing.
As Whopity has already indicated, the UK CAA does not have the power to exempt anyone from the Regulation
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Old 19th Jun 2017, 18:52   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BillieBob View Post
The answer is no, you cannot complete a CPL(H) course without the 5 hours of night flying unless you already hold a night rating.

As Whopity has already indicated, the UK CAA does not have the power to exempt anyone from the Regulation
Thank you for the clarification.
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