Can I instruct in US without working papers

[Genghis the Engineer]

Denker is a well known reference and has been for many years.


For good or bad (sometimes both) this sort of poor behaviour usually does get picked up by the community and people get weeded out. I know of an FI in the UK recently whose contract was quietly terminated when it was found that he was rather excessively bigging up his status and achievements. Less impressively, somebody who used to post regularly here once failed to get an instructors job because they were considered "unsafe". Specifically they had oversped a rotor when a 30hr PPL - once they had CPL/FI an several tens of times the hours I tend to think that it was just a learning point but, no, several schools turned them down for instructing jobs.

Anybody with any record of "dodgy" behaviour won't last long anywhere near their home patch, and quite possibly further afield as well.

So mitirino will either adjust attitude, or be quietly forced out by the community. The risk, really, is of the damage they cause on the way.

G

[nonsense]

My understanding, gained by personal research ten years ago, is that as a non citizen visiting on a tourist visa, not only could I not work, I could not investigate business/investment opportunities, nor could I even do voluntary charity work such as help out in a soup kitchen.

Basically, if your activities could be construed at any level as doing what otherwise might be paid work for a legitimate local (citizen, green card or correct visa), then you are in breach of your tourist visa conditions.


But then who takes legal or immigration advice from a pilot's website?

[BigGrecian]

So even if it is for $0 I still can not do it? Is this the case?

When USCIS and the SEVIS began the study of the implications of the F-1 visa in aviation and OPT, to supersede the J-1 visa, the US government determined that the "logging of flight time to gain experience" (A rough quote) constituted remuneration/work. I will need to see whether I have this document to provide the actual quote.

Additionally, you do not have to be paid money to be covered by working laws, immigration laws and labour laws, and this is true in many countries not just the USA.

[mitirino]

So mitirino will either adjust attitude, or be quietly forced out by the community. The risk, really, is of the damage they cause on the way.

I'll have to adjust I guess. It's not only the community that weeds out but flying itself.

[mitirino]

Additionally, you do not have to be paid money to be covered by working laws, immigration laws and labour laws,

That's what I was afraid of... that the definition of "work" is not only when done for money. I'll have to speak with a lawyer. Thank you very much!

[mitirino]

But then who takes legal or immigration advice from a pilot's website?

I do.

If enough people bring up legitimately looking statements like yours, which statements say "No", then I won't even try talking to a lawyer.

If everyone says "yes", then I'd check with the lawyer first.

Thanks

[fernytickles]

Interesting discussion. But one thing I'm confuzzed about -

You said

I just can't have a full time instructor job with two kids and all the driving around that this entails.

Won't it take a lot longer to drive from Toronto to the USA, link up with flight schools, link up with students etc, etc, than it would take to work locally?

I'm not so sure the comment about volunteering was correct. Just look at the number of international volunteers at Oshkosh each year as an example.

[mitirino]

Won't it take a lot longer to drive from Toronto to the USA, link up with flight schools, link up with students etc, etc,

I was thinking to do this once a week... Saturday. It's a long drive, yes... just did it the other day - 2.5h. But if it's once a week on a weekend I'll survive it.

I'll check with an immigration lawyer and update everyone here.

[mitirino]

As an interesting fact - not a single flight instructor at KIAG and no FBO to rent an airplane for flight instruction.

So technically if I figure out how to fly there I won't be pulling the rug under anyone with higher order dreams and hopes than mine. And all the people who see no curves in the straight roads can keep driving (and flying) straight.