Military credit for PPL candidate

[Broadlands]

I am due to test an ex nav soon and have checked his hours. The military credit paragraph (Sec 4, Part O, page 3) says:-


"EFTGs and QMP(A)s with a minimum of 10hours logged as PIC/P1 Capt or PICUS/1st Pilot Non-Capt are given full credit as regards the requirement to undergo a training course prior to taking the skill test...."

I am having difficulty understanding the exact meaning of 'full credit'. Could anybody shed light if it means all experience if a minimum of 10hours has been surpassed, or a maximum of 10 hrs no matter how many hours?


I telephoned the helpline but they did not know the answer.
Thanks to anyone who can help.

[S-Works]

An ex Nav or pilot?

[Broadlands]

An ex Victor (or possibly VC10) Nav

[Whopity]

No Credit!

[S-Works]

Whoppity beat me to it. No credit.

[Broadlands]

Ok, no credit, but there is PIC time in the military logbook.
Do navs have to pass EFT before nav training? If they do then why is credit not allowed?
Test is scheduled for Friday and just want to make sure the hours are correct.

[Whopity]

Do navs have to pass EFT before nav training?

No; he may be a chopped pilot however; the hours would be in a different log book! Pilots and Navs do not have a common log book.

why is credit not allowed?

Nothing has been negotiated by MOD

[Level Attitude]

I am having difficulty understanding the exact meaning of 'full credit'.

Full Credit means they are exempt from doing a PPL course of Training. They are only required to pass a Skills Test (of course some training may be necessary/beneficial prior to Test).

Partial Credit means a reduced hours PPL course of training would be required.
However, I accept Whopity's statement that no such credit has been negotiated.

Which means your candidate would not be eligible for Test unless they had at least 45 hours of instruction/supervised solo from an EASA Instructor (am assuming a Part-FCL Licence) which included flying all the exercises in the PPL syllabus - and, I would guess, would also need valid passes in all theoretical knowledge exams.

[BEagle]

The PIC time to which you refer was probably gained at a UAS back in the days when all previous flight time under military training was allowable towards a PPL.

That remains the case for the NPPL; however, with the advent of part-FCL, 22 Gp didn't negotiate any credit towards Part-FCL licences for anyone who hadn't passed EFT. Not even for PIC time in SEP aeroplanes such as the Chipmunk, Bulldog or Grob Tutor. They also completely destroyed the carefully-crafted military accreditation scheme which had worked well for many years under JAR-FCL.... Was this to 'lock in' pilots who were getting so fed up with the RAF that they were leaving in droves for the airlines? Who knows - but if that was the intention, it hasn't worked!

The solution (at the moment) is for the chap to obtain an NPPL, then do the NPPL-to-LAPL-to-PPL conversion. That way he secures credit for some exams and for all his previous flight time; he doesn't actually need to hold a LAPL but when he meets the NPPL-to-LAPL requirements, he can go on to complete the LAPL-to-PPL conversion.

The CAA have confirmed that this is a perfectly acceptable (to them) workaround until 22Gp can find the time to sort out the mess of their own creation. Don't expect this to happen anytime soon as they claim to be 'too busy with more important matters'...... Such as releasing the 'Future of the UAS Scheme' paper, which is no doubt waiting until after the election. But will there actually be any future for UAS flying? It's now almost 10 years since the infamous Marston 'report', perhaps the next step will be even worse than that was?

[S-Works]

I would not hold your breath. I work for 22Grp and I can't even get a fueler to come and operate the Jet fuel farm at work that holds 22,000litres of fuel, I have to fly to another RAF station to refuel.......

[Broadlands]

Thanks for the responses. I just read the reference in 804 and assumed he must have been an eft graduate.


Sounds like all the good work getting aircrew recognised has been undone.