Do P1(S) hours count as P1 time towards CPL issue?

[this is my username]

Hi All

Can anyone tell me if P1(S) hours logged during successful flight tests (UK CAA NPPL GST and NST, , FAA PPL, CPL, Instrument and Multi tests) count towards the 100hr P1 on aeroplanes required for an EASA CPL? I think the answer is probably "yes" but I would hate to have my application bounced!

Before anyone mentions that I needed 100hrs P1 for the FAA CPL, I have a load of hours logged on powered flying machines which are recognised by the FAA for licence issue but not by EASA, and I have a lot of FAA "PIC" hours acquired during instrument raining etc which EASA don't recognise as P1/PIC.

Either way I'm only a couple of hours out, but it would be handy to know whether I need to do a bit more aeroplane flying.

Thanks

[chrisbl]

The answer is yes according CAP804, and you should make sure that you have the required hours completed before you book your CPL skills test.




Work with your CPL instructor and make sure you have it nailed.

[Curtis E Carr]

chrisbl

Can you provide the precise reference in CAP 804 for this?

Thanks.

[Whopity]

P1S was always accepted by the UK for licence issue subject to certain maxima however; there is no such thing in Part FCL. PICUS is the nearest thing and under EASA only relates to flights as a co-pilot. CAP 804 does allow PICUS to be used for tests in SPA, but I can find no reference to it being creditable towards an EASA Modular CPL. SECTION 4 Part L (E)

EXPERIENCE
12 The applicant for a CPL(A) shall have completed at least 200 hours flight time, including at least:
(a) 100 hours as PIC, of which 20 hours of cross-country fl ight as PIC, which shall include a VFR cross-country fl ight of at least 540 km (300 NM), in the course of which full stop landings at two aerodromes different from the aerodrome of departure shall be made;

It is creditable towards a MPL FCL 325A

Of these 70 hours, 20 shall be of VFR cross-country flight time as PIC, or crosscountry flight time made up of at least 10 hours as PIC and 10 hours as PICUS.

no doubt based on the FCL010 definition

‘Pilot-in-command under supervision’ (PICUS) means a co-pilot performing, under the supervision of the pilot-in-command, the duties and functions of a pilot-in-command.

As all requiremeents for licence issue must have been met before you can take the Skill Test, the ATO should be able to advise you as they have to make the recommendation for test based on the same criteria.

[this is my username]

I think I have just found the answer ... p132 of CAP 804 has a handy table listing a load of permutations for what should be logged when.

"Pilot undergoing any form of flight test with a EASA or CAA Authorised Examiner (other than case K." is logged as "PICUS" in the "P1" column.

Unfortunately that means that all of the hours I have logged on FAA checkrides don't count ....

Happy days. I'm glad I found that out now rather than when I apply to have my licence issued!

[BillieBob]

‘Pilot-in-command under supervision’ (PICUS) means a co-pilot performing, under the supervision of the pilot-in-command, the duties and functions of a pilot-in-command.

.... and if you check the definition of co-pilot you will find that it (and, therefore, PICUS) relates only to multi-pilot aircraft. The fact is that, in the UK at least, the terms in FCL.010 mean precisely what the CAA chooses them to mean - just like the rest of the Regulation.

[nick14]

If you look higher up the AMC there is a section which concerns single pilot PICUS:

(b)(1)
(II) the applicant for or the holder of a pilot licence may log as PIC time all solo flight time, flight time as SPIC and flight time under supervision provided that such SPIC time and flight time under supervision is countersigned by the instructor.

So I don't believe PICUS only applies to MPA.

[Mach1.1]

There are, I think, a couple of things that you need to be aware of. I am not too sure exactly what Part-FCL says but JAR-FCL as was stated that the hours flown on the course counted as training for the test so therefore it seems to me that you would need to have all the solo hours (from whatever the source) prior to undertaking the relevant flight test. The second point (and I certainly don't wish this on you), is that hours flown on test may only be counted as PICUS if the test is passed. A partial or fail means that the entire flight has to be logged as dual.