UK JAA CPL TO UK CAA EASA CPL

[greekboy]

Hello everyone,

I just need to clarify a few things as I want to achieve the conversion as time and cost efficiently as possible.

Currently hold a UK issued JAA CPL which needs to be re-issued by 15/09/14. I understand that I will get an EASA Licence after that date. Also have ELP Level 6.

The only valid ratings I have are: SET valid till 18/09/14
IMC valid till 01/09/14

My plan is to renew my MEP/ME-IR and extend my IMC, based on the ME-IR renewal test for another 25 months to get an IR(R). Is it still possible to get the IMC/IR(R) extended this way under EASA? The MEP expired 2 years ago and the ME-IR last August.

I am in the process of obtaining an ATO certificate for the MEP/ME-IR renewal.

The second question is this: Will I receive an EASA licence when I renew the MEP/ME-IR before the CPL expiry date or will I get the usual examiners signature in the ratings page of my JAR licence only and receive the EASA licence once the CPL expiry date has passed.

The latter mentioned scenario gives me time to get an ATO Certificate and renew my almost 3 year out of date SEP rating and revalidate my SET rating too without paying additional fees.

Thirdly, can I get a single ATO certificate for the SEP and MEP/ME-IR or are they separate entities?

Any feedback regarding my three questions would be super.

Thanks
gb

[nick14]

If you are renewing your ME/IR SPA you will automatically get SE privileges and so no need for the IMC as your IR superceeds it. The only thing you cannot do is exercise those IR privileges on SE aircraft as your SEP has expired.

I would renew your ME/IR then apply for the licence, the examiner will sign your ratings page in the current licence. If you get a new licence first then you will have to reapply to the CAA to get the ME/IR put back in it as the certificate of revalidation will have been removed and the rating put on the back of the licence.

As for the SEP, if the ATO has An SEP course then yes they can do both however they will need to be separate as they are for separate ratings requiring separate tests. The MEP and ME/IR will be combined.

[greekboy]

Thanks Nick14,

When you mean “apply” to have the MEP/IR placed on my new licence, do you mean the additional cost involved/paperwork or is there something more sinister?

The reason I want the IMC/IR(R) is that this may be my last ME-IR renewal and I need the IMC rating for the aerial work that I'm currently involved with. If I was fortunate enough to land an FO position then an MPA IR would not cover me for the GA gig I have now. Do you know if it's still possible to extend the IMC off the back of the ME-IR?

Thanks again.
gb

[nick14]

I mean the additional cost for the CAA to reprint the licence pages and cert of reval.

Now that I am not sure as I haven't heard of that before, why not just renew the me/IR and at your next reval just do the IMC test / SE/IR, or do the IMC test now on the single.

You won't get an airline job without an ME/IR on your licence as it's required for the type rating course. I hold MPA and SPA ME/IR and they are not too onerous to keep current with cross credit and section 6 prof check anyway.

[greekboy]

Thanks Nick14,

Yes you could get the IMC signed off and extended for 25 months pre- EASA but can't see the info in 804. I have had it done 3 times already.

I do get your point though that I can just do it in a single, but why pay more money when it's been possible to get a tick in the box for free under JAA. I'll cal the CAA, again, and try clarify.

Anyway thanks for your help.

gb

[nick14]

I think that might have been because you completed an IR prof check. Do you hold a current IMC or IR on your JAA licence? If so no need to do the IR profile just do the IMC prof check and apply for your PART-FCL licence with an IR(R). An EASA licence cannot contain any non-EASA ratings therefore you couldn't have an IR and IR(R) as they are technically the same thing although this is just my opinion not fact.

Let me know what the CAA say.

[greekboy]

CAA couldn't answer me. Or at least the person on the phone was clueless!

I did my ME-IR skills test in 2008 and when I asked to have an IMC rating added on the back of my IR, the CAA said "you don't need it." I wasn't up for a fight that day so left it.

When I did my CPL in 2009 I insisted an IMC being added to my newly issued CPL (and I knew that one new rating could be added for free). They agreed. I had already done my first ME-IR reval in the sim by the time I headed off to Gatwick so my IMC rating was valid to November 2011. Dates entered by the CAA.

Therefore the examiner each year has simply extended my IMC rating every time he does my ME-IR renewal/reval. Simples.

BTW: the cross crediting flow chart in Appendix 3 of Standard Doc 14v6 is rather strange as you cannot progress down the flow chart if you haven't got a valid SPA IR. I thought the whole aim of the cross crediting is to allow credits from MPA IR to SPA IR. Unless there is this bloody confusion again and what they actually mean by valid is previously held. Who knows..

Edited to add: If my above interpretation of the terminology is true, then it also means that a previously held SPA IR is satisfactory to enter a first MPA Type rating course.

ah well ...

[nick14]

Nope cross credit can only be applied for revalidation, both ratings must be valid.

So in effect you want IMC privileges on single engine aircraft. You haven't got a current rating IR/IMC so you will have to do a renewal check for anything. In that case go off and do an IMC renewal in an SE and apply for a Part-FCL licence and IR(r). Saves you the expense of the twin if you don't need it.

If you want an airline job, bite the bullet now and get the ME/IR back and keep hold of it on your Part-FCL licence.

For MPA/ME types you must hold a valid ME/IR regardless, SPA or MPA doesn't matter just a valid ME/IR

[Level Attitude]

IN-2014/109

The second question is this: Will I receive an EASA licence when I renew the MEP/ME-IR before the CPL expiry date or will I get the usual examiners signature in the ratings page of my JAR licence only and receive the EASA licence once the CPL expiry date has passed.

See: http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/Informa...ice2014109.pdf
You may now renew all the Ratings you wish before you actually need to apply for a Part-FCL Licence.

An EASA licence cannot contain any non-EASA ratings therefore you couldn't have an IR and IR(R) as they are technically the same thing although this is just my opinion not fact.

Not True - They are different ratings so both can be held on a UK issued Part-FCL Licence at the same time.
Useful (in the UK) if one doesn't continuously need a full IR due to the IR(R) having a 25 month validity.

Provided they are carried out in an aircraft an ME IR or SE IR Test or LPC contains all the elements required of an IMC/IRR Test/LPC and can therefore be used for both purposes.
Technically it is not that a pass in an IR Test. of itself, extends the validity of an IRR, it is that an IRR Test profile has also been flown and passed.

[Zest]

JAA CPL issued by UK to EASA CPL

Dear all,

I have a question about JAA CPL conversion to EASA? and I did not find any information in Pprune.
I was aware, 3 years ago about JAA licences conversion to EASA new licences and that JAA licences would no longer be valid once the EASA transition periods would be over.
At this moment, the information I had was that JAA licences issued by the UK CAA would be converted to Part FCL licences, and that conversions would take place when a licensing action required CAA to issue new licence documentation or by the renewal date of the JAA licence, whichever is sooner.
My CPL licence is to be re-issued not later than 09/07/2016, so I thought at this time that it could be valid until that date, or if I renewed a rating before.
I did not renew any rating since then.

I can read today on CAA website, in the key dates of the quick guide, that from 8 april 2015, an EASA Part-FCL licence will be mandatory to fly any EASA aircraft for any purpose.
Does this mean that my JAA licence is not valid anymore ? I currently hold a JAR CPL. I have not been flying this year, but I will fly again in the next months, and I want to make sure my licence is valid.

Thanks to all for your feedback.

[Mach Jump]

Does this mean that my JAA licence is not valid anymore ?

No. When EASA Licensing was introduced, all JAA Licences were recognised as EASA Licences. Your JAA Licence is valid as if it were an EASA Licence, until it expires.

You can apply to have it physically converted to a non-expiring EASA Licence at any time, so do it sooner rather than later. Just make sure that any Ratings you want to keep are current at the time of the conversion.


MJ

[Zest]

Thanks Mach Jump for your answer.
A great relief reading your message
Anyway, I will follow your advice and convert my licence as soon as I renew my IR ME.

Zest

[Zest]

Dear Mach Jump,
I come back to this subject as I have additional question about your answer.

Just make sure that any Ratings you want to keep are current at the time of the conversion.

So it means that if one of my ratings, currently existing on my JAR license, has expired when applying for my EASA licence conversion, it will not appear anymore on my EASA license ?
And it means that when proceeding to the renewal, I will have to pay for the rating fees instead of having my licence endorsed by the examiner ?

Thanks for your help

Zest

[MrAverage]

It will appear, but on the "back" of the licence. If you subsequently renew it the CAA will charge you £89 (currently) to put it back on the front.........

[Zest]

Thanks for your answer Mr Average .