FTE Jerez Instructor Recruitment

[WASALOADIE]

First of all, Taxes are higher with no personal allowance.

Rents are higher than the UK, with an additional 1 months rent equivalent payable in advance to the rental agent, plus 1 month deposit and 1 month rent. Properties are smaller than in the UK, so if you're after something of equal standard then you pay more! Water bills are more expensive unless you happen to have a well in your garden. Most of the gas is bottled and this works out more expensive per unit, however you are likely to use less. Electricity works out about the same cost per unit as the UK.

Food works out on average about the same, local produce tends to be cheaper and other tends to be similar or slightly higher.

Cars (used) are more expensive than the UK. Petrol is slightly cheaper.

Eating out/entertaining is cheaper.

Jerez is a nice place with better climate, nice beaches etc within easy reach.

Agreed, it is well worth a visit to see what the place is like, but do your homework and go there with your eyes and ears open.

[Dengue_Dude]

I was approached recently and we arranged a group telephone 'interview'.

I insisted on them telling me the salary range and it wan't particularly good so binned the 'application'.

Seems not to be a happy place with lots of turmoil as well as turnover of staff.

I pity the students . . .

[SpannerInTheWerks]

I insisted on them telling me the salary range and it wan't particularly good so binned the 'application'.

That, I think, is the crux of the problem.

I understand that some, if not the majority, of sponsored cadets earn more than their instructors (?)

Whilst a comparison of salaries is perhaps irrelevant, human nature is such that the flight instructor (CPL/ATPL/FI/IRI/SEP/MEP/1000 hrs minimum) would expect to earn more than a cadet (NIL/0 hours).

It is usually the case in any other industry (including the airlines, of course) - senior/training staff earning more than junior/trainee employees.

A very good Post by 'bandie' - I imagine the location is very good, with many benefits to an instructor wishing to work in Spain (and a unique opportunity in so many ways).

The problem is that unless you are young and single or older (maybe with a pension to supplement your income) it will be difficult to manage if you are married (with a husband/wife who can't find employment of their own) or for a couple with children to support.

The salary may be adequate for some, and may be comparable with other commercial flight training schools, but as a stand alone package it appears to be poor for those instructors who may have other commitments and an inability to supplement their/their partner's income by other means.

[Capt Pit Bull]

First of all, Taxes are higher with no personal allowance.

Not true. When you start down there, there will be no allowances because you start on the Spanish equivalent of an emergency tax code, especially if you start in the second half of the year because you won't be there long enough that year to be a Spanish resident for tax purposes. But that all comes out in the wash when you submit your tax returns.

The real thing to be careful about is the Spanish wealth tax, which could be a pain for someone later in life who has substantial assets. This tax was put in place for a couple of years but I think it was taken away again at the start of this year once they realised they had caused a massive wealth exodus of expats.

Rents are higher than the UK, with an additional 1 months rent equivalent payable in advance to the rental agent, plus 1 month deposit and 1 month rent. Properties are smaller than in the UK, so if you're after something of equal standard then you pay more!

Property size is highly variable, depends on where you want to live and what section of the market you are in. But overall I would have to say this statement is resoundingly not true.

For example, I have a 5 bed house in the UK with a rental value of about £1200 per month. I found a large range of suitable properties within 20 minutes of the airport, in the range of 600 to 800 euros per month. The top end of these typically had the following, shared with a cluster of other houses in a secure perimeter: swimming pool, tennis court, children's play area. Many were next door to the golf course, 10 minutes away from a water park and 15-20 mins from the beaches.

It's a renters market down there.

It really boils down to where you are in life. If you have no children, young children or your children have left the nest it is very suitable. However, if you have senior school aged children then the schooling is an issue for obvious reasons.

The other major factor is if you have a partner, and what they do professionally. Employment prospects are vey poor, especially for non natives.

[Stn120]

I think Capt Pit Bull may have a vested interest in FTE

CPB, your statement that wasaloadie's comments about rents is resoundingly untrue is itself not entirely true. I think you maybe attempting a bit of damage limitation.

I have a friend who lives in southern Spain and has been over to Jerez for me to do some research. A 5 bed house in the area for 600-800 Euro's? Dream On! either that or it is sub-standard. You will get a medium size 4 bed house for 6-800 Euro's but the area it is in (University) is less than desirable. A small 3 bed in a more desirable area will cost minimum 600 Euro's. He looked at the south of Jerez (golf area) and said the rental prices were on average 25% higher.

It is also true that the agent will take 1 months rent as his fee, normally paid by the vendor in the UK.

Standard of furnishings are not what you would expect in the UK either.

He is ex military (with a pension paid into a UK account) and the Spanish tax his earnings at a higher rate then he would be taxed in the UK. He as many people do, enjoys Spain for the climate. Due to high Spanish unemployment, his wife cannot get a job over there as they will not employ anyone if the position can be filled by a Spanish national who has the same skills. He does not have dependent children but tells me that Spanish main stream education is of a good standard, however children are expected to communicate in Spanish. Otherwise it would be best for them to go to an international school which will have to be paid for privately.

All in All, I think despite the climate, I think am equally as well off back here in the UK and do not consider the move to Jerez to be worth my while considering the small relocation payment on offer (which has to be paid back if you stay less than 2 years), all the additional aggravation of getting established there, not being able to relocate until probation has ended (uncertainty of being kept on), Wife giving up her job with only a small prospect of getting a job there and the current rumours of salary cuts (at the moment FI's I hear, but how long before GI's?). Consequently, I shall not be progressing with my application with FTE until I foresee the situation improving and shall stay where I am for now. My friend was looking at a position as a FI with FTE but has pulled the plug on that for now as he does not consider a move within Spain to be viable at the moment.

[SpannerInTheWerks]

100% INCREASE in pay MAY attract the right calibre staff;

Pay REDUCTION will jeopardise the operation;

The airline clients expect the best training for their selected cadets - and pay for it.

The marginal increase in cost per cadet of attracting flight instructors must be relatively small in comparison to the overall cost of training for both FTE Jerez and the client airline - particularly where a large degree of instruction is in the simulator with ex-airline sim instructors who, I understand, are not affected by this issue

Little expense is spared during airline type rating and line training. Why at the important ab initio stage?

[Reverserbucket]

his wife cannot get a job over there as they will not employ anyone if the position can be filled by a Spanish national who has the same skills.

How is this permitted under EU law? I work in the UK and am surrounded by Spanish colleagues as I was whilst working with a Portuguese organisation recently.

The airline clients expect the best training for their selected cadets - and pay for it.

I'm not convinced they do to be honest; irrespective of who pays for it, it's all about the bottom line.

Little expense is spared during airline type rating and line training. Why at the important ab initio stage?

Is the ab-initio stage seen as important these days? I've seen some particularly weak individuals who were nursed through type training by their 'sponsoring' company for various reasons. In these cases the training providers were encouraged to do their best to 'help' these candidates achieve a licence so that the TRTO could bring them up to speed later.

Of course, for each of these cases there were a large number of highly competent, capable and motivated individuals who achieved success through sheer effort and determination.

[SpannerInTheWerks]

Is the ab-initio stage seen as important these days?

Below is a comment made in connection with the AF447 accident:

Despite multiple stall warnings, including one that lasted continuously for 54 seconds, neither of the copilots acknowledged them nor the appearance of stall buffet.

As we all know, the essence of flying training is a series of building blocks of knowledge and experience - one exercise practised and mastered before progression to the next.

Power + Attitude = Performance

Ex 10 - Recognition of the stall - buffet etc ...

All basic stuff.

I'm not saying, in this over simplistic view, that the AF447 accident would have necessarily been prevented, but basic flying skills were in question.

Is the ab-initio stage seen as important these days?

I agree, it probably isn't to the extent it should be with the whole of modular commercial flight training becoming a 'sausage factory' of cadets trained through organisations with an eye, as you say, on the bottom line.

However, the cost is sometimes incalculable.

Edit:

Interesting comment from another Thread entitled: 'Flight International "Pilots must go back to basics"'

Having owned flight schools and retired from the "heavy metal" sixteen years ago, and having flown both Boeing and Airbus products along with the latest corporate tin, the decline in basic piloting skills is disturbing to say the least, there are good reasons the great mechant ships masters train in little sail boats to obtain the knowledge in ship handling required when the "magic" fails. Of one thing Im sure, unless the industry comes up with a solution ,perfectly serviceable aircraft, on perfect flying days, will continue to crash into perfectly flat ground.

[Capt Pit Bull]

Stn120

CPB, your statement that wasaloadie's comments about rents is resoundingly untrue is itself not entirely true. I think you maybe attempting a bit of damage limitation.

I have a friend who lives in southern Spain and has been over to Jerez for me to do some research. A 5 bed house in the area for 600-800 Euro's? Dream On! either that or it is sub-standard. You will get a medium size 4 bed house for 6-800 Euro's but the area it is in (University) is less than desirable. A small 3 bed in a more desirable area will cost minimum 600 Euro's. He looked at the south of Jerez (golf area) and said the rental prices were on average 25% higher.

It is also true that the agent will take 1 months rent as his fee, normally paid by the vendor in the UK.

I could perhaps have been more precise with my quotes.

For clarification, I do not dispute the agents fee arrangement which is a bit cheeky IMHO! But the crux of the matter is the general price of rental property. Take a property in Jerez, convert its rental into pounds, search for the same on a UK rental website, and you'll be lucky to find anything comparable unless in a really run down area.

I could give some examples of mid range places we looked at, but tbh lets cut to the chase and look at the top end. We viewed several similar properties near the golf course at around the 800 euro mark. Admittedly, only 4 beds, but fitted out basements are common, so far superior to our uk property in terms of floor area for non bedroom living space; enough room for an office and a home cinema. Plus the pool. Plus in a secure gated area. Plus a tennis court. 800 euros, that's me, in the property, talking face to face with the Agent. Not 'a mate did some looking around'. But even if it was 1000 eu, say 900 sterling, try and rent the equivalent anywhere in the UK!

The simple truth is, as I originally stated, it is a renter's market down there. Spanish property websites are pretty poor, and the English level of the Agents is very poor, but once you cut behind that there are some great places to live at very reasonable prices.

There are serious issues to be considered in relocating to Spain (as I mentioned taxation, spousal employment and schooling) but the rental market is not one of them IMHO.

These are general statements about Spain based on my experiences down there and would apply to anyone thinking of relocating for any reason. Thus I'm somewhat bemused by your post title and insinuation.

Cpb

[SpannerInTheWerks]

Capt Pit Bull

I agree with you - €700 - €800 is correct for reasonable rental property (excluding utilities etc).

The problem is that on the salary offered for a new instructor it will be difficult to survive unless you have additional income.

Even with the tax advantages of integrating the rental cost with salary leaves scant free income to pay for those necessities of life and to enjoy a 'professional' standard of living, car and the like. The figures simply don't add up.

Back to my original comments - it's a job for a single, young instructor or for a semi-retired airline pilot with a pension to rely on.

For those in the middle, difficult - for those with a family nigh impossible.

[Mach1.1]

FTE

I used to work at FTE but I am better now, so I feel qualified to update some of you on both FTE and life in Spain.


First FTE. There is an currently on-going "consultation" between the flying instructors and senior management about a proposed pay cut to be imposed and salary to be performance related. The management have so far pretty well rejected all the proposals put forward by the instructors and seem hell bent on forcing a "take it or leave it" solution. Those who choose not to accept the terms will be made redundant with a 20 day severance pay. The pay cuts and revised terms are due to the management's perception that the instructors are not working hard enough. The fact that quite often the brand new aircraft are unserviceable, that there are far too many students as a result of managements refusal to listen to the advice of those managers who knew about flying training, that the weather is not always as good as you would like to think in Spain, that there are often delays in getting the aircraft refuelled and, as if that were not enough, that flight training takes place in a part of the world with the world's most inefficient and lazy ATC environment is not accepted by the management who insist on blaming the instructors. Needless to say, morale is at rock bottom and is not helped by the fact that the flight management team by and large are ineffective.


Spain. Living there is not necessarily the panacea that some would lie to believe. In some respects the cost of living is cheaper than in the UK but that is outweighed by the fact that you pay tax on ALL your income - there is no tax-free allowance like there is in the UK. The days when it was possible to offset the rent and car leasing against tax are now over. In addition there is the spectre of having to declare all overseas income (Form 720, penalty of 10000 euros for not doing so or for a wrong declaration) with the very real possibility of the Spanish Inland Revenue making a claim on UK income/investments/property irrespective of whether or not you have already paid tax on it in the UK has already driven many expats out of the country.


The summer weather can be oppressively hot and unless you enjoy flying an un-airconditioned aircraft in temperatures in the mid to high 30s summer is not that much fun. Again, unless you can get by without seeing rain for four or five months of the year summer has its drawbacks.


The Spanish themselves are nocturnal and noisy and genetically engineered to be totally selfish. Most restaurants don't even bother to open till around 2100 so there is not much point in planning to go out for an early meal unless you like MacDonalds or Burger King.


Initially I enjoyed my time at Jerez but these days the quality of life, both at work and at home, plus the financial "rewards" make it a place to think very carefully about before signing any dotted lines.

[SpannerInTheWerks]

bose-x:

1.

I will probably try and catch up for a beer tonight or tomorrow with one of my Instructors who jumped ship and found the grass very wilted and brown to see what the latest scoop is.

and ... ? (I hope you haven't been 'gagged');

2.

Is your flight school still looking for a FI + IRI + CRI ?

If so, is this due to an absolute shortage of suitably qualified instructors, or are you finding issues similar to those allegedly being experienced by FTEJerez?

[chrisbl]

The problem with ATC (Seville Approach) and their reluctance to handle more than 1 IFR training flight at a time is very frustrating especially at an airfield that has more training traffic than CAT.


Going to Spain also depends on who you are what stage you are in your life and career(s) and your personal motivations. It will suit some, it will not suit everyone. Jobs tend to have common terms and conditions and they either work for you or they don't.

[Mach1.1]

B61, Yes I am referring to the DA42s. They are brand new so have not yet reached an age whereby engine and gearbox problems raise their ugly heads. Moreover, they have the new engines so are unlikely to suffer the same problems as the Thielert ones did. However, the savings in fuel costs are, as you said, far outweighed by the cost of getting them refueled (30 Euros per aircraft each time plus the cost of the fuel) plus the need to refuel them after nearly every flight.


The DA 42 is a nice aircraft to fly but has far too many limitations and, in some ways is a victim of its own fuel efficiency. Were you to get airborne at FTE at max AUW you would have to fly for nearly 2.5 hours to get down to max landing weight. This means limiting the fuel uplift hence the need to top up after most flights. The C of G is a long way forward which has its own limitations, especially in icing conditions. With the deicing fluid tank full the C of G moves a long way forward (well in excess of the max permitted in the vast majority of cases). However, when flying in known or forecast icing conditions, the maximum permitted forward C of G moves a fair bit to the rear!!! De-icing fluid is not cheap and could well push the operating cost up in winter in addition to the cost of fluid used in the summer months just to keep the system primed.


The Senecas are expensive to run but they do at least offer the flexibility of being able to get airborne with full fuel and three on board. With the DA42 limitations it is almost impossible to have more than two people on board.

[mad_jock]

Sounds like they would be better moving back to Prestwick.

[pablo]

I don't know what the actual situation is in this regard, but I doubt very much AENA will grant an authorisation to a small company to have their own tank of fuel, let alone allow a small fuel truck or a towable tank wander around the airport.

"Spanish practice"
Funny and not funny at the same time.

[S-Works]

This is a lack of communication when it comes to fuel. If you call out the fuel truck they charge €30 to come out.

We however leave a tag of the prop asking for fuel whenever it is passing and for this there is no charge.

Whilst I realise that FTE are an airline training school, they may also do better to try and be a bit more flexible and realise they are just operating spam cans not airliners.

They are making a rod for their backs with the treatment of instructors, a mass exodus is coming and it's going to cripple them.

Spain is a good place for single Instructors who can afford to live on the bread line. It is not a family place and the Spanish are shooting themselves in the foot trying to raise cash from the expats.

I would not work out their were it not for the fact that my time is split between teaching and line flying and I am on the payroll in the UK.

[Mach1.1]

bose-x I think I know who you work for when you are in Spain. The 30 Euros is a call out fee,however, it is charged per aircraft, not per call out. My understanding is that in order to be allowed to own and operate a refueling truck it is necessary to have an AOC. In FTE's case it would be complicated by the need to have two vehicles - one for Avgas and the other for Jet A1.

[S-Works]

The 30 Euros is a call out fee,however, it is charged per aircraft, not per call out. My understanding is that in order to be allowed to own and operate a refueling truck it is necessary to have an AOC. In FTE's case it would be complicated by the need to have two vehicles - one for Avgas and the other for Jet A1.

I know its per aircraft, hence the reason that we leave the refuel tag on the prop. Whenever the fueler is passing, he sees the tag and fills the aircraft. It is rare for us to ever need to call out the fueler to the piston aircraft. Saves a fortune in callout fees. If FTE were smart they could reduce the bill by adopting the same system.

When I need the Dornier filling with Jet A1 then I call them out unless I happen to be stood on the pan when he is passing from filling one of the 42's. But on a couple of tons of fuel €30 gets lost in the bill!! We do however have the same tag for it which I use if I have more time for refuel.

It is not an AOC that is needed for the fuel truck it is however an airside operators certificate for a fuel truck that is needed. You are right there is no chance that any of the based operators would be allowed there own installation. The Spanish are congenitally lazy but they are not stupid.

[Give me strength]

bose X


The only reason the refueller passes your aircraft is that he is on way to FTE !!


But that is not the major problem for FTE at present, I suspect.


Too little resource to get task done brought about by heavy handed senior management , probably out weights tardiness of refueller.