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Flying Instructors & Examiners A place for instructors to communicate with one another because some of them get a bit tired of the attitude that instructing is the lowest form of aviation, as seems to prevail on some of the other forums!


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Old 26th Dec 2012, 17:32   #1 (permalink)
 
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Question Loggable??

Hello there,

I would like to clear the following query,

Are all the hours flown under the FAA rules as a Certified Flight Instructor log gable under the EASA rules?

I have an Easa Part-FCL FI(A).

Thanks
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Old 26th Dec 2012, 17:41   #2 (permalink)
 
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Can you come up with any reason as to why they would not be?
FAA is ICAO same as EASA so no reason why flight time would not be counted.
How do you log your hours as a FI now?
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Old 26th Dec 2012, 18:10   #3 (permalink)
 
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Smile

heh, I can' really think of any particular reason why FAA flight time would not be counted under an EASA Part-FCL license but I want to have a reliable source to quote it.

And that is why I am asking this question here in hope to receive an answer from someone who have done this or who's actually doing it right now.
Uncertainty arose since EASA rules came into effect. I want to confirm that hours flown in a non JAR / EASA aircraft are good to log with other hours flown in JAR/EASA aircrafts.

I guess there is no problem logging hours on none EASA reg aircraft. I believe they all count as long as you log them according to the EASA rules.

B2N2 Currently I have only an EASA Part FCL License with an FI(A) rating.
I don't have any FI(A) hours logged yet as I have just obtained it.....

Thanks a lot for your information!!
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Old 26th Dec 2012, 18:57   #4 (permalink)
 
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You're welcome.
If you have a large logbook with some empty columns I would suggest you log "EASA" Instruction given seperate from "FAA" instruction given.
If you have any questions at a later stage feel free to send a PM
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Old 26th Dec 2012, 19:32   #5 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
I want to confirm that hours flown in a non JAR / EASA aircraft are good to log with other hours flown in JAR/EASA aircrafts.
Perhaps you should look at the definition of an EASA aircraft. Forget JAR it doesn't exist any more!

Quote:
An EASA aircraft can be defined as an aircraft that, if registered in an EU State, would be required to have an EASA Certificate of Airworthiness or Permit to Fly in order to fly legally. It is not valid to assume that any aircraft that has a permit to fly is a non-EASA aircraft. The EASA/non-EASA status of an individual aircraft registered in the UK can be verified by checking whether it has an EASA airworthiness certificate (CofA or Permit) or a UK national certificate.
So, if it would be an EASA aircraft if it was in Europe, then hours flown in it must count towards EASA experience requirements. What is less clear is if hours are flown in an aircraft that would not be subject to EASA control.

Last edited by Whopity; 26th Dec 2012 at 19:33.
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Old 26th Dec 2012, 20:05   #6 (permalink)
 
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Hours

Whopity thanks a lot for your post.
I am fully aware that JAR is replaced by EASA. I opted to mention it in my post for the sake of those who are really not aware of the change-over that aviation in Europe had gone through, hence JAR/EASA. I should from now on, omit the JAR-words in my posts....

Quote:
It is not valid to assume that any aircraft that has a permit to fly is a non-EASA aircraft.
OK so what if I am flying an N-reg aircraft (NO EASA airworthiness certificate (CofA or Permit) in any of the EASA-approved country, would that be log-gable?
More then that, are the hours log-gable in my EASA logbook to log hours flown on a non-EASA aircraft and country?

Could you please let me know the source from where you get your quote?

Thanks for your help!!
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Old 26th Dec 2012, 21:56   #7 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
B2N2 Currently I have only an EASA Part FCL License with an FI(A) rating.
I don't have any FI(A) hours logged yet as I have just obtained it.....
As you have a brand new EASA FI Rating you are restricted to only instructing for an EASA License whilst being supervised by an EASA ATO.
Quote:
FCL.910.FI FI Restricted privileges
(a) An FI shall have his/her privileges limited to conducting flight instruction under the supervision of an FI for the same category of aircraft nominated by the ATO for this purpose, in the following cases:
Log the hours flown on your FAA License and Log the hours as CFI but make sure you do not rely on these (or solo sign offs) to un-restrict your
EASA FI Rating - I suggest you note in remarks column whether any instructional flight was for FAA or EASA.

For Instructor renewal EASA simply states 50 hours of instruction during validity period - implies instructing for an EASA License/Rating but doesn't actually state it.
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Old 27th Dec 2012, 08:28   #8 (permalink)
 
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Exclamation

Hello Level Attitude, thanks a lot for your information.

I agree with all what you have quoted just here! I confirmed the Restricted Privileges in CAP804 under the FCL.910.FI.
Regarding the EASA FI Renewal, FCL.940.FI states this out of 2 other requirements.

Agreed!

From what I can understand I will be able to log hours flown on my other ICAO license in my logbook together with the EASA and previously JAR hours, annotating whether any instructional flight was for FAA, EASA or any other Authority.

Though these hours do not count to un-restrict the limitations in EASA FCL.910.FI from my restricted FI(A) ... ???
In that case that would count for, only to remove the restriction/limitations on the used ICAO license but not the EASA ones....???
Correct?

CAP 804 doesn't really explain how it goes when logging hours on non-EASA aircrafts and whether they are loggable and accountable towards removing any EASA restrictions.

Maybe I should look at this ....
Quote:
Article 62(5) of the ANO renders these certificates valid with the same privileges on non-EASA aircraft.
Thanks a lot for your help ....
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Old 27th Dec 2012, 08:56   #9 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Could you please let me know the source from where you get your quote?
The CAA Website.

Quote:
OK so what if I am flying an N-reg aircraft (NO EASA airworthiness certificate (CofA or Permit) in any of the EASA-approved country
The question is would that aircraft qualify for the issue of an EASA C of A or Permit? If the answer is Yes, then it is an EASA aircraft.

The UK CAA has indicated that for example, hours flown in a UK Aircraft, non EASA i.e. Annex II aircraft, will be countable for revalidation purposes of a Class rating. There is no indication of this in the EASA documentation neither is there anything to say that hours in an aircraft registered in another state would be acceptable towards revalidation if it did not qualify as an EASA aircraft.

All hours are logable, so long as the details are clear then any administration will accept what it wants and ignore what it does not consider acceptable.

Quote:
implies instructing for an EASA License/Rating but doesn't actually state it.
I think you need to look a little deeper on this one. FCL 900 specifically limits the privileges of an Instructor Certificate to the giving of instruction for licences issued in accordance with the EASA regulation. Therefore; one might assume that any instruction that does not fall within these privileges would not qualify. That of course opens up another bag of worms, as hours counted training for National licences would not qualify either. A National Authority could issue a difference in relation to their own aircraft.

Sadly, we have a collection of rules produced by incompetent rule makers, voted in by incompetent politicians and now administered by a bunch of equally incompetent administrators. All of this will attract contempt from the industry leading to a negative impact on safety.
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Old 28th Dec 2012, 22:14   #10 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
I think you need to look a little deeper on this one. FCL 900 specifically limits the
privileges of an Instructor Certificate to the giving of instruction for licences issued
in accordance with the EASA regulation.
I read this as meaning an EASA FI Rating only allows instruction to be given
for EASA Licences - ie it does not allow someone to instruct for an
FAA License.

Instruction does, however, occur which would not lead to any EASA
License or Rating issue.
eg:
- Someone who is legally allowed to fly, but hasn't done so for over a year
and wants some brush up training.
- A Flying School/Club requiring a Check Out with one of their Instructors
prior to renting an aircraft.
- A Cross-Channel check.

The conundrum is that someone Instructing FAA students also falls in to
above category - but I'm not sure EASA would accept 50 hours of FAA
instruction to count for EASA FI Renewal - theorecticaly that could allow
someone who has done 50 hours of teaching "Circling around a point" (not
even in EASA syllabus) to renew an EASA instructor rating.

Last edited by Level Attitude; 28th Dec 2012 at 22:15.
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Old 29th Dec 2012, 09:56   #11 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
- but I'm not sure EASA would accept 50 hours of FAA
instruction to count for EASA FI Renewal
As they accept 50 hours of MP instruction as a TRI towards revalidating an FI, even if the candidate does not have a valid SE rating, then anything is possible.
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Old 30th Dec 2012, 18:55   #12 (permalink)
 
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The best solution is to do what we (as a school) did when JAR came in. Submit the question in writing to the CAA, and get an answer in writing.

If you don't like the answer, resubmit the question to a different person. Repeat untill you get an answer you like!
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