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Flying Instructors & Examiners A place for instructors to communicate with one another because some of them get a bit tired of the attitude that instructing is the lowest form of aviation, as seems to prevail on some of the other forums!


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Old 20th Dec 2012, 18:20   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
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FE course with different EASA Authority

Good day all.

I am wondering if any of you tried to do a FE course with a different authority from the one of your license.

Any problem with the process?

Difficulties in having the FE transcript on your license?

Any trouble in being able to perform checking?

thxs & rgrds
REMAX11
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Old 20th Dec 2012, 20:26   #2 (permalink)
 
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I'm fairly sure that you would have to get the approval of your Licencing authority to attend a standardisation course that is approved by a foreign authority.

Other than that if they are happy they will issue you the examiner certificate. The only difficulty is with conducting tests an checks on pilots whose licence is issued by a state different from that on your examiner certificate. You would then have to satisfy the briefing and approval sections of part FCL, 10 something I think.

Email your authority and ask.
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Old 21st Dec 2012, 07:37   #3 (permalink)
 
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It's no problem at all.
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Old 15th Oct 2014, 17:00   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2003
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Hallo gents,

I am resuscitating this thread because I would like to know your thoughts on what might be the best option in order to gain a:

-FE ppl cpl,
-CRE se, me
-IRE

Ideally, I would like it to do them all together.

Care to point out at the right Authority or ATOs?

Any traps I should look out?

Thank you very much.
azdriver
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Old 15th Oct 2014, 17:11   #5 (permalink)
 
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They are generally viewed as cumulative ratings. You have to demonstrate experience before advancing and adding ratings. The examiner approval has to be done with the state that holds your licence. You can't shop around to get the approval.

I would suggest you contact the state that issues your licence and ask them what they require of you in order to become an examiner.
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Old 15th Oct 2014, 17:28   #6 (permalink)
 
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Sorry bose-x, I do not understand.

FCL are pretty clear about it, there are no limitations regarding previous examiner experience in order to get one or more FE certificates.

So I do not see where the problem might be with my intentions. Maybe I am too naive?

I believe I could do standardization wherever I am pleased in EASAland regardless of my issuing authority.

I believe also, my assessment may be done by a Senior FE regardless of my and his issuing authority.

In Italy is no problem, in Germany also, unfortunately I will be CAA UK in few months, so I am really interested to know what I should expect.

Thank you and regards
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Old 15th Oct 2014, 17:48   #7 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
I believe I could do standardization wherever I am pleased in EASAland regardless of my issuing authority.
Not according to Regulation 1178:
Quote:
FCL.1015 Examiner standardisation
(a) Applicants for an examiner certificate shall undertake a standardisation course provided by the competent authority or by an ATO and approved by the competent authority.
Competent Authority
Quote:
FCL.001 Competent authority
For the purpose of this Part, the competent authority shall be an authority designated by the Member State to whom a person applies for the issue of pilot licences or associated ratings or certificates.
So its your licence issuing Authority who will approve any Examiner Course you attend. That's not to say it cannot be in another State, but they must approve it.
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Old 15th Oct 2014, 18:55   #8 (permalink)
 
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...and

Quote:
I believe also, my assessment may be done by a Senior FE regardless of my and his issuing authority.
Quote:
FCL.1020 Examiners assessment of competence
Applicants for an Examiner Certificate shall demonstrate their competence to an inspector from the competent authority or a senior examiner specifically authorised to do so by the competent authority responsible for the Examiner's Certificate
...and

Quote:
FCL are pretty clear about it, there are no limitations regarding previous examiner experience in order to get one or more FE certificates.
Quote:
FCL.1010 Prerequisites for examiners
Applicants for an Examiner Certificate shall demonstrate:
(a) relevant knowledge, background and appropriate experience related to the privileges of an examiner;
ifitaint...
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Old 15th Oct 2014, 19:10   #9 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Quote:
FCL are pretty clear about it, there are no limitations regarding previous examiner experience in order to get one or more FE certificates.
Quote:
FCL.1010 Prerequisites for examiners
Applicants for an Examiner Certificate shall demonstrate:
(a) relevant knowledge, background and appropriate experience related to the privileges of an examiner;
To be fair to the OP I think he got this one correct.
If someone has massive experience of Instructing for PPL, CPL, SEP, MEP and IR then they meet the background requirements to apply for Examiner privileges for all of these. To me FCL.1010 does not mean someone has to start as a PPL FE and only once they have gained Examining experience can they apply to extend their Examining privileges.
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Old 15th Oct 2014, 19:30   #10 (permalink)
 
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Looking at FCL.1005 there doesn't even seem to be any requirement to have taught CPL to examine it!
Quote:
FCL.1005.FE FE Privileges and conditions
(2) skill tests for the issue of the CPL(A) and skill tests and proficiency checks for the associated single-pilot class and type ratings, except for single-pilot high performance complex aeroplanes, provided that the examiner has completed at least 2 000 hours of flight time as a pilot on aeroplanes or TMGs, including at least 250 hours of flight instruction;
You would need 200 to teach for a CPL! Most of the 2000 hours could have been on TMGs!
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Old 15th Oct 2014, 19:48   #11 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Looking at FCL.1005 there doesn't even seem to be any requirement to have taught CPL to examine it!
No requirement to have ever actually taught it, but must be qualified to teach it (FCL.1000)

Quote:
You would need 200 to teach for a CPL!
You need a minimum of 500 hours flight time to instruct for the CPL (FCL.905.FI (d))
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Old 15th Oct 2014, 20:22   #12 (permalink)
 
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I see a lot of interesting points, but unfortunately no one seems to be able to suggest any ATOs or CAA where to take the standardization courses. If you have any ideas or suggestions, I would be very grateful.

Now to the points brought forward:

first and foremost

Once an EASA Authority gives the green to whatever course, It will be almost impossible to NOT give the green from an Authority that did not provide the first authorization UNLESS, they can prove there is some sort of misconduct in the approval or in the course/ATO approved.

Even in these cases, they would need, in order to force their decision, to take the authorizing authority to court or to some sort of arbitration if they stand by their opinions or, at last, change the original Authority approval.

If they do not do that, they risk to be taken to court by the applicant.

So for:
FCL.1015 Examiner standardisation
(a) Applicants for an examiner certificate shall undertake a standardisation course provided by the competent authority or by an ATO and approved by the competent authority

The applicant need to make a formal, written inquiry to use whatever already approved (even by others EASA CAA) ATOs/CAA standardization courses to the competent Authority.

now, to the easy parts:

FCL.1010 Prerequisites for examiners
Applicants for an Examiner Certificate shall demonstrate:
(a) relevant knowledge, background and appropriate experience related to the privileges of an examiner;

Appropriate experience is specified in the pre requisites of every rating or certificate sought. Not a problem and also nothing to be interpreted. If a CAA reads something different into it, that is a mere opinion. Good luck standing by it.


FCL.1020 Examiners assessment of competence
Applicants for an Examiner Certificate shall demonstrate their competence to an inspector from the competent authority or a senior examiner specifically authorised to do so by the competent authority responsible for the Examiner's Certificate

see above on the "first and foremost" part. It does applies to whom might or might not be approved by the competent authority.

Nevertheless, something I understood by all the brits friends in here is that, the CAA UK seems to be a little bit too much uptight...

regards
azdriver
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Old 15th Oct 2014, 20:39   #13 (permalink)
 
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Dude, as you are clearly a barrack room lawyer then go ahead and do it and let us know how you got on.

All of us who have responsed to you have been through the loop and know the reality against the letter of the regulation.

That's just me speaking as a FE CRE and TRE, ie holding all the approvals you are seeking and I can assure you they do not come in one sitting......
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Old 15th Oct 2014, 21:46   #14 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
I see a lot of interesting points, but unfortunately no one seems to be able to suggest any ATOs or CAA where to take the standardization courses. If you have any ideas or suggestions, I would be very grateful.
Flying Training|Instructor|Examiner|Formation|CPL|Aerobatics
flightexaminertraining.co.uk |

Full list of UK providers:
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/2014100...ment31V117.pdf

More information:

https://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/sarg_l...ust%202013.pdf

ifitaint...
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Old 15th Oct 2014, 22:05   #15 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
You need a minimum of 500 hours flight time to instruct for the CPL (FCL.905.FI (d))
including at least 200 hours of flight instruction; which is exactly what I said!
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Old 16th Oct 2014, 00:46   #16 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
examiner has completed at least 2 000 hours of flight time
Quote:
including at least 250 hours of flight instruction
Quote:
Most of the 2000 hours could have been on TMGs
Quote:
You would need 200 to teach for a CPL!
leading to
Quote:
including at least 200 hours of flight instruction; which is exactly what I said!
It may be what you meant, but it is hardly exactly what you said.

I cannot find the reference to minimum instructional experience to teach for a CPL. Could someone kindly give me a pointer?
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Old 16th Oct 2014, 06:44   #17 (permalink)
 
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FCL.905.FI

Quote:
The privileges of an FI are to conduct flight instruction for the issue, revalidation or renewal of:

(d) a CPL in the appropriate aircraft category, provided that the FI has completed at least 500 hours of flight time as a pilot on that aircraft category, including at least 200 hours of flight instruction;
...or if you prefer CAP 804: Section 4, Part J, Subpart 1, page 1.

ifitaint...
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Old 17th Oct 2014, 00:25   #18 (permalink)
 
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ifitaint
Quote:
FCL.905.FI
Thanks for that. Exactly the same paragraph that I referenced yet I didn't see it.
Sometimes: EASA = Word Blindness
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