Only one or both hands on controls during take-off

[Capt. Spock]

Hello!

Any opinions about having one or both hands on controls during take-off on a typical training aircraft equipped with control column (C172). Take-off being in this case the phase from lift off until reaching 1000 feet.

I have recently come across students who have been taught to take-off having both of their hands on controls during take-off. Reasoning behind this being able to counter any turbulence or gusts during take-off and on heavier aircraft (light twin) to counter the control forces.

On the other hand I would say single hand on controls gives better feel on aircraft, encourages correct trimming and disencourages overcontrolling. With an added benefit of having your right hand free for the throttle should it be neccesary to close it.

Any other opinions or deeper insight?

Thank you already in advance!

[bingofuel]

One hand on the control column or stick and the other on the throttle until above 1000ft, apart from whilst raising flap or any other required inout below 1000ft agl

[Dan the weegie]

One hand on the blimmin throttle!!!

I sat next to someone on a checkout in 172 on departure and at 200feet the throttle started to creep back and the speed was getting preciously close to the stall by 300 feet, we weren't climbing and he didn't notice.

I even prompted him by saying "I wonder why we aren't climbing and your speed is so slow"?

Eventually I had to point at the throttle, so he pushed it back in and put both hands on the control stick, the throttle worked it's way back out and at 700 feet we were at the light buffet. I repeated the thing about the throttle and he pushed it back in. So we ended up flying well over an hour of circuits as I had to explain to this PPL that if you're going slowly there is something wrong but you must lower the nose if you feel the buffet.

I teach and have always taught that below 1000ft the hand stays on the throttle, it's not essential but it's a damn good habit to be in and the above story highlights that. If I had not been in the aircraft that guy would have stalled his 172 from 300ft and had a very unpleasant accident.

Hand on the blimmin throttle!!

[Big Pistons Forever]

One hand on the stick and one hand on the throttle, Always.

[mad_jock]

I can tell you were that has come from.

Its sodding airline ops pish. Which is of course hand off the levers at V1.

Find out which school they have been to. I am willing to bet they have a group of zero to hero and then christ I don't have a job better become an instructor, types teaching there.

Your lucky they didn't turn up with "here's a checklist that I have been given which is meant to be better than the POH one" They will then bring out this "thing" which which if you do it all will mean that your 20mins from strapping in to departure.

[Capt. Spock]

"With right hand free for the throttle" I meant to say that it also says on the throttle.

This is pretty much what I was expecting to hear. Is there anyone who could defend keeping both hands on the controls?

[mad_jock]

There will be some instructors who work for certain schools who will think its a good idea. But they have been asymalated into the magenta line borg and really don't care about the damage they are doing to the light aircraft flying standards.

They will also think its a good idea adding half the gust to the POH approach speed, adding another 5 knts because the sun is up so therefore the air is more unstable, adding another 5 because its feels a bit slow and then a final 10 for mother.

[Dan the weegie]

If you're flying in conditions so poor that the stick is likely to leave your hand then the conditions are probably too poor to fly a 172

[mad_jock]

Either that or your utterly ****e at trimming.

[RTN11]

I would always teach to keep the hand on the throttle. During any phase of flight if the spare hand isn't doing anything else it should be on a throttle.

I once flew with a very experienced RAF instructor, and he commented that above 1000' my hand wasn't on the throttle. He said that during his training, if he wasn't holding the throttle for an extended period and his hand was just idle, the instructor would simply cut the throttle. This would keep happening until he had built the reflex to keep the hand on the throttle.

I have also had the case in a 172 where after take off, having forgotten to tighten the throttle friction, the throttle started to come out. Rather disconcerting to have a sudden loss of power shortly after take off, and that was the only lesson I needed to keep my hand on the throttle!

[Big Pistons Forever]

Originally Posted by RTN11

I would always teach to keep the hand on the throttle. During any phase of flight if the spare hand isn't doing anything else it should be on a throttle.

Personally I think that is overkill. The hand should be on throttle during takeoff to make sure it doesn't creep back and also if the engine fails when you are on the ground during the takeoff or in the initial climb right after takeoff it is vital that in the event of a total engine failure the throttle be retarded to idle.

However once in cruise climb or level in cruise flight, and cruise power has been set proper throttle tension adjustment should avoid the possibilty of it creeping back and even if it did it should not be a big deal to simply reset the desired power.

[3 Point]

Hey Jock,

Of course airlie ops prcedures are "pish" if aplied to light aircraft but, hands off at V1 is perfectly proper in an aeroplane with multiple engines and a specified V1.

In a light aircraft keep the hand on the bloody throtle during take off and landing (ecept if trimming or operating flaps, gear etc)!

3 Point

[Exascot]

Na, in Greece, one hand for the coffee the other for the mobile phone and the cigarette in mouth can look after itself, just trim it nose up

[Genghis the Engineer]

Hand on the throttle low level in anything but a flexwing, where the hand throttle should be firmly closed, both hands on the bar, and power on the foot throttle.

But. In a 172, a closing throttle will cause pitch down and sink. To get close to the stall, the pilot needs to be pulling pretty hard as well.

G

[Cows getting bigger]

As above. I particularly like the line about the 'magenta line borg'. How true.

[Piper.Classique]

Is there anyone who could defend keeping both hands on the controls?

Below about 1000 feet, I doubt it. In the cruise at a sensible height, why not?

[bookworm]

The hand should be on throttle during takeoff to make sure it doesn't creep back and also if the engine fails when you are on the ground during the takeoff or in the initial climb right after takeoff it is vital that in the event of a total engine failure the throttle be retarded to idle.

There's another failure mode that protects against, as noted here.

Power lever migration
Tests were carried out, both on the ground and in flight, to examine power lever migration with the friction selected fully off. Take-off power of 2,230 ft lbs was set and 2,000 propeller rpm (governed) was selected. When the pilot removed his right hand from both power levers on the ground, they migrated aft initially very quickly to 1,000 ft lbs and then more slowly with the torque falling to 400 ft lbs.
...
Conclusion
Whilst the CVR does not provide any comments by the pilot as to the problems he was experiencing, spectral analysis of the CVR recording indicates that a significant difference in propeller rpm occurred at rotation when the pilot would normally have removed his right hand from the power levers. There was no evidence of a malfunction in either engine or the propeller control systems thus it is probable that migration of a power lever(s) occurred due to insufficient friction being set on the power lever friction control. The fiction control had been slackened during recent maintenance and it was possible that it was not adjusted sufficiently by the pilot during his checks prior to takeoff.

(I've always wanted a "fiction control" for my engines -- something to triple the power perhaps ).

[hvogt]

My flight school must have invented the airline ops pish mad_jock mentioned. We had an incapacitation call at 40 kt and a "500" call in climbs and descends, but we were always taught to keep one hand at the throttles during take-offs, approaches and practice manoeuvres.

[Pilot.Lyons]

I was taught to always fly one hand on yoke.... Right hand on throttle during take off to 1000 ft and for landings

In fact.. If i was to use both hands i think it would feel very very odd and uncomfortable.

I have flown in very strong winds above the specified limits and still managed with one hand on yoke and one on throttle... To be honest i wouldnt want my right hand any where else in those conditions

[Piper.Classique]

Bit of thread drift, I know, but how many aircraft have only a left hand throttle, or only a right hand throttle (for the left seat)? And how many students have a problem flying with the "other" hand?
Assuming side by side seating here.