Sad story about a high and mighty check airman

[Tipsy Barossa]

Met up with a former Alteon gentleman recently. Talked at length about the initial good old days and the challenges of dealing with pilots of all ethnic background and different levels of experience. Brought up this subject as I guessed a few Alteon guys were somehow insinuated to have tendencies alluded to on this thread.

Well he intimated that that they were indeed a couple who are closet green eyed monsters through and through. He mentioned one particular guy who was awfully jealous that a third world chap was made chief of the A330 checker group and did his utmost to disparage the poor chap at every turn. And that the A330 wasn't even his fleet! Then when a ex Honduran guy was made head of his fleet's checkers the hidden knives were all over him...the poor chap lasted less than 4 months! The strange thing was this particular goes all out to come across as a docile lamb who wouldn't hurt a fly and would always " reject " the offer to head the fleet's group of instructors but HE WOULD GO ALL OUT TO KNOCK DOWN ANYBODY WHO HE " judge " as inferior to him being made the chief. This piece of work would be a great specimen for a great psychoanalytical study!

Hopefully some do gooders will pass on this thread for his reading pleasure. As some hobos who walked around got it right, repent the end is nigh!

[SpaceNeedle]

No chicken sh*t. Heard about this piece of work some years ago at BFI. Can never fathom the mentality of such people.

[totempole]

This piece of work would be a great specimen for a great psychoanalytical study!

The shrink may gone bonkers too!

Actually it is not too difficult to fathom such behavior. It is largely due to repressed sense of inadequacy and lack of self worth. Most of them have previous failures they themselves suffered and they then imposed failing grades on others to feel that they were actually not that bad when they themselves failed!

[Jehovah Elohim]

This thread got to me through several emails and some of those smart arse email senders thought it was very relevant to me!

Well, I had been a hard nosed ass kicking check airman in another life. I had been tough and I minced no words during my debriefings. However I do not deliberately knock someone down for no reason. Going through my notes, I had never ever failed someone due to one particular poor item if he/she had demonstrated good performance overall, unless it was something resulting iin a crash or severe damage. I would then give a poor grade with a recommendation for further enhancement training during the next recurrent proficiency training.

There was a few occasions whereby I did amend the failing grade like the poster Mr gerago did. It wasn't too difficult a task if one had the trust, credibility and stature that the company and regulatory body respect. I had no compunction whatsoever in undoing my mistakes when it was fully justified to do so.

Will I make a deathbed confession? Not likely. I sincerely believe I had corrected those mistakes I had made unless there is evidence to show otherwise. I hope this will put an end to those do gooders who emailed me to save me from a death bed confession.

[Calvin Hops]

Wow, you ain't a skygod but your user name is INTIMIDATING!

[Chuck Canuck]

Tipsy, would that be the canuck wannabe " ian killinghog " in scottish? Seems like his stents haven't given way yet!

[Archie Archerfield]

There was a few occasions whereby I did amend the failing grade like the poster Mr gerago did. It wasn't too difficult a task if one had the trust, credibility and stature that the company and regulatory body respect. I had no compunction whatsoever in undoing my mistakes when it was fully justified to do so.

Well, well, well...so your stature was such that the company and the CAA would acquiesce to your request that the failing grade you awarded be amended. Good on you and I am sure you think that makes you feel good. This kind of sound rich but it is better late than never in correcting your mistake.

However, bear in mind that flying especially flying in command has a lot to do with confidence. A pilot's confidence is often badly damaged, if not destroyed by failing grades especially when done maliciously. I have seen friends whose confidence plummeted drastically on account of arsey checkers like you; hence my advice is that checkers bear that in mind before they embark on their jehovah moments.

[potteroomore]

However, bear in mind that flying especially flying in command has a lot to do with confidence. A pilot's confidence is often badly damaged, if not destroyed by failing grades especially when done maliciously. I have seen friends whose confidence plummeted drastically on account of arsey checkers like you; hence my advice is that checkers bear that in mind before they embark on their jehovah moments.

So true, AA. Got a mate who had just a bad day, not a disatrous sim check at all ( I spoke to the checker as well as the f/o ) but the anal checker deemed it fit to fail the guy because " he expected more, not just acceptable standards. " The poor bloke ( who already had some other stuff bothering him leading to the seemingly bad day ) was shattered and he was never the same for a long long time. It was only when he moved to another airline that he fully recovered his full confidence, becoming a superb trainer and checker.

[Namor]

So true, AA. Got a mate who had just a bad day, not a disatrous sim check at all ( I spoke to the checker as well as the f/o ) but the anal checker deemed it fit to fail the guy because " he expected more, not just acceptable standards. " The poor bloke ( who already had some other stuff bothering him leading to the seemingly bad day ) was shattered and he was never the same for a long long time. It was only when he moved to another airline that he fully recovered his full confidence, becoming a superb trainer and checker.

Some years ago, a colleague was failed because he allegedly botched max crosswind landings. He did not fully remove the crab during a B777 sim check and the resulting T-7 " twisting shaking thingy " was deemed a bad landing. When he protested that such a fail grade was grossly unfair that would affect his career, the best the checker could come up with was, I quote " I have been failed thre times before and I am now a checker, no big deal! I will arrange your recheck ". I am no psychoanalyst but isn't this some kind of psychopathic behavior? Like, say, a psychopathic abuser who now abuse women because he was badly treated by girls in high school?

[Al Goreng]

Some years ago, a colleague was failed because he allegedly botched max crosswind landings. He did not fully remove the crab during a B777 sim check and the resulting T-7 " twisting shaking thingy " was deemed a bad landing

Most experienced B777 TREs are aware that the aircraft is very shaky when there is residual crab or drift. In fact during one of my line training flights, I made such a crosswind landing and it seemed so bad that I convinced the instructor to log it, just in case. Well, the QAR report that came later indicated that it was a non event! Are you sure that sim checker was suitably B777 qualified?

[totempole]

Are you sure that sim checker was suitably B777 qualified?

AlGoreng, I suspect he was alluding to some Alteon simulator checkers who were ex-B757 and really believed the T-7 to be a supped up 757/767. These blokes have never physically flown a triple wheeled bogie B777 before and they think the sim is 100% accurate. Poor dimwits but they make lives very difficult for others with their anal retentive attitudes that they know best because they qualified as checkers in the sweat box.

[Toowoomba Taipan]

Sympathy for baba's ex mentor as seeing him at his deathbed one will certainly pity his condition and his regrets. We will all have our regrets but it is hard to deal with those once we are aware of our less than noble actions against those we had wielded some power over.

I know personally of a few of such characters, and I am sure they will certainly wince and grimace should they ever have the good fortune of reading this thread.

[500N]

Babablackship

It is hard talking to him as you want him t be happy. I would suggest visiting him again, let him talk of the bad bits and then once that is all over, get the topic back on some good bits that you both remember. Take some photos, books, ? log book ? etc in but keep them hidden until the time is right t change the subject. The photos / books etc will then give him something to focus on, physically and mentally.
I also like onetracks suggestion of writing letters to the people.
Since it unlikely he will know where they are, offer to do some
searching and post them off to them, then post them to some
address where they might get returned to you, might not.

At least is his mind he has tried to correct a wrong.

[Shintaro Abe]

Somebody mentioned the way out by seppuku or harakiri as a way out. Sigh, that way of bushido is only honorable if there is no other way out. As babablackshiep's old instructor is still breathing, he has other honorable ways to make amends. He can write to the affected pilots' airline or the aviation authorities explaning his gross error...I am sure his signature and examiner licence number will be recognised.

He is still able to make amends...do something! Crying and confessing is good but really doing something about it will be precious, not only for himself but for the people he had wronged.

[polochristo]

AlGoreng, I suspect he was alluding to some Alteon simulator checkers who were ex-B757 and really believed the T-7 to be a supped up 757/767. These blokes have never physically flown a triple wheeled bogie B777 before and they think the sim is 100% accurate

I personally had the misfortune of getting one such idiot trying to teach the finer points of the Carnarsie VOR 13R approach at JFK! He had never ever experienced operating into KJFK let alone conducting the Carnarsie approach in his sorry looking B757 but had the haughtiness/skygodliness of criticizing our not fully aware of the physical landmarks along the approach course prior to the turn onto the final approach. And all based on the sim visuals! Good lord! I am no ace and in the sim( night scenario ), I was eyeballing the lead in lights, the runway lights, the threshold lights and the Vasis. I had no time for the high ways, hotels, race courses, etc. Because of the quarteing crosswinds he had given, I landed precisely albeit without fully decrabbing which led to the twisty shake of the T-7. I had an earful during the debrief..luckily he couldn't fail me because that approach was not in the check profile but he indicated he would if it was. I protested that if the landing was out of limits the sim would have recorded a crash ( this was before the upgrade to the sim; previously the sim would indicate a " crash " if the side Gs or vertical Gs was beyond limits ); he brushed it off as was " his " call. I would say he is a prime candidate for deathbed confession.

[jandakotcruiser]

Quote:
AlGoreng, I suspect he was alluding to some Alteon simulator checkers who were ex-B757 and really believed the T-7 to be a supped up 757/767. These blokes have never physically flown a triple wheeled bogie B777 before and they think the sim is 100% accurate

It amazes me how the regulatory bodies can allow someone not originally fully rated and never physically flown the aircraft to be made instructor and check airman. For newly launched aircraft type, it is the manufacturer's test pilots certifying the factory instructors and checkers before they are let loose to train and check the customers' pilots. Likewise the customer airlines' flight ops trainers must have physically flown the aircraft before they train and check their trainees. Modern day ZFT level six simulators are nice and dandy, but absolute duds in replicating actual aircraft handling. I had done initial line training with ZFT pilot trainees who display " zero feel " for the aircraft, flying around like robots chasing the magenta line!

[potteroomore]

In new aircraft types just launched I supposed it is common that the instructors/TRES would have minimum stick time on type before they are let loose to train the line pilots. I have just read the thread about the Boeing pilots delivering aircrafts and training pilots at their customer airlines.

However for an established training centre such as Boeing Training in Korea it is indeed a shame they allow ex B737/757 jockeys who have no stick time on the B777 to instruct or check.

[woodyspooney]

Many suns ago in the early 2000s when I was still in KAL, there were 2 AMPA pilots manning their B777 Check and Training...they were absolutely great trainers and checkers, truly competent and professional beyond reproach. They had thousands of hours training and checking pilots of Boeing customer airlines. They understood the difference in the handling characteristics and fidelity of various simulators world wide as well as the differences between simulators and actual aircrafts.

They left after Boeing set up Alteon bringing cheapie non type rated blokes who had no clue as to the actual B777 handling characteristics. Things went downhill and we had checkers tailoring their " failing quotas " to fit KAL's " proficiency training through fear " programme. Those unlucky enough to be picked or happened to have a slightly bad checked item would be failed no matter how well they had done overall. Of course they picked a few " problematic " Koreans ( non Air Force Academy alumni ) to be failed; but somewhere along that route, a couple of expats ( those who had embarrassed either KAL internal divisons or Alteon with their previous arguments ) would also be taught a lesson.

I am not sure how is it now with Alteon in KAL as I had left it a number of years ago. However I understand from former colleagues still holed up in SEL that there certainly isn't any change for the better. The concern here is money; non rated cheapies can be recruited for a song. Likewise Boeing AMPA pilots lose out to non rated pilots to ferry the B787s to QR and LAN.

[Mic Dundee]

KARMA?

Originally Posted by B2N2

THE DEFINITIONS:
1. Everything that you do has repercussions. It comes back to you one way or another.
2. You cannot escape the consequences of your actions. What you do comes back to you.
3. You will see the long-term effects of your actions.
4. KARMA - The total effect of a person's actions and conduct during the successive phases of the person's existence, regarded as determining the person's destiny, especially, in his next incarnation.
5. What goes around comes around.
6. Your actions all have consequences. Don't ever be fooled into thinking that your actions don't have consequences. Don't think you can get away with bad choices even if you don't seem to get caught...You reap what you sow.
Watch the way you live your life because you reap what you sow.

We sow in one season, we reap in another.

Sow a thought you reap an act. Sow an act, you reap a habit. Sow a habit, you reap a character. Sow a character, you reap a consequence.

What you have stated above is not biblical. If you quote the bible, please don't re-interpret it, unless you're a biblical scholar. Are you a biblical scholar? I think not. This was your opinion. You should rephrase your title from "THE DEFINITIONS" to "MY TAKE ON THINGS."

[Sargeant Snorkel]

Tipsy, would that be the canuck wannabe " ian killinghog " in scottish? Seems like his stents haven't given way yet!

This pommie canuck should long be put to pasture! Have never come across such fake and insincere piece of work. Teaches rubbish during his sim sessions.
People just get fooled by his fake niceness.