FAA Validation of a UK CAA JAA CPL
The only restriction is that you may not hold more than one JAA licence on the appropriate aircraft category (helicopter or aeroplane); there is no restriction on UK licences. I currently hold 4 separate European licences - a UK lifetime PPL(A), a UK ATPL(A), a UK ATPL(H) and a JAA ATPL(A). Perhaps I'll see if I can get a JAA CPL(H) issued and make it 5.....
Originally Posted by SoCal App
What of the validity of the hours logged by the individual himself as being PIC.
Alister - did you receive initial security awareness training in accordance with 49 CFR 1552?
... et dona ferentes.
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This is sailing very close to the wind and I reckon the consequences could be very serious for Alister and his career if the Feds investigated. What is your current immigration status? I only ask because I was almost deported from the USA once for "working illegally" 
So, to put this right, I'd suggest doing the FAA CPL/CFI and not instruct until you hold those certificates. At least then he will be legal.
It sort of p*sses me off though that JAA schools abroad use such tactics to train JAA students - and charge them much more than an FAA school would for FAA training. Perhaps it is time for the FAA to clamp down on them, and insist that the FI's must be dual rated?
Actually FTR I don't know why anyone goes to a JAA school in the US. The conversion process is pretty easy between FAA and JAA (if you need to convert), and you have the added benefit of holding 2 seperate licences.
So, to put this right, I'd suggest doing the FAA CPL/CFI and not instruct until you hold those certificates. At least then he will be legal.
It sort of p*sses me off though that JAA schools abroad use such tactics to train JAA students - and charge them much more than an FAA school would for FAA training. Perhaps it is time for the FAA to clamp down on them, and insist that the FI's must be dual rated?
Actually FTR I don't know why anyone goes to a JAA school in the US. The conversion process is pretty easy between FAA and JAA (if you need to convert), and you have the added benefit of holding 2 seperate licences.
The issue that many people are pointing out on this thread is the visa. From what I was informed by the school I was instructing at, an individual would need to be remunerated in order for this to be considered "work". This appears to be a grey area as although there was no payment some might argue accumulating flight time to be remuneration.
Of course the school didn't have a problem with it...They were getting gullible labour for free and more profits from the students' tuition.
Many other types of uncompensated activities also require visas. By your definition, the students you were teaching didn't need student visas either?
While I may be able to forgive your ignorance, I have a huge problem with the school. A school which is authorized to process visas by the immigration authorities have a huge responsibility to stay on the right side of the law. US immigration could come clamping down hard on a school which is proven to abuse the system and I hope they will. At the very least the school's authorization to process visas and accept international students could be revoked, and in turn wipe out their main source of business.
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I'm working as a European citizen in Florida as an instructor myself, however I do so with CFI/CFII/MEI (FAA) and a work permit per my Visa.
All the things mentioned in this topic, I find the most gray area (rather black area) is the working (even though you aren't getting paid) as a JAA instructor flying with students.
I'm pretty sure that you getting hours for flying as PIC with a students counts as a commercial operation, and if you're not doing it as flight instruction, you would need to do it under a commercial operators permit and hold a FAA CPL.
I agree that the 20hr requirement does not count, as you are not submiting anyone for a FAA part 61 practical test.
Also, as long as a FAA CFI is signing off the endorsements of the student for Pre-solo flight training etc, then there is no hour requirements there either.
The big no-no that I see, is what I'm pretty sure is considered work, in black and white by the FAA, from what you have told
All the things mentioned in this topic, I find the most gray area (rather black area) is the working (even though you aren't getting paid) as a JAA instructor flying with students.
I'm pretty sure that you getting hours for flying as PIC with a students counts as a commercial operation, and if you're not doing it as flight instruction, you would need to do it under a commercial operators permit and hold a FAA CPL.
I agree that the 20hr requirement does not count, as you are not submiting anyone for a FAA part 61 practical test.
Also, as long as a FAA CFI is signing off the endorsements of the student for Pre-solo flight training etc, then there is no hour requirements there either.
The big no-no that I see, is what I'm pretty sure is considered work, in black and white by the FAA, from what you have told
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I know Of an f.B.o in FloridA that teaches for JAA licences where the instructors are flying and getting paid for flying in N-reg aircraft with out holding an FAA CPL or even a CFI rating.
The JAA instructors, as far as I was told did have a B visa that allowed them to work in the USA.
A couple of FAA examiners felt that this is wrong however the FAA side of the operation was conducted as per the FAR's.
The JAA instructors, as far as I was told did have a B visa that allowed them to work in the USA.
A couple of FAA examiners felt that this is wrong however the FAA side of the operation was conducted as per the FAR's.
Last edited by Capt Loop; 8th Jan 2010 at 15:42. Reason: PS: I just noticed Alister worked for Ormond Beach Aviaition. Need I say anymore......................
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B visa doesn't allow one to work in the USA. It allows one to attend business meetings, work related courses and such like. I believe the J1 is the only one that allows flight instructors to work though I believe that some people interpret the M1 as allowing course related work to be carried out (i.e. a FI training for the ATP and being renumerated their expenses.
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I agree that under part 61 the 20 hour rule does not really apply, but can you imagine the scenario if a solo student was involved in an accident?
FAA would no doubt check student pilots training records and flying logbooks and ascertain that said student pilot had maybe received 1.0-2.0 hours with an authorised instructor. In addition to this the student has maybe ten hours of supernumerary flying experience with an FAA Private pilot. (The fact that this pilot is a JAA Instructor is irrrelevant to the FAA). As far as the feds are concerned said student would have been sent solo with 1-2 hours of instruction, and although there is no legal minimum, I'm sure it would be obvious to them that all the required content of part 61 could not possibly have been taught, practiced, and demonstrated in that time.
Now who would get the rap in this scenario? My guess is the CFI who signed the student pilot certificate and endorsed the flying logbook. The CFI does not 'have' to sign any endorsement, and in doing so pretty much absolves the flight schoool of any responsibility.
FAA would no doubt check student pilots training records and flying logbooks and ascertain that said student pilot had maybe received 1.0-2.0 hours with an authorised instructor. In addition to this the student has maybe ten hours of supernumerary flying experience with an FAA Private pilot. (The fact that this pilot is a JAA Instructor is irrrelevant to the FAA). As far as the feds are concerned said student would have been sent solo with 1-2 hours of instruction, and although there is no legal minimum, I'm sure it would be obvious to them that all the required content of part 61 could not possibly have been taught, practiced, and demonstrated in that time.
Now who would get the rap in this scenario? My guess is the CFI who signed the student pilot certificate and endorsed the flying logbook. The CFI does not 'have' to sign any endorsement, and in doing so pretty much absolves the flight schoool of any responsibility.
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Too add to the B visa debate :
There are JAA FIs at flight safety in Vero Beach, using B1 visas. However they DO NOT provide instruction as US Immigration were explicit in telling them that they could not instruct - only attend the meetings and sort of supervise the activities as they are only there for a about a month-two at a time.
Regarding the F1 - Immigration has even put in writing that if on an Approved course (has to be approved by an accredited authority) then CPT to build towards the ATP is how CPT would be used. OPT is always at the discretion of US Immigration even if the school recommends it.
What this all comes down to is certain schools lying to instructors who do not realise they are working illegally and it is actually the instructors responsibility to maintain status, not the schools. These schools thrive on the fact that no one ever reports them so they never have any repecussions.
It proves entirely that the whole US Immigration / TSA system is a complete sham and all for show.
Now isn't it about time a moderator seperated this thread into a different thread.
There are JAA FIs at flight safety in Vero Beach, using B1 visas. However they DO NOT provide instruction as US Immigration were explicit in telling them that they could not instruct - only attend the meetings and sort of supervise the activities as they are only there for a about a month-two at a time.
Regarding the F1 - Immigration has even put in writing that if on an Approved course (has to be approved by an accredited authority) then CPT to build towards the ATP is how CPT would be used. OPT is always at the discretion of US Immigration even if the school recommends it.
What this all comes down to is certain schools lying to instructors who do not realise they are working illegally and it is actually the instructors responsibility to maintain status, not the schools. These schools thrive on the fact that no one ever reports them so they never have any repecussions.
It proves entirely that the whole US Immigration / TSA system is a complete sham and all for show.
Now isn't it about time a moderator seperated this thread into a different thread.
