JAA PPL currency?
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JAA PPL currency?
Hi chaps,
just a quick question regarding currency for a JAA PPL, is the minimum requirement still 20 hours in 2 years? I did 25 hours hour building after passing my PPL in Florida, but it was on a student permit as obviously I did not get my PPL until I arrived home. Are theese hours valid, or do I have to do 20 before my 2 year point from passing my PPL? What are the ramifications if I do not complete 20 hours before my 2 year point,is it another skills test?
.... Any advice most welcome 
just a quick question regarding currency for a JAA PPL, is the minimum requirement still 20 hours in 2 years? I did 25 hours hour building after passing my PPL in Florida, but it was on a student permit as obviously I did not get my PPL until I arrived home. Are theese hours valid, or do I have to do 20 before my 2 year point from passing my PPL? What are the ramifications if I do not complete 20 hours before my 2 year point,is it another skills test?
.... Any advice most welcome
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A search would have found the numerous posts on this 
- AFAIK there never has been a 20 hour in 2 year requirement. What is needed is 12 hours in the year before expiry to include 6hrs P1 and a 1 hour flight with an instructor, it then needs signing off by an examiner before expiry. If this is not achieved it can be done by test.
- AFAIK there never has been a 20 hour in 2 year requirement. What is needed is 12 hours in the year before expiry to include 6hrs P1 and a 1 hour flight with an instructor, it then needs signing off by an examiner before expiry. If this is not achieved it can be done by test.
I did 25 hours hour building after passing my PPL in Florida, but it was on a student permit as obviously I did not get my PPL until I arrived home.
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Alternatively you could have just read LASORS section F class rating renewal and revalidation...available from www.caa.co.uk
ho hum.
and the PPL Initials Skills Test and the SEP Class Rating LPC/LST are not the same thing in case you are thinking you must redo the whole thing again. The later is about 1hr with the former more like 2.5hrs.
And whoppity is correct the hours wont count - as they wont have been done in the 12months preceeding expiry.
ho hum.
and the PPL Initials Skills Test and the SEP Class Rating LPC/LST are not the same thing in case you are thinking you must redo the whole thing again. The later is about 1hr with the former more like 2.5hrs.
And whoppity is correct the hours wont count - as they wont have been done in the 12months preceeding expiry.
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Jeez, the guy was only asking, and in fact got the answer he was looking for, among all the stone throwing. Give the guy a break, he just saved himself the joy of trawling through lasors, or re reading his law notes, by asking here someone who knows and who could give him a quick and, as it happens, accurate answer to a simple question.
I bet there are a few others who read and benefitted from the question being raised again too...
I bet there are a few others who read and benefitted from the question being raised again too...
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It was a jolly sight simpler before the days of the b**dy JAA!
What was it Ron Campbell said when asked if we should introduce a biennial flight revue as they do in the U.S.A.?
It was to the effect that there is no valid statistical evidence to show that U.S. PPL's have a better accident record than we do without the flight revue.
R.I.P. Ron, you must get fed up with turning in your grave!!
P.P.
What was it Ron Campbell said when asked if we should introduce a biennial flight revue as they do in the U.S.A.?
It was to the effect that there is no valid statistical evidence to show that U.S. PPL's have a better accident record than we do without the flight revue.
R.I.P. Ron, you must get fed up with turning in your grave!!
P.P.
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I find that quite offensive actually BEagle 
, What the hell has where I trained got to do with a simple question like this?? The fact that I have been away with my job in the falklands and to other desert s*it holes for the vast majority of the last year and a half means I have hardly had chance to fly at all, and apart from the fact that I asked a perfectly simple question that is only a tiny tiny tiny part of what I learnt 18 months ago is hardly a major failing in my training is it?? - and the main reason I asked is rarther than go and buy a £20 text book or drive to a suitable training school, I can simply ask the supposedly friendly and helpful people on here...... especially as in 18 months there may well have been a chage in the currency requirements 
...Wish I hadn't botherd now, and if you have any justification for the rarther uncalled for comment on me obtaining my PPL in Florida I would be delighted to hear it...... I have had 3 instructors in the UK, and I can say hand on heart the Instructor I had in the USA was excellent and set me very high standards....
The fact that It cost me half of what it would in the UK is just a bonus....
, What the hell has where I trained got to do with a simple question like this?? The fact that I have been away with my job in the falklands and to other desert s*it holes for the vast majority of the last year and a half means I have hardly had chance to fly at all, and apart from the fact that I asked a perfectly simple question that is only a tiny tiny tiny part of what I learnt 18 months ago is hardly a major failing in my training is it?? - and the main reason I asked is rarther than go and buy a £20 text book or drive to a suitable training school, I can simply ask the supposedly friendly and helpful people on here...... especially as in 18 months there may well have been a chage in the currency requirements ...Wish I hadn't botherd now, and if you have any justification for the rarther uncalled for comment on me obtaining my PPL in Florida I would be delighted to hear it...... I have had 3 instructors in the UK, and I can say hand on heart the Instructor I had in the USA was excellent and set me very high standards.... The fact that It cost me half of what it would in the UK is just a bonus....
No reflection on you, just a reflection on the standard of theoretical knowledge training you clearly received - or perhaps didn't. Specifically in Air Law and Operational Procedures.
It's not just a 'learn/dump' process to pass exams, you do NEED to retain much of the knowledge.
And why should people on here spoon-feed those who cannot be bothered to look things up in LASORS, which is completely FREE OF CHARGE to download?
It's not just a 'learn/dump' process to pass exams, you do NEED to retain much of the knowledge.
And why should people on here spoon-feed those who cannot be bothered to look things up in LASORS, which is completely FREE OF CHARGE to download?
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The problem 'these days' is that a significant number of people (well, those I've talked to at least) don't even learn the material in the first place.
Since the appearance on the market of 'The PPL Confuser', 'The IMC Confuser' and the numerous on-line Question Banks now floating about a lot of folks find it a lot easier and more convenient to simply learn the Q's and A's than spend hours in their already over-stretched lives studying subject material that they believe they are never going to need to use.
A lad sitting alongside me on the ATPL Brush-Up happily admitted that he had passed the first set of ATPL exams by using the on-line QB alone, as have many others.
Agree with it or not, it is what is happening and some of the fault must be apportioned to those that make statements (in these forums as well as anywhere else) along the lines of "the majority of it is unnecessary and you'll never need to use it. Just make sure you learn your TR material". If I had a pound for every time I've heard that! Student PPLs hear that as well as potential CPL / ATPLs and if that is the advice coming from 'the experts' well who can fault them for taking it?
Hopefully, our friend Kengineer-130 managed to find plenty of time in amongst the hours of inactivity (punctuated by relatively short episodes of excitement / panic) whilst sat on Fraggle Rock, the Sandpit or any other dusty, dry environments that Mr Bliar and our wonderful government has forced us into, to read up on his notes.
However, to chastise him for asking a simple question, however bone, is wrong and it forces me to point out that:
There are never any stupid questions, just stupid answers.
The question could have been answered by one simple response, not a tirade of put-downs.
Here we go Kengineer-130, have a read, free of charge, of Section F (pdf Pages 242 - 243)
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS_07.pdf
Also JAR FCL 1 (pdf Pages 93 - 94):
http://jaa.nl/publications/jars/607069.pdf
HTH
2close
Since the appearance on the market of 'The PPL Confuser', 'The IMC Confuser' and the numerous on-line Question Banks now floating about a lot of folks find it a lot easier and more convenient to simply learn the Q's and A's than spend hours in their already over-stretched lives studying subject material that they believe they are never going to need to use.
A lad sitting alongside me on the ATPL Brush-Up happily admitted that he had passed the first set of ATPL exams by using the on-line QB alone, as have many others.
Agree with it or not, it is what is happening and some of the fault must be apportioned to those that make statements (in these forums as well as anywhere else) along the lines of "the majority of it is unnecessary and you'll never need to use it. Just make sure you learn your TR material". If I had a pound for every time I've heard that! Student PPLs hear that as well as potential CPL / ATPLs and if that is the advice coming from 'the experts' well who can fault them for taking it?
Hopefully, our friend Kengineer-130 managed to find plenty of time in amongst the hours of inactivity (punctuated by relatively short episodes of excitement / panic) whilst sat on Fraggle Rock, the Sandpit or any other dusty, dry environments that Mr Bliar and our wonderful government has forced us into, to read up on his notes.
However, to chastise him for asking a simple question, however bone, is wrong and it forces me to point out that:
There are never any stupid questions, just stupid answers.
The question could have been answered by one simple response, not a tirade of put-downs.
Here we go Kengineer-130, have a read, free of charge, of Section F (pdf Pages 242 - 243)
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS_07.pdf
Also JAR FCL 1 (pdf Pages 93 - 94):
http://jaa.nl/publications/jars/607069.pdf
HTH
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The question could have been answered by one simple response, not a tirade of put-downs.
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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Most guys who pitch up at the FTO where I work require at least 5 hours instructional flying before even being considered ready to be signed off solo..... most require more before they themselves feel comfortable flying over here.
It is a simple fact: JAA PPL training in the USA does not prepare a pilot adequately enough to fly in the UK.
VFE.
It is a simple fact: JAA PPL training in the USA does not prepare a pilot adequately enough to fly in the UK.
VFE.
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Anything to do with Florida PPLs drives BEagle mad...
But surely the same argument applies in that, as there are good and bad JAA FIs there will be good and bad FAA FIs and similarly there will be some FAA FIs who are better than some JAA FIs and vice versa. Their respective outputs are surely going to vary.
I have done both FAA and JAA PPLs and personally I think the FAA Skills Test was more demanding than the JAA. More flying skills were tested, e.g. Short Field and Soft Field TO/LDGs and X-Wind Landings, the pre-flight planning was more demanding (although facilities were a far sight easier to access than in the UK at the time - saying that we in the UK have come on leaps and bounds over the past few years) and the oral examination was quite in depth (for PPL level). Of course, this may be the exception to the rule but I can only comment from personal experience.
I personally would never say that any pilot is going to be any better than any other just because he has undertaken a particular syllabus. Maybe some feel that the FAA syllabus is lacking but I remain to be convinced of that allegation - it seems to work for what it's designed to do. No, I think I will judge each person on their own demonstrated abilities.
I know of a JAA PPL who turned up in the USA to undertake a FAA CPL IR and his flying was atrocious, no, downright dangerous - I had the regrettable experience of riding in the back seat with him flying....just the once, which was enough for me but I was assured by others that what I witnessed was the norm not the exception.
As for EASA writing off overseas training, of course I don't know but I somehow doubt that will happen....well, I will be surprised if it does. There may be too many high profile interested parties (with extensive lobbying power) that may stand to lose considerable amounts of money if this was to happen........unless of course the cost of aviation in the EU was to reduce (and I'm not going to hold my breath on that one). In any case (and I stand to be educated here) what difference does a location make to learning primary flying skills?
Well, that's my head well and truly over the top of the parapet. Stand by for incoming..........
Just one small, insy winsy request.....adult discussion not abuse, please!!
EDIT - I do however agree with VFE that people who undertake the FAA syllabus aren't prepared for flying in the UK and that a certain amount familiarity and RT training is definitely required. I know that I did.
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to quote VFE "Most guys who pitch up at the FTO where I work require at least 5 hours instructional flying before even being considered ready to be signed off solo..... most require more before they themselves feel comfortable flying over here.
It is a simple fact: JAA PPL training in the USA does not prepare a pilot adequately enough to fly in the UK.
VFE."
Yep I totally agree, it is only common sense to aquaint yourself with the differences in airspace/ procedures and phraseology of european R/T, but IMHO the money you have saved actually learning just to FLY the aircraft , is paid off twice over by having to do a few hours brush-up back in blighty, and they then count as currency hours as well - Can never do too much training is what I say, always somthing new to learn 
....
I feel quite sad that all the people who achived thier PPL in Florida or whatever other place they did it all get tarred by the same brush, I had a number of lessons in the uk before I went to the USA, and I completed the JAA sylabus over there not the FAA one. With regards to the groundschool, I can remember most things, not at all learn and dump, but with any skill/ knowledge, it soon gets rusty if it is not used
, and that has nothing at all to do with where you trained, it is simple human nature, and to be honest the grounschool I recived out in the states was delivered by someone who was VERY passionate about his subjects, and always made sure we actualy learnt how AND why things get done they way they are , I can't imagine how difficult it would have been doing it learn and dump, yes ok the exams could have been passed, but what happens when it comes to applying the knowlege?? ...
All I can say is I can't wait to get some flying in, I drove home this morning at 5am, and the skys were gorgeous, I was dreaming about being up there
It is a simple fact: JAA PPL training in the USA does not prepare a pilot adequately enough to fly in the UK.
VFE."
Yep I totally agree, it is only common sense to aquaint yourself with the differences in airspace/ procedures and phraseology of european R/T, but IMHO the money you have saved actually learning just to FLY the aircraft , is paid off twice over by having to do a few hours brush-up back in blighty, and they then count as currency hours as well
- Can never do too much training is what I say, always somthing new to learn .... I feel quite sad that all the people who achived thier PPL in Florida or whatever other place they did it all get tarred by the same brush, I had a number of lessons in the uk before I went to the USA, and I completed the JAA sylabus over there not the FAA one. With regards to the groundschool, I can remember most things, not at all learn and dump, but with any skill/ knowledge, it soon gets rusty if it is not used
, and that has nothing at all to do with where you trained, it is simple human nature, and to be honest the grounschool I recived out in the states was delivered by someone who was VERY passionate about his subjects, and always made sure we actualy learnt how AND why things get done they way they are , I can't imagine how difficult it would have been doing it learn and dump, yes ok the exams could have been passed, but what happens when it comes to applying the knowlege?? ...All I can say is I can't wait to get some flying in, I drove home this morning at 5am, and the skys were gorgeous, I was dreaming about being up there
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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2close,
The quality of instruction is not the issue when it comes to learning in the States, it is the differnces in RT, airspace and other operational procedures that makes it an exercise in futility if your aim is to come back to the UK and fly straight away.
VFE.
The quality of instruction is not the issue when it comes to learning in the States, it is the differnces in RT, airspace and other operational procedures that makes it an exercise in futility if your aim is to come back to the UK and fly straight away.
VFE.