Test and Evaluation topic e.g. RAE,DERA and QinetiQ

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

Nope not the MET flight I think there C-130 (snoopy) is now at Marshalls of Cambridge now.I have a picture showing a Meteor 'undergoing further calibration at Farnborough' it's from the Metoer book I have got.The Metoer is positioned on what I can see to be a trolley and the Metoer is rolled over onto it so it's undercarriage is facing upwards.There is also a missile on a cable system which looks almost like it's having RVDM trails.I will try and scan it in with caption.

edit:
Caption-Meteor T MK7 WA662 undergoing further calibration at Farnborough having been modified on the underside to replicate the U Mk16.Randomes have not been fitted but aerials are visible.

[chevvron]

Meteor U16s were target drones used at RAE Lanbedr for ops in the Cardigan Bay ranges, so I dare say they were calibrating the radio control system. Sea Vixens were used later (mid 70s) and they were modified at Farnborough on contract to Flight Refuelling Ltd. so presumably the Meteors were too. Both types retained a cockpit for a human pilot. The FR test pilot used to come up from Tarrant Rushton to test fly the Vixens after they were modded, and on one occasion, was a bit enthusiastic getting into the cockpit and managed to bang his head on the metal hoop around the windscreen all but knocking himself out.

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

Yep they might of been , however the Metoer itself wasn't in the targeting colour scheme (yellow/red) but as you say they probaley calibrating for targeting use.The sea vixen is a smart aircraft unlucky for that pilot who knocked himself out.Changing the conversation again does anyone know what they used Aberporth airfeild as during RAE use I know they used the campus as a site to host RAE members ect.Of course Llanbedr was used for the Jindivik.I will try and scan the pictures in as they are interesting.

[chevvron]

There is a radar unit at Aberporth (originally 'Western Radar') which is used to track aircraft operating in the Cardigan Bay range and to provide a service for aircraft wishing to transit the danger area. The airfield was used by the RAE Transport Flight Devons to transport boffins and other personnel, the route was Farnborough - Aberporth - Llanbedr - West Freugh and return two or three days a week.
Aberporth also saw the occasional civil visitor, and AEF Chipmunks used it frequently for Air Cadet flying. On at least one occasion, a Hunter from Valley did a touch and go there, the pilot being amazed how short the runway is (about 900m or 3,000ft). A couple of the staff from Farnborough ATC used to do Aberporth Tower in rotation when the permanent guy took leave.

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

Interesting , there was I think a small radar station at the top of Cardigan bay which RAE members used to dread going to as It was very isolated and cold.Also there was a report (or found) that the target barges washed up on the beach.
Now I think Aberporth airfield is used for UAVS.It is now know as west Wales airport.Aberporth Airfield

[pianydd]

For those that are on a social networking site (beginning with 'f'), try searching within for Llanbedr Airfield Estates LLP. They have uploaded many photos, albeit of a recent supercar event they held there recently, also adding many archive photos of Meteor, Jindivik, Sea Vixen et al.

[chevvron]

The small radar unit 'at the top of Cardigan Bay' was presumably Llanbedr, which would launch a drone (Firefly/Meteor/Sea Vixen/Jindivik) then pass the ident to Aberporth Radar.
This airfield was considerably larger than Aberporth and I think the main runway was re-inforced as Jindiviks used to land on a skid, the undercarriage being jettisoned on takeoff.
Llanbedr also had a Precision Approach Radar and I believe every drone landing was 'talked down' using this.
I've often wondered if the occupants of the caravan site just south east of Llanbedr were aware of these unmanned aircraft activities; a set of Jindivik wheels would probably do quite a bit of damage to a caravan.

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

It would do a lot of damage to a house never mind a caravan. The radar station (sorry for long link) Qinetiq radar site on the Llyn penninsular , was at the north of the bay the link explains it in more detail.
Also I think Concorde may of even landed on the runway at Llanbedr


Some good pictures here:
Flickriver: Most interesting photos from Jindivik pool

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

#41 Here are those pictures might be on interest. Sorry about poor quality. From this book: http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct...YgA32QdjOb8sog

Caption-Meteor T MK7 WA662 undergoing further calibration at Farnborough having been modified on the underside to replicate the U Mk16.Randomes have not been fitted but aerials are visible.

[chevvron]

The T7 pic shows this was fitted with the extended nose cone of the U16s which if I remember correctly, were originally F8s. Just a surmise; maybe they modded it with U16 aerials to familiarise new pilots with the handling characteristics. Note the middle picture shows a Rushton towed target stowed overwing on the Meteor.
Not sure if the T7 in the third picture is the Llanbedr one or the Farnborough one; the Farnborough one crashed in '75. I don't think it's WA662.

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

Thanks again Chevvron , te 2nd picture down is actually the Marshall's of Cambridge trail meteor but in the picture it is at Farnborough.And I have a feeling that it is WA662 as it as a smallish randome at the rear which is present on other pictures of WA662.
Back to pressure trails I'm still very curious about it as the most famous one must be comet.However I'm more so interested in later tests this website has some decent pictures but its description is very scientific and not to digestible.THE EXPERIMENTAL APPROACH TO AIRCRAFT STRUCTURAL RESEARCH, THE FIFTEENTH WRIGHT BROTHERS LECTURE so if there is any info anyone knows about pressure trails.Also included this fantastic cross-section from the Eagle which I scanned in of course don't use the image anywhere else.

http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalog?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=2DT&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&q=eagle+annual%3B&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bp cl=35466521&biw=1920&bih=977&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=13019438720592363318&sa=X&ei=jreKULBf65DRBb28gMAK&ved= 0CCcQ8wIwAA

[FTE Pruner]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashleyaircraftfan
A&AEE no longer exists of course as it (I think) merged into or became DRA then DERA.
That's not precisely accurate. A&AEE never merged into or became part of DRA.

A&AEE (Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment)

became (briefly)

A&AEE (Aircraft & Armament Evaluation Establishment)

became (briefly)

DGT&E (Directorate General Test & Evaluation)

became

DTEO (Defence Test & Evaluation Organisation)

became

DERA (Defence Evaluation & Research Agency) - joining DRA etc

became

QinetiQ (losing what became DSTL)

will become...

You forgot "NEW DERA" from the list (between DERA and QQ). Schoolboy error!

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

You forgot "NEW DERA" from the list (between DERA and QQ). Schoolboy error!

SO many changes! cannot work out if your joking or not

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

Am I right in thinking that the building in the background was R.A.E structures?? and does anyone on here no much about it?

[chevvron]

The area you're looking at is where Qinetiq's Cody Site now stands.
Structures was originally meant for long term fatigue testing of a Concorde; there was one inside that tall square building. It was subjected to continual reversals of temperature via first being heated, then having chilled water circulated round it.
When this programme finally finished, the building was allocated as the National Space Centre but as far as I know was never used as such. It was demolished to make way for Cody Site in the late '90s/early noughties.

[Ashleyaircraftfan]

Thanks again I'm sure there is a picture in this thread http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...d-history.html of Concorde inside the building.And I persume the buildings are to do with Concorde it the facility as well.

And also researched more about Chobham. Well as said in #21+ Longcross test track (military vehicles and engineering establishment Chertsey) I came across a photo of Varsity T1 (WL679) undergoing FLIR trails at MVEE

[TheChitterneFlyer]

To re-build the RAE you would need Scientists, Engineers and Leaders. QQ could
offer Nest-Featherers, Project Managers, Accountants and possibly just a few of
those who formerly worked at the RAE. Unfortunately, working within QQ has
beaten the stuffing out of those former RAE folk.

Never a truer word was said! The (QinetiQ) announcement that redundancies were on the way; in order that this would make us a leaner, fitter, and more efficient machine, simply wasn't true. All it did was stir the good folk into searching for alternative aerospace employment i.e. Airbus Military; amongst others!

The Haddon-Cave report was a right and just document that highlighted the QinetiQ oversight of Nimrod airworthiness issues. Nonetheless, something had to be done to cull the methodology of the airworthiness chain; except that all we have subsequently done is increase "process"; which has, more or less, gone full circle i.e. the airworthiness chain has, once again, become complex and convoluted. Are we any safer? No. But we sure have built the "Mother of all Audit Trails" that will "nail" anyone who manages to crawl through the legislation minefield. Haddon-Cave wanted to simplify "process"... QinetiQ has totally missed the point!

[Pilotage]

Do you mean Met Research Flight? They were only a lodger unit ie not part of the RAE Experimental Flying Department due to Farnborough being the closest MOD airfield to the Central Forecasting Office at Bracknell (now moved to Exeter), and although the aircrew 'mixed' they were regular Lyneham crews rather than specialist aircrew who had been through ETPS or similar.
Another 'lodger' was IAM (Institute of Aviation Medicine) Flight which normally had two pilots, both qualified as doctors and both qualified jet instructors. A third was added shortly before they moved to Boscombe; he was a qualified test pilot not a doctor and before he was allocated to IAM Flight he was an EFD pilot on fast jet types with whom I had the pleasure of a Hunter flight one day

MRF had, prior to 1981 when they became single type on WX208, numerous types, and a large team of civilian scientists and engineers, but I agree that they didn't use TPs.

Aerodynamics flight however, were RAE and did do quite a lot towards basic understanding of aircraft aerodynamics, as well as stability and control.

P

[BossEyed]

Originally Posted by FTE Pruner

You forgot "NEW DERA" from the list (between DERA and QQ). Schoolboy error!

So I did! Some of the mind-bleach must have worked, then.

Originally Posted by TheChitterneFlyer

The Haddon-Cave report was a right and just document that highlighted the QinetiQ oversight of Nimrod airworthiness issues.

i.e. highlighted that a contract for £7,500/year cannot enable oversight.

[TheChitterneFlyer]

i.e. highlighted that a contract for £7,500/year cannot enable oversight.

Notwithstanding that QinetiQ didn't have a clue about contractual obligations... I'm not surprised that someone from "airworthiness" signed-off a £7500 contract with such aplomb!